Nvidia GTX 460m Benchmarks!!!

That is exactly why I didn't get a G73 with a 5870. I really like the design of the G73 and I can't wait to see how it performs with the nvidia card.

 

No1 reported GSOD yet with the new ASUS vBIOS.

 

Yep so far no complaints with the latest vbios. Is working for everyone with proper PowerPlay, OverDrive and working with all standard released AMD monthly drivers. Users reporting no negatives running on official 10.8.

So there doesn't seem to be any need for anyone to be bashing a G73 equipped with a HD5870M.

 

What?

10char

 

*Instert Xzibit meme here*

 

No opinion necessary. USB 3.0 is more expensive.

 

GSODing is over.. stop bashing the G73 anymore.. at least we don't pay $3000 for a flashy high school laptop

 

yes, by ~20$ And for the record, 99% of this forum is about opinions, lol.
You can take my words as a pure weapons grade balognium, but when the time comes and the prices are revealed - I'll quote my post again

 

GTX 460M: Asus has the G73JW and G53JW, Toshiba has the Qosmio X500, Eurocom has a bunch of models coming.

 

It appears the 460m is ~5% slower in DX9/10 games but can be 3%+ faster when played with a game with tesselation. The Dirt2 benchmark where the 460m achieved 40ish FPS compared to the 5870s 31ish is the lone oddball. Dirt2 does use DX11 and tesselation but the graphical boost from it is much more than other DX11 games like BC2. If the 460m is losing in the DX9/10 categories(where both it and the HD5870 perform well enough) but getting slight gains in tesselated games then it appears the 460m is on equal footing with the 5870m.

Blah why couldn't it have been crappier so my choice between a JH and JW would be easier

 

not to mention that now the ATI/GSOD driver issue has been fixed the "Nvidia drivers=win!" argument is kind of moot. But then again any new drivers from Nvidia for the 460m could potentially give it a slight graphical boost. What kind of improvement has the 5870 seen from new drivers since release?

 

Not to mention that the green one is a newcomer and will have to go the same route of issues and fixes
Also, it's kinda funny that the newly released card is barely able to stay on par with a 1 year old tech, hehe.
We don't know the OC'ing potential of the newcomer and the OC'ing stability (heck, the stability in general, at stock clocks is still a mystery)
And, as I mentioned, the 460M will cost more than the 5870 - 350$ per the top tier card is a tough mark to beat.

 

I think the assumption that the 460m would have as crippling of a problem as GSOD would be a stretch. It may have a few bugs here and there but I think Asus has learned its lesson.

And if it does have a serious error like that then we have Gary here to fix it

 

Besides, the GSOD was a feature exclusive to Asus, any other of the fine 460m equipped notebooks will have nothing to worry about.

 

yeah, that was squarely on Asus

I just want to see some more benchmarks for the 460m before I go and buy my new notebook, I think I would be very content with either the 5870m or the 460m.

 

You'll start seeing G53JW and G73JW benchmarks in a few weeks. The other notebooks, such as the Qosmio, I'm not so sure about, but I would bet they appear within a month.

 

Pricing and performance of GTX 460M and HD5870 is almost the same, this is NVIDIA's "brand preference exercise" to re-capture market from ATi. Any extra performance gain is coming from extra VRAM 1.5GB DDR5 vs 1GB for ATi HD5870.

Eurocom Announces Laptops Using GTX 470M and GTX 460M - Softpedia

 

*Sigh* ....no more comments...

 

lol total fail on his part

 

They should know better than to make a statement like that about the VRAM, especially on these forums.

 

Haven't you heard? We all game at 2560x1600, with 16xAA.

 

Is he trying to insinuate people DON'T play at 2560x1600 with 16AA? Poor plebs...

 

Wow, just found out, Asus reveals WIDI/SIBeam will not be a feature available in both G73JW and G53JW

*Sigh*

 

Umm...where did you hear that?

Asus Integrates SiBEAM WirelessHD Into G73JW And G53 Notebooks - HotHardware

 

This is old news, they wont
it got replaced with WiCast WiCast: Wireless 1080p Broadcast for Much Less

 

Nowhere does that say it will be in the G73jw replacing the WIDI.

 

This is amazing, how do you know what the GTX 460M will cost? Have you travelled into the future? A desktop GTX 460 1GB can be had right now for $199 or less. What makes you think the GTX 460M will cost so much more?

