nVidia 2015 mobile speculation thread

Well, yeah, we don't even have a GTX 970 level card yet. I truly see that Nvidia did that on purpose, to leave themselves space to release refreshed cards, bridging the time to Pascal.

I see a 970M successor with close to 980M shaders unlocked, still 192-bit, and a 980M follow up with one more SMM unlocked than the desktop GTX 970. That still leaves Nvidia with a 'full GM204 shaders unlocked' trump card, if they need to stretch out a couple more cards in 2016.

Remember there's a 384 shader difference between the desktop 970 and 980, 16 clusters vs 13. It's set up perfectly.

 

Sounds sensible, stock 980M's in laptops with good cooling don't run hot, so I still think there's room for them to grow.

 

me thinks a mobile titan will be equiv to a GTX 980. a mobile titan would be super awesome though.

 

I think from a thermal perspective they won't be able to get away with anything larger than GM204 (e.g. 2048 stream processors of the GTX 980 desktop card). When you refer to mobile titan, are you still referring to GM204 and the 2048 stream processors, or even more stream processors?

 

i mean just rebranding the GTX 980 as a mobile Titan.

 

After reading Kevin's post above, and also comparing the 1536 cores of the 980M to the 2048 cores of the desktop GTX 980, that's a 33% increase in the number of cores - I think that's the thermal limit for us - 33% more heat produced than a 980M. Yeah, so I see it the same as you then.

 

i guess it's not possible with GM204...maybe with pascal?

 

What's not possible with GM204 (2048 cores), it's 'only' 33% more cores than the current 980M? That's thermally achievable in my eyes, might not be full desktop GTX 980 performance though as probably lower clocked.

 

And "only" 33% more power draw and "only" 33% more heat generated that needs to be dissipated. Where's that power and cooling supposed to come from?

 

It's not going to be suitable for thin & light laptops, but it would be suitable for laptops with good cooling like the large Alienware, Asus, MSI, maybe Clevo - stock 980M runs cool in these laptops. And besides, I don't think it would be the whole 33% extra heat to dissipate that I quoted earlier, because the cores could well be clocked a bit lower, plus there's other components on the card that likely have a 'static' wattage requirement that is not influenced by the 33% increase in cores. So, I would just guesstimate that 33% more cores even if kept at the same clocks as the 980M would probably be only 20-30% more heat development for the card as a whole.

 

Yeah, it's not 1:1. 33% increased cores ≠ 33% increased everything. Maxwell cores are more efficient as well.

EDIT: We've seen similar things happen before with - hotter, less efficient - Kepler cores. The 680M and 780M are practically identical, but one has more cores (+15%~), more VRAM (+50%), and increased clock speeds. It actually didn't have any dramatic changes in regards to heat or power consumption.

 

*sigh*

MXM 3.0b spec says 100W per slot. The practical limit is around 125W per slot.

Stock GTX 980 draws 165W.

It is physically not possible to power a stock GTX 980 in a MXM 3.0b slot.

Power and heat are linear: 33% more cores, 33% more power, 33% more heat. Even if you could get the power you would still need a cooling system designed to handle a 165W GPU. There are currently zero notebooks on the market with such a cooling system.

If you were to pare down a GM20x to run within MXM's constraints you'd get... GTX 980M.

 

Fairly certain there won't be another GPU until at least October. The new Clevo's are coming out at the end of August with 970M's and 980M's. If we haven't heard anything about new GPU's by September from manufacturers (or legit leaks from credible sources), it probably isn't going to happen.

No one has released any information regarding the mystical 990M except that one Chinese source, lol.

 

Ah, ratinox, not your *sighing* again! It doesn't really matter what a stock desktop GTX 980 draws, because the mobile versions always draw FAR less power at the same number of cores. To quote Cloufire in the opening post of this thread: "GTX 680 with 1536 cores was 195W, and we got GTX 780M with 1536 cores from that one.". So, you can see that the 195W of the desktop GTX 680 is greater than the 165W of your desktop GTX 980 that you quoted - therefore it's completely reasonable to think using those examples that the 2048 cores of the desktop 980 could be used in a mobile version.

