Nvidia`s schedule: Geforce 940MX, GTX 970MX and 980MX in Q2 2016

This actually scares me. This happened with the 7000 series. AMD brought it way early and nVidia laughed and slacked off with Kepler and full Kepler murdered everything original GCN could have conceived of. I REALLY do not want the same to happen with Polaris... AMD needs to NOT play catch up. Polaris has to be like... their equivalent of a Gx106 card has to be ballparking 980Ti territory.

Indeed. It actually saddens me that those very low-end (in desktop land) cards get nerfed further and cost as much as a midrange card in a laptop, and are so sought after.

 

Full Kepler murdered original GCN because Full Kepler was massive compared to original GCN chips. AMD didn't attempt to make a larger part until Hawaii which hands GK110 it's ass. The GTX 680 launched marginally faster than 7970 (Tahiti), but once AMD sorted their GCN drivers out, Tahiti was faster than GK104 consistently.

AMD needs market share and it needs it right now, they need to release ASAP. The longer Nvidia don't have a part that competes the better.

 

While true, it still needs to certainly not happen now. Whenever nVidrosoft shoves Pascal out, it needs to not even slightly exceed Polaris. I hope Polaris is strong enough to survive nVidrosoft's Pascal delay. AND COOLER. PLEASE.

Hawaii didn't do crap to GK110 until after Maxwell came out. While it's nice for AMD users NOW versus Kepler users, it did not mean jack on launch, and during the lifespan of Kepler, and AMD needs to not need its potential slowly crawling out the woodworks. This also applies to GK104 vs Tahiti.

Market share in the short term is of minimal worth. If AMD sells cards for two quarters and then fades into obscurity because they have to play "catch-up" to Pascal, then AMD loses. End of story. AMD needs a lasting, resounding victory, not short-term market share success. They need to live, not win two matches and get kicked out of the tournament.

 

AMD will continue to lose market share if they don't act now like some of you have mentioned. NVIDIA will slaughter them in the graphics race.

Even if AMD comes out with something more superior, they need to shy away from their formula of giving all they've got toward one GPU and crapping on the rest of the line of products.

NVIDIA is at least consistent and this is what has won the audience over, thus capitalizing on the market share, holding over 80% of the overall market in general.

Only the future will tell, but even if AMD comes out with a big bang it'll likely be one product that will be short lived due to the nature of them going up against a giant (NVIDIA) that has a lot more resources to do what they want, when they want without the fear of an ankle biter (chihuahua...aka...AMD).....Pascal anyone?

AMD's smartest strategy will be to beg Samsung (Worlds #1 Chip Maker) to take them under their wings to help them in crawling out of this, "always trying to catch up / uphill battle," against the Giant. 300 men can take on 3000 if the strategy is right. AMD 'could' do it if they play the right cards.

Get with the program AMD....

I will support and go with whoever is the Champ....no brand loyalty here....just an enthusiast that won't settle for 2nd place.

 

A few more months in the oven will achieve what exactly? The designs were completed a long time ago. GPUs don't go from design stage to a completed product just like that. It takes the better part of a year from tape out to an actual product in your hands. It's done. Finished. Get it out while your opponent has nothing to match it.

Given the option of a 14nm AMD GPU or a 980MX, the choice is clear. AMD has an awful record with OEM design wins and they now have another opportunity to be the only viable option.

To succeed in the long term AMD need larger investment in R&D and you can only do that with money. To make money you first need something to sell. Their R&D budget has shrunk substantially over the years and it is showing. Sitting on Polaris for 3-4 months and clocking it a little higher to better compete with Pascal is NOT a healthy long term strategy.

 

Their "R & D" has not shrunk. It has increased and will continue to increase.

https://ycharts.com/companies/NVDA/r_and_d_expense

It's a public company, guys. Go read all of their stuff. It's right there! You can literally predict their moves by doing some research.

P.S. And if you want even more information, go buy a share.