Also those notebookcheck benchmarks are almost worthless. They are using extremely early drivers, and they benchmarked the card on a pre-release Qosmio. With better drivers performance will improve significantly. ATI's drivers are a lot more mature, so there is very little additional performance that ATI can achieve with new drivers. Fermi however is a brand new architecture for Nvidia, and there is lots of performance potential with new drivers.

 

the 460m price was "found" by configuring different machines with same upgrades and leaving only the GPU as difference. that's how we got an idea of how much it would cost.

Second, Notebookcheck is even more worthless because they tend to use 1024x768 resolution for several benches, and the drivers for the fermi GPUs are not premature. 460m is a new release, but the overall fermi architecture and decent drivers are not. Hell, Desktop Fermi are enjoying awesome performance boosts already. Performance increase is not going to magically appear now, it will just gradually come up in small increments.

And finally, ATi has stated that they will release on Cat 11 I think, drivers that will allow the HD5000 series to use their stream processors for DX performance increases like Tessalation, possibly incrementing the already decent performance it got.

So, Right now, the HD5870m costs about the same, to less, than the 460m. It has higher performance on most DX9 an DX11 titles, and only ing DX11 is the 460m actually better. By a small margin, and most of the time, DX11 won-t even be playable on either card.

With driver updates, you can be sure both HD5870 (with the posibility of a decent increase in DX11 performance) and 460m performance will increase too. Hopefully the 460m can be decently oveclcoked (though I am not sure) and we can enjoy more performance.

 

The 460M differs from the GTX 460 desktop card and differs greatly from the GTX 480. Fermi is a new architecture for Nvidia yes. The 480 has been out for a while, but Nvidia still does not have a full 400/400M lineup in the market yet so yes it's still a new architecture. Nvidia has stated that Fermi is modular, and besides they made significant changes to the GTX 460 and 460M compared to the 480. So yes, drivers will make a difference. Nvidia only added GTX 460 driver support in July, with the latest 258.xx driver release.

How can you say new drivers will only boost Fermi performance a little bit while at the same time saying that new Catalyst drivers will provide a nice boost for ATI's older cards? That is hypocritical and very biased. Nvidia claims the 400M cards will offer an average 40% more performance than 300M cards. So far the early tests of the 460M card shows that in benchmarks it doesn't come anywhere close to 40% more performance than a 350M or 360M. That means that Nvidia is hinting there will be a performance boost with future drivers.

Only the 480/470 so far has had a nice driver boost, and the 480 is not even designed/optimized for consumer/gaming use! The 480 architecture is more suited towards professional applications, as the 480 (GF100) core is used in the Tesla professional cards. The 460 and 460M architecture is not, it is designed for the consumer market only.

As I said, the 460/460M (GF104/GF106) architecture significantly differs from the 480 (GF100 architecture). The 460/460M has less FP processing power, more execution units per streaming processor, more shader units, and more texture units. The 460/460M also completely lack ECC which the 480 fully utilizes. The 460/460M use superscalar execution while the 480 does not, and the 460/460M have different warp schedulers and dispatch units than the 480/470.

Because the 460/460M use superscalar execution as opposed to the thread-level parallelism used by the 480/470, this requires new code and instructions for the GF104 compiler in the Nvidia drivers to achieve optimal performance out of the 460 and 460M.

So yes, there WILL be a performance boost from new Nvidia drivers for both the GTX 460 and 460M (along with all other new 400/400M series products) due to the simple fact driver/compiler code will have to change in order to make full use of the superscalar architecture of the new Fermi cards.

 

Nvidia does not need to have a full lineup in the market to know it's own architecture, that is already available in the form of expensive, super powerful cards. The significant changes that came with GTX460 did not come out of nothing. Nvidia designed it to cater to the gamer, and it is working on that since not too long ago. 460m is already based on that newer architecture that is on the market, and being quite succesful. The changes in architecture are not major in the sense that they became a new completely architecture, they are optimizing and at the same time betting on the changes to help reduce costs and gather good performance.

You seem awfully biased towards nvidia, quite contrary to my point. I do not stand just for one company, I support both and I have used both my whole life. Drivers WILL increase performance, but not in one week. It takes time. The first major boost already happened, and that boost won't repeat itself every single time. Nvidia always say things like that on their page. from 9800m GTX to 260m GTX they claimed up to 50% performance increase. Wanna know how they get such numbers? by using specific benches at very high settings that tend to be close to slideshows in which an older card gets 8fps and the new one gets 12fps. Wooping amazing performance increase.

