The Ongoing Disasters of the EPIC Games Store

You are making a WILD ASSUMPTION that there is a data breach here.

 

Does the network traffic contain PC data from whence it is being sent? Is the game off and not in use? Is the software running in the background assisting the game play or installation in any way while the game is not running?

I didn't say it was an unauthorized data breach, as all of you "bright people" I am sure read the EULA and understood exactly what you were agreeing to before installing the software, so you've probably authorized this 24/7 Telemetry Phone Home "feature".

My warning is to those that care but don't understand how these things work, these are not the normal actions of a trustworthy application to maintain a constant network data exchange with a remote server, when the game isn't running.

It's not doing a software update, it's not supporting a running game, it's doing this all the time, and it seems tied to user activity on the computer - increasing the rate of exchange to the remote server - all of those things put together means you can't trust this software, even if it's idiotically doing benign things.

It's bad news all around.

Knowing this, I won't install the software, and if I discovered this after installing the software - even if I paid $$$ for the game(s), I'd uninstall the software - probably disable the daemons first, and then ask for a refund based on my dissatisfaction with the installed software's activities.

Then I'd go off and play 1 of 1,000,000 other PC games we all have access to.

Maybe, just maybe, if I really wanted to play those games being served from places I don't trust, I'd get a PS4 / XBox to play them. At least all the data they'd get would be from my game console....

I'd put that game console off on a firewalled subnet, instead of allowing the console direct access to my local network or Wifi connected devices.

You can't be too careful, so it would be best to not play those games at all with places we can't trust.

 

So I decided to monitor Steam's activity for a bit, it seems it also randomly connect to it's infrastructure. Maybe we should also accuse them of data breach activity.

 

Do you have the Steam App Browser loaded and running in foreground or background? That would start traffic activity. As would starting a game.

@NuclearLizard also watched the systray background app for idle traffic and didn't see any.

The CPU load and constant network traffic the Epic Launcher is displaying when it is idle and shouldn't be doing anything is way above acceptable / normal, even if it is benign.

I also don't run game installers 24/7, I only load them when I want to game - they start automatically - and when the gaming session ends I exit the game, store app, systray app, and make sure the daemons are gone.

IDK if that can be done with the Epic installed software, or if the Phone Home Telemetry continues, but I still wouldn't keep the Epic Launcher installed given it's default behavior, which is what most people will see. Most people won't take the time to go through what I do to make sure software I don't need isn't running on my computers on an active basis.

It's second nature to me having done it so long for work / home use, most people don't even think about it, so I have to recommend the safe course of action, delete it, nuke it from orbit if necessary (PC restore / reinstall), and move on to something you can trust.

 

I see Steam sending data back and forth over it's established connection regularly, not sure how the tool @NuclearLizard is using doesn't see it. And It's running in the background. Obviously it sends a bunch of traffic if I foreground it and use it, much like Epic's app.

 

Do you have updates enabled 24/7? I have mine disabled, so I have to do them manually. If you start up the Steam app browser, do you see updates in progress? Check for recently updated software in your library - in case it's already done.

What's the CPU % load and % network traffic load you are seeing on Steam vs Epic daemon's?

You can see the disk / network / process activity sorted by read / write / load usage with Windows Task Manager Performance Monitor, even if you don't have a better tool available it's enough to see where traffic is going between what files / processes, and what rate / sec it's transferring.

 

I played around with bringing stuff in the foreground and that and I only start seeing an uptick in traffic when I move to the store pages and the like. In any sense, Just after I deleted the epic client again my issues with video and images loading went away. Besides, In its current incarnation the store gets a pass from me, no support for local currency is a killer for me.

I'm just glad I got my steam order in before they backstabbed the consumers. (whomever is taking the blame now) I think its gonna be a good game anyways and if it isn't I can get my money back.

 

If I leave both of them in the background they are both talking back and forth to their infrastructure at a low rate, it's about the same rps and also the messages are around the same size. I don't see any perceptible CPU usage difference between Steam and Epic.

EDIT: in fact, as it sit here and watch them over a few minutes, Steam is more CPU time, though both of them are REALLY low.