 

He was saying AMD R&D has shrunk not Nvidia. You linked to Nvidia. It has shrunk by $150M in three years: https://ycharts.com/companies/AMD/r_and_d_expense

 

Was reading the other posts and thought he was talking about the 900 series.



Oops. Off-topic!

 

14nm + recent leap in R&D knowledge for AMD is ALL thanks to Samsung.

AMD doesn't deserve to ever take credit for such a leap in silicon / die size advancement.

It's all what has been visually inherited from Samsung that makes it seem like it's from the works of AMD, when it's not.

Again, no brand loyalty with GPU's, though with electronics in general I am 100% Samsung SK Hynix (Hyundai Electronics Division) / LG.

So in theory I would want it to work out for AMD since Samsung will be the ones to save their behinds.

Either way, competition is good for us. It keeps them companies in check and we as the end users benefit from their chess game.

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I suppose we have TSMC to thank for the advancements Nvidia have made between 8800GT and Maxwell. Apparently the actual designers of the silicon have nothing to do with anything.

We should also all thank the Chinese plastic manufacturers for our phones

 

As for phones all the meat and potatoes of the components that really matter, on a worthy phone worth even being classified as a real smart phone like Samsung, LG, etc... are all provided / made by Samsung, LG, SKHynix which are all S.Korean giants. Apple's DNA is all Samsung (CPU, Memory components, motherboard components, battery cells etc...), LG (screen) and SKHynix (memory etc...)

Knock offs are of course chinese.

Our GPU's ...NVIDIA use SKHynix, the worlds 2nd largest chip maker next to Samsung.

 

Not disputing that semiconductor manufacturing is trivial, but I find it a little perplexing that you would put the performance of that AMD demo down to manufacturing alone. We've been on 28nm for years now and we've come a long way despite that, manufactuing has nothing to do with it.

Similarly, RSX (PS3 GPU) is manufactured at 45nm now and it's an absolute dog. Shrink it to 14nm and it's still going to be a dog. Clearly there is a bit more going on.

As far as AMD goes, if you've been keeping up with what's going on with the iPhone 6 (Apple dual supplying SoCs from Samsung 14nm and TSMC 16nm), you'd know that TSMC's silicon is preferred right now. Slightly larger die size for better thermal and electrical characteristics compared to a slightly smaller die on Samsung's process. The way it looks right now, Nvidia are going to go in with the process advantage unless something changes.

 

Nvidia uses TSMC for the silicon itself.
AMD uses GF's finfet for both their GPU and CPU this gen.

 

Mine say SKHynix...

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Thats for the VRAM......

AMD and Nvidia has been using TSMC 28nm for their recent GPUs.

 

I have a product of Samsung's 14nm... My Exynos 7420-powered Note 5. It regularly hits mid to upper 80s and throttles down. The highest I've seen the temp was 89C. That's asinine for an SoC... So I guess we will have to see what that means for Polaris.

 

Pretty crazy eh? I have the same phone. Just insane....looking forward to it as well..

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AMD is using GF 14nm.

 

Last I heard, GF is using Samsung's process after axing their own. Might as well be Samsung.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/anton-shilov/globalfoundries-14nm-yields-are-exceeding-our-plans/

 

14nm finfet LPE wouldnt be the process thst would make polaris. Usually the Low power process is introduced first with likely bad yield in the beginning. Also i did remeber looking at some die shot differences between TSMC GF and samsung. There are differneces I think.

 

http://wccftech.com/samsung-14nm-lpp-finfet-amd-x86-zen/

Differences between them should be minimal but yes GF is doing the GPUs.

 

I got a 970m in my g751jt and play ultra settings on most of my games. The 980m is more than enough I wouldn't wait. The 970m is already a beast I wouldn't wait personally.


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And then there's always the 980 if you want to opt for one of those machines.

 

I am surprised AMD is willing to push zen and polaris on a low power node. Though that may make sense if only polaris low power is on LPP and polaris big die is on a different process. It does make sense to push out the smaller die first and then deal with the big die.

