nVidia 2015 mobile speculation thread

If this is the case, then wait for Maxwell's second refresh AND the verdict of it before buying a new machine.

If you do this, you're never going to upgrade. It is what it is. If you upgrade at the beginning of Pascal, you *WILL* kick yourself when the better refresh comes out shortly after. If you feel the need, upgrade to maxwell's refresh after users here have ripped through it. If you wait for pascal then you'll want to wait for its refresh then you'll want to wait for volta then wait for volta's refresh then the next arch is around the corner etc etc. It's the neverending tech cycle.

Pick what you wanna get and go for it. If you don't play new games and can hold out till 2016's pascal gen 1, then you can do that. If you wanna get better performance now, you could probably get a ZM machine that'll work like your HM but ~4x better.

 

It seems no matter what you do, something better is going to come along a number of months later. It's just the way it is. Just remember, it's all about the games. If you can play the games, who cares?

 

Yeah but we don't know what nVidia has in store for future performance... We do know they have not only a vbios block but some OEMs actually have a system BIOS overclock blocking bit too. The future is a gamble.

 

hmmm...

i have no idea what u said.

 

He just recommended to wait for the next generation... the next one... always! You'll save loads of money by doing that.

 

so if the rumor is a mobile gpu being almost equal to a titan x or 980 ti, then what on earth is nvidia planning on releasing on the desktop side? there's no way they would let a flagship mobile gpu and desktop gpu at the same price be the exact performance....

 

yeah . . . i kind of figured that lol.

i haven't been gaming much the last couple of years so i'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to GPU's and CPU's. so what is "Maxwell" and what is "Pascal"? is the Maxwell refresh still going to be a 900-series GPU? i'm guessing Pascal will be the next generation aka 1000-series?

 

Let rumours be rumours. I don't think we'll see more than a full GM204 in notebooks this year. Maybe even with 1-2 deactivated SMMs. Why should they do more? There is no competition.

@houstoned Maxwell is the relatively power-efficient technology you know from GTX 980/970/965/960(M/Ti) and even 850M and 860M. 880/870M are still "Kepler" like 920M, 825M and 740M for example. As you can see, the numbering scheme are marketing only. 10xx-series could be a Maxwell refresh, just because it sounds better. Pascal is the next thing behind Maxwell, but unreleased and subject to some heavy speculationing.

 

yeah, thanks. i did a little more research after u guys posted and kind of figured most of it out.

it looks like i'll be waiting for the Maxwell refresh (1080M???) and then i'll be ordering my NP9773-s. Pascal sounds like it'll take way longer than i want to wait.

 

Wait. And wait. And wait some more.

Maxwell successor is full GM204 (unofficial, no leak, I'm a mod after all) but with Pascal so close... But I am guessing they'll vbios and system BIOS lock the core because Pascal wouldn't be able to keep up. Have to remember... The lower the die shrink, the more likely electron migration is... Which makes things hot... But on a die shrink... I don't know.

And to clarify, that was the rumor I heard... Best guess is 28% over 980M. But then again I was told 980M was going to be 100% over 880M....... Well it's close depending on load.

 

Best bet is to grab the free & powerful hardware when it's out, I'm afraid things are going to get sour in a couple of years or so due to these M$ / Intel / nGreedia's tactics and lame excuses...
I think that Pascal won't be MXM (they already showcased that NVLink mobile chipset, the one shown is not soldered afaik as that picture of chipset had screwslots), further this no competition from AMD will make Nvidia shift to Intel's like plan on BGA push !!

 

Yup. There always is something better coming down the pike. If you wait for something better then you'll never have anything (or anything good) now. So, if you need it now then buy now.

NVlink will require dedicated system boards. It's for compute servers. It won't be available for desktops or notebooks. Any "mobile" chipset with NVlink is for stacking 1U servers.

 

Can I know the source ?, Every NB user will be happy If that's the case, there might be chance for MXM after-all with pascal..

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvlink.html

NVLink is not 8-way SLI. It's a new interconnection bus designed for exascale supercomputing applications. It won't be in consumer products.