EDIT: here's about what the CPU usage ratio is constantly, they both waver a bit obviously but steam is always higher.

 

@NuclearLizard said the large increase in traffic and CPU load didn't happen for about a week after installation.

WDK what configuration he has set up with the installer - what games he has installed and when - nor do we know what your installation is like, which can affect traffic as well.

@NuclearLizard is seeing a much larger network and CPU load than you are reporting. See his attachment that shows the source / destinations.

What spawned him to check on his Epic Launcher were the effects it was having on his PC usage, Video playback, and the reports from others about problems with the Epic Launcher, and so he checked and found that by uninstalling the Epic Launcher his PC problems went away.

After reinstalling he found the CPU load high again when it's supposed to be idle along with the network traffic behind the CPU load - and the PC problems came back - so he has nuked it again.

I don't trust it, he can't run it, I think the other reports are also pointing toward it being a problem without the controversy of it's untrustworthy origin and the environment through which the actions have taken place.

There had been cyber activity sourced from China all of the time already, but it has increased tremendously since recent events, coincidentally around the time this Metro: Exodus deal was made.

The Epic Launcher switch of Metro Exodus comes at a time when we should be extra vigilant of unusual actions like this, where the principals seem to be blatantly ignoring the bad effect their action's will have in the gaming community, ensuring financial failure - clearly obvious before this was announced, they had to have known.

So if it's not for financial gain, what is it for? Just to watch it all burn, enjoyment of pissing people off? An opportunity for disrespecting the author and developers, not to mention the faithful fans and customers?

It stinks bad. I wouldn't step in it.

 

I've had the epic launcher installed since they released it a long time ago, this isn't a new install.

So, here's the traffic from both Steam and Epic (minus the random HTTPS traffic from Epic, but that is very intermittent like once every 5 minutes and again its a tiny amount of data).

The Epic XMPP traffic is easy to see, the steam traffic is the 162.254 IP. This is pretty consistent and goes on forever basically..

 

It would take some effort, but maybe you could see if the traffic - https or otherwise - increases as you use the computer for your normal use - editing files, answering email, browsing the internet, and see if the transfer byte count that seems stable right now increases.

 

I already did that earlier today and no rate of traffic increase was seen. I've been running this for hours now. Earlier I had the HTTPS connection that epic sends from time to time but it wasn't very interesting.

You can't decrypt this traffic without the server certs / secrets, if you try to without a proper cert in the proxy the TLS negotiation will fail and the app breaks.

This was one reason why I was a little offput by Epic seemingly using a Symantec cert. Just seems lazy more than nefarious. Of course I might have made a mistake analyzing the binaries but I don't think so.

 

Thanks for your efforts - given the data being sent is encrypted and can't be decoded there's only so much that can be done.

I'm not happy with the whole situation - it makes me uneasy enough to stay away completely - I can't support it from many angles, so I'm opting out till Metro Exodus comes back to Steam.

I don't think there is a solid date or promise that Metro Exodus will come back to Steam.

But, if Epic sales aren't good, hopefully it will come back to Steam sooner than a full year. I can happily wait however long it takes.

Why encourage such bad behavior in the first place by rewarding them with my hard earned money?

Doing so set's a bad precedent that others might follow, screwing things up for all of us on a more or less constant basis. That's not the world I'd like to pay to build and live in.

 

I'm going to buy it on Epic, Steam isn't my friend, neither is Epic, none of them are. Competition is good.

 

Well, if we are getting to that point, I think it's a crappy thing to do to stick Steam with the costs of promoting Metro: Exodus for months, allowing them to spend resources taking orders, setting up the resources to expand network and server support to handle the expected load of millions of new gamers and gaming sessions, only to grab the gold and head out the door at the last minute.

I'd never support that publisher, or the principals behind these BS moves now or in the future.

This isn't competition, it's a mugging in broad daylight, boldly adding insult to injury by asking passerby's to contribute to their nefarious actions by buying into their crimes.

It's basic good guy math. Those aren't good guys. So I am staying away from them. It's as simple as that.

