*Official* nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread

Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you implying macbook pro15 is for heavy workloads? or 4980hq is worse than 6700hq? And no, I never said that.

 

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Whoops your right about 3.2 not 3.1, but I don't remember it every being able to hold 3.4Ghz on all four cores for any long duration, I remember 3.1ish. Though in all likelihood there was probably some throttling as my cpu was not well cooled. It hit 90C fairly often smh.

 

Doesnt mean 6700hq is ideal for light workload. Do you care about power consumption/etc at all?
I just dont want to pair it with a high end gpu/etc, personally....
I just dont want a laptop with a rather slow processor.

 

I see your point but now you're contradicting what you first said. You said at first that it is "only ideal for light workloads," now you're saying that it's not? Pick a side and stick to it. Also, when did power consumption become any part of the conversation, hm? I just wanted to know why you would think that high end gaming cpus can only handle light work?


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It only can if you undervolt it and properly cool it. My GT60 runs it at 3.4ghz at a max tdp of about 40w so it can do it indefinitely.

But it does depend on how you tweak it. Most terrible HQ processors for example, throttle down to 3.1-3.2ghz when streessed hard.

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Are 14" gsync screens coming?

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How does turbo boost work? Let's take 6700hq. If a single core works in 3.5 ghz are all other cores forced to work at base clock at 2.6 ghz? Is this the same case for dual core boost? If yes doesnt it make more sense to make all cores work at 3.1?

 

Not "only ideal", but more like "only acceptable". Big difference.

This is my exact quote "To me, a 6700hq is only acceptable on laptops with light workload."

LOL 6700hq at 3.1ghz is not a high end CPU by any means imo. Hence, I consider it acceptable on business/consumer laptops where you dont necessarily need that much CPU power. It would be a decent upgrade compared with the usual ULV stuff.

High end gaming CPU starts with 6700k IMO.

Also, this is off topic. Lets go back on topic.

 

I don't fully get that last point. Most games don't even use more than 4 cores, a 6800k should lose to a 6700k for gaming in most instances. Especially with both at stock clocks, and the 6800k isn't even a good overclocker compared to the 5820k. A 6950X is just throwing money away for gaming.

 

I am considering overclocking as well and 6700k doesnt offer 40PCIE lanes.
For pure gaming wise, 6700k is pretty much top end considering the amount of OC headroom imo. Unless dx12/vulkan/etc start to take advantage of more cores. no idea if thats happening.

Anyways, this is far off topic.

On topic: So we all agree the new Acer 21inch is not that good considering the bga natures of the components?

 

Oh yeah, well you just said its the only option I thought before, when yeah its like the best.

I can't believe its that absolutely enormous with soldered components. What could possibly be filling all that space? And no desktop cpu is also a missed opportunity.

 

Doesn't look like anything below 15.6" because the market favors higher resolutions on small screens.

Maybe next year.

 

100% agree... " not that good" is a kind understatement, but still accurate.

The space is filled with the shattered hopes and broken dreams of enthusiasts that thought, for a fleeting moment, Acer might have actually done something special. No socketed K-series desktop CPU and BGA GPUs is a pretty massive failure. If takes it from being an interesting option to no longer a viable option status for enthusiasts.

 

I think they said specs are still not final on the Acer but I serious doubt they will move away from BGA at this point. Also, even though it's a 21" screen, due to it being an ultra-wide, the size of the base from front to back is probably roughly the same size as an AW 17 from front to back. There may not be as much space as it initially sounds like there should be when you here that it has a 21" screen.

Despite all of that, if I were choosing between this and the Asus 18 with the dual 1080's, I might still go with this as long as the fans can keep it cool enough. That liquid cooler in the Asus is just huge and obnoxious. That's IF I was considering one of these.

Mr Fox,

Based on your sig, it looks like you are down to a 980m machine. I am looking forward to seeing what direction you choose to go from here and I know that being down to a single 980m must be driving you crazy. Please keep me/us posted on your thought process and what direction you are leaning during this "transition" it seems is being forced on a lot of people.