Now, the new fermi architecture was not designed just for graphic/gaming power, and the new cuda cores are not as powerful for graphic/gaming tasks as the G92 cores. Additionally, the new 460m has less memory bandwidth than previous GTX260/280m cards. You won't see much of a performance increase out of thin air, and if you really expect over 40% performance in everything, prepare yourself to be disappointed.

As for the ATi increasing performance with driver updates, it comes from a more logical reasoning. The current cards are not using the stream processors for tessalation, which is why it is getting murdered by fermi in that area. The drivers they want to release are supposed to allow the shaders to perform tessalation and thus increase performance on that regard. The boost I mean is only related to tessalation and DX11. On DX9 and DX10 it will hardly matter as it is. Those specific drivers might be the only real % upgrade we will see for the entire HD5000 family, and they will only be in very little applications/games. If nvidia announced a reason for low performance, along with a way to fix it, then sure you can expect a big increase. I never said that drivers wouldn-t increase performance, just that it's a gradual event. And both companies are on that boat. I would be suprised if by the end of the current mobile GPU era, the 460m overcomes the HD5870.

I also think that there are not enough schedulers on the new 460m, if the 445m is any indication. I don't expect the 460m to get that much higher performance out of 285m at all. Not with limited bandwidth and so few cores.

Now, if the GTX460 were to be the 480m, we would be talking about something awesome, but 460m is nowhere near as powerful as GTX460.

 

You're obviously coming from the desktop GPU segment. Situation in notebooks is different. GPU's do cost significantly more here. 480M is ~940$, 470M ~500-530$ and 460M is about 400-420$ (MR 5870 is ~330$).
For some pricing references please visit R&J Technology, Clevo Barebone Notebook kits, Laptop and desktop system builder
They have one of the lowest prices so far.

Also, the entire "drivers will increase performance" talk is mostly a speculation. People buying their systems today will have to play their games on the current drivers, so it makes sense to run the benchmarks with the current drivers. When will the new drivers appear and what the increase will be - is mostly a wild guessing. The performance does tend to increase but it's hard to predict the %.

Personally, I'm not looking at a sheer performance/price, since many other factors come to play here - drivers, TDP, cooling, stability, latency,etc. For example, Nvidia cards have only 1 temp sensor (core) and while it can show a nice 70C in Furmark you will be totally oblivious to the fact that memory chips are ~100C at that very moment. AMD provides 3 different sensors (Shader, Core, MEM/IO) and it can be very handy in notebooks since they have a limited cooling potential. And so on and so forth. There's more to it than just a performance. When my 280M's in SLI suffered from latency due to drivers immaturity (lasted for almost a year and only the latest drivers fixed the issue) I didn't care that the FPS was 5% more than with 4870's, I needed a working system and not a pile of junk unable to play videos without stuttering.

 

Well so far it looks like the 460m is taking hints from the desktop version, it really does appear to run cooler: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/515430-asus-g73jw-discussion-thread-7.html

Even if NV only displays 1 sensor (likely the core, the coolest one), it's hovering around 80c while being furmark'd. There are a couple vantage runs on pg 6 of above thread as well, and some funny pictures of how enormous the card itself is on pg 9

 

If you know anything about architectures and drivers then you know that the 460 and 460M DO NOT CURRENTLY benefit from a big performance boost in Nvidia's latest drivers. Nvidia hasn't optimized its driver compiler yet to take full advantage of the superscalar design of the 460M and the GTX 460. The 465, 470 and 480 see a nicer boost due to them being based on the GF100 core and the drivers are more optimized for that core. On the other hand the GF100 was not designed primarily for consumer use and those cards run very hot plus they are expensive so they are pointless.

Will Nvidia get a guaranteed % increase in performance on the GF104/GF106/GF108 cores? It won't be guaranteed, but there will be SOME sort of performance increase once they optimize their compilers to take advantage of the GF104. The most current Nvidia drivers are not fully utilizing the GTX 460 or 460M designs.

Obviously driver performance boosts take time, that just supports what I said, that in the future the GTX 460 and 460M will both be faster than what we currently see.

No, I wouldn't expect a performance increase of 40% in everything. Nvidia claims 40% average increase, and that is what I stated. I would expect some games in some settings to have only 0-5% performance increase, while others could have a 60-80% performance increase.

While the CUDA cores may not be as powerful as the G92 cores for gaming, that doesn't matter since the 460M has more cores overall than the GTX 260/280M.

