Pascal: What do we know? Discussion, Latest News & Updates: 1000M Series GPU's

You should watch the videos, the problems have nothing to do with memory

The same goes for the 880m problems, nothing I recall about the issues had to do with memory.

The 880m GPU core was a 780m core OC'd at stock - further OC would generate more heat than most coolers could handle at the time.

The Asus G750JZ had a larger upgraded copper GPU cooler so it could handle the extra heat.

Unfortunately Asus used Intel Optimus, enabling the iGPU, which increased the load temps of the CPU by 10c, and Asus didn't upgrade the CPU cooler from the G750JH 780m model that the G750JZ was based on.

 

End of May, right?

 

I don't want to offend anyone, but If anybody is serious about buying anything other than Clevo, it's best to go to that brands sub forum and ask over there. There are many knowledgeable and experienced posters in those threads who don't post here as much.
Here chances are that anything other than Clevo will be hammered regardless of what it offers.
Again this is just my opinion. I have never bought any Clevo or even Alienware and still able to game on laptops since early 2000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

End of May/early June is what I've been hearing. That's desktop though. Rumors about mobile are all over the place.

 

Sorry man, no matter where you are on NBR these days the Clevo crew will trash whatever you talk about other than Clevo, everywhere.

It doesn't matter if you keep to your laptop brand threads, or discuss it in what should be a Nvidia focused thread - which should be hosted machine agnostic - even friendly and inclusive.

I don't let it bother me, give the Clevo guys a break, they are just really really happy. It's a heady feeling, being in what they perceive as a power position.

And, they want to keep that going, building on it by recruiting new supplicants.

It used to be Alienware, now it's Clevo. It's in some of their nature to beret what others have to make them feel better about what they have, and the movement washes others along with it.

It's a very human failing, easy to ignore, NBR background noise

 

Before owning my current machine, I didn't even know what a Clevo is. Now, it offers the best hardware no doubt about that (with the exception of the keyboard), and if you look at the system builders who make it, it's insane, Eurocom, Origin PC, Sager, Mythlogic, HIDevolution (EVOC), Origin PC (EON), XMG/Schenker, and there are like 10 other brands I've seen sometimes that I've never heard of in my life, the one Mr. @Papusan has for example, there is no denying the fact that it's the best, hence, it is getting a very large user base on these forums who will jump in to every thread with a discussion, be it a Clevo or other brand thread. I don't like this to be honest, I want all the other brands to give us better stuff, which means more options to us users. Now we are all at the mercy of what Clevo releases (or me at least).

All I want is a bigger Clevo like an 18" with a proper 17 or 18 inch keyboard, a Pascal GPU, and a desktop GPU/CPU

I know ASUS will probably be one of the first to launch a laptop with a 1080M, but if it weren't for their lower end CPUs and my bad experience with every ROG laptop I've owned before, I would've loved to buy one since their prices are awesome and so are the design of their laptops

 

Yes nobody is denying Clevo is best, we are only saying that for clevo to be best, others dont need to be trash.

Ironically few years back, this is exactly the same issue that Alienware fanboys used to have against Clevo. Ie. the world not only has to acknowledge that Alienware is best but also that clevo is trash and should not exist.

 

"Best" is subjective, and "Best" has many categories, each with it's own "Best", even within the same class of object.

"Best" for some is something that does what they want without too much time wasted in supporting the object itself.

"Best" for others gives them a thrill just owning the object of their desire, while making sure others know they don't have it.

"Best" can be debated endlessly between perspectives, and has little to do with the efficacy toward the purpose of an object for each individual at their own place in time.

Don't be convinced by those that want to enslave you to their way of thinking, which is the real agenda behind the collecting of souls under the "Only One is Best" deception.

They are in it for the Score, or the Money, or some other form of what is in their "Best" Interest.

Or, they're just happy happy people that want to share their joy of owning the "Best" with all.

 

You don't need to roll over and present your belly to the "attacker", stand up and tell them what you really believe!!

If you do believe Clevo is best, then never mind.

