Ray tracing another BS

The only trouble with so many pushing back on the idiotic high prices for new RTX GPUs means the price of the last gen cards stays way too high. I was going to buck the system, say no to RTX madness, and go with another 1080 Ti for SLI (which I have always loved and missed for the last year... yes, I am a bencher first, gamer second, and SLI still rocks for benching). I've been a dual GPU fanboy since around 2006 and almost every system I have owned since then (primarily laptops) have been CrossFried or SLI'd. I intended to go SLI on my desktop all along, then the bitcoin mining nonsense started and that shot my plans down the tube, LOL.

Unfortunately, I tried repeatedly (this month) to bid on 1080 Ti SC2 and FTW cards for over a week and lost every auction (5 or 6) because people are paying the same price for 1080 Ti cards that they were when brand new. I tried making offers and everyone laughed and scoffed at my "what it is actually worth" offers for their used GPUs. And, the new leftover stock that is available are selling for more than a new 1080 Ti used to sell for. The people selling those don't even acknowledge offers for less than what they want because all they need to do is wait for an idiot to buy their obsolete product for the full original price or more.

So, that's just stupid. I finally gave up and ordered a new EVGA 2080 Ti XC2 Ultra Gaming. I did not want to do that... at all... but, I'm just not interested in paying new GPU prices for used GPUs, LOL.

The gaming and high-end computing industry is just all messed up right now. Hopefully, it's not going to stay this way.

And, the only alternative to buying an overpriced GeFarts GPUs just sucks no matter how you want to slice it. Higher power draw, higher temperatures, lower performance, buggy behavior and almost no overclocking headroom are just not good trade-offs for lower prices.

 

Most AMD GPU users know RTSS is buggy as hell on Radeons than nvidia(On Latest nvidia driver some configs have issues). Jay2cents should have used CAM or FRAPS or even CustomDX11/12 support and stealth support in RTSS for Radeons to work correctly. He could have used Radeon Overlay instead of 3rd party overlay.
Mr. Fox I had same issue when I was gaming side by side on BGAs including my AW 15 980M vs my sister's laptop with m330 with 4GB RAM and 2GB VRAM. I was playing Sleeping Dogs Def. edition with High settings at 1080p on 980m and 720p on 330m and AMD actually had higher FPS(at 45-47) than 980M(30-40) even after switching to 720p on 980M. At that time I thought my 980M is dead. Then I joined here to find the real issue was Nvidia Swiss Cheese driver was the issue and reverted the driver to way old version to get the advertised FPS(Above 60 on Ultra at 1080p).
I will say RTSS overlay has cut the FPS of nvidia cards in some games.
I will switch to AMD Radeons even though they won't hold a candle to nvidia because I hate crappy driver updates breaking my games,apps and my display every damn time. For me stability and quality of driver matter. I don't care about TDP and power efficiency at all since I will be pushing them anyway to insane amounts. When I working on something I need the cards to perform like advertised even after multiple driver updates and product launches.

 

The 1080ti's were available for a long time before now for much less, I suggested to start buying them months ago.

There are BuyItNow " EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2 GAMING" for around $600, and there are lots of "BuyItNow" 1080ti's in the $400-$650 range. You can pay less or more depending on how set you are on getting the EVGA brand.

Either way the 1080ti's @ $400-$600 are all going for less than the $1300-$1800 I've seen the 2080ti's going for recently.

I'd suggest to keep watching for the sub-$500 1080ti BuyItNow gems, they go quickly though you can still get them even now as evidenced by the large number of recent 1080ti SOLD items for good prices. ( click link).

About 300 sub-$500 1080ti's SOLD in the last 30 days (average of about 10 per day), and almost 3000 $400-$650 1080ti's SOLD in the last 30 days (average of about 100 per day).

No need to waste money on inflated Holiday pricing on the already overpriced RTX GPU's when you can get a nice used 10 Series GTX GPU instead.

 

There are hundreds of people working at RTG, those that left and are leaving aren't abnormal movements in an ever active job market in the Silicon Valley area. AMD Radeon Group is still releasing product and I wouldn't worry about them being slowed down at all by a long overdue retirement in management + a few marketing guys.

Also, I wouldn't put much into the Intel additions, those are few of hundreds there too, it's nice to see good people continuing their careers, but Intel is a behemoth that isn't going to even register the difference of a couple of more hoopy froods.

AMD just released another generational software upgrade with the Adrenaline 2019 release, with more automation and expansion of features that work better than Nvidia's without requiring Telemetry and a Login to use.