Edit:
https://www.olcf.ornl.gov/summit/summit-faqs/#f2

 

i thought Pascal was supposed to come out around Q3 of 2016? that's a pretty long ways from now.

i'm not worried about heat too much because the NP9773-s will be sitting on top of my NZXT Cryo LX 24/7.

 

Fixed that for ya

 

my main laptop will always sit on a cooler. if i'm on the go then the back is lifted up with Cool Balls.

i've seen a couple of reviews where the NP9773's CPU is hitting almost 90*c and that's not good enough for me because i like to pamper the crap out of my systems. that's probably one of the main factors why my NP8850 is turning 5 this September and it's still running like a champ.

 

With good paste and max fans, you should never approach 90c in any sort of gaming or rendering scenario on that machine. Many people check without use of max fans; it's important to remember to find out what people actually did XD.

That being said, I completely understand your desire for coolness. I believe the hottest my laptop is able to get is ~83c on the primary GPU on a VERY hot day running full bore in a game that makes it run hot. Everything else remains under 80c no matter what I do the way I set it up =D.

 

Why is it that people think that 90C is too hot? Has the world forgotten that several models of AMD processors considered 95C to be normal and at least one Intel mobile processor called 100C normal? The reality is that if it's not going to thermal shutdown then it's not running too hot. A reasonable case can be made for thermal throttling being threshold of too hot. 90C is well enough below both thresholds to qualify as not too hot.

 

I would agree with this in theory 100%, but I also had a Sager die that always ran hot... only laptop I ever had fail, and it ran the hottest. Since then I too baby temps, as it's not the actual CPU or GPU that will die from the temps, it's the nearby components or solder connections unfortunately.

On another note, I'd be shocked if Pascal isn't available MXM, and am banking my next laptop purchase on that fact... we shall see!

 

Why is it that people think that 90C is too hot??? I can tell you... Most have now Bga garbage in a thin laptop that gets hotter and hotter as time passes. No benefit with a flimsy cooling in a flimsy CrApple thin laptop. If the processor or gpu should break then they must buy a new and very very expensive motherboard. If they are lucky enough to obtain a used motherboard after warranty has expired... It is not enough longer and only switch to a new / used processor or GPU .

 

I'll add to that - 90 degrees give zero overhead to ever overclock and get more performance. Plus it makes other components run hotter than they need to.

 

BGA solder flows at ~185C. Entire main boards are subject to that heat when BGA packages are set (they're literally baked in ovens). The core will never get anywhere near hot enough to reflow the solder. The thermal throttle kicks in at 100C, and if temperatures continue to rise (cooler failure for example, or you've blocked the vents with your pants or skirt) then the thermal shutdown will kick in.

If it is running then it is not running too hot.

PCBs have mechanical issues that can lead to premature failures. A flimsy chassis will flex. This can cause the main board to flex. This can crack circuit traces and solder which can cause the whole thing to fail. BGA is not unique in this regard. Conventional CPU sockets and MXM sockets for GPUs can be damaged this way as well. BGA gets to be the poster child because surface mounted components (which are not anything new, by the way) allow for thinner chassis.

 

Clevo P750ZM and P770ZM are running an 88W desktop i7 quad core CPU. If you undervolt by -50mV and drop clocks to a straight 4GHz, it will rarely ever exceed 80C. Pretty phenomenal for a laptop IMHO.

I understand the argument that if you have CPU "X" and GPU "Y" that you should be able to run at max performance all the time. But sometimes you just have to understand the limitations of the systems. I can push any CPU to 90C or more in a desktop with liquid cooling even. It's all relative. But if you want a current 4GHz desktop CPU and its performance in a laptop, you have one option and one option only. No you won't be able to push it much, but that's not the intent. Go with a lesser CPU and you won't be able to exceed 80C ever, but you also won't be able to exceed 4GHz either.

Right now, unfortunately, there's slim pickings if you want a high performance laptop with interchangeable components. Thankfully Clevo came through with an awesome solution.