 

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I have been saying this as well for quite awhile now with regards to the Corporate roadmap survivability of AMD long-term.
They have been and continue to be hemorrhaging money, and they can't last too much longer without a strong infusion of capital/cash from a larger and much successfully run entity, and that is where Samsung comes in.
2016 will be the year for AMD to show profitability with their 14nm, Fury, HBM, Polaris, etc, products, but given their very poor track record over the last 5 years or so, I am not going to hold my breath on their reversal of fortune without some kind of a merger/acquisition.
The consumer stands to lose big time if AMD doesn't do this, because they are only bailing water out of a sinking ship in the process, and that means Nvidia wins out, and we all lose.

 

Indeed.....well said. We need AMD there to keep them (NVIDIA) in check or it'll become a monopoly. The sad thing is....it kind of already is as NVIDIA owns the majority of the market share...

If AMD fails again...it'll just make things official for NVIDIA to claim 100% dominance.

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Legally, they can't capitalize more than 67%. So, they'll just rebrand if AMD rebrands to maintain their current 62%~ share.

But I agree. If AMD drops the ball again, they are pretty much done for. Another generation of rebrands may put them down. I wouldn't be surprised if another player entered the market soon, if this trend keeps up. It is said that they exist for the sole purpose of preventing a monopoly.

Anyway, I'm sure they are going to surprise us this time.

 

I feel the same way about AMD this time around the rodeo, in that AMD may surprise us with something big. Thanks to Samsung.

As complex as silicon is, in general, there's a lot more to Samsung than just producing the chips...which even then, isn't "just" producing as it is extremely complex. Samsung is generations ahead of everyone else in this sector. That's why everyone uses them...Apple, Computer manufactures in general, pretty much any worthy piece of electronic (for the most part) etc...then there's the cheap chinese knock offs. Wannabe's. People would try to argue...well everything is made in china....umm....*face palm* to them...

First of all, it's either "assembled," there and/or if it's actually manufactured there, it is on S.Korean soil (Samsung, LG, HKHynix etc...)...ie...think of it like an embassy. An US American Embassy in China is 'American Soil' that fall under US American laws. Same applies with Samsung...the laws, rules, technology and quality control is all S.Korean, not chinese. It's also heavily observed for quality control to meet the standard of Samsung. So the argument of everything is made in china is moot at best, because there is much more behind it than that little golden oval sticker with black letters that say, made in china.

Back to AMD and NVIDIA ... A great example of why it is smart for AMD to kiss Samsung's feet is because of what happened with the MacBook Pro's that offered the AMD gpu, which didn't play nicely at all with Intel along with heating issues. This comes to show that it's not just about the silicon itself, but also the integration / software side of things as well.

Very much looking forward to all the great things to come....surprise us AMD! LOL....

 

I found it odd too but apparently LPP is actually suitable for GPUs.

 

So both polaris 10 and polaris 11 on based on LPP and has been demoed? Thats really strange considering zen might be on the same process as well. I am starting to wonder if LPP is suitable for both CPU and GPU or just it is the best out of the available processes. I have a feeling that GF might have dropped the ball again and their whatever HP process is simply not ready for prime time. AMD doesnt need anymore trouble. Zen is more or less their last chance for their CPU division. I wonder whats the actual die size for polaris 11 anyways, it will be interesting to see if its around 300-mm2 like 7970 or massive die like nvidia flagships.

 

I think this is said every year...yet amd is still strong. After all aren't the graphics chips in consoles made by amd?

I always thought amd's apu was gonna be the game changer but it seems Intel has stepped up its integrated graphics considerably for the past several years.


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It sounds suspicious to me as well, I guess we will have to wait and see what happens. I want Polaris and Zen to succeed. I'd probably pick up a Polaris chip for my desktop if it came in at the right price and performance. AMD is pretty much hosed on mobile though. There are AMD loyal customers who will jump the second a new chip gets released but it's more OEMs I'm worried about. Consumers may be quick to dismiss past mistakes but the OEMs who had to replace however many hundreds or thousands of failed AMD chips since the 6000 series won't.

