'Laptops w. Intel Series 5 chipset can not take full advantage of fast SSDs'

Wow, that tweak really made my laptop noisy! Thanks very much to Sassen and JJB for cracking the caper of the 4K read speed.

My 4K read speeds doubled. For some reason the 4k write speed doubled as well; however in safe mode it dropped much lower than what it was previously.

Here is my drive (Intel X18-M G2's in Raid0) before disabling idle:


With idle disabled


With idle disabled and in safe mode

 

Thanks for those results.

From here on please post only 50MB test size, 3 runs, 4K results. This is to reduce wear and so we can easily compare results.

 

Well, thought Ssassen's trick would fix my low 4K reads, and it did, kind of doubled the speed for both reads and writes, however, like some others here, can't stand neither the temps (near 80 degree Celcius) nor the NOISE the fans are making (near an helicopter's level).

Here's my 4Ks scores, with 2XIntel160G2RAID0; PM55; IRST 9.6.3.1001...

Note I chose for CDM 3 passes, but 500MB, for two reasons:

1. I don't care about wear;
2. Anything less than 128MB test could lead to/show wrong results because of the internal cache, which is NOT exactly what we want to measure here...

Now, if we could only (WE could be Intel by the way) find a way to get those results without having my lappy to think it's an hellllllllll-icopter, that'd be simply GREAT !

Please Intel, GET THE HELL OUTTA MY DELL !!!​

eYe​

​

 

Has anyone confirmed if this is a problem on other OS's?

 

So would anybody switch to AMD processors and chipset to get full SSD speed?

 

LOL, not likely for me. To many problems in the past. Maybe when their next gen multi core CPU's get released and are fully tested.... Besides it's not like you can just pop in an AMD replacement CPU...

 

Besides, as far as I understood, it's a Chipset problem, not a CPU one...

But sure goes the chipset, so goes the CPU...

never mind....

:wink:

 

If you get a AMD CPU you might get other heat and battery life problems

 

I cannot believe you guys, though i mean you can have an AMD cpu, without an AMD chipset, wake up!

 

If I'm not too far away from the truth:

If eye see pee you, a MD could come in, tell: chip, Seth ?



never mind...

 

never mind

 

I was curious if disabling the processor idle state would help other chipsets and drives as well. I have a Latitude E4300 with the GM45 chipset coupled with an older Patriot Torqx 128gb Indilinx based drive.

This is my OS drive, so results are little slow, but it definitely helped. Pretty interesting. Definitely not the improvement you guys with SF drives are seeing, but a nice bump none the less.

 

You more than doubled your 4K random reads. That's a big improvement.

Surprising to me, because my GS45 doesn't seem to have this problem.

Dillio, were you running in High Performance mode both times?

 

yes. I tried it in balanced mode and got the same results as well. Surprising to me too, I almost didn't even read this thread because I knew I didn't have an XX55 chipset! I'm going to leave the idle disabled on the high performance profile since that's what I use when plugged in, and leave it enabled for balanced (use on battery)

This should help out Adobe Lightroom a lot.

 

Will this solution work on a QM57 chipset? I will try out anyway and post the feedback.

 

You might first want to check if you have the problem before you try to fix it.

 

I decide to enable all attributes available regarding processor power management given by this trick
here is what I found

 

I have a feeling that electric utility companies across the globe are seeing a spike in energy use.

Sorry could not help myself

 

Wow, I saw all those in the registry and even tried adjusting of few, but I had no idea they would all appear in the power plan settings. Did you just select the opposite value (1 or 0) of any choices that had an enable or disable option ??

Now the big question is can you get some combination of those adjustables to allow the 'idle disable' to only effect 1 core or ideally just 1 thread (doubtful). Either way it would most likely keep the SSD performance close to max while significantly reducing the power draw and temps at idle. Almost need to make a spreadsheet to keep track of all the possible combination to try....

Good find. +rep

 

I have an E6410 at work with this chipset and a Samsung SSD, I will try this out tomorrow if I decide to go to work. I might say screw it and get an early start to the holiday weekend though

 

yep give me 1 year the time i try all the combinations
and yep i selected all opposite value toward 0 in fact

maybe lowering the processor idle demote threshold
processor idle demote threshold (specify the upper busy threshold that must be met before demoting the processor to a lighter idle state)

 

Yes, i do have the slow 4k problem on my HP 8740W with crucial C300 256GB. Remember this post and the trail of suggestion posts?.

 

Guys, I don't understand - it seems that everyone's sequential read speed is around 250 MBps. Mine is stuck at 200-210. What gives?

 

Oh yes I do.

Now you might want to try with HyperPI 32M in the background and see what that does to the CDM scores.

 

What brand of SSD do you have?

 

In my signature Corsair Force 120 (SandForce controller). My benchmarks are scattered throughout this thread (including Phil's original post).

 

Mine are a bit higher, but I imagine it's only because i have two in Raid0. If they were un-Raided, the