Your second point about the heat & power. There's not just the core on card, there's the VRAM and other components that need to be powered, therefore if you increase core number by 33% it doesn't follow that overall heat & power required will also increase by 33%, simply because there are other components on the board that don't have their power demands increased when you increase the number of cores. It would be a bit like this in an equation for 980M (1536 cores):

(Power Requirement of 1536 Cores) + (Power Requirement of other Board Components) = Total Power Requirement of Card

increasing number of cores by 33% would be:
1.33(Power Requirement of 1536 Cores) + (Power Requirement of other Board Components) = Total Power Requirement of Card

You can see by those equations that if "Power Requirement of other Board Components" remains constant between the two then you'll see that a 33% increase in cores can't increase "Total Power Requirement of Card" by 33% - it would be less than 33% (how much less is debatable).

 

Just like 680 --> 780M, a desktop 680 could consume 220+ watts (usually was around 165), running similar clocks or even overclocked, a 780M consumes no where near that much.

The 980 consumes less on average compared to the 680.

It can easily happen.

http://www.ceg-hardcorecustom.com/product/ceg_nvidia_gtx_990m

Pre-order is up

 

That price is absolutely ridiculous, lol. I'll wait for benchmarks and temperatures.

 

Q : Hello, what is the expected release date for the GTX 990M?



A : I hope soon. is on delivery.

this year definitely.

 

Ratinox is right in that you won't simply fit a full GM204 within the same thermal and power envelope as the GTX 980M.

Do we have real world 980M power draw numbers around here somewhere?

 

oops oops double double post post

 

They draw less power because they're cut down: some combination of fewer cores and lower clocks.

VRAM power draw is ~3W. Everything else on the board combined is less than that. Okay, so the power increase isn't exactly 33%; it's on the order of 32.9%. I'm going to call that close enough for anyone less than a full-on electrical engineer.

 

Keep in mind the differences in ROPS/TMUs as well:

970M = 48/80
980M = 64/96
970 = 56/104
980 = 64/128

 

Hey, that legit pre-order site has the 990M. Clearly, anything is possible.

990M = Titan X

 

GTX 680 with 1536 cores was 195W, GTX 780M also 1536 cores - quite a few people have run their 780M with a modded vBIOS at desktop GTX 680 clocks of 1006Mhz on the core - it's not just fewer cores and lower clocks that bring about the power reductions.

I think the VRAM power draw is more than 3W, otherwise they wouldn't need to be cooled by the heatsink I reckon.

I'm expecting to see 2048 cores in one of their upcoming cards and I think it's perfectly feasible for reasons I've already listed in previous posts. I can imagine it could be at slightly lower clocks than the 980M, but I also think they could just about get away with 980M clocks with the 2048 cores.

 

Well of course that's not gonna happen, and that wasn't under discussion either anyway.

 

GTX 780M has only 2/3 the memory bandwidth of GTX 680.

Samsung's 40nm GDDR5 is 4.5W. Their 20nm GDDR5 is on the order of 3W.

Assert all you want but you can't change Ohm's and Joule's laws.

 

"Coming soon!
Available from 40 week 2015."


Codename: N17E-GX
GTX 980M is N16E-GX
http://www.ceg-hardcorecustom.com/product/ceg_nvidia_gtx_990m


Alienware 18 listed with 990M 16GB SLI (pre order). lol at the price
http://www.ebay.de/itm/High-End-Ali...TB-/381343797892?hash=item58c9dc9284#viTabs_0

 

So 2 month wait... Interesting

I can pop one card in the AW18 and avoid the fan issues to enjoy a machine into 2017.

 

990M = full GM204 downclocked to fit within a specified TDP most likely

As for 680 vs 780M, aside from the core being downclocked, the GDDR5 chips are also downclocked (from 6GHz to 5GHz effective). Since Mr. Fox has shown his Alienwares are capable of pulling 600W+ from the wall, assuming 85% efficiency, and taking away 100W for CPU+board power, that leaves each 780M at 205W. So when you overclock a 780M to desktop 680 levels, the power draw should be broadly similar, and that should be no surprise.

 

I can run 680 boosted core clock 1058Mhz + 6Ghz (1500Mhz) memory clocks all day with a 4940MX, 4 ram sticks, 4 ssds, screen, speakers, motherboard, usb devices etc...

All on a machine that has a cap of 330W and insta-shuts down if it's reached.

It doesn't require 205W per card to pull off 680 desktop clocks.

 

16GB each card VRAM is a new level of stupid.

 

Well what are you pulling from the wall with those clocks? DDR3L and SSDs barely use any power. 4940MX will be the main power hog depending on the exact overclock.

It's an off the cuff calculation and not meant to be exact, but I'd bet you $10 if we normalized and accounted for everything, the power draw will be within 10% of each other between identically clocked 780M and desktop 680.

