Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

Folks from NotebookCheck mentioned each of notebook GTX 1060 / 1070 / 1080 having TDP higher by about 10 watts compared to their Maxwell predecessors (GTX 970M / 980M / 980).

They attribute it to unspecified sources they personally spoke with (presumably when they were at Computex).

This is corroborated (to some extent) by MSI's actions - they added second GPU fan to their thin chassis GS63 and GTS73.

Clevo already had 3 fans in their thin P650/670 models, so they didn't need to do anything.

But yes, we'll have to wait for thorough reviews to see what's really going on

 

BTW for what it's worth, these people divined notebook Pascals TDP like this:

GTX 1060 - 80 watts
GTX 1070 - 120 watts
GTX 1080 - 150 watts

http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/299...s-get-detailed-first-live-images-leak-online/

 

OK, that's different, because pages back when this originally came up people were saying that they are hotter at the same rated TDP. If it's a higher TDP, I do not think these players like ASUS or MSI would be dumb enough to not change the cooling at all if more is needed, keep in mind they've been testing these designs for many, many months now. I can't speak to Razer, but it seems like MSI is on the ball and even the GS43VR listing ( https://www.amazon.com/MSI-GS43VR-P...ie=UTF8&qid=1471314303&sr=8-1&keywords=GS43VR) mentions the doubling up on GPU fans and 5 heatpipes.

 

nVIDIA NDA on Pascal GPU’s for laptops has lifted...no more waiting...check your favorite dealer's website for details.

 

I just checked out XoticPC, HIDevolution, and GenTechPC's websites. Nothing yet...

 

there is already a msi gs63vr gtx1060 review
the temperature is really high
play overwatch for 30minutes,cpu is 80℃，and GPU is 87℃
the stable clock for CPU is 2.6Ghz,the stable clock for GPU is 1.2Ghz

 

Do you have a link to the review?

 

give it another couple of hours brah and you can place your order on HIDevolution

 

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4732227029?see_lz=1

 

Damn. If that is the situation with the 15.6in GS63VR, I'd hate to see the temperature of the GS43VR / Gigabyte Aero 14 v2.

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It looks like it is throttling and can only maintain 1215/2002 instead of the default 1405/2002 clock. The highest GPU temp after:
Overwatch is 89C, average 87C.
GTA 5 (Ultra) is 89C, average 87C
World of Tanks is 88C, average 85C
Crysis 3 is 88C, average 86C

Please correct me if there is something wrong, my Chinese is not very good.

 

To be clear, I am no thermal expert. I am a.. what's the best word? Logician? That might be it. For better or for worse, I am completely incapable of understanding anything illogical, on a physical level.

To this extent, I simply pick apart all information available to me. For example, here is how I determine that Pascal is hotter than Fermi:

Information:
- GP104 GTX 1080 is a 180W card. Reference version with 120% power limit will not pull over 180W, as said by a user with the card here. Card is using the Maxwell Titan X cooler, a 250W-rated cooler with a vapor chamber cooling system. This cools it generally worse than the Titan X itself.
- GF114 GTX 560Ti is a 170W card. No information on how much it pulls at reference or with its maximum allowed power limit. Card is NOT using a cooler rated for under 250W, and lacks a vapor chamber. This cools slightly worse than the 1080's current system in terms of temperatures granted (meaning it hits higher degrees celcius) but it does NOT sit at thermal throttle status all the time without shoving fanspeed to 80% or higher.
- Vapor chamber cooling systems pull and spread out heat far more effectively than normal heatsinks or heatpipe systems, and essentially draw heat away from concentrated heat points far more effectively than possible with said normal heatsinks or heatpipe systems.

Therefore I see it this way. GP104 needs a vapor chamber on a 250W TDP cooler to cool its sub-180W power draw, whereas GF114 does not, and likely putting that cooler on a 560Ti would render it so much cooler it's funny.

Because architectures do not get massively hotter or colder simply by going from one tier to another (GM107 to GM206 to GM204 etc will be rather predictably hot/cool), combined with the MASSIVE vapor chamber cooler of the Pascal Titan X (which barely works, ask @tgipier) proving that the 1080 isn't a broken card in itself, it stands to reason that even Fermi, the overheating bastard child of nVidia that was the butt end of jokes such as this, is in fact cooler than Pascal is, and thus laptops are going to need to step up their games HEAVILY in cooling, or lel, lelulelulelulel, lolololololol, rofl, rolfmfao, lmfao, LOL, LUL, LEL, HAHAHAHAHAHA, LLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL, roflmfaocopter, etc they're going to be in for an extremely bad time.

After this, I was talking to some others and we determined it was the thermal density of the small die size and high clockspeed etc that was the cause, simply because it can really be nothing else.