The only thing to wait for at this point is if you want SLI or not. From my understanding there will be a Clevo SLI system based on the P770ZM with desktop CPU. Otherwise IMHO, Maxwell refresh and Skylake will offer a 10-15% improvement at best. Pascal will be here mid to end of 2016 which is where we should see significant gains.

Sure it may give little overhead to overclock, but if you're talking about a desktop CPU at its stock config, it's still faster than any mobile CPU. And it doesn't necessarily make other components run hot. Most of the heat is run through the heat pipes to the cooling fins and obviously blown out by the fans. Internal temps are usually under 50C even though the CPU or GPU may be running at 90C.

 

Actually for some reason I had GPU's in mind. I never minded my 3920xm visiting 90 degrees for short periods, but that was on the extreme side of things at 4.6Ghz - but like you mentioned.. just go for a more conservative CPU or OC in this case. GPU wise, I honestly don't like them going over 80 degrees...let alone 90 and roasting the vrms. GPU's seem to be far more prone to failure than a CPU these days. 90 degrees out of the box would be a real concern for me.
I'm looking forward to seeing that SLI Clevo if it comes to market.. yum yum

 

Most laptop manufacturers lower the thermal throttling temperature down to 97°C or much lower nowadays. LoL. Almost none use Intel own specification longer. Maybe there is a reason for this ??? HaHa. All laptops from all brands begin now to look like each other with the same garbage bios and crippled hardware that does not even run on hardware manufacturer's own Specifications. This gets worse and worse now.

 

As a 9377-S 4940MX and 980M SLI owner... I can honestly tell you I've given up on figuring out the heat in my system..... Its way too high. Wish someone was local that could look at it because I'm so annoyed it's not even funny. I've managed to get my 980Ms with an 87C temp target to run *mostly* 1226MHz 24/7 with an average temperature of 83C thanks to @Prema but that's still so much hotter than it should be. Don't get me started on the MX...

 

I've gotten my machine mostly stable (though no matter what my primary GPU is way hotter than it should be) with the temps, but Ethrem's system confuses the ever-living meowmix out of me. His machine flat out shouldn't be doing what it's doing with his temps.

 

And we both know... I know how to tighten screws... I mean I managed to apply Liquid Ultra and have it make a difference and not fry anything... So I'm not an idiot.

 

Yeah, exactly. In fact I've done less work on these machines than you I'd say. I would expect you to know what you're doing more than I do.

 

Well I managed to strip two pairs of GPU screws and 2 CPU screws... Luckily the CPU just needs needlenose and the GPU I got replacements for...

Only thing left is pads... But I don't have the tools or the patience to cut them and I won't pay 140 bucks to Eurocom for precut pads...

 

Yeah I know the feeling with that. I still want a full new set of stuff though. I still wanna lap and introduce a full new complement of heatsinks to this thing including the EM ones. I really want a fast CPU eventually. But at this point it's simply wishful thinking XD.

 

Could be a damaged heatpipe? If Eurocom can send you a replacement heatsink maybe you can troubleshoot and might improve temps a bit.

 

Could it be the heatsinks? Maybe they are warped, not sitting right or have some sort of defect I mean I think I have read most of the things u have done to try and fix this so to me I would assume it has to be the headsinks and/or the heat pipes?


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Sure there's a reason. It's because consumers complain about loud fans and insist that their notebooks must be running too hot and demand that manufacturers Do Something(tm) to fix the "problem".

 

Just wait, soon you get Skylake with even hotter temps than Haswell.
Just in time for the anorexic laptops today, where style is more important than function. Soon you have both a CPU and GPU creeping up in the 90s.

RIP Mobile gaming

 

That's the thing though... Both heatsinks have the issue and Sager already replaced both heatsinks when they upgraded me to 980Ms. Seems crazy they would crack? Unless Foxconn is really letting quality slip...

 

There is a place for thin and lite laptops with mid-level GPU'S that handle temps just fine.
We all don't need the best CPU/GPU set at the highest possible settings to get a good gaming experience .
Having top level hardware is nice but not all can afford it or really need it.

