Pidge from Nvidia has asked that user experiencing problems with the 880m list them here..

I think the root cause points towards a bug in the coding and how the card manages its power as opposed to just brute force clocking the card higher

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Yeah 125W was given as the TDP needed run these 880Ms (base or boost, not sure).

Either way the 780M is already at 110W and pushing the limits of laptop cooling, so a 125W card is certainly not going to fare too well, at least not without substantial modding to the laptop's cooling.

 

So instead of threads about throttling issues we now get threads where people complain about temperatures in the 90s? lol

With a working vbios that runs the 880M @ 993MHz, what temperatures are we talking here (during gaming)?

Yeah they are undoubtly putting the notebook coolers to the test for the sake of profit....

 

The modded vbios will hit 93C boosting 993MHz but if you underclock to 954MHz, it drops to 87-88C. Still hot but not dangerously close to the throttle zone.

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Yikes.
So either way you won`t get your 993MHz you are looking for? Its like, have a throttling GPU and get temperatures in the 80s. Or have a working GPU but be prepared for temps in the 90s. Even with a beefy Clevo notebook with great cooling system like you are using. No wonder why pidge and Nvidia used a ton of time to "resolve" this issue. They probably knew the fix a long time ago, but knew what the fix would do.

Yeah I`m not impressed at all with the 880M
Call me sceptical but I`d be a little worried about longevity of the chip and the silicon, plus the user experience with a hot and loud notebook must suck. The underside below the GPUs are probably like superhot and I have a feeling that the fans go on pretty high RPM with temps in the 90s? :/

 

Wouldn't you know it. I have to make my purchase by the 12th to get the best price. Will they solve this in time lol

 

1. You can't fix broken silicon
2. The choice is either run 880Ms at 954 base clock all the time and be content with temps in the high 80s, or run them at full boost 993 and have them run dangerously close to the throttling temp of 93C
3. In short, 880M isn't even worth considering

 

It could also be that the stock vbios is pulling too much power, if they can tighten that, temps will go down. Probably wishful thinking but still.

I'm also still not entirely convinced that the modded vbios is functioning correctly so I will wait and see what nVidia comes up with.

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It's the massive amount of vRAM that causes the issues. I'm starting to think the 880M was an experiment or something, lol. No game would have ever used 8GB's of vRAM during the lifespan of the 880M, and NVIDIA had to have known this. They probably did not consider how detrimental it would be to gamers - more vRAM = more power = more heat (in that small form factor).

Let's just hope they've fixed the issue for Maxwell.

 

I'll give you points for creative thinking

 

Always.

You need to tell your employer (obv Nvidia) that people are sick of these GK104 rebrands. You guys should be quicker at getting new stuff out to the market.
GTX 860M was one hell of a surprise, but you kinda wrecked it with the soldered policy and no MXM availability. Not to mention no SLI compability. I`m sure Aorus would agree here, instead they are dealing with a neutered and choked out GK104 with a 128bit bus that also happens to run hot.

So many people waiting for the GM204 mobile chip, but instead you keep pushing out these 2,5 year old chips, and have to deal with bad publicity like this.
People with GTX 680M, GTX 780M, 7970M, 8970M, they are all waiting to buy the upcoming GCN 2.0/GM204 cards.

I think you guys are all too comfortable with your market share in the mobile space.


I bet you are just sitting there, GM204 chips already tested and ready, but still waiting for AMD to play their cards first (pun intended). Not surprising, you did the same in 2012 too.
Atleast offer the people here a preview. Or would that tank the 880M sales as well? Well you can`t go much lower in the interest scale for 880M anyway, people here are too familiar with the temps and performance vs 780M/OC 680M. Its 2 years and 2 months since 680M was announced. That is not funny

Unleash the kraken already.

 

I've pulled way over that many watts with 780M, which is also a 120W GPU... 100W should not be the limit. (Total system draw is between 550W and 600W with 780M SLI and 3920XM both heavily overclocked.) I would not be very pleased about that, because then they would suck in terms of performance... or, perform like a 100W GPU, which isn't good enough. And, I don't have any overheating problems with 780M either. I suspect whatever needs to be fixed in the vBIOS is causing overheating, which will also induce throttling. There are likely components other than the core that we have no idea how hot they are getting because there is no sensor for anything but the core. If they straighten out the root cause it probably won't have cooling problems any more.

Thank you... I appreciate the assistance in sorting this out. I might even entertain an upgrade to 880M SLI once these issues are resolved. I certainly hope they are. The 880M should run at least as good as 780M, if not better. It's a real shame that it doesn't... the thought of having 8GB of VRAM per GPU was pretty awesome until everyone found out the GPU severely malfunctioned.

 

But surely you don't game on those OC clocks that you use for benching? I suspect even with Alienware's cooling and Liquid Ultra a 780M pulling over 180W for an extended period of time would cause severe thermal issues. The main complaint is that a 125W card is going to cause issues during extended gaming sessions.