 

I doubt Exodus is going to cause Valve that much trouble from a scaling perspective, there's much bigger games, they've done this before. They are also still getting all the revenue from the pre-orders. They haven't really lost anything but additional sales. We end up getting a more cheaply priced game and 4A gets the same amount of profit they were getting from steam. The only people winning here are the ones that are buying it $10 cheaper, well, and also if Epic dumped some money at 4A to get that deal 4A gets something out of it.

I could really care less, I don't have any loyalty to Valve. They have the best client, but I buy games from alternate store fronts when I have to or feel like it (GoG, Origin, Uplay). No skin off my back. As long as the game works I don't care really, and that's not really up to the store, that's more on the devs themselves.

I don't even know if I'm going to buy Exodus at release. I haven't been playing many games lately in favor of other activities. Nothing was really exciting me. I'm kind of saving up my playtime for Cyberpunk and Outer Worlds, though Exodus does look good and I liked the previous games.

LOL I just looked I have zero hours in the last 2 weeks on Steam. I think I played Magic: Arena within the last 2 weeks though.. I think..

 

@hmscott They said it will be coming to steam on Feb 14th in 2020.

 

Thanks for looking it up

"The move will be a timed exclusivity deal for one full year, returning to other storefronts on February 14, 2020. If you had previously pre-ordered the game through Steam or Humble, you will still be able to download it through Valve's client and play the game on February 15, 2019.Jan 28, 2019"
https://www.destructoid.com/metro-e...ditch-steam-for-epic-games-store-540609.phtml

So that's something I hadn't heard, I read that pre-order buyers were required to migrate to the Epic installer! At least Steam can recoup some money from the mess, probably not enough to cover their costs.

Metro Exodus ditches Steam to become an Epic Games Store exclusive
Metro Exodus will no longer be sold through Steam at launch
By Ben Kuchera Jan 28, 2019, 12:00pm EST
https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/28/18200610/metro-exodus-epic-games-store-exclusive-pc

"Update: Deep Silver has sent an updated version of the press release that states Metro Exodus will return to Steam and “other store fronts” after Feb. 14, 2020."

 

Checked out the dry husk of the Steam Metro Exodus store page...Nice wording from Steam...

"Notice: Sales of Metro Exodus have been discontinued on Steam due to a publisher decision to make the game exclusive to another PC store.

The developer and publisher have assured us that all prior sales of the game on Steam will be fulfilled on Steam, and Steam owners will be able to access the game and any future updates or DLC through Steam.

We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period. We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.

Available: 15th of February 2019"

https://store.steampowered.com/app/412020/Metro_Exodus/?curator_clanid=4283115

 

“PC Gamers are Entitled Spoiled Brats” | According to Epic Games Store Defender HippoZoned
Griffin Gaming
Published on Feb 7, 2019
Responding to a video from a hardcore defender of the Epic Games Store. Not only does this guy have no clue what he is talking about, but he even goes as far as to attack PC gamers who happen to prefer Steam and are not happy with Metro Exodus being a timed exclusive to the Epic Games Store. Calling us "entitled, spoiled brats". He even goes as far as to say he would rather Metro Exodus be removed completely from PC as a result of the "blind hate" towards the Epic Games Store. This is definitely a true gem.
Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS-im...

 

@hfm - thank you for going through all of that effort.

I respectfully disagree. It's not a "mugging," it's market capitalism--which is an area that Valve has excelled in over the past several years, to the point of making Steam a virtual monopoly. Koch Media was under no obligation to sell its product through that monopoly, regardless of whether Valve gave them some free publicity. Is it unfair to Valve that Epic lured Koch Media's product away? Sure. It's also unfair that Valve has a monopoly to begin with.

Epic may not be the good guys, but neither is Valve. At the end of the day, these companies are all vipers looking to make as much money as possible, and all of them will be as anti-consumer as the law and the market allow them to be. Better for us if that market has some competition between a few vipers than for one of them to control everything itself.

The below article is a good read - old but still relevant, because history appears to be repeating itself, once again to Valve's benefit:

Valve is not your friend, and Steam is not healthy for gaming: The illusion behind the “Good Guy Valve” reputation
https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive

A sample:

 

Please don't forget to thank @NuclearLizard for his efforts too.