 

Now that the major OEMs are all on the internal G-Sync train, AMD would have to do better than turning water into wine.

 

AMD is practically invisible on mobile (except on MacBooks). It's rather disheartening to see Nvidia practically monopolising the laptop market, and we all know monopolies aren't good for consumers. Hopefully Polaris works well.

 

I pray AMD gets competitive again on the mobile gpu market. I for one, am sick and tired of the laziness of the NVidia's developers.
Pretty much every single driver released in 2015 was a complete mess. Maybe if they start feeling the heat from the competition they'll start to take their jobs a little more seriously...

 

Perhaps on new cards. But the previous cards will still be forgotten. As always

 

Yep, as you said it yourself, they'll be a distant memory comes 2nd half 2016... But my little finger tells me Pascal won't be ready by then...

I swear I am almost ready to give up completely on my gaming laptop and stick to consoles for gaming!
Last night I had ONLY about 1 hour to play after the wife went to sleep. So now that I am done with Fallout 4, I decided to get started with Assassin Creed Syndicate...
I launch the game, BAM, BSOD! Some Kernel Security crap... Steam forums showed countless people facing the same issue. Reason? Drivers problem. Surprise surprise.
DDU then trial and error until I finally manage to get things working with 361.60.... But then again the performance is catastrophic... True, I am back on my 880m for the time being but I wasn't expecting THAT. On Very high or ultra I don't get more than 15fps... High takes me straight to 30fps. I read some additional tweaks I can do which I will try tonight. Should take me up to 50-60 hopefully....
Damn, I hate console ports...

 

You have two issues. 361.60 and Ubisoft. Good luck! The last good Kepler driver was 337.88 in my opinion. And Ubisoft... Well there's no fix for that besides not playing their games.

361.60 doesn't even work right with Maxwell...

 

Although for my system I haven't seen any significant (nor insignificant) performance / stability differences between drivers over the last year for my Kepler card, latest drivers have worked fine for me.

 

Nvidia Pascal Titan Rumored to be coming as early as April
http://www.overclock3d.net/articles...itan_rumored_to_be_coming_as_early_as_april/1

 

Damn, so HBM wn't enter the mainstream market until 2017 at least.

 

If that's true then TSMC finally got their 16FF+ HP process up to acceptable yield levels. Its been delayed what, two, three times? I lose count of how many times TSMC has delays.......

 

Quote from the article:

 

Lets see, 40nm was botched, 32nm was so bad that they had to cancel the entired process and screw AMD over, 28nm had horrible initial yield on big die, 20nm was a disaster as well. Does anyone see a pattern here?

 

Haha, yep, I noticed that too - no way a new architecture comes every year, more like every 2 years! Rebrands or slightly higher clocked & maybe a few stream processors might come after a year - like the 680M / 780M / 880M developments, but I don't really count that as a new generation.

 

Well lets put it this way. Qualcomm pulled their Snapdragon 820 from them and teamed up with their rival Samsung because of all the delays on 16FF. That SoC contract had to cost them a LOT to lose because Samsung is going back to using both Exynos and Qualcomm chips this year depending on the market. The 820 has already been banked for flagships all over the world, including China of all places. TSMC needs to get their act together.

 

Precisely. AMD doesn't have the torque to carry them through and had to opt for the giant Samsung to save their bacon.

Yet...Samsung's Exynos SoC's still and will walk circles around the 820.

This comes to show one thing. AMD isn't in the safe zone yet just because they've slaved themselves out to the King. Their hole is too deep to crawl out of with ease. So in a way it's like a bail out....let's hope it all works out and I hope it does.

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yeah should be about 5-7% increase at best, I know the math looks under 10% but keep in mind it will most likely thermally throttle or have power issues.

 

Next step is for Samsung to just buy their GPU division. And maybe we will see Exynos with Radeon.

Might be positive for gamers too since AMD seem to suck at business.

 

Now that the GPU and CPU divisions are separate, its actually possible for Samsung to do this.