 

Nope, I don't game at ~1.165V and 1150/1500 with 780M SLI because there is no need to. The benefit of overclocks that high for anything other than benching is almost non-existent. But, playing games for hours on end with a 120W GPU running up to ~1035/1500, maxed out power/temp targets @ 1.050V never gets hot on my M18xR2 or the Alienware 18. Temps are generally in the 75-85°C range, depending on my ambient temps. I also game with my CPU (M18xR2 and Alienware 18) running at only 43x4. It runs plenty cool at that clock speed and running higher CPU clocks for games doesn't add any value to the experience. Even Crysis 3 and BF4 don't really benefit from more than 4.3GHz on CPU.

But, when I do want to bench and see some crazy high overclocked scores a 100W GPU isn't going to be all that exciting... that's simply not enough power to get insanely overclocked benchmark results. It needs to be 120-125W TDP for that. Otherwise, I no longer have an interest in the GPU as it cannot meet my performance expectations. Even GTX 680M will draw 120W+ per GPU when you start pushing it. Going back to 675M SLI and 7970M CF 100W performance levels would be totally unacceptable in my book.

I think the problems with thermals are part of whatever design mistakes need to be fixed more than the fact that these are 120W+ GPUs. Based on my experience with multiple 680M and 780M powered systems, I believe the uncontrolled temps and throttling are being driving by components and/or firmware rather than the TDP and core clocks.

 

As I said you can't fix broken silicon or design mistakes (not easily anyway), so let's hope it's just a firmware issue for the sake of all the 880M owners.

 

Hi
Gtx880m have twice as much VRAM as gtx780m. It makes the gtx 880m using 6-7 watts more than gtx780m. Could it be something that gtx880m gets warmer due to the new layout of VRAM? Gtx780m card is colder with about the same clock speed as the New 880 card. With a moderate overclocking on 780, then 780m is just as powerful as one 880 card. That is with a lower clock speed than the new card. Is there no 880 cards on the market with only 4gb of VRAM? Desktop Graphics Card (gtx780ti)'ve only 3gb VRAM. It could be that nvidia has problems with firmware due to the new layout of VRAM on the card

 

Interesting thread. While unfortunate that it happened in the first place, it looks like nVIDIA is at least attempting to fix the issue. Which is better than I expected partway through the thread. I remember Soldergate back in 2007 and 2008, when it did take a lawsuit for nVIDIA to admit there was a problem that was obvious to anyone looking at failure rates for GeForce 8M's and early GeForce 9M's at the time. Somehow my GeForce 8M is still working and has never failed, but nVIDIA's response to the lead-free solder issues was a significant factor in why I went with an AMD GPU for my desktop.

That was my thought, too. My desktop's Radeon 6870 has a 151W TDP, and that's not exactly an entry-level desktop GPU. They must have really improved the cooling over the years. According to Notebookcheck, the 8800M GTX was 35W, and that was the top-end card in 2007. I see even the Radeon 7970M has climbed to 100W now. Perhaps more of the cooling budget is allocated to GPUs now since desktop CPUs in laptops are less common? So we've got from a top-end of 130W desktop CPU + 2 * 35W 8800M GTX's to 57W CPU + 2 * 125W 880M's? Still a considerable increase in overall power (200W vs. 307W before other components), no wonder it's difficult to keep temperatures reasonable.

8 GB does seem like total overkill. I suppose I'm not totally surprised it's an option since I could've got 2 GB in late 2011 (and decided not to as that seemed like it would be pointless - so far, the right decision). But I fail to see the practical applications. Maybe in a desktop driving 4 monitors at 2560x1600 apiece. Perhaps in a specialized card powering a giant billboard, the type of market Matrox targeted in the mid-2000s. But in a laptop, it really seems like overkill with no point beyond being able to advertise bigger numbers for marketing purposes.

 

8GB is overkill for 1080p (and a marketing gimmick for the 880M) but definitely needed as we move to higher resolutions, especially given the abysmal optimization for PC games these days.

 

Some nut was able to max out the 6GB on his quad-SLI OC'ed Titans. By running Crysis 3 maxed out 8x MSAA @ 5160x2560 (3 x 30" portrait). Just saying.

6GB of VRAM Finally Used! - AnandTech Forums

 

Ok?

8GB for the 880M is overkill because by the time you're close to maxing out that 8GB of vRAM, you'll be looking at a slideshow.

 

Seriously? Did you seriously think I was being serious?

 

If that's the case, then it's by design, not by accident, NVidia would have known about this from Day 1. (Probably because they were concerned about over stressing the board, as well as concern about temperatures, leading to potential RMA's). I do agree with your points though.

 

Mr Fox, you're a special case & a super user, you've either been very lucky with the manufacturing tolerances of your heatsink mounting system and/or using liquid ultra and/or modded cooling pads and/or benching for short periods of time outside on your patio in Winter or in a walk in fridge! Your power draws are very impressive, but they are by no means achievable for the average user on the average system. You're a statistical outlier!