 

Not to mention not everyone wants to carry a 9lb+ laptop around

 

Thats very strange man? Have you thought about sending it back on warranty? You are probably the most knowledgeable person on this system here, but seem to have the worst luck. And there is nothing worse then paying a fortune for something that doesn't work

I sincerely hope you get this figured out as you have helped so many people here including me many times. Best of luck my friend.

 

I've thought about it but Sager has already had the machine in twice since I've gotten it because of the 880Ms and its not only inconvenient to RMA it again but I'm actually okay with it now thanks to Prema. Sure the temps are higher than I'd like but it's not the danger zone (nVidia default throttle is at 87C on Maxwell cards and unlike previous cards with their 92C throttle points, the core doesn't tank to 400 or so, it gradually steps down and is virtually imperceptible unless the temp stays at the ceiling which never happens). I keep an eye on it. Since I have it actually overclocked and stable I'm not going to worry about it. The only real thing I can think of is I got oil on the thermal pads when I fixed Sager's sloppy pad job (some of the pads were actually folded because they didn't place them right) and now the heat that would normally transfer through the pads is instead being pushed to the core from the inductors. The air shooting out of the machine is quite hot so I think the heat pipes are doing their job so that's all I can think of.

 

So - is it worth it to get SLI anymore for gaming?

 

I pondered that very question when I was speccing out notebooks earlier this year.

The conclusion that I came to is "no". I like the idea of it. Heck, I liked the idea back when it meant "scan line interleave". In practice it just isn't worth either the expense or the hassle. YMMV of course.

 

The way things are going, no. Especially with UE4 not supporting SLI. If you get a 980M you can play basically every game on High and many on Ultra and still have a playable frame rate.

We will have to see what happens with Windows 10 and DirectX 12 and see if it delivers in the multi GPU promise department. SLI machines are also monstrous which is problematic for some when it comes to portability.

 

What do you all think the next refreshed mobile gpu's will be called?

 

Yup. I have no complaints about my single 980M.

From what I've read, Multiadapter isn't automatic. Games need to be written to use it. Which means existing games won't unless they're patched for DX12. I'm sure that someone will figure out an ENBSeries-like library that patches render calls to use Multiadapter. New games will have it as an option, of course. It should be much easier to use than SLI and Crossfire since it's one set of APIs for all GPUs rather than needing separate codepaths for nVidia's and AMD's implementations.

 

I'd they managed to get Glide wrappers going on D3D they can certainly make a multi GPU wrapper.

 

Here's my opinion on the whole take:

If there's another Maxwell release, it'll probably be 980MX or 990M. There may be a GTX 990 this year, which would be a dual-GPU like the 690 was. As NVIDIA has basically skipped the 800 desktop series to match mobile + desktop naming schemes, "990M" is more likely over 980MX. Performance wise, I'd expect another 20%-30%. It can't be too good, otherwise Pascal may be hurt in sales.

However, with that said, I see another release this year as highly unlikely. New models of Clevo's are coming out with 980M's in August/September. The GTX 980M was launched in October (if I remember correctly). So, it's technically possible there will be another Maxwell mobile GPU at that time...but I have no expectation of such event. It would be smart for NVIDIA to just launch mobile Pascal early next year ahead of desktop Pascal.

If you're in the market, it's never a good time to wait. Just buy and resell if you're an enthusiast who needs the latest and greatest.

 

I agree, as long as there is no competition like an R9 Fury M on the market, nVidia will not challenge their own Maxwell-efficiency myth by releasing top-notch chips that struggle with laptop cooling systems. So I wouldn't expect more than a slightly faster 980M. Regarding the names: I wouldn't be surprised if they name it 985M, or even 1080M. NV had always been good marketing-wise...

 

And what about the low and mid-range GPU's? I don't think they'll just refresh the top end, there will very likely be updates to the low and mid-range GPU's. I think we will see a new naming convention with the Maxwell refresh.