The Vega 56 / 64 + RX580 / 590 are still good deals for their tier of performance, and can get tuned for good performance with lower than out of the box power draw.

Next year, who knows when, the lower power and higher clock 7nm releases will hopefully continue to drive down price for performance, and raise the tiers a level or two higher.

Not many people buy >$500 GPU's, most much lower in cost. Let Nvidia gouge the unwary and AMD can deliver the 90% solution. Hopefully people will give AMD a chance and buy them instead of wearing Nvidia blinders.

Recently upgraded my old GTX 1060 3GB to a RX 590 and it works perfectly
Submitted 17 hours ago by BunnyBoyo 246 comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a70z86/recently_upgraded_my_old_gtx_1060_3gb_to_a_rx_590/

BunnyBoyo[ S] 116 points 15 hours ago
"The 590 helps me a lot with rendering work of giant structures which I need to do for university, it also cost me 190€ which in comparison to a 1070 is super cheap - at least here because the 1070 costs around 410€"

Some people in that thread didn't get the OP's intent, upgrade VRAM for a low price - they kept wanting him to spend $hundreds more and get a Vega/1080/1070ti/1070 - he saved a lot of money and got the performance he needed. He didn't have to spend tons of $ to do his work or game and resisted blowing cash unnecessarily due to peer pressure.

 

I don't remember saying that at all! I was complaining about the tools and methods used by Jayz2cents. It seems he is used to nvidia for better gameplay.

 

Battlefield V NVIDIA Ray Tracing RTX 2070 Performance
Brent Justice, Monday , December 17, 2018
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/17/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2070_performance/10

"The Bottom Line
Considering we are near the top-end of RTX 2070 performance, we feel let down by the NVIDIA's ray tracing performance in Battlefield V. Even though ray tracing performance has improved with the latest patch, the RTX 2070 is simply underpowered for ray tracing in this Battlefield V.

There is simply no way 1440p is going to be playable with any level of NVIDIA ray tracing. Only at 1080p, is Low and Medium levels of ray tracing playable in multiplayer Battlefield V. Even then, the RTX 2070 is walking the line of playability that we think most gamers expect.

If you prefer a solid 60FPS+, you won’t get that with NVIDIA ray tracing enabled in Battlefield V, even at the Low setting. If you want that 60FPS+ performance, you are going to want to turn NVIDIA ray tracing off, and leave DX12 behind and use DX11.

Who wants to buy a $630 video card, and just barely play at respectable performance levels at 1080p? That seems like a waste to us.

The visual impact in Battlefield V isn’t great enough to justify the large drop in resolution and performance you must sacrifice with NVIDIA's ray tracing with the RTX 2070 video card.

The bottom line is this; the GeForce RTX 2070 is underpowered for NVIDIA ray tracing in Battlefield V."

 

That whole rtx stuff is just a scam, a gta iv mod from 2013 with ambient occlusion raytracing.

Has better lightfx than bf v id say.

 

Oh I totally agree. Price to perf, ATi is the choice, hands down. But for raw performance, they've been out of the game since 2012/2013. The Hawaii XT was their last great architecture. The 290x was an absolutely baller card, and the 295x2 was just more of it.

After that though, was when it all went down hill. They fell so far behind nGreedia when the 10 series came out, they became the "mid tier" gaming platform. And while that's where probably a solid 65% of the gamer base lives, for the remaining 35% of us, it isn't good enough.

That isn't to get down on ATi cards at all. They're typically great. But for suckers like me that want the best shinies I can squeeze, nVidia has been the only option for the last 4 years.

I want AMD/ATi to make a storm of a comeback. Their company deserves it. After Intel violated antitrust laws, they really screwed AMD over for a long time. Their CPU segment was definitely affected more than their GPU, but that took AMD years to recover from.

I may be a blue/green teamer right now, but that's only because I wanted the top of the line stuff. I'm definitely itching to bleed red though, where the prices are reasonable, and at least one half of the performance is good. I'd love for both sides to be top dog again. Here's hoping the 7nm Navi cards really step the game up.

 

I like your longer post too

"Cpu based realtime raytracing has been around a long time,
even in 2008"

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...2008-cpu-raytracer-outperforms-2080ti.826467/

 

Forgot to show what nvidia showed what rtx can do in 2018 for Investors at audi.
Cpu realtime raytrace 2008

Nvidia rtx in nvlink 2018

seeing the comparison, i mean in an us court in front of a jury they must come to the conclusion that this was a preplanned scam and there was no effort or even the intension there to deliver what they advertised.