 

Anyone can make a website and eBay advertisement selling those. I won't believe it until NVIDIA, Clevo, GPU-Z, or someone legit shows it. There are quite a few articles hinting to a GTX 990 (desktop card). So, if that's real, this 990M may very well be real.

Will be interested if it's real. Please, someone, waste your money on it and benchmark it.

 

€1500 lol.

No thanks.

And it's likely just as real as Half-Life 3.

 

or the Phantom Entertainment Console

Titan X in a mobile chip less than a year after the release of the Titan X... hmm

 

And still 28nm... lol.

Don't think there's enough VRAM, though. Need 64GB's.

 

Well 16GB on a single card pretty much means 256 bit bus, so that precludes a GM200 type chip, unless for some insane reason nVidia decides to make a 256 bit GM200 chip.

 

Although possible for a 990/m, most if not all of those 990 rumours are around Jan this year. Basically pre 980ti / Titan X days . Do you have any links?

 

I don't think 2/3 the memory bandwidth has a HUGE effect when talking about power consumption of the card, power consumption is what my example pointed to.

You quoted wattage for GDDR5, where did you get that from, and also is that per chip or per GB or per what - I mean it's gonna depend on how much VRAM is on there?

Ohm's & Joule's laws & your earlier characteristic *sighing*, you really do sound like an Ubermensch of the forums! ;-)

 

I think the 16GB of GDDR5 will cause it to act very similarly to the GTX 880M at launch. It was a nightmare. Throttle master 9000. The 780M was great. The 880M a disaster. The 980M was great. The mysterious unicorn of a 990M disaster or great?

The 'X90' series has always been dual-GPU.

@TBoneSan

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 990 TBA - GTX 980 SLI graphics performance?

Spoiler: Specs

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 990 TBA
1051 / 1750
8192 MB GDDR5 512b
2× GM204-400
4096 cores, 256 TMUs, 12 ROPs

If this is legit, I believe there will be a 990M, but I don't believe it will have 980M SLI performance.

 

It is a bottleneck and it will affect processor throughput which in turn will affect power consumption.
How much? That I don't know. But it is a significant difference between the two cards and it will have a noticeable effect.

This is from 2010 in re ~40nm GDDR5.
http://www.samsung.com/us/business/oem-solutions/pdfs/Green-GDDR5.pdf

And now I can't find the ~20nm specs. I'll try to find them again later today.

I'm a former EE student (never did finish that; couldn't keep up with the math). That probably colors my attitude.

 

Thanks for the link. Looks like they are 2 x 980 on the same PCB .. like some of the older x90 nomenclature.
Anything's possible I guess. I have a gut feeling that a 990 based on the 2 x 980 has passed it time.
But I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if we saw a 9xxM refresh for mobile.

 

Latest word on the street is that Nvidia is working hard to meet a early Q3 release along with Skylake for the 990M.

Whats odd is that drivers for 990M have still not appeared in any leaked drivers so far. Not even N17E-GX entry is found which usually happens on AIDA, GPU-Z or driver month(s) before release. I`m keeping my eyes out for it

 

Haha, I reckon I saw that poster in the Maxwell thread last year!

 

Makes sense. PCIe spec allows 375W max (75W from PCIe slot + 2x75W from two 8 pin connectors), and the 980 is nominally a 165W card, although with an overclock it can easily approach 200W. Still as long as the clocks are kept in check, staying within the 375W spec should be pretty easy.

But yeah, still negative on the 980M SLI performance. My personal prediction is that this 990M is a full GM204 chip, probably downclocked on the core relative to 980M to stay within 120W TDP.

 

Two cookies if you tell me what that's from (no Googling).

 

I do love cookies, so I think I'll take a punt! It looks like a poster you can buy (or used to be able to buy), it looks like an old school poster from the 1960's or 70's perhaps when UFO sightings were popular in The States. If I had to guess it would stem from a famous hoax that was later disproved, and that's what gives the poster some ironic undertones (or maybe just overly optimistic ones!). I'd say that's generally where it's come from, at a guess! How far off am I?!

 

Ok Fox Moulder.. About them cookies

That's from the X-Files for the younger audience. Brother @Robbo99999 just made me realise I'm not a youngster anymore.

 

Haha, well I'm old enough to remember the X-files, but for some reason I didn't ever watch it - I didn't have a TV at Uni, (and before then I wasn't living in English speaking countries)!

 

Well you're in luck as all 9 seasons have just been remastered in 16:9 HD and they look incredible.

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