 

I mean the crazy high end has 4 options now. The most powerful is the P870DM3-G (desktop cpu). Then the next 3 are tied with the MSI GT83, Asus GX800, and Acer 21X.

 

Yes, that is true, it is driving me nuts to be honest. Single GPU just isn't cutting it for me. I will be making a decision by the end of the month. It won't be difficult as it all boils down to having only two acceptable options to choose from. The options are a P870DM3 with 1080 SLI (the only high performance notebook that I will consider buying at this point) or going back to desktops and just forgetting about notebooks for good. I absolutely will not accept BGA filth in something expensive. BGA is fine for something under $300, but that's about the most I would be interested in paying for a BGA turdbook no matter how fancy it is.

 

You have to overclock for 3.4, but your signature has a 47 10MQ. That is 3.3GHz stock and 3.5GHz max OC bins.

Firstly, Macs never make use of their CPUs. The machines are not designed to operate them even NEAR full load. For most video rendering and photo editing and whatnot, they use OpenCL acceleration which is not available in Adobe Products and most other counterpart products on Windows (like Sony Vegas versus say... Final Cut Pro). They are NOT using their CPU for grunt work. @Mobius 1 couldn't get a Macbook to *not* thermal throttle even at stock under any kind of halfway heavy workload.

Next, a 4980HQ is 3.8GHz 4-core turbo at stock. The 6700HQ is 3.1GHz. There is no way, in this UNIVERSE, that a 6700HQ is ever going to be faster, even considering the likelihood of TDP throttle on the 4980HQ.

They used to. I've seen 4900MQ workstation machines. But when Intel forced HQ processors and they couldn't hold TDP above 47W for Haswell and Broadwell without hacking the EC, or otherwise tricking the CPU to believe it was drawing much less than it actually was (like with powercut in throttlestop), it didn't really matter what they put in those systems.

Skylake has no such TDP draw limit by default (though OEMs/ODMs can put them in) and draws less power overall than haswell did, but are generally binned extremely badly and their clockspeeds are all very slow by default. Since overclocking isn't a thing, and the 6920HQ is a 3.4GHz 4-core load quadcore at $600 USD for no bloody reason whatsoever, nobody bothers putting better stuff anywhere. It's 6700HQ all day erry day.

Spoiler: I wrote another book

The GT83 and ASUS GX800 are only "options" if they:
- Can keep their CPUs cool (user repastes/mods/undervolts/etc are fair game) under heavy loads while overclocked (6820HK, 4.2GHz minimum).
- Can hold their TDP under heavy loads while OC'd (ASUS is known for a 75W long power limit and MSI is known to lock most of their CPUs to their normal TDP, which is 45W in this case).
- Can keep the whole system very cool under stock configurations with very heavy loads without dropping boost clocks on the GPUs whatsoever, allowing for people to run some overclocking.
- Have support for 3000MHz+ RAM and manual tuning of RAM in the BIOSes (if you don't understand how much good RAM helps and how bad mobile DDR4 RAM is, that's on you. This is necessary).
- No artificial power draw limits.
- Warranty that allows us to clean/repaste/modify/etc the inside as long as we don't break anything.
- Unlocked BIOS support
- Ability to turn off Secure Boot and use Legacy/CSM boot options
- Properly support Windows 7 and 8.1

Now, I know the P870DM3 can do all of this from what I've seen Meaker and Johnksss do, even if we require Prema mods to happen, and we need to make sure we get proper contact heatsinks and turn the fans up to maximum overdrive. A multi-thousand dollar machine with 1080 SLI is aimed towards performance more than anything else. I'm not saying we need to benchmark it to the limit (though some on this forum will disagree with me), but it needs to chew through stock and decent overclocks under long-term stress (few hours easy) without catching fire, especially with the 120Hz panel it has.