Clevo have many failings, like all other laptops, in some way or another, there is no best laptop for everyone.

And, that's what makes it fun. There is no One Best anything, they are all enjoyable in their own way. And, should be respected equally.

 

lol. This is not a fight and there is no attacker. I am just stating my opinion.

And yes I do believe that considering the price / performance ratio, clevo is the best choice at the moment (again my opinion!!).

However if i ignore price, MSI TITAN would be my choice, because even with all the issues with power and so on, it is the best performing laptop available. If Asus comes up with something comparable, I will be doubly excited because my current laptop is Asus and it has never faltered me.

Having said that even now, i dont see any other brand as "useless".Everything has a purpose and market.

PS: I think I have gone enough of topic, so before I get any notices from admins, I would like to state that this is my last post on this topic in this thread.

 

Please, play the violin some more

All I see over the years is people fanboying upgradable machines rather than disposables.

 

I may be in minority but i have always bought upgradable laptops but actually upgarded not even once!
This is because I dont like to spend money every two years. All my laptops lasted about 5-6 years and in every case by this time i never had option to upgrade. And I had to replace the laptop. Now you will say this is because i never bought a clevo, but i dont know if clevos from 2009 can have 980m in this or not. I have seen only alienware from that generation being upgraded to 980m.
Plus even if GPU/CPU can be updated, you miss out on things like newer ports, SSD and stuff.
So having the option to upgrade is definitely nice, its not one size fits all solution for everyone.
By the way my next laptop will also be upgradable, but lets see if I am able to use this feature oer not.

 

Dude, I thought the post before this was the last OT Clevo post?

Please don't encourage them, it starts a recording playback without an easy off switch

Maybe you two can re-direct to a Clevo discussion thread?

 

Apologies if my post came across as antagonistic. It was an observation. I'm brand agnostic and don't even own a Clevo. I'll fanboy any brand doing right by their customers.

 

How about we all just stop going off-topic and get back to Pascal discussion?

 

Yeah!

Whoever puts first a Pascal laptop on market is sure to make some good money!

Besides this, I am still thinking on Pascal. It is better than Titan at stock. Why would we need to further oc it in this situation ?

 

I wonder if legacy MXM based systems will support the pascal/polaris cards, would be really sweet if they did.

 

MSI quoted their SLI machine to be upgradeable and even sell a kit, I think they will, Unless we are talking about HBM, I guess G5X shouldn't be much for the 3.0b..

 

In the case of Clevo machines, the SM-A, ZM, DM machines should all be a drop in upgrade since Clevo went to full MXM support now. Doubtful for AMD cards, they have always been problematic.
Alienware machines never really care what you put in them, even bricked cards, but there's no guarantee that they will function as intended.
MSI will undoubtedly have an upgrade kit.
ASUS machines are never upgradeable.

Basically, as long as its a standard MXM card, most MXM machines should be capable of upgrading to it in theory but modded drivers and sBIOS and vBIOS issues could be required on a case by case basis.

If it isn't a standard MXM layout, you'll probably have to make heatsink mods or other adjustments that may not make it worth it.

 

wouldn't a VBIOS from Prema fix the need for installing modded drivers to make the driver detect is as a regular OEM card?

 

Yes it would. Most of Prema's work goes to partner machines these days though (not that I can blame Prema with how few actually donate for the work) so modded drivers could become a necessity for awhile.

 

I'd donate without thinking twice, I hate the idea of modding drivers everytime a new one is released, then having to disable driver signature enforcement, I am very leasy as you know

 

I've donated to him plenty of times personally and I would donate as well but many don't bother. They hit and run and then they complain when _______ doesn't work right.

 

me too, I've donated a few times in appreciation to his work and to get support from him, he usually replies 24/7, it's like he never sleeps looking after us all. I cannot imagine how Clevo laptops would be without him

 

Well hopefully he will be able to work some magic with Pascal for Clevo and AW users. MSI takes care of their own and everyone else is locked down.