 

You're comparing a software-only thing to a hardware solution. While the end result may have some aesthetic similarities, they are not the same thing.

Some people did not purchase an RTX 2080 Ti for ray tracing. I did not. I actually don't really care much about that. I purchased it for GDDR6 bandwidth, higher core clock, higher memory clock and higher benchmark scores, and higher frame rates in games. The MSRP is ~30% higher than any of us would like it to be, but the performance increase has been shown to be about 30% more than 1080 Ti, so it's hard to argue that it constitutes unfairness. But, I will be the first to admit (and complain) that the pricing sucks and feels like highway robbery even though the math is there. Unfortunately, it looks like desktop GeFarts cards are price-matching laptop MXM cards now. It will be interesting to see how ludicrous RTX mobile is going to cost. Imagine there will be even more complaining once mobile RTX turds "hit the fan" LOL.

I don't see any basis for legal action so far, other than maybe the 'Space Invaders' artifacts and dying GPUs for those who got unlucky with a defective card - but it's not prevalent enough for that as much as the media hype from the talking heads portray it to be. And, as long as they are being replaced under warranty, there is no basis for legal action in that regard.

Nobody is being forced at gunpoint to buy an RTX card and nobody should feel like they cannot live without ray tracing hardware support. A GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti is more than enough for most gaming needs unless one is hell bent on gaming in 4K. It is undeniable that the RTX 2080 Ti is better suited for that purpose.

The idea of pickup up a used 1080 Ti for half price is a great one, but not just any 1080 Ti was going to serve my purpose. Overpaying for a used GPU is not conceptually different than overpaying for a new GPU. I think paying 70-80% of the original MSRP for an obsolete 2 year old GPU, especially if it was used 2 years, rode hard and put up wet, is not any worse (to me) than paying 30% too much for a next generation GPU. I guess you have to pick your poison. I would have been more than happy (and tried) to get a second 1080 Ti SC2 to match what I have, then mod it like my current GPU... but not for $600. That's nuts. Plus, I would have either needed to buy two new matching water blocks or buy one that doesn't match my current Hydro Copper block and have an aesthetically goofy system that looks like it was built from spare parts. The only water block that I could find for sale (new or used) to match mine was a broken Hydro Copper block for sale on eBay, so that $600 would become $900 including two new water blocks, and possibly have little or no warranty left on the GPU. I found 1080 Ti Hydro Copper GPUs for sale on eBay for about $800, which is equally retarded even though that would be an exact match to what I have now. Kind of like buying a used late model car with high miles, worn out tires and brakes and a dented quarter panel, with little or no warranty left, in order to save 20-30% on the cost of a new car doesn't make good sense.

 

"When your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?"
- 2018, A True Prophet

 

Response to Tom's Hardware's Insane "Just Buy It" Post [RTX 2080] - "Is this Satire!??"
Gamers Nexus
Published on Aug 24, 2018
Tom's Hardware published an article of herculean stupidity that pertained to the idea of pre-ordering based on nothing more than promises.

Spoiler: Insanity from Tom's...

We're still not sure what Tom's Hardware was going for with its "Just Buy It" article ( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvi...), but we figured we'd do our best to interpret and respond to the piece. The Tom's article is referencing pricing concerns from users relating to the new NVIDIA RTX video cards, including the RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 Ti, which have higher prices relative to previous same-name products. We're not saying to buy or not buy the RTX cards (unlike Tom's), but are commenting on the actual insanity contained within the Tom's Hardware article by their for-now Editor-in-Chief.

When your whole life flashes before your eyes...
submitted 3 months ago by bmw2002guy
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/9a5upa/when_your_whole_life_flashes_before_your_eyes/

RagnarThaRed 186 points 3 months ago
"I could not stop laughing at that part. Yes Toms Hardware, ray tracing will be what I think about as I die, not friends, not family, but those sweet sweet reflections and shadows."

Good Times...

 

Yeah that was truly fun watching reactions to that horrible story.

 

It s not the same thats right, but this was 10 years ago non hw accelerated, and what nvidia delivered in 2018 is just worse quality wise my point is the rtx raytracing should have looked at worse at least 10x times that good with no performance impact. look at a game from 1990 and 2000 or 2000 and 2010.
Thats should have been at minimum the difference to even call this a feature.