The Acer, I've seen the cooling system. It is interesting, but the CPU is extremely undercooled, and if its basic price is $5000 and everything but the RAM and storage is soldered to the board, it's not even worth considering. You cannot even put it in a backpack because it won't fit in any backpacks. The curved screen will collect dust inside when the lid is closed. I don't believe the existing cooling system as I've seen it is going to handle 1080s all that well. I *HIGHLY* doubt there will be any kind of good or unlocked BIOS for it either. Before it's been launched it's determined pointless, unless they make a *HUGE* redesign.

The complaints I have for the GX800 is the fact that it needs its waterblock to function properly. This means it defeats the purpose of it as a "laptop" and traveling with it on airplanes is basically out of the question, but I'm willing to give it a benefit of the doubt kind of ordeal where I don't slay it before it exists. I'm fair. If it can achieve single 1080 performance + good CPU performance when away from its dock, then I'll say some people may find use in it.

The GT83's got some issues. The main one, and one shared by the Acer, is that it is only 1080p 60Hz. Now, I'm gonna be the first guy to tell you that there's pretty much always a way to boost visuals even if your resolution is too low. But two 1080s at 1080/60 is just overkill. We've actually gotten to that point. I expect no game to chew through two 1080s at 1080p/60fps for any reason until maybe Volta is almost dead. Even a single 1080 is going to be hard pressed to fail 1080/60 ultra, CPU-bottlenecked games not being counted. The second issue is going to be CPU cooling. The GT80 was awful cooling the CPU, even with repastes done. Ask @ryzeki. If that's a similar deal, and the heatsinks are still sharing fins (which they appeared to be to me) then it's not going to handle highly clocked CPUs even if it could draw as much power as it wanted. Maybe it's fine now, but I don't know. I'd much rather inspect it myself, toss CLU on it, inspect it some more, run it through some rigours like streaming some demanding games, and then pass judgement on it. But I'm probably not getting one.

P870DM3 ain't scot free either. The fact that we need Prema mods for it and that they come with warped heatsinks and borked fan control software is already extremely bad. But the issue here, why it gets chosen, is because as I keep saying, it's easier to fix a software issue than it is to fix a hardware issue. The GT83, Acer 21" and GX800 all have, as I pointed out, at least potential hardware issues. I'm waiting to see if these are unfounded fears, but if they are not, then the choice is lessened. MSI and ASUS have been proven to be incapable of increasing the long power TDP lock on their CPUs, and I honestly expect full crap from Acer. ASUS is known for being extremely proprietary and anti-consumer, anti-upgrade, etc. I have seen someone void warranty on a $3000 ASUS laptop because he put the hard drive it came with in SATA slot 2 instead of SATA slot 1, because slot 1 was blocking his M.2 slot with the 9mm thick 2.5" HDD (needed a 7.5mm drive in there, like a SSD). Listen to what I said. He voided warranty on a $3000 full-soldered machine by changing the location of the hard drive. THE WHOLE SYSTEM.

And then further to this, the fact that neither MSI nor ASUS is willing to use desktop CPUs is also concerning for those who want to overclock more. You're going to hit a usable limit around 4GHz to 4.2GHz on a 6820HK, even with unlimited power draw, because the voltage required for those speeds is so high due to bad binning. The last picture I saw with John trying an ASUS 6820HK at 4.1GHz was 1.25v. Mobius got 1.18v, but it still hit a TDP throttle at 75W under extended stress. As far as I know, they could not get their voltages any lower. On the other hand, 6700Ks are doing 4.6GHz at 1.26v with relative ease. 4.2GHz is much easier for them, and can likely be done at much less voltage on average. They also are at a stable 4GHz at base clocks, and with a 95W TDP limit, even if they were TDP locked to this, they'd most likely never get TDP limited at stock, and I cannot say the same for a 4GHz 6820HK.

So, while I am still adopting a wait-and-see for these top end machines, I will criticize everything as it comes. I bashed the P870DM3 for temperatures a lot until I saw that a working heatsink and undervolted CPU could sit easily in the mid 70s for most gaming scenarios in a 25c room, which is fine. Liquid Ultra delids on the CPU and slight OCs on the GPUs would keep things still easy and the CPU could be overclocked. MSI and ASUS and Acer (though I doubt Acer) have to play catch up now.