I still think we don't know what Epic's Launcher was doing on his PC that caused the effects he was seeing, or the larger CPU and network traffic than was reported by @hfm - which he did today... while @NuclearLizard 's problems were over a week (or more?).

Making a quick effort to disprove @NuclearLizard 's and many others reporting similar problems, isn't enough to convince me Epic's launcher isn't a crazy POS that's not to be trusted.

I clearly specifically said that the method used to extricate Metro: Exodus from Steam done by Deep Silver was the mugging, everything else is more bad business, the main complaint was the going back on the commitment to Steam.

Ripping off a committed business partner in broad daylight, skedaddling off with the goodies, taking back their bag of marbles committed in play is a infantile thing to do, every school boy knows that.

The rest of your argument is simply trying to justify Deep Silver's BS actions, and there is no justification possible.

An apology to Steam customers and Steam, putting Metro: Exodus back on Steam for $39.00 - $10 less than it is selling for on Epic, and promising future business partners that Deep Silver will never stab a partner in the back again, would be a minimal start at recompense for their bad manners.

 

Why Players Hate The Epic Game Store
Forge Labs
Published on Feb 5, 2019
Why Players Hate The Epic Game Store
Between Steam, Origin, UPlay & The Epic Game Store, there are a lot of game launchers and stores. However, The Epic Game store has been subject to a lot of criticism after developer Deep Silver announced that the upcoming title Metro Exodus will launch exclusively on The Epic Game Store, despite being advertised to fans on Steam prior. There are plenty of reasons why players hate The Epic Game Store. This Forge Labs video explains why that is.

 

Indeed, thank you as well, @NuclearLizard

I'm not trying to justify anything, other than perhaps my own feelings of indifference over Valve losing some sales, and a preference for market competition. I acknowledged that Deep Silver's decision was unfair to Valve. But I'm not going to get worked up about it because I also think that there is no justification possible for Steam--not as it currently exists.

It's unfortunate how consumers are so attached to Steam that they are willing to constantly look the other way and give Valve a pass despite its pervasive anti-consumer, anti-developer, monopolistic behaviors---and even more unfortunate that the same consumers will also come down like a sledgehammer on any would-be competitor who does anything unseemly at all. I'm sure the Epic Games Store is destined fail because of it. And we, as consumers who enjoy cutting off our noses to spite our faces, will be none-the-better when it does.

 

Yup, Epic deserves to fail after trying this BS move to steal business from a competitor with complete disregard for consumers, developers, and in the end the publisher themselves are gonna get stung long term from taking the pay-off to dump Steam.

It's plain and simple, one of our long time favorite IP's, lovingly crafted and supported by the developer over many years, well presented by Steam who supported both consumer and developer, with Steam rewarding the publisher with front page exposure for their new game that can't be bought. To have Deep Silver disregard such goodwill is insane.

Then Epic / Tencent comes along with a bag of cash to buy off that relationship with bad intentions - that publisher Deep Silver got tricked into betraying a long time partner, and they are going to have trouble doing business with anyone else because of their screw-up in handling a very valuable IP.

IDK how big of a bag of cash Tencent / Epic gave Deep Silver - maybe even a promise to make up the losses between actual sales and projected sales through Steam should the public turn against the idea - which Epic / Tencent will never pay out.

Seriously, I really think Deep Silver is gonna panic when this all comes to a head - when sales tank - and the developer threatens to jump ship to other representation.

This whole thing could literally turn into the worst business screw up in gaming history.

The good that can come out of this is that the "Deep Silver" Smoking Crater formed by the Epic Store failure would be a warning to future mustache twirling Villain's that "crime doesn't pay".

 

Except for Valve. "Crime" pays Valve handsomely.

I wish that we consumers would get just as worked up about Valve's dirty deeds and decide that Steam also "deserves to fail" because of them. If we don't, then we should be just as tolerant when someone else comes along and pulls their own shenanigans. But instead, we let Valve get away with murder, and we execute any potential competitors whose records are anything less than spotless.

...and then we complain about how Steam is the only option.