If the price was good nobody would have had a problem i would have been the first to say well done but it isnt. Maybe not at gunpoint but they are the major duopolist so there is not much of a choice anyways.

 

You might be over thinking this a bit.

The $600 1080ti you want against the $1500 2080ti you got makes the 2080ti 2.5x more expensive, for a comparatively small performance boost.

Neither of them have water blocks, so to put one on either would require similar additional expense.

So the 2080ti is still more expensive, by 2.5x...for a meager uplift in performance, and likely less OC upside.

" Nobody is being forced at gunpoint to buy an RTX card and nobody should feel like they cannot live without... a 2080ti..."

But, you did feel that way so you bought a 2080ti, and so you were in effect forced at "none"-point (you don't get "none" if'n ya don't buy) to buy an Nvidia RTX 2080ti card at 2x+ what it is worth.

Nvidia RTX sucks.

 

Nope, I spent a bit less than $1500 including the water block. Everything high end and awesome sucks and costs more than it's worth today. I'm just not willing to spend $600 for a obsolete matching second-hand $800 GPU of unknown experience and uncertain bin quality, partially used up warranty (or potentially no warranty) and then adding another $175 to that for a water block (or $350 for two if I want both to match aesthetically). By the time I do that I am only like $400 away from what I paid for the latest product with a full warranty and roughly 30% performance increase.

You also have to remember that I am not what some like to call a "hardcore gamer" and if I were then I would have everything I need already with my modded GTX 1080 Ti. But, that's not me... my main hobby is overclocked benching. Both hobbies require spending money. Instead of spending money on software (games) I am spending it on hardware. If I don't do that, I make no progress. I'm maxed out on what I can do with my GPU, as it has reached its functional limit. It's a lot cheaper than muscle cars, street rods, European sports cars, motorcycles, ATVs, boats or gun collecting. I love all those things, but they're outside of my reach financially. So, I really don't see the problem. But, where we agree is the price of RTX cards SUCK... big time. So does the price of all those other things I mentioned, including the latest popular games. Paying $60 and up for any game title is just downright idiotic (in my opinion). Different people place value on different things based on what they care about the most. It's all stuff, and it's all gonna burn in the end. Can't take any of it with you when you go.

Everything, everywhere, is overpriced because people that want things are happy to overpay to get them. That really screws things up for those that are unwilling, or do so begrudgingly. Since gaming is my secondary hobby and not something I spend lots of time doing, I'm good with waiting for the price to drop to $20 or less on a title that I want, even it if takes a year or two. I'm totally fine with that because it's just not that important to me to have it early. It will own it forever since digital distribution software products don't wear out. People that don't need a new GPU can apply the same approach to the hardware as I do to buying games. Just wait and buy it later for less. Too bad that DRM filth makes buying used games a problem. I own enough games that I don't care anything about that I could probably just about pay for a RTX card if I could sell them from my Steam, Origin and Uplay game libraries.

 

To be fair I've bought motorcycles for less than some people here spend on their builds.

 

A new one? If I were going to purchase the kind of bike I would want, it would be far more expensive than any computer I would build for myself. Not saying I couldn't find a way spend more on a computer build if I had the financial resources, but I can build (and have built) the kind of computer I want that is within my means. I cannot afford to buy whatever kind of bike or car I want to own within my means. Or, to put it another way, I am not willing to incur the kind of debt that would require. I'd like to retire sometime in the next 15 years or so, and that would throw a real monkey wrench into the works, LOL.

https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/supersport/models/2019/yzf-r1m

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/Hayabusa/2019/GSX1300R.aspx

 

We have slightly different taste, though that R1 is a very pretty machine. While my daily was similar in cost to the busa (Speed Triple), I have a soft spot for old UJMs and low displacement trail bikes, both of which can be had much cheaper. Works well with your comment about use though. Getting a bike for the track numbers (benchmarking) costs a lot more, but just for fun around town, stoplight dashing, general hooliganism (gaming)you don't need to spend nearly as much. And bikes even have their own version of BGA for you to hate...DCT.

 

Titan RTX is another Nvidia flop.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-115#post-10836174

 

noVideo digging themselves to China forgetting there is a huge #### mantlet in their way, meanwhile AMD preparing Navi, cheap GPU's with 1080 Ti performance to the masses, LOL
If only AMD would release high end GPU like Vega on MXM but it still remain to be seen if RTX on MXM is even real.

 

It is, but no "Ti" version in the works, and the RTX 2080 (N) probably won't be identical specs and performance to the desktop RTX 2080 GPU.