The design of the GTX 460 and 460M means that performance is more compiler-dependent than usual and performance also varies more than with the GF100 cores (GTX 480, GTX 470, GTX 465, 480M).

That 480M comes with 2GB of memory though, not exactly an equal comparison.

Also the website you posted lists the 5870 at $350.

The drivers talk is not speculation if you know what a compiler does and if you know that the GF104/GF106/GF108 cores are using superscalar designs compared to the GF100 thread-level parallelism design.

If we should only talk about current drivers, using that logic why don't we go back about 2 months ago when Starcraft 2 came out. Using your "current drivers" logic, ATI cards were unable to use AA, while Nvidia cards were able to. So back in July, at that current time, ATI owners were out of luck for AA in Starcraft 2, meaning they couldn't have it while Nvidia owners enjoyed AA. Only recent Catalyst drivers have allowed AA functionality in Starcraft 2.

If you're looking at more than just performance/price, then I would argue Nvidia is the better option. Whether we are talking about image quality, driver stability, or features Nvidia in most cases beats ATI. ATI currently excels in price/performance and a full lineup of DX11 cards, but that will soon change. If you have a hot-running graphics card, what does it matter if it has one temperature sensor or three? A hot card is a hot card, especially in a laptop and there is not much you can do about it if your graphics card runs hot in your laptop. If you have a cool-running card, then again who cares how many temp sensors you have? A cool running card is a cool-running card.

Speaking of SLI, in terms of performance and stability Nvidia's SLI overall has less problems than ATI's Crossfire. I'm sure some ATI 5970 owners can tell you about all their problems they've had with Crossfire.

I think the 445M might be the sweet spot in terms of price/performance for the Nvidia 400M series of cards, depending on how much less it costs than the 460M. Or, it could end up being the 460M.

Very good temperature performance for the 460M, but I'm not surprised. Of course it was going to have cooling performance similar to the GTX 460, because it's based on the same core.

 

The new 400M series laptops:

NVIDIA trots out GeForce 400M series laptops, shows off StarCraft II gameplay (video) -- Engadget

So far, the 460M is confirmed in the Asus G53JW, G73JW, Toshiba Qosmio X505 and MSI GT663.

 

Toshiba Qosmio gets my vote for most hideous performance laptop.

 

Having seen the Qosmio and G73 side by side, you can keep your love of dark plastic slabs and go to hell for all I care.

 

The core of my 5870 is around 80C as well during Furmark, yet thanks to the rest of the sensors, I was able to replace TIM on memory chips and now even the memory doesn't get above 85C.
In your case, you would just continue as is w/o worrying

I understand your position.
However, there are few things I should mention:

Regardless of the potential performance growth, as a buyer/customer, I have to live with the system right now, so there's a very little comfort for me in "wait for better drivers". I waited very long for good Nvidia drivers in the past and wouldn't blindly jump on it again.
Not long ago (less than a year, to be exact) we had to try 10 different drivers for our 280M's SLI and every new release would introduce additional issues (one or both cards not up/downclocking properly, chaotic gaming and benching performance, stuttering, etc). I personally tried about 10-12 different drivers just to realize - there's no perfect one and eventually had to settle for some modded version with decent performance but dead hybrid graphics mode and crippled Powermizer. So don't feed me with fairy tales, please. No offense, of course
I know that CF had a lot of issues on its own but, for me personally, dealing with 4870's CF was easy. Drivers are more stable and light. Removing/updating in most cases doesn't require CCleaner or even reboot. CF is working great and the minimal flickering and jittering that was present in some games in the past is solved with the current drivers. 5870's owners report the same. So, right now CF is stable and mature. The 400M series, though having good potential, still needs some polishing in the world of notebooks, which may take some time.

As for the temps, - I leave it for you to discover after buying the system and gaming regularly.
I'm not here to convince anyone.

 

Aikimox, I have to take issue with your "performance right now" argument.

What was the performance of the 5870 at its debut? It has certainly improved over the months, no? And it could keep improving with more driver updates.

Well, right now the 460M is really not that far from the performance of the 5870, even with the latter's 8+ month headstart. I agree with your "plug & play" attitude toward laptops, but if you're going to do a fair comparison of GPUs, you have to take into account the development time difference between them. You wouldn't compare a fully tuned 2010 car with a new 2011 stock model, would you?

 

I will quote this back at ya in 3 months from now, when 6870 hits

 

Lol, if the 6870 is better than the 460M I'll have no problem if you can accept that the 560M will destroy it.