Laptop manufacturers/NVidia either need to beef up their cooling systems and/or limit the TDP of their GPUs to about 100W rather than 125W.
EDIT: (or rather design their GPUs to about 100W normal operation, with the flexibility to allow users to push further with overclocking if they want & can)

 

Well thats my laptop not coming back if that is the case.its already on thermal limit as it is.. if they up the TDP of the cards any more then surely its just gonna cause alot more heat that the laptop cant handle?

 

im confused like hell now,please explain me what do you mean with card running with 993mhz all the time and hitting 90c?do u mean with 993mhz with card while being @100% on usage graph?cause i play lot of demanding games and my 880m´s are running stable at 993 mhz without throtoling at 70c.

 

Your cards are weird... they don't even need 1v to run their clocks, you got really impressive specimens but the rest of us did not.

 

would love to see your benchmark scores for cards that are not throttling. because mine score 1k more in sli than when i run them as single cards...

 

Here's the screenshot he sent me...



Notice his voltage isn't even 1v and he's got 954MHz on both cards!

My cards go straight to 1v as soon as a game gets started and stay there (the master is 1.012v)...

 

sigh... thats stupid tbh. and there are people struggling to hit even 954 mhz :/

 

Yeah, I'm in the struggle camp... Sager has had my machine for a week now :|

 

scan were gonna replace my 880's then i saw the thing that was posted about TDP and the cards in sli not getting enough power. said not to bother and i will wait till the new cards come out. had laptop a month. actually used it for 4 hours....

 

Well Pidge said they're working on a fix.

The cooling in these machines should be adequate for 122W TDP cards to run in the mid 80s because the 780M is 110W and runs in the low to mid 70s.

I'm still hopeful it can be fixed.

 

actualy at 993 mhz on both cards im under 1v its like 0,980 or something like that.

my cards do throtle on benchmark fire strike only i did sky driver benchmark few min ago and i didnt have any throttle at all,cards were contantly at 993mhz and biggest temp was 78 but then fans kicked.this is what i scored

score click

i dont know why but only fire strike make my cards throttle, go to 700 mhz then to 993, but it happens twice on whole benchmark and it last like 15sec then again go to 993


idk what to think now,are my cards broken or not? :S

 

may sound like im being out of order here but i hope they cant fix it now. just had enough. and if im already hitting 85 after an hour of gaming and that was even with throttling whats it gonna be like with more power and full clocks? :/

 

what do you score in firestrike?

 

Well look at the post above yours. Lower voltage higher core lower temps. Sounds pretty damn ideal to me!

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this is fire strike click that throtle of 15sec was actualy loading screan in fire strike, i do get downclocks in actual benchmark where clocks go down to 700 and 780 for few sec,like 5x in whole benchmark and then go to 993mhz,cards are above 954mhz clock on 90% of time i could say in fire strike

 

i score 5k in that benchmark on my laptop.. so that goes to show my 880m's are broken lmao

 

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2563308/fs/2391760

My stock is faster than yours. :/

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also only score 12k in 3dmark 11 :/

 

Give them a chance to fix the problem they have admitted to finding before we go crazy... mistakes are made, nothing is perfect 100% of the time.

 

idk simply..i got extra programs and stuff to be able to see temps,clocks etc while doing benchmark and to see em ingame,its showing 993mhz 90% of time in fire strike. i didnt try benchmark with 1 card only so no idea how would perform

 

Well that was a stock vbios I had and my graphics score was 8.8% higher.

What about 3dmark 11? I don't have a stock skydiver

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i have only 3dmark i tryed to get some other but it always contained virus inside so i gaved up looking for clean install of other benchmark programs

 

Grab 3dmark 11 and run it. Go to Futuremark.com and get it there or I think you can even get it in steam.

I don't have my machine so I can only compare with old results. If you want to see how sky diver *should* work, check this out

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/sd/2162337/sd/2281270

That's with the BIOS mod forcing stock boost

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i think u scored more then me cause u have stronger CPU,you must count that in also,ur it extreme edition and mine aint.anyhow this is 3dmark 11 click

edit: i just installed it didnt change any option within 3dmark 11,since i didnt buy full version it was runing at 1280x720

 

You always look at the graphics score as that is not really affected by the CPU.

My edition doesn't matter, I just run base settings which are shown at the bottom.

Here's the comparison with 3dmark 11

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/8595850/3dm11/8529529

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yes ,better when locked,on 3dmark 11 mine throtle a lot worse then on 3d mark only thing i didnt tryed yet is that costom bios that locks clock on how much 993 or 954?im curious what temps i would have but cant bother..for what i use this cards i wont notice difference =)

 

The only one I shared with the modded results was the sky diver and that's just because I don't have one that wasn't modified. The rest are all stock vbios. Something weird is happening with graphics score that low if you say it's not throttling.

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Here's comparison with my 780 Ti with stock vbios, notice that the 880s are slightly faster graphics score than a single superclocked Ti. Your results are under a 780 Ti.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/8595898/3dm11/8529529

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Just checking here... but did you go into control panel and make sure your power settings are on high performance? Because power saver and balanced will kill your scores.