 

If the 2080 in full makes it to MXM / mobile, that's the same performance as the last generation 1080ti, so.... that's something - if it happens. Otherwise the mobile RTX GPU's will be less / same performance as last generation + the cost burden of RTX stank.

 

If the information I have been given is accurate, at least for Clevo, the RTX 2080 will only cost around $100-150 more than the Clevo GTX 1080, so that's not as much of a price increase as the desktop shaft-o-rama. But, those were already as expensive as a reference version of a desktop RTX 2080 Ti. So, I don't want to make it sound like a great deal... it's not. They were already WAY too expensive. Mobile always has been an extremely poor value when it comes to GPU pricing and I think all the arguments that it costs more to produce the laptop parts is pure baloney. Anyone that purchased a new laptop with 1080 MXM card has no basis for complaining about RTX 2080/2080 Ti prices, as that would be utterly hypocritical. They already paid that much.

 

Well, MXM GTX GPU's already have the "shaft" built in in the form of the Nvidia tax of charging 2x-3x the MSRP of the same desktop GPU.

So that extra $200 on top of the MXM "shaft" for an RTX sku is to remind us who's boss.

And, I assume the 2080 MXM "upgrade" price for already purchased laptops will be much higher than the generational differential cost for a new build to order choice. Probably impossible to find, raising the single quantity spot price even higher.

It's fun to imagine a real 1080ti in a laptop even so.

 

So we receive cut down versions, the die sizes are already pretty ridicules MUCH larger than the Vega 56 not taking the HBM memory into consideration, so maybe we receive custom mobile variant like the 9xx series? Pretty sad, and with a price increase even, just a big insult to gamers LOL although I saw you said price increase for 2080 is not much matter but you have to remember some companies sell "cheapo" gaming laptops with BGA 1080, and by cheap I mean cheaper than they otherwise would be for a branded one.

 

how can you complain.....1080ti in a laptop is crazy

 

There is no reason to cut down the MXM version of the RTX 2080 imo. The platform can easily handle the 215W TDP as long as adequate cooling and a solid VRM are provided. If they do it will not be worth buying imo, better off keeping a 1080 and waiting for the next gen cards.

 

There’s a rumor of Nvidia releasing these new GPU’s without the RT features.

https://videocardz.com/79425/exprev...launch-geforce-gtx-11-series-gtx-1160-planned

I’d be OK with that since while RT is a nice addition but it’s not ready for prime time yet because of its performance hit in gaming.

 

I don't really have any need for RT, so this excites me, but I'll wait until I hear back on the -70/-80/-80ti and if they would go ahead with those or just leave them in the RTX range only.

 

Funny you should mention that. I just posted this in another thread.

 

Highly doubt we will see a 1170,1180,1180ti. I have the 2080ti FTW3 and honestly I never bought it for RT. I just enjoy those juicy 1440p frames on my PG279Q. Its a crazy powerful card.

 

That's two now, you guys are really tempting me to get one. Especially since you're pretty much talking about my ideal display specs. (27"/144+Hz/2560x1440)

 

I think this is what we're going to see happen in the notebook space. Maybe ultra-high-end DTRs will have a ray-tracing-capable GPU, but the majority of the market will get little more than faster versions of Pascal. That'll be fine if you're looking to upgrade from Maxwell or earlier, but there will be little reason to change if you already have a 10-series system.

 

Its a beautiful thing! Now I just want a 2080 17” laptop with a 144hz 1440p thin bezel display. Bring on CES!

 

And then ASUS goes and shows off a 240Hz laptop. What times we live in.

 

News Corner | Nvidia Pascal Gets Ray Tracing, Crytek Demos Ray-Tracing on Vega 56
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Mar 22, 2019

Spoiler: News Topics Index + Sources

00:26 - Nvidia Brings DXR to Pascal
03:48 - Crytek Ray Tracing Demo on Vega 56
06:15 - New Intel Graphics Command Center
07:37 - Microsoft Introduces Variable Rate Shading to DX12
08:59 - Loads More Epic Games Store Exclusives Are Coming
10:02 - HP Introduces New Laptops with Ryzen APUs

Sources:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/...
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/n...
https://www.cryengine.com/news/crytek...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14117/...
https://techreport.com/news/34521/mic...
https://www.techpowerup.com/253911/qu...
https://www.techpowerup.com/253910/th...
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-says-itl...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14103/...

