7811FX new heat issue ACPI TZS0

It's most likely a heat buildup issue. I had the problem a long time ago a few months after when I first got my laptop. I opened up my laptop and found a lot of lint build-up on my heatsink exhaust. Cleaning that helped. However, I didn't like how the bottom of the laptop heated up, so I bought a Zalmon NC2000, and then I never experienced the issue again. However, I also applied Arctic Silver 5 just to have low temps (sucks can't overclock the CPU). If you're using your battery, it adds to the heat, so that's most likely why you're seeing spikes in temperature.

 

I though I would shed some light on the ACPI TZ.

first let me tell you ACPI TZ = ACPI thermal zone.

the ACPI TZ is not a temperature really.
It is a calculation based off the temperatures of the devices in the thermal zone.

most of the time those devices include the CPU and GPU.

There are two ways to solve the prob.

1. Just ignore the ACPI TZ. The ACPI TZ is sometimes used to trigger cooling events such as active cooling (fan) and passive cooling (CPU throttling).
I don't think that the ACPI temp is a trigger for your notebook so that it why you can just ignore it.

2. There is obviously a bug in the dsdt table.
you can fix it yourself.

follow this guide untill step 7:
http://notebookequus.blogspot.com/2008/09/patching-dsdt-table.html

Now when you get to step 7, download notepad ++.
then open the asl file with notepad ++.
you then need to change the code which calculates the ACPI TZ temp.
I can help you with this if you upload your asl file here so that I can read it.

once you've changed the code. continue following the guide ^^ from step 13 to step 15.

 

It is a trigger. It throttles the CPU. I hope that's all it does though. I hope it doesn't touch GPU fan speed. I suspect that is calculated off of the GPU temp alone though. I know that it is calculated from more than just other temperatures, or that the spike is caused by other factors as well. It will spike on lower temperatures if the GPU is overclocked, or in some cases if the CPU is switched to one with higher power consumption, even if temps are overall lower. That's an interesting guide. I'll check it out.

Oh, hey, the link to equus is broken, and I can't find it anywhere else. Do you know where I could download it?

 

You can raise the temperature at which CPU throttling is triggered if you want. I can help you.

Also you can usually change the fan speeds in the same dsdt code.
I can help you with that also.

BTW, thanks for telling me the link was down.
I have attached the program and the guide (PDF file) to this post in a zip file

 

Cool, great. I'm in the middle of installing drivers right now, so I won't be able to get to this today. I'll try it tomorrow. I'm guessing changing the temp CPU throttling occurs at won't do anything though. I think it will just spike to whatever temperature you set the throttle point at. I'd still be interested to see of course. You aren't a regular on the Gateway forums, and I've actually never even seen you. How did you come across this post?

 

take you time, I'll be on this forum every day for the next 2 weeks.

Actually, in the dsdt code we can do whatever we want.
we have absolute power.
you can even dissable throttling all together. You'll be amazed when you see all that can be done in the dsdt

I'v just recently joined the forum. most of the time I'm in the hardware modifications forum.

This forum has helped me a lot (helped me to mod my motherboard to allow overclocking with setfsb, helped me to undervolt using hardware and software, helped make it possible to play residant evil using a miniPCIe port to connect external desktop graphics and a lot more), so now I lurk the forum trying to help out to say thanks.

I came across this post just by clicking on the "new posts" link.

 

Hey, that's all pretty interesting. Especially the miniPCIe thing. Could you post the link to that as well? In any case, I guess I'll see you tomorrow. Getting access to fan speed control is something that has yet to be done on Gateway's P-series. It would be very helpful to those who are irritated by the fan noise.

lol, and how am I scary? Is it the avatar?

 

sure, BTW it works for miniPCIe and express card slot.

here is a link to the most recent news:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5297819&postcount=477

here is a link to the actual thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=397667

and here is a link to the current status/progress, updates and interesting info:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5122549&postcount=159

that last link includes benchmarks^^.
PE4L with PE3N or EC2C test PASS with Nvidia GTX260 on a DELL_M1330. Evil5 test result (average 53.3fps, so so >~~< ).

you can get 1x, 2x and 4x. but not the full 16x bandwidth.

the avatar + the name

 

Ok, I got the ASL file. Here it is.