 

If it's the same LCD as the GT80, every single one I've heard of overclocks flawlessly to 100, and most of them to 110-115 without issues. For CPU-only loads, I was getting roughly 80C at 80W with CLU and max fans, but I imagine with two Pascal monsters breathing fire onto the CPU fins it'll be really bad. It all comes down to how much the third fan helps.

 

I'm not sure if you saw it, but there's a new 21" notebook coming to the market with 1080 SLI by Acer. It has a curved display, too. May be worth checking out!

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/04/acer-predator-21x-hands-on/

Spoiler: Another image of internals

Looks like a monster to me! Comes with dual ports for a dual-PSU setup. If I had the money to blow, I'd grab it out of curiosity.

If you ask me, that's a damn good start to designing a proper enthusiast-grade gaming notebook. If only Alienware did this years ago.

 

The Skylake 6820HK has a set TDP limit of 56 short and 45 indef. This can be overridden by XTU or BIOS, maybe throttlestop if BIOS allows/isn't clockblocked by manufacturer.

6700HQ, can easily undervolt to below 40 watt at 3.1GHz. Weak CPU though.




Also on that Mac, this is what I did. I believe the flat heatpipe don't conduct heat fast enough. The intel heatsink on top barely gets hot even after 5 minutes of OCCT burn.

This is the cooling mod as you can see, the heatpipe remains cool to the touch for some reason. Not sure what the problem is, maybe the heatspreader isn't able to transfer heat or is soldered on badly, or maybe the heatsink paint just insulates the thermal energy inside it.

Spoiler

Stock "paste" they use, probably just some assembly worker's semen.

Spoiler

@triturbo


The fan is split into 1/2 halves, the fins that have intake on the upper portion of the impeller, and the useleses ones on the lower half that doesn't have any access to air.

They should at least drill some holes to let airflow on the lower half of the impeller, or make the fans cage have a hole to draw air from a top vent. (This is what MSi did with the GS73/64VR, the fans suck air form both the upper chassis and lower chassis vent)

Fans max out at 5600 and 5400rpm, which is meaningless since the heatsink is so small.

Spoiler

Mm, tricky... They hide the last heatsink screw with a rubber cap. Keep your eyes peeled!


GS73/63VR fan intake (can actually see through the laptop)

Spoiler

I fell asleep the night before I returned this laptop and ran OCCT / Heaven for about 6-7 hours. CPU averaged 90c and the GPU around 85c (stock). Guess it didn't survive...

Spoiler

@D2 Ultima

 

Whats your opinion of the Alienware 17 with 1080GTX? will it be the best notebook with a single 1080GTX?

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Clevo P775DM3 for best single GPU if you want to put some work into repaste/delid.

 

But without those, which is better? That or AW17?

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We can't possibly know how well the new AW 13/15/17 will be until someone reviews them. Alienware's history is not great, not since the new generation laptops appeared in 2014-2015. It will be interesting to see how they "changed" the cooling in the new systems... Honestly, I think they just altered the layout and adjusted the fan profile a little bit and are calling it "revolutionary."

Alienware cuts corners now, in both design and production. I would not expect greatness. And yes, I'd love for them to prove me wrong. I miss the old Alienware.

 

That

 

Just checked. It is 1060, not 1080.

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Me too. I missed the brand. It has been proven that laptops are not GPU upgrade possible anymore and if that is the future, well...uh.... It's sad

How's the graphics amplifier? Does it really work?

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Looks like Razer already features Kaby Lake processors (ULV). More notebooks will follow suit by the end of the month, I guess.

Alienware is expected to launch the new 13" laptop in November. Not sure why so late, but I'm betting it'll house Kaby Lake by then.

I may wait for Kaby Lake, just 'cause. What's another month or two? Not a big deal.