TheDemocrab 3 hours ago
"At this stage, I've stopped caring because it's become a gimmick and even cards made for it aren't really doing raytracing properly so much as a very cut down version that actually runs real time."

Forza 2 hours ago
"Is this an Nvidia ploy to show us that our Pascal cards are no longer powerful enough? Not falling for it, don't need ray tracing."

Mouwcat 3 hours ago
"Im sorry but ray tracing is a very underwhelming effect as of right now, its not worth the price of entry nor the performance hit, no amount of marketing or expanding of availability will get me to care"

 

There has been a large delta in results between new owners and review results for laptop and desktop GPU's, so here's TechYesCity trying to figure out:

Are Tech Reviewers getting sent GOLDEN SAMPLE RTX Cards....? Possibly.... (Investigation)
Tech YES City
Summary Starting @ 04:27
Published on Mar 21, 2019
After coming off the back of my RTX 2060 vs RTX 2070 Comparison, others were saying the numbers were off and the RTX 2060 OC should match an RTX 2070. Though after checking out all the samples on hand here, I found out some alarming differences that could indeed explain the variances that you are seeing between each reviewer out there. The Culprit? GPU Boost 4.0, though it's not necessarily a bad thing for the customer, more so a bad thing for testing a single card and drawing a conclusion from it. Here's why.

 

And I thought that's like a hardware feature. Doesn't seem to be the case if they are bringing it to Pascal GPUs through a driver update. Let alone the fact that Pascal GPUs cannot give good FPS while tracing is on if even the RTX GPUs can barely do it.

To me, the RTX GPUs after a 3 year long wait for a better GPU are simply a slightly overclocked GTX GPU

 

That sums it up nicely.

Besides the now *3* game Nvidia featured RTX gaming bundle included if you buy a new RTX GPU, the RTX features are of no use for 50% of the RTX GPU dies.

The AMD Vega 56 running real-time Crytek "ray-tracing" + "global illumination" bodes well for game engines implementing those enhanced "next generation" game features, now without Nvidia's proprietary RTX GPU acceleration.

Interestingly the Crytek demo did *both* RT "reflections" and RT "global illumination" at the same time, which hasn't been done yet by any of the 3 RTX game implementations.

The 3 RTX feature games only implement 1/3 of the RT feature set each, either "reflections" or "global illumination" or "shadows", so now that all 3 games are released, that actually only adds up to 1 game's worth of all 3 RT features.

Considering that AMD provides the APU / GPU / CPU for Xbox and Playstation, and those are about 50% of the gaming market - and the source for console to PC game ports, it's a good thing that real-time RT features can be implemented in games without Nvidia's proprietary RTX technology.

Maybe now there really will be a revolution in games using Real-Time Ray-tracing.

 

Can you elaborate more on this? I thought the bundled games are what's nVIDIA is using to show their Ray Tracing technology since they support it?

 

There are only 3 full games - AAA game releases - that implement at least 1 RTX feature, reflections(BFV), global illumination (Metro Exodus), and shadows (Tomb Raider).

There are no games (Zero) that implement all of the RT features in one game, there isn't enough power even with the 2080ti to drive real time RT for all 3 RT features.

Crytek uses another software engine implementation to do Global Illumination + Voxel based Ray-tracing to implement both in real-time in 1 "game" / demo in this case, providing RT real-time features on an AMD Vega 56 4k@30fps. It would run better on a Vega VII 7nm GPU, and likely even better on future 7nm GPU's, all without RTX proprietary features.

Nvidia needed to respond, as right now all GTX GPU's are locked out of accessing DXR in DX12 - the RT features Microsoft provides.

The stated idea behind Nvidia providing RTX features in their 2xxx GPU generation - using 50% of the die real-estate to add the RTX / Tensor acceleration, was to provide developers with an installed base of RTX feature ready GPU's to drive development of games with RTX features.

As it turns out Nvidia RTX GPU's didn't standardize their RTX feature acceleration. The 2080ti has much higher RTX potential than say a 2060, or worse a laptop Max-Q RTX GPU.

The developers would need to code to the lowest performance RTX GPU for RT features to work on the lowest performance RTX GPU.

RT feature game engine implementations like Crytek's are needed for development of games for the next generation Microsoft Xbox + Sony Playstation - as they won't have Nvidia RTX proprietary hardware - AMD rumored to be providing Zen 2 + Vega / Navi GPU's (APU's) on 7nm for the next gen consoles.