And as far as waiting for reviews go, I urge people to ignore reviews from places like Linus, PCGamer, PCPer, or anybody else that has been known in the past to skim and skirt around mentioning thermal throttling or power limit throttling or anything BAD that laptops actually do and sell aesthetics as good points, etc. Wait till people here get things; @HTWingNut usually gets some reviews though I know not if he is busy enough to review anything, etc. I'm sure quite a few people are going to dive into these new machines or properly pick information form other forums and such and compile them and give the real nitty gritty here. I also volunteer to review if anybody decides I'm capable =D.

 

Or for that matter, 15.6" laptops with 1070s in them...

@HTWingNut's reviews are fantastic, and I hope he can review the new Clevos coming out! I'd also love it if you, @D2 Ultima, could review the GS43VR at some point, and perhaps the new Clevo P650RS-G (with a 1070) and whatever 14" Clevo eventually releases-I trust your critical eye and that you won't bull**** folks on temps or performance. That's assuming you're taking requests for reviews, anyway

 

Actually, I think the old titan x used a similar sized cooler, but yeah, my card runs pretty hot imo.

Edit: also of similar size with 580 and similar size with 1080.... I think.

 

I hope I can keep up the quality. Glad you like them. Should have a couple fun ones over the next month or so.

 

That's really good analysis and advice, thanks a lot! I think the thermal density makes a lot of sense even for someone even with no engineering background - we have less area creating the same amount of heat or more, so just getting it out of that small profile is gonna be a difficult task.

I'm bummed by that GS63 review though, it was pretty high on my list. I wonder if there is a higher fan mode that would help - it would be good if we could choose between crappy acoustics and crappy throttling depending on our needs

 

I cannot see any of pascal powered laptop anywhere from major USA seller

 

Msi nda up in 40 minutes.

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[mods please delete]

 

Cool, nice find. In addition to the GS43 I linked to earlier, there's also this now:
https://www.amazon.com/skylake-Pasc...c&ie=UTF8&qid=1471317847&sr=1-4&keywords=1060

 

So now the MSI count down clock is saying that actually, there's over 12 hours left? But it also still says it's counting down to 9:00pm PST on August 15th (i.e., in 30 minutes from now)? Argh! Which is it?

 

Wow, seems like prices really went up this generation... I'm just waiting for the XPS15 refresh; as long as it has at least gtx 970m performance for ~1500USD I'll be happy. I think it's a reasonable expectation. To be honest, Dell has spoiled me. Every laptop looks horrendous now after owning one with almost no bezels. Really wish more manufacturers would pick up on it. Alot of these 14 laptops could comfortably fit a 15.6 panel

 

Chill. Ignore the hour circle. It is 8:33 PST!

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Nice find!

Fine, I just turned the AC on. I hope you're right about the hour circle. Only twenty minutes left.

 

I'll review laptops if I get them to review, sure. I won't have access to a multimeter, but aside from that I shouldn't be too badly off.

The question is if people would send them for me to review =D. I was once offered to review a machine and it was retracted when they learned I lived in Trinidad and Tobago. You can tell where much of my annoyance for my country may come from =D.

 

_______________________________

A million thanks Mr.Fox for the explanation here. Now it makes sense to me.
At first, I thought BGA was an acronym for the
Bubble Gum Anonymous self-help group that counsels those addicted to Wrigleys Spearmint gum....LOL.

Seriously, this is very valuable and informative to me, and is a huge help.
I have always been a HUGE fan of Clevo for the last 16 years, because my friend is the CEO of MTechLaptops, and explained to me back then in 2000 when I bought my first gaming Laptop from them as to why Clevo is really the Gold Standard for Motherboard quality in Laptops, and it's why they are the best in the business.
If I recall correctly, my friend also informed me that a long, long time ago, AW used to use Clevo until Dell bought AW out, and they then immediately switched to the low-grade and cheap Uniwill/ECS motherboards (BGA?) that drastically lowered the overall quality of the AW and Dell laptop lines.
Ever since then, both Dell and AW have been essentially crap in terms of overall "fit and finish" from a quality point of view.
Ironically, even the older Gateway Laptops in the late 1990's were of high quality, until they too, switched to crappier low-grade parts in order to save money, and now they are out of business, largely because of it.
AW makes a nice Aluminum laptop shell for it's components, but the internal motherboard components are what's far more important, and their use of Uniwill/ECS as the motherboard and component manufacturer has really degraded the AW name, as many here already know.

Again, thanks for your valued info.

 

Why all of MSIs on that page have 8GB of RAM and no SSD?

I hope they can take 4 RAM slots, otherwise, they aren't getting any love from me.