 

good work gamadaya, I'm working on the file now.

right now I'm working on this section:

If you want to know what most of the things mean, go and download this datasheet:
http://www.acpi.info/DOWNLOADS/ACPIspec40.pdf

MH

 

there are two things you can do to stop throttleing.

1. you can simply change the passive cooling trip point. currently it's around 98C.
If you raise it to 105C then you should not get throttleing.

2. you can delete the passive cooling code. that will eliminate throttleing.


I prefer method 1. it is vert simple. just change one value.

you will still see your thermal zone go up to 98C, but this will now trigger nothing so you will be able to ignore it.

It's not a real temp, it's just a calculation. No part of your notebook will actually be at 98C.


I have looked at the code further.
you have no fan speeds there. your fan/s are controlled in the BIOS (probably).
So you cant control the fans speed with this method.

One more thing you can do is change the thermal zone temperature.
you can pretty much make it whatever you want.

Why is that good?
because in some cases, if you raise the min thermal zone temp, your fans will work harder.
If you lower your maximum thermal zone temp, you can avoid throttleing (this is the third way to stop throttleing).

So what exactly do you want?
do you want the thermal zone temp to not go above a certain value or do you just want to dissable throttleing?

 

Well, I stopped throttling by undervolting with RMClock. RMClock is in control, and even if it spikes, it won't throttle. This might be useful for other people though. I'm pretty sure method one would work now that I think about it. If you change to a certain BIOS, throttling will occur at 86, not 98, so I think you're right. Do you think there is a way to get an accurate reading from TZS0 though?

 

TZS0 is not a temp, it's just a number.

It is already accurate. If you want I will make it a smaller number?

 

I know it's not a temp, but I don't think 98 is the number it's supposed to be. By that I mean that I don't think Gateway intentionally designed it go to 98 and throttle the CPU under the circumstances in which it does. As for making TZS0 max a smaller number, like 1 below the trip point, I guess that would be OK. I don't think it's affecting anything when RMClock is active, but it would probably stop the throttling for people who aren't undervolting.

And what I mean is, I'll change the max TZS0, stop RMClock, and run 3dmark06 (usually spike it) to see if the trip will still happen.

 

If the thermal zone never reached 98C then your CPU would never throttle.

Sometimes the code has bugs. It's mentioned a lot in some linux forums.
I don't think your code has a bug. mainly because of what I said about if your thermal zone never reached 98C, your CPU would never throttle.

Also when the code has bugs, it is pretty easy to spot. But your code looks good to me.

Personally I changed my thermalzone to never go below 80C. Because that makes my fan stay at a higher speed.
right now my temps are 80C for the TZ, and 30C for both cores.

 

If it's not a bug in the code, then is it actually taking appropriate action when throttling? I don't think so. None of the temps are high enough to even come close to justifying that. But what would I change to cap TZS0 at 97?

 

A simple thing you could do is make TZS0 be the same as TZS1.

Let me think a bit how to cap TZS0 at 97.

 

I can tell you how to subtract 2C from the TZS0 temp.

so when the TZS0 temp wants to be 98C, it will be 96C.

Is that good enough?


EDIT: I can cap it at 97C, but I will have to add 3 lines of code.
Give me a few mins and I'll have the code ready.

 

ok, here is the code that will cap TZS0 at around 97C:


If(LNot(LLess(Local0, 0x57)))
{
Subtract(Local0, 0x4)
}


I can tell you where you have to put the code if you want to use it.

 

Yeah, sure, I'll try it out. I don't know if I can get it to spike right now though, as I'm in a very cool room. Maybe if I push my GPU really hard.

 

EDIT: THIS CODE WILL NOT WORK. I WILL MAKE A NEW POST FOR YOU WITH BETTER CODE. IGNORE THIS POST.

ok, first backup your registry.
Also backup your system.

Usually if the code is bad, you will get a blue screen next time your boot.

to solve this, hold F8 while booting and in the boot menu choose "last known good configuration".

I decided to change my code (I think it's good now).
Here is how to modify the code:

1. open your asl file on notepad ++ (download this if you dont have it).
2. go to like 5796. (the line should say "Return(C2K_(Local0))")
3. above that line, add the following code:

If(LNot(LLess(Local0, 0x57)))
{
Subtract(Local0, 0x4)
}

Then save the file.

Now you can follow the instructions in the guide I gave you to load the new table.

you will have to compile the file and then load it.
you will need to use two commands as shown in the guide.
asl *.asl
asl /loadtable *.aml

If you have any trouble then let me know, I'll try to help.