 

The video review done by Gentech has a credible benchmark than speculation.

Both videos done at the launch of G73jh and G73jw so driver impact is less significant.

See for yourself and judge the performance of both cards.

G73jh

YouTube - Call of Duty : Modern Warfare 2 on Asus G73Jh notebook- Part 1

G73jw
YouTube - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on Asus G73JW 17.3" Gaming Notebook

I prefer call of duty video review because the action is taken on bridge with similar scene so performance benchmark is more credible.

First thing I notice is G73jw FPS dipped into 4x range sometimes while G73jh FPS never go below 50 (in the exception of dying part FPS dropped to 48 something). G73jh also got higher max FPS if that counts for something.

 

a45: Actually the odd thing with ATI drivers is that they really don't increase performance by leaps and bounds, mostly they are bugfixes and support for new games. I think a fair estimate is a difference of ~%10 performance between release (almost a year ago) and now - it's pretty much 1% per month. NV on the other hand is notorious for releasing buggy/poor drivers initially, and then updating+upgrading them as time goes on; I forget where exactly it was compared but I remember seeing something like 30% gains when comparing release NV drivers to "final" (when they officially stop supporting a card).

Also the trouble with the cat&mouse now is the cat(gtx5xx) isn't even in view of the mouse (68xx). NV took too long to develop fermi, but it should be pretty efficient at rebadging by now , so who knows.

 

If Nvidia is gonna wait another 8+ months, - who cares

 

Heh, to tell you the truth, I really don't care about AMD vs Nvidia, I'd gladly use either one, but since I have my heart set on a Qosmio, I'm pretty much locked in to Nvidia. I probably would have gone with the GTS 360m if it wasn't for the DX11 non-support. I've played MW2 and BFBC2 with an old G105m, so any of these GPUs will be a huge upgrade.

Seriously though Nvidia, nice going with the 400 series, but you guys really need to pick up the pace.

 

Just buy whatever makes you happy a4500435 ...

I have a G73JW coming next week now so ill be happy to give you my personal impressions ..

Having owned plenty of 5870 machines i know exactly how good or bad the 460m will be in comparison..

CPUman made some valid points and that guy has a clear knowledge of how things are for the 460 and i have read some of what he was saying by other pubs so i have no doubt drivers will improve the performance over time...

 

Possibly. You may want to read some reviews of drivers side by side. After a few months after GTX 480/GTX 470 release. TechPowerUp actually found the opposite. While the 480/470 performance largely unchanged but the 5870/5850 performance closed the gap further. Especially for 5850 making the 470 not a great purchase any longer.

And as I said before, I don't think the driver argument is valid. Samples and test units of the GF104 were released back in March. Nvidia has nearly half a year to optimize drivers for the high scalar setup (don't' want to say architecture since that is unchanged).

460M is what it will be. It will be a great mid-range performance. For laptops it has always been that the difference between high and mid-range was not much. Look at the 260M and 280M for example. And the 460M does have it's spot as I don't really see a strong mid-range from AMD. Maybe possibly the HD5850/5830.

I think I am not the only one. 460M isn't a disappointment in that it won't perform, because it does. The disappointment is that some have waited about 8 months after the HD5870M release, as GTX 480M is well beyond majority of laptop users budget... That after waiting 8 months for a GPU that costs more than the HD5870M, you aren't getting more performance.
- As I said another thread, you don't wait for less, you wait for more. 10-20%, whatever the difference it maybe, it's still less, and you still waited 8 months for this.

Whoa chill dude. No one should go to hell for not liking the Qosmio design. Although I do appreciate that almost every review of the G73 I've read and watched have so far said, it's the sexiest, sleekest, best looking gaming machine they have ever reviewed

 

Well I hope the GTX 460m SLI scales as well as the desktop GTX 460 scales in SLI. Just compare the SLI performance of the desktop GTX 460 versus the ATI Crossfire 5870 and the GTX 460 SLI is a much cheaper board but still beats the 5870 crossfire.

 

*Cough* Post copious amounts of benchmarks *cough*

 

Fixed that for ya

 

Haha yeah i will certainly be running alot of game benches..

It wont be just Vantage and the handful of others but the full stable of games i have and am interested in ala GTA4 where i dont think the 5870 does as well as it should ...

As for ditching it well we shall see lol... I just like to try new things and am very guilty of this ..

Someone needs to start a support ground for Laptop Buyers Anonymous ... I might be there first client