 

I'm guessing here, but I think IBP gets the cheapest configs possible so that they and you don't need to pay the mark-up from MSI et al, and instead they offer you those parts as upgrades (hopefully for more reasonable prices).

 

So we've got real TDP from there:

GTX 1070 - up to 120 watts
GTX 1080 - up to 190 watts

 

Glad to help, bro.

 

I think those are MXM right? MXM generally eats about 25W more than BGA from what I've been seeing.

 

The thing that stood out to me is factory overclocked cards! This could mean increased forms of heatsink for models and increased cards seeking compatibility and size for an aftermarket that is more robust, which also means growing pains for ability to upgrade for the next couple years... While having promise for the future!

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Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls... @Phoenix @D2 Ultima as well...

Spoiler: You heard and saw it here first...

*BOOM*

Spoiler: What are you waiting for... open me...

PASCAL & CLEVO P-SERIES REFRESH | Click Me Now, Big Boy!!!

OK, now this makes sense. Didn't understand what you meant at first, LOL. We're all set now.

 

That price difference between 1070 and 1080...damn.

 

I want a MSI because their laptops have 120hz panels. However, I was also looking at their gs73vr model, which comes only with a 1060. What do you guys say, $200 more for a 1070, but a 5 cm thick laptop, or the gs73vr with a 1060 which is 2cm thick?

 

I don't want to be the person who's sad but it's official " The MXM 3.0b is dead" confirmed, Volta / HBM2 will change everything that Pascal changed this is Ngreedia's strategy while AMD sits in the corner addicted to console crap and didn't even announce one GPU to the NB realm, they just surrendered everything to them and Ngreedia knows it thus this push and now people will flock to this like honeybees on that "VR" ready with 1060 & I don't want to be a victim to this ploy, overheating Pascal a.k.a Maxwell 2.0 with Inflated price fest.

No more DTRs for me. GGWP Clevo, MSI, nGreedia. RIP AMD.

Waiting for Clevo reviews.

 

YEEES!! Finally something good!!

 

I noticed that also. The race for cooling and stock overclocked cards is on!

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Ahh, this performance puts my notebook to shame....boy did I get burned bad lol. Time to try and sell this old junker and suck up my losses !

 

Yeah, And laptops without mmx graphics tend to be thin

 

It says they'll try to capture that market, but they aren't giving up on us. But remember, Asus did proprietary cards for awhile now. What you will see is everyone going their own way for their machines before a fight to standardize what is the best to pack everything in on the pcb. Think of the different lengths of desktop cards, coolers, etc. We just entered a time with no limits set by Nvidia except to keep performance within 10% of desktop cards and stock overclock, which msi, evga, etc. Usually do. We don't have a set pcb form factor, which sucks and msi seems to be trying to stick to, but this is only the start...

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Has anyone figured out which of the MSI models (or any others, for that matter) are 120Hz? I haven't spotted a single one yet.

 

And EVGA's expencive high end laptop is launched with only 1070? All too thin for 1080?

 

When that is the trend and fits their prior product line, that is their regular release. That does not mean they may not try to cannibalize if they can now make cards that resellers can interchange. Depends on mb white lists, design and cooling...

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here you have all the new lineup: http://event.msicomputer.com/nbpascal/

 

GT72VR

http://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-GT72VR-6RE-015US-Notebook-Review.171103.0.html

 

And will 1070 be the best performing graphics for the new Aw "Echo" line and compare with Evga? Mr. Azor need to upper the thicknes of their laptop models. A big change

 

We have to remember that the 1070 is the old x80m line now. It is still considered a performer. Just we have a new kid on the block, a true xx80 series that is desktop xx80 quality, which means they have to figure out New cooling solutions and what the market wants (sales of thicker 1080 machines, how much it cannibalizes 1070 machines, and how to balance production for the masses)...

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...and going by that there's no 120Hz on anything but some select models of GT TITANs... I thought the entire GS series not having it was a typo, looks like it's not. So MSI has kinda messed up on the screen front, no GSYNC, high hertz or OLED or anything interesting in the GS series (or GE from what I saw). Meanwhile ASUS has managed to stick it into a $1399 machine. It's almost like they collude to make sure no one makes the perfect machine

 

Aww, I was just gonna post these, you beat me to it just! These new Pascal laptop cards are very impressive, almost on par with their respective desktop models, just a few percent difference, hardly any difference. GTX 1080 is apparently overclockable now but without voltage manipulation, GTX 1070 & 1060 will be overclockable 'soon' apparently. I'd be interested to see what kind of overclocks can be achieved, I noticed there was thermal limited clock behaviour on some of the laptops, so I think good cooling is gonna be required to overclock AND see performance improvements - no point overclocking if the clocks are being thermally limited (as seen in GPUz screenshots).