Also do some tests before and after the mod to see if it helped.

I have attached a zip file in which I have put the modified asl and aml files. just to save you some time

MH

 

Hi all. Im very interested in fixing this problem. i have a 7805u with an x9100 undervolted and i put icd7 on everything but when i oc the gpu i get this problem. moral hazard is the code u posted the same for the 7805u? i know these laptop are just about the same but i just want to be safe. thanks in advanced.

 

here is my asl file

 

no. you souldn't try it.

I will modify your code.

 

EDIT: SINCE THIS CODE DID NOT WORK. I WILL MAKE A NEW POST FOR YOU WITH BETTER CODE. IGNORE THIS POST.


here is the method for vic3210, your file is very simmilar and so the method is pretty much the same.

first backup your registry.
Also backup your system.

Usually if the code is bad, you will get a blue screen next time your boot.

to solve this, hold F8 while booting and in the boot menu choose "last known good configuration".

Here is how to modify the code:

1. open your asl file on notepad ++ (download this if you dont have it).
2. go to like 5739. (the line should say "Return(C2K_(Local0))")
3. above that line, add the following code:

If(LNot(LLess(Local0, 0x57)))
{
Subtract(Local0, 0x4)
}

Then save the file.

Now you can follow the instructions in the guide to load the new table.

you will have to compile the file and then load it.
you will need to use two commands as shown in the guide.
asl *.asl
asl /loadtable *.aml

If you have any trouble then let me know, I'll try to help.

Also do some tests before and after the mod to see if it helped.

I have attached a zip file in which I have put the modified asl and aml files. just to save you some time

MH

 

wow! thanks for the fast reply. good thing i asked first.

 

please let me know how it goes.

I cant test the code because I don't have your notebook.

If it doesn't work, I can try again

 

so i just ran the code and it seems like it's not working
i still get 98 in hwmonitor. the good news is i didnt get a bosd

 

can we try to raise it to 105 like u said in your previous posts?

 

yes, I will think for a min.

And read your code some more...

 

tzso...isn't this your northbridge sensor?

 

@ vic3210, the following has had it's passive cooling (throttling) trip point changed to 100C.

I don't know what will happen.

 

I'm sick of having to explain this.

TZS0 is thermal zone S0.

it is not a sensor. it is just a number.
yes it is based on a real temp, but it is not a temp.

It is a trigger, which in this case triggers CPU throttling.

source: ACPIspec30b


This notebook has two thermal zones.

 

so quite explaining.
thermal zone sensor 0
thermal zone sensor 1
was what the people at winstone who coded the bios said it was.

it has more than 2 zones, but what you see are 2. it has 4
cpu
NB
system
vreg

because when we went through all these gateways
6831
6860
7811

it was connected to the NB. and when we modded the NB, the temps dropped.





and i know im heavely over clocked in all these test. while running a gaming benchmark.

but hey, if she lied...can't help that..these temps looked to be well with in the proper range..with out undervolting or scripting.

 

ok so i just ran some tests and i think im still getting some throttling. i have to test this some more but i have to get some sleep. i will test some more tomorrow and let u guys know what happens.

 

@vic3210, great work. can't wait to see if it stopped the throttling.
there is more we can do to the code to stop throtting.
for example you can remove the passive cooling code, where passive cooling is a fancy term for throttling.


@johnksss, what northbridge do you have?

Also I said TZS0 is based off a temp, so it behaves like one. But it is a calculation so it will act strangly.
I can't explain it too well. You best read for yourself here:
http://www.acpi.info/DOWNLOADS/ACPIspec40.pdf

Also look at the dsdt text files that where uploaded in this thread.
search for "tz" and read how the thermal zones are calculated.

I think that if you measure the temp of the NB, you will not see it go to 98C.