The 3 Games coded for RTX GPU's already run slowly on RTX GPU's and are expected to run even slower on GTX GPU's, but the game engine RT implementations like Crytek's might run as well on GTX GPU's as shown running on AMD's Vega 56.

I think Nvidia needed to enable DXR on GTX GPU's - not for the 3 RTX games - but instead to create an installed base for Console ports of games with RT features to PC's, otherwise AMD RX Vega (RX 5xx?) GPU's with DXR enabled would own that whole market - Console games with RT and PC ports of Console games with RT.

It's early days for the RT transition in game development, and a cheaper GPU alternative can win out in the end as the target for minimum requirements for RT in games, as that will provide the largest installed base for PC for developers to target - to sell the largest quantity of games.

RTX GPU's have priced themselves out of that target market.

 

Is NVIDIA’s RTX in Metro Exodus worth it? | Upscaled
Engadget
Published on Mar 23, 2019
Metro Exodus certainly is a gorgeous game, never has a pack of hairy rat monsters been so lovingly rendered. It’s also the first game to use ray-tracing for global illumination. So is Exodus the ray-tracing wonderland of our dreams? After a few hours with the game, I can safely say:… sort of?

 

Think you need RTX for ray tracing? This CryEngine demo convinced me otherwise
AMD gamers rejoice! Real-time ray tracing for Radeon could be in the cards after all.
By Gabe Carey 5 days ago
https://www.pcgamer.com/think-you-n...g-this-cryengine-demo-convinced-me-otherwise/

""This demo runs on most mainstream, contemporary AMD and Nvidia GPUs," reads the introductory text in a new demo video released by Crytek.

What follows is a reel of Blade Runner-inspired footage, a science fiction infusion of neon lights bouncing off the most reflective surfaces imaginable: condensating windows, shattered mirrors, empty bullet shells rusting in shallow puddles of rain. A glistening metal drone whisps through the drizzling night sky.

The demonstration, titled "Neon Noir," is rendered entirely in real-time and is designed to flaunt the effects of ray tracing across multiple video cards and APIs. In the video, Crytek says, all two minutes and three seconds shown of the demo are running on an AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 graphics card. And while we consider that GPU one of the best graphics cards you can buy right now, it's well established that real-time ray tracing is a feat only Nvidia's RTX cards can accomplish at reasonable framerates. Or so we thought.

Spoiler: More...

Neon Noir was, according to its creator, developed using a modified version of CryEngine 5.5. Leveraging an existing facet of the engine called "Total Illumination," it works by removing some of the notorious pain points of the development process, such as pre-baked cube maps and local screen space reflections, particularly when creating "smooth surfaces" (windows, mirrors, metal drones, etc.). In other words, its aim is to streamline the implementation of ray tracing for game developers.

Until now, ray tracing—at least in the context of gaming—has hinged on the RT cores found exclusively in the Green Team's pricey, Turing architecture-based GeForce 20 series cards released last September. But now, thanks to a custom-fitted CryEngine 5, it seems it is possible to bring similar functionality over to AMD and pre-Turing Nvidia systems alike. That is, so long as they boast compatibility with DirectX 12 and Vulkan, the two APIs supported by Neon Noir.

To be clear, in theory any DX12-enabled GPU that has drivers with DXR support should be able to run DXR games with ray tracing enabled (currently Battlefield 5, Metro Exodus, as well as 3DMark Port Royal). The problem: neither AMD nor Nvidia have released such drivers so far, with the RTX series being the only option. Crytek may be leveraging unreleased drivers, or it may have taken a different approach to implementing ray tracing. Either way, it works.

Though older components may struggle to keep up with a demo like this due to their weaker DX12 and Vulkan rapport, the demo makes a compelling case for buying an AMD card in 2019. In our review of the AMD Radeon VII, the Red Team's first graphics card based on the 7nm fabrication process, we lamented its lack of features, specifically pointing out the glaring absence of ray tracing. However, as Crytek has now proven, that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

In glorious 4K UHD, the CryEngine trailblazer, famed agitator of gaming PCs circa 2007, Crytek is exhibiting a ray tracing solution it deems "both API and hardware agnostic." No longer tying you to the powerful but exorbitant GeForce RTX-series cards, it will be interesting to see how Nvidia responds to the demo. Experimental as it is, there is a deep hunger for the benefits ray tracing yields, albeit minus the imposing barrier of entry....