I don't know if I /want/ Pascal in my laptop though... I'm probably going to get a 1070 if its sufficiently faster than my 780 Ti but I'm going to wait for better silicon before I think about putting Pascal in the laptop. It runs hot enough on its own...

 

I'm guessing (read: wild, baseless, pessimistic speculation) HBM2 will be the death of our MXM standard.

Hopefully a final card is released on this standard, GDDR5X based, as I have no desire to buy the 1080M kit MSI inevitably sells for my GT72. Need something a bit faster to justify spending the likely $800+ fee.

 

That's why I hope the desktop mobile 1080/1070 will somehow be shoehorned into fitting in as the upgrades for the 980m/970m.

There is going to be too much overlap in performance between the 980=>1080m, 980m=>1070m, and 970m=>1060m.

Something has to be squeezed out of all that overlap, and simplify the upgrade options, and make everyone anxious to spend the upgrade $.

1080/1070/1060 desktop mobile for everyone!

 

Judging by the size of the Mobile GTX 980, the odds of either of those full power cards fitting a standard MXM slot are.... slim. Best we'll get is a MXM 1070, downclocked to fit ~100W, and I'd gladly take it.

 

Hmm, maybe it is true for Clevo notebooks but for MSI laptops I always had a feeling it's vice versa.
As fo rnotebooks with Pascal... I am more than sure that all of them will be shipped at the same time which Nvidia sets, not sooner, not later.

 

We haven't seen the 1070 yet, but we know the die size is the same, the GDDR5 is going to be the same 8GB, and power is down only 30w from the 1080.

So maybe 1070 4+1 VRM instead of 1080 5+1 VRM? Would that be a 6-pin instead of an 8-pin connector?

It sounds like the 1080 component size will be almost exactly the component size of the 1070.

I would rather Nvidia lay's out the design such that either the 1080 or 1070 can be downclocked, tune for a lower power requirement, and we get to keep the same balance of element counts as on the desktop GPU's.

It's possible

 

The 880M throttled due to voltage issues with the memory, which lead to issues with heat as well. To overclock the 880M, you were forced to lower the voltage and increase frequencies to avoid heat throttling.

 

Ahhh, that's true, that makes for wasted memory bandwidth when you don't have enough power to feed both GPU cores and memory.

That's happened with almost every generation in one form or another, at least I remember tuning down memory speed to allow for more GPU core speed in many situations.

I needed to do that for 980m's too. I always tune for max GPU core speed while memory is at stock speed, and then reverse that to find the highest memory speed.

It's rare when I can run both at highest OC in a laptop

 

nvidia is releasing 1080 ti on mobile first this time. jk


also earlier about my overclocks, yeah 4.2ghz was on 1 core and 4 was 4.0ghz. i dont overclock my cpu anymore because i guess the thermal paste has worn off after 2 years or something, but now i get throttling even at stock speeds because of heat. same with my 880m. i dont overclock it at all, and it throttles due to heat sometimes at 94c with fans on max if im pushing it to the max. highest core clock i had was 1150mhz. i was like the 2nd or 3rd highest 880m score on 3d mark 11 at the time.

also, told you guys the 1080m would be titan x levels =)

im still curious though about 1070m performance and heat/power draw

 

Where did we see that the 1080m would be Titan X levels ? All I've seen so far is a 24 inch Asus laptop teaser with sli 980(according to the 3dmark pages )

 

im just saying 1080m would be within a 5 percent margin of titan x when overclocked. from an engineering perspective

 

What are you talking about? You can't control the voltage on mobile cards for the memory, just the core, and I was able to get 1188/5600 with my first pair. The heat was problematic and it was never figured out.

 

Probably. The question is if any laptop can handle two of them overclocked. I doubt P870DM-G can handle that

Its very much possible. NVIDIA did it in M5500m.