 

Overclocking the screen is not the same as native refresh. I mean yes, it's good, and it helps quite a bit, but some titles don't like it, mainly source engine titles. I believe @Plur cannot seem to get source engine games to use above 60Hz on her P770DM's OC'd screen.

 

Kaby Lake for Desktop and Laptop 45w won't be out until Q1 2017, usually that means end of Q1 availability.

More like 6-8+ months before it's announced, shipping, and available in quantity to find easily.

 

I mean... I agree with all of that, but you didn't really contradict me at all... Those are the options, they all have flaws, but those are them. 4 super high end laptops exist period. Doesn't matter how they cool blah blah whatever, those are your choices if you want 1080 sli. You can't say they aren't an option when they clearly have the specs. Temps may suck and they may throttle but a throttling 1080 sli will crush anything else still. The Prema bios P870DM is probably the best option though.

 

That's interesting, I haven't run across a single game that wouldn't run at 100hz with vsync off, and I used Rivatuner to limit the FPS to 100.

There are games that won't vsync higher than 60hz, they don't check the panel refresh, they are going off the "canned" expectation of 60hz panels.

But, many games would vsync at 100hz ok, tracking the live current refresh setting of the panel.

 

FWIW, as another data point, I had DOTA2 working just fine on my OC@115, both the Source and Source2 versions.

 

The ones in the GA scored higher than their notebook counterparts using 6820hk
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/11536017/3dm11/11471195/3dm11/11539191/3dm11/11484671
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9959048/fs/9950603/fs/10024053/fs/9233022
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/sd/4175169/sd/4287862/sd/4171069/sd/4287794

 

Yeah, this is what I mean. It won't sync to 80Hz or 100Hz etc. Whatever it is she tried.

Could you set in-game "xxxx * xxxx @ 115Hz" and vsync it?

@Galm17 the reason I gave those detailed explanations is that if you're paying multiple thousands of dollars for a laptop, especially one as high end as 1080 SLI, then the system had better work freaking flawlessly. It needs a good CPU complement, good resolution/refresh compliment, good power usage and cooling options, and good RAM compatibility/tweaking. If you don't have those things, as far as I'm concerned, it's wasting the 1080 SLI and wasting the user's money.

Granted, my standards are above most of the people on this forum... but honestly? Most people on desktops expect the standards I expect as a "default", while paying almost half the price. I think people should raise their standards for laptops too. Low standards are part of the reason we are where we're at right now.

 

I doubt you can certify such a statement, so it's best to not be made.

 

Hi. Yes, I saw it and initially was interested until it was confirmed that it is BGA (CPU and GPUs) then I immediately lost any and all interest. I posted a few rants about that filth already. It's a real shame to have such a big nice machine with what looks to be great external features that is castrated on the inside.

 

Not to mention it will cost a fortune once it breaks down outside of warranty.

 

Does the new Titan X work on the GA?

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This is true. I bet a motherboard for that thing would be crazy expensive, too.

 

A new Asus GX800VH pre-production unit review.



Product web page with production specs:
https://www.asus.com/Notebooks/ROG-GX800VH/Features/

 

So expensive that, if it breaks outside of warranty, it'd be dumb to not dump it to buy a brand new machine.

 

This thing is such a ridiculously bad buy. Why spend $5k to be at a technological dead end?

 

Do you mean like the Clevo P870DM/P775DM, and MSI GT72/GT80/GT80S/GT72S?

 

And probably not easy to find

 

every laptop is a dead end nowadays

 

Man, what a cheery bunch

It's true, *all* these high end laptops without backup parts inventories are all going to have support issues in the years ahead after their warranties expire.

Not enough are sold to part'em out to make good ones out of failed laptops.

There are US law's that require support for so many years with replacement parts, I should probably check into that.

My laptops in the past haven't been upgradeable, I sell them and replace them with new ones every couple of years, or sooner.

So far I have sold all before the warranty ran out, and the ones I keep track of are all still running fine.