Anyway, I doubt that you and I are going to see eye-to-eye on this, and I'll let you have the last word on it, if you'd like. Thanks for keeping our chat civil; that's a rarity on the internet these days.

 

Just curious, what Valve's dirty deeds are you referring to? The paid Skyrim mods?

 

Not sure how real this is but I trust the source, he is usually pretty good at vettting things. And if he issues a retraction I will edit/delete the posts.


Your game will still work on steam provided you preorder but you can't preload like you normally can. RIP gametime.

Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk

 

Metro Exodus | Ditches Steam and Tells the Fans to Suck it Up
21Kiloton
Published on Feb 4, 2019
Metro Exodus has been heavily promoted on Steam for many months, then 2 weeks before launch, the publisher Deep Silver pulls the game for an exclusive distribution deal with Epic Games Launcher. Needless to say, the internet has gone wild.
Curiously, the physical copies including the pre-orders will be shipping with Epic Games codes in the box, leading some people to assume that Deep Silver may have had this deal in the bag for some time now. Many Steam users who didnt pre-order before the deadline are somewhat upset about being forced to use "that trashy Fortnite launcher". Something they never signed up for. The plot thickens.


Epic Games Store is Not the Competition PC Gaming (Steam) Needs
Griffin Gaming
Published on Jan 30, 2019
Metro Exodus is now officially and Epic Games Store exclusive and has been removed from Steam. This is not the type of competition we need in the PC Gaming market to counter act Steam. Timed Exclusivity benefits no one except these different PC gaming platforms. These platforms should compete by providing the best features and user experience instead of restricting third party games from the other platforms. This is in no way the competition anyone wanted from the Epic Games Store. This overall is bad news for the PC Gaming market and the consumer. I will not be purchasing any games from the Epic Games Store until Epic stops with this timed exclusivity BS. LEt me know your thoughts.


This one's a bit older, from before this latest debacle, but I was remembering it and looking for it because it foreshadowed the Anti-Consumer events that followed.

Epic's New Store Is Anti-Consumer, Under-Cooked and Dividing the PC Community
Laymen Gaming
Published on Dec 12, 2018
Recent news has broke on exclusive content that will be on the Epic Games Store.. and the real question is, is this good for the PC master race?...

 

Since I would prefer to have everything on Steam and be done with all of the other apps out there, I was kind of pissed off a little bit at first. But, after seeing all of the drama and Steam crybabies whining about it, now I almost want to buy it from Epic just to irk them.

Yeah, this is definitely the part that I don't like. Kind of messy to have all those game clients. I'd prefer to just have one for all games.

 

Go right ahead, and please post your experience here on NBR.

 

I might, but I usually don't buy new games. I wait for them to drop to $25 or less before I open my wallet. I waited for Far Cry 5 to hit $15 (last week or so) as an example. That's almost always my modus operandi. Paying $50-60 (or more) for a new game is a joke and a total ripoff IMHO. Once in a great while I will make an exception. I think Crysis 3 was the last time I paid full retail to get it on launch day, and only because it is my favorite game franchise. I was planning to pay full price for the latest COD, until I found out that it had no single-player campaign. Since it does not, I will most likely never purchase it at any price (including free).

I like Steam because it is convenient. But, more than half of the stuff on this list that is touted as a "benefit" to Steam is utterly worthless and unimportant to me. The one thing I value most is having only one platform for the sake of convenience. I know some people care about all of the social networking features, but I have no use for most of them. Cloud saves and library sorting are the only two features that I find a great deal of value in having.

 

Yup, also Steam didn't get hacked and compromise 80 million user accounts, as well as sell or leak email accounts which now get SPAM and malware emails - not long after signing up for the first time.

I also don't usually buy a 1st day or pre-order release - which is why I am on the outs for a Steam copy - and really I don't care enough about the first days usually, except for multiplayer heavy releases, so waiting a year isn't all that atypical for me to get a new release - waiting for a good Steam sale is fun too.

It really pisses me off when a business arrangement like this gets screwed over by a partner, and even though I am patient with foreign involvement as they have a different "ethic" when it comes to business - you need to be firm with them as to your own expectations and help them to understand when they've pushed things past acceptable - I have a nice straight talk with them and remind them of the benefits of long term relationships.