It's too early to tell if Crytek's Neon Noir demo really is indicative of a ubiquitous future for ray tracing. As it stands right now, no games support real-time ray tracing without an RTX card, but that may change. This new tailor-made rendition of Total Illumination will make its way to CryEngine later this year. Soon enough, we'll see whether or not developers are as interested in ray tracing on AMD and legacy Nvidia graphics cards as I am.

Better yet, perhaps we'll even see a few clones of this same feature running in more customary game engines like Unreal and Unity. Whatever the case, we're sure to learn more about Neon Noir and various other CryEngine trappings throughout our week at GDC."

 

I think Lisa Su is engaging with funny conversations when Jensen(Nvidia CEO) said DXR and RTX are made in heaven and they just work when IRL they don't work that perfectly unless on high settings with severe image quality degradation.

 

Used non-RTX GPU's are a much better choice than new RTX or even 1660 GPU's, here's a recent review of the markets - YMMV based on your locale:

Why You Shouldn't Buy the GTX 1660 Ti
UFD Tech
Published on Mar 9, 2019
What do you think of the GTX 1660 Ti? Is it worth it when you take into consideration the entire GPU market?

 

That video is a bad advice. There's nothing wrong with buying cards like 1660ti new, with proper warranty. Buying used 1070 (or Vega models or even 560/580) cards instead is definitely NOT "better choice" unless you're a type of person who don't mind playing roulette and having much shorter warranty. Yes, 1070 cards (and their AMD alternatives) are faster and you can find them for less price on eBay but as a person who went through dozen of them (all bought new) back when mining ETH was profitable on them and on certain AMD cards - I wouldn't buy any of them in used form because I know first hand what kind of thermal stress they go through (and how many of them can fail in less than a year) ;-) Sure, some of them have some warranty remaining (and many don't), but unless you really enjoy WASTING YOUR TIME by returning severely abused cards from sellers like me (I sold mine to some idiots when ETH became unprofitable to mine when counting in electricity costs) back to manufacturer - the few dollars you will save are really not worth it.

And if anyone feel like gambling - there are better ways, such as playing roulette, where you don't need to worry about warranty and can turn your $250-300 into much more (or waste them all, which would be the same as buying abused 1070 on eBay without any warranty and see it fail after a couple of months).

But you can keep posting stuff like this - even "bad advice" videos can be entertaining to watch ;-)

 

There is nothing wrong with buying used and saving money, and his channel gives good advice not bad advice. He also posted a favorable video on the 1660ti to buy new, this video is to remind people that there are better choices used, higher performance for the same or less money.

Why do you think ebay, craigslist, and 100+ years of classified ad's exist?

Zillions of used purchases have occurred, and I've had 100% success buying used PC components, and only a couple of bad buyers that ebay recovered for me.

I've had no bad used PC parts in all the times I've swapped, traded, or bought used parts. And, for most of my PC builds, I've re-used those used parts and my own "used" parts for many years.

I've got PC's 10+ years old still running on the original parts, the only odd failure I've seen was with a batch of "brand new" Noctua fans all froze up after a couple of years of 24/7 use, and I replaced those with new fans, and that PC is still running 7 years later.

And, buying "mining" GPU's has been a great way to get inexpensive GPU's as those poor sap's sell cheap to recoop some of their losses. The mining community have good support for undervolting and detuning power draw to reduce the cost of mining - the whole point of doing it - and so most mining GPU's have been far better cared for than the average gamer's GPU.

Expand your possibilities to the used parts world and start saving money and getting better performance for the same money!!

 

Is it good to buy used PC parts?
JayzTwoCents
Published on Oct 23, 2015


Here's another good channel for learning about buying used PC parts:

are my USED PC prices UNREALISTIC...!? (quick one day haul)
Tech YES City
Published on Mar 8, 2019
In the previous Spell Break Gaming PC that I did, some people were accusing me of getting 'unrealistic' prices on a lot of my deals, despite the fact I even priced up some stuff I bought brand new at a retailer.... (not sure how that works)... Regardless let's talk about what not to do and also go hustle some deals on ebay and locally to see what we can come up.


February 2019's USED PC Parts Hunt (Ft. Ula - The MSI Rep)
Tech YES City
Published on Feb 15, 2019
It's a little early I know, but its THAT time of the month! where we go on patrol for those Deals, bargains and thrills to see what we can come up with! And I hope this month doesn't disappoint!


Here are some more used pc parts videos, some positive some negative, but overall some good advice for finding and picking used pc parts.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=used+pc+parts&sp=CAI%3D