 

...and msi did it in their titan why wouldnt the p870dm be able to handle two 1080m in sli? @Mr. Fox has already teased us with a @Prema edition phoenix sporting two 980s in sli (and it was strongly hinted that overclocking is totally possible). i doubt that a 1080m will have anything higher than a 125W TDP, so thats totally controllable

im excited about @Ethrem's post concerning full mxm support from clevo. ill definitely upgrade my machine's gpu at least once during its minimum 4 yr lifetime (4yrs extended warranty), aside from intel xpoint/optane m.2 storage and 16gb sodimms (once they become more affordable in ddr3 flavour and also bump their speed to 2133 mhz )

the longer i own a machine, the more attached i grow to it, especially since it becomes more and more customized, thus "my baby", so to say

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

Now that MSI, Asus, and Clevo appear to be in the "big GPU SLI" market again, I'm hoping they realize that to compete with each other they are going to need to go big, or go home.

They will need an affordable Pascal SLI solution, but why not a 2 x 1080 SLI / LGA mobile desktop solution first?

That would stop everyone from waiting for that pinnacle product to be released, realize they can't afford it, and are free to get the more affordable 1080m SLI / BGA price point.

It could happen

Or, even better, they could price the ultimate LGA / 1080 SLI laptops for what we can all afford, and increase their market share - reducing costs further - creating profit - instead of taking it.

 

haha nice one i guess the binning of the chips stands in the way of such a move. nvidia will be focussed on saturating the desktop market first and to sell as many chips as humanly possible. only later on will they be able to save up a sufficient amount of high quality 1080 silicon to be used in a mobile form factor at lower wattages im guessing...all about the money bebe

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

Msi titan didnt have mxm 3.0b standard size 980.

I think 1080m OC would run very very hot. A full size 1080 might be fine but SLI 1080m OC might be asking for trouble.

Stock/modest OC might be ok though.

 

I am only suggesting to maintain the GPU elements balance, of course they will need to reduce the power to fit the cooling, giving us the maximum performance given the power and heat dissipation and power engineered in to the laptop... which could reduce or remove the possibility for OC'ing further.

Would you rather have a solution tuned for maximum performance - really touching the limits of the engineered cooling - rather than have them leave headroom for OC'ing?

We aren't conditioned for that are we?

The first things we want of the FE 1080 are better cooling, another power source, fatter VRM's, modded vbios's to remove the "safeties".

With the GT80S 980 SLI MSI gave us all they could give safely with a single 330w power supply, providing the fastest Graphics performance in any production laptop with a 2 x 980 mobile desktop SLI.

And, we weren't satisfied, some even sold or returned their GT80S 980 SLI laptops for something else... something slower that they could OC further.

That's a tough market for these vendors to satisfy

 

If you start touching the ceil of cooling potential at stock, you are absolutely asking for trouble and potential failures. You always leave margins for safety factor. You never push it to 100% at stock.

You need to account for different ambient temp/background noise level/dusty fans/slighty faulty heatsinks etc.

A perfect example of pushing the potential gone wrong is the infamous gtx 880m.

 

Well, if the engineer is professional enough to design and build in a safety buffer, stepping back from the maximum performance ceiling, shouldn't we be reasoning and sensible enough to leave that safety buffer alone, and not OC any further?

 

Well, depends whether you take the risk or not. That should be up to the end user to take the risk and deal with the consequence.

Engineers tend to build for the worst case scenario generally.

 

The "risk takers" are part of that worst case scenario.

We "risk takers" have been helpful finding most (hopefully all) of the total failure points, the fatal ones anyway.

Now the hardware has built in safeties, "outside" the ability to access from the OS, the BIOS, the vbios, and even from hardware hacking.

We have progressed to the point where the "risk takers" require their own buffer of performance to be designed in to the "worst case scenario", to allow them to hunt it down and release that free performance.

My point is a fine one, perhaps not visible yet, seeing as how the point is contained within the buffer you described as "Engineers tend to build for the worst case scenario".

It was only a point of view for discussion

 

That's good to know but for the uninitiated people like me, can you inform what exactly that mean? Does that mean that they are keeping vendor specific pins blank so a generic MXM card could be used or is it anything else?

 

Should I be expecting a laptop with 1080m in the next 2-3 months?