But, sometimes you are required to demonstrate your respect with firm resolve, and friendly acceptance when they come back rapidly in trouble at some point - sometimes a little longer than others - without a penalty, showing you are respectful of both decisions, to leave and to come back.

It's a wild world out there and to help each other tame it is just part of life.

 

For me I use third party website to buy cheap keys

https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/
https://www.g2a.com/en/

 

Well boys, Looks like next year everything is gonna be on origin. Rip gaming.

 

Another good way to save

https://www.kinguin.net/

 

Yeah, not the same situation, I've been using Origin for a long time with no problems, and already have games on there.

https://www.origin.com/usa/en-us/store/apex/apex
https://www.origin.com/usa/en-us/store/anthem/anthem

 

Oh I know. I was just being cheeky. I have quiet a few games on origin myself.

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One of them could be that incident when Valve banned a lot of people on Steam with legit HL2 keys, back when HL2 was just released.

... I can't even...
Why do you post this cancer...

*looks at user signature*
*sees RTX 2080Ti*
Wait, what?

I think it was though. At least I remember I changed my Steam password at least once, due to some news of mass hacking. It was a few years ago, 3-4, maybe more, maybe around the time of those mass PS4 hacks. Need to check the Internet, see if anything comes up...

 

Mind elaborating....

 

Problems of managing game keys...

You got a problem with people trading in game keys, or just the specific sites - which ones do you use? Do you want to close Pawn Shops, Craigslist, Ebay, or anywhere that provides a marketplace for people trade in aftermarket products?

Whose, signature? I don't use a sig, and I have displaying sigs disabled - clutters up the post listings, and I certainly wouldn't own a 2080ti.

You do that, let us know.

 

A lot of people have issues with grey markets for game keys. As awhile back when all this was new, people would find a way to some how generate and steal them to sell them.

I'm not too sure how as I never went for them but that's the only reason I could think of or even remember there being an issue with.

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You guys cries of heresy due to Valve being "conned" on this Metro thing falls on extremely deaf ears when you use these garbage grey market key sellers. Do you really care about devs and middle men platforms being paid for their work or not? Seems like just an agenda against Epic or Exclusives for some reason.

 

I see a few other users already chipped in. Some of the keys on grey marketplaces might be stolen, or bought using stolen credit card, or procured by other illegal means. They might work and you might not experience any problems and never found out, but you also might lose the game, get no refund, or maybe even get your account banned.

I'm fine with game key marketplaces, as long as they are legit, like Green Man Gaming and many others (in the past used to buy from Gamers Gate as well). Though not sure about CDKeys, don't know if they are legit or not. Bought a few games from them, seemed fine. Definitely better than G2A, where on check out it offers you to buy an insurance from bad key. I mean... again... I can't even... Also, that website design... Kill me...

And again talking about G2A, didn't they start charging users for their accounts just recently?
I'm actually quite surprised you guys newer heard anything regarding shadiness of G2A. It has generated so much negative press over the years, I'm not sure how it could have slipped you. Particularly you, hmsccott, you seem to watch and read everything there is on the Internet regarding games, not sure how it slipped pass you.

It says right there which post and user was quoted

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-15690187

 

It's about Epic's / Deep Silver's not caring about customers or devs, and going back on business arrangements.

There are misuse's of all forms of secondary market's, but we can't and don't close those because criminals misuse them, we keep them policed against criminal behavior so good people can trade in aftermarket goods.

And for me Chinese control with access or involvement in data security related services are a definite pass for me. No way am I signing up for Epic or any other related service with my personal information. Epic store services are too far below par to consider using it on many levels.

I'm not going to be coerced into using a service just because they've paid off some simpleton's to betray their business obligations and customer base, not to mention screwing up their own IP and developer relationship.

4a has already changed representation before, and I'm certain as this unfolds they will be changing again.

Stop trying to confuse the situation. Focus on the real problems. Your efforts aren't even close to convincing me otherwise.