 

funny thing about the northbridge and how it is calculated... it switches between the cpu and nb temp sensor. at least it is on the desktops and as far as i could tell, it was doing the same thing on the laptops.
gateways we're notorious for bogus reads due to that stupid sensor. it would automatically throttle the cpu at 98c. some people this temp sensor shot str8 to 98'c and they really hadn't even done anything but run vantage. then the cpu would start to down throttle to keep from burning up. and in part of those cases, the cpu wasn't even really to blame... cpu was actually where it's suppose to be, but that sensor they are using gets to jumping around because of inside the case temps and jumping from cpu to nb (speculation. but every where else that measures this seems to jump between the two)

as you know..everything in the bios is connected to the acpi in one form or another. and of course what you seek is in the bios under the acpi section..one only needs to obtain a phoenix bios editor to see what's going on. me? not that talented. i just changed the pads on the nb and my temps never got carried away nor did that throttling occur when i over clocked it up to 3.0 ghz.

i understand what it is your trying to get across and that's cool. not knocking your hard work and efforts. especially like the link you posted about the pin mods. (wish they had them back when i owned all 3 of these gateways)

 

If you get access to your BIOS code ,I'd like it if you let me see it


@vic3210, I have made another attempt at capping the TZS0 at 96C.

it's attached to this post as usual.
try it if you have time.

 

Wow, lots of developments. I noticed vic3210 said that it was still throttling because HWMonitor read 98C. Is that why you said your old code doesn't work moral hazard? HWMonitor should still read 98, shouldn't it? It's not like it's getting the number from the code. It's getting the number from some internal sensors (faulty sensors as johnksss pointed out). Vic, can you actually tell if it is throttling? It should be very obvious if you're running a benchmark like 3dmark06. There should be a huge framerate drop. If the code is working, the sensor should read 98, but the throttle shouldn't occur because the code returns 97 (or 96, whatever).

 

i would also check hwmonitor against some other temp reading programs...
back then...it was like 2 or 3 of them reading 5'c over what they should really read. hwmonitor use to be one of them.. did they fix this?

 

HWmonitor seems to be pretty accurate. Definitely not that big of a difference. I tried SpeedFan (or FanSpeed, I can't remember what it's called), but it's bugged and TZS readings don't change for me.

 

hwmonitor now allows you to compensate if it is reading wrong.
speed fan never worked right for me on any notebook i owned.

 

ok so after some test with last file my tzs0 max out at 87c. i dont see the fps drop anymore. so this seems to do the trick. Thank you so much moral hazard you're the best!!!

 

Wait, it's at 87 with the script that caps it at 96? How does that work? I didn't even think it would affect the HWMonitor reading, let alone put it at some random number.

 

yes.

It is getting the number from my code!

I tested it with my system, I changed my TZ to 80C and now every program reads my TZ temp as 80C.

 

Great, thanks for giving feedback. Now I know how to code better

I'm having trouble understanding that too.
But there may be a few things to explain it:
1. I had to convert the temp from celcius to kelvin and back many times.
so I lost some accuracy there.

2. The code is not really straight forward. I'm missing a few bits of important info that I could get by looking at your BIOS. Basically I had to assume some stuff that I guess isn't true.

It does affect the HWmonitor reading, I can confirm that 100%.
I tested it myself on my system.

Basically I can change the TZ temp to whatever I want and it does show in all software.

Would you like me to do the same thing to your code so that you can test it too?

 

Yeah sure, alter my code too. So what assumptions did you make? If the code is actually calculating TZS0, or at partially calculating it, do you know the formula? I could get you my BIOS if you need it. Do I need to do anything special, or can I just give you the file?

 

The assumtions were that I could see everything that happens to the TZS0 temp in the code. But I think I'm not seeing something.

I think my maths was ok (give or take 1C) so the only way it could be capped at 87C (instead of ~96) is if there is more code in the bios (or somewhere else) changing the value of the TZS0 temp.

I could simply compensate for the 10C difference by changing one number, but I think 87C is not that bad is it?

I havn't modified any BIOS before, so I'm not sure if I could even dissasemble your BIOS file to see the code.

Maybe someone should start a new thread on BIOS modding your notebook?

 

@gamadaya, I have attached the new modded files in a zip called cap87c.

Let me know how it goes and if it works

 

not trying to be a net nanny or anything, (knowing me...i would have jumped at the chance to try this with mine) but are we sure the temps are not messed up. meaning... basically raising the 98'c limit to 109'c.. (which can also be done in the vbios for gpu's) and your 100 percent sure your calculations are not working in reverse? so we think it's chilling at 87, but in reality it's burning up at 109 and us not knowing. (the 109 comes from your 11'c degree change, but in the opposite direction)

(maybe off the wall speculations, but you never really know till you ask)

just trying to get the scoop on your work. it may come in handy for some other projects later down the road.