 

Ok thanks for the information. On another note Cyberpunk 2077 will pass on time exclusivity with epic store so I'm very happy with that! https://www.tweaktown.com/news/64796/cyberpunk-2077-devs-pass-epic-store/index.html

 

I'm quite happy about that. I'm glad they continue to be pro consumer.

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I've used many of them over the years, including using the protection against illegal or bad keys, and I haven't had any problems.

You are complaining about "Ebay" problems, and all secondary market providers have the same issues. Dealing with criminals using the same services you and I use is part policing the service and keeping it clean.

I am not going to knowingly use an illegal service, and all of the secondary markets mentioned have had to deal with illegal use of their legal services over time yet remain serving law abiding customers.

This isn't related to the Epic / Deep Silver issue, please stop changing the focus of the discussion, I've been clear enough and trying to put words or actions into my intent isn't going to win the discussion.

Yeah, I block several very active users to unclutter my thread reading, occasionally this happens.

Personally I'd never buy a POS RTX GPU.

Yeah, I remember that, it turned out to not affect anyone's credit cards or email accounts. A website hack which was fixed.

There have been compromised trading of items in Steam's marketplace back in 2015, but that seems to be fixed now too.

The difference in effect and handling are vast between Steam's thoughtful and swift reaction and Epic's total failure, with lots of people getting SPAM, hacked accounts, and ongoing problems as side effect of getting their private data exposed and sold via Epic (by Epic?), the customer service differences are miles apart - with many Epic customers opting to drop the service and delete their account.

"To delete your account, please follow the steps below to contact us with your request. 3. Complete the CONTACT US form: select Delete Epic Games Account and tell us you want to delete your account. When we receive this information, we'll review your request and provide additional confirmation."
https://epicgames.helpshift.com/a/e...ounts&f=how-do-i-delete-my-epic-games-account

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+delete+my+hacked+epic+account

The Deep Silver / Epic bad example is going to give others a chance to show their true colors, and allow the good guys to stand up and make a stand against such bad behavior.

Of course, it does help that they have GOG

" It may have already been expected of Cyberpunk 2077, but it is always good to get an official confirmation from the developers. Cyberpunk 2077 won't be exclusive to the Epic Store, and this makes sense given they have their own storefront Gog.com."

The backlash from Deep Silver / Epic's idiotic behavior is going to get rewarded with lower sales, and fewer (no?) exclusives, maybe even fewer companies willing to sell their products on Epic in any arrangement, exclusive or not.

" Epic Games has certainly ruffled the feathers of developers and publishers that are deciding what platform to release their games on... Deep Silver recently took that leap of faith with their title Metro Exodus and that caused quite a lot of division within their community, some players now even refuse to play the title due to how the decision was handled."

It's good to take the high road while mixing in a little humor when dealing with crap like this:

" CD Projekt Red have confirmed through their Twitter account for Cyberpunk that title will not be going exclusive to the Epic Store. In the above artistic Tweet found on the official Cyberpunk 2077 Twitter account page, a fan pleaded "Please please please don't make this game an epic store exclusive." The account simply replied to the fan "Yeaaaaaaaaah.... Pass on that.""

 

And this is what's wrong with it. They are selling you key and an insurance in case you get the illegal key, which means they had already issues with it.
Shouldn't they try fight the problem itself, but not monetize it it themselves?
It's like I would go to the used car salesman and he would offer me insurance in case it was stolen...
Also, if you hadn't have any problems, it doesn't mean no one had any problems.

Get the keys from the source then. GMG doesn't have this problem, why can't G2A?

*facepalm*
Well, you shouldn't have added to the the key sites discussion by suggesting a seller yourself then...

Are you OK?

 

Yeah, I'm fine, thanks for asking.

I feel very good about not getting a Tencent / Chinese Epic account and warning others against getting one.

I also feel good about making a stand against crappy business activities (Deep Silver / Tencent / Epic) that screw over customers and developers, pointing out and warning against the bad business practices of Epic trying to steal business away from Steam and other online stores with exclusives.

I also feel great about waiting a year (or less?) to get access to one of my favorite game series IP's, Metro: Exodus will be great a year from now, and I won't be hearing about this Epic / Tencent / Deep Silver crap or how RTX performance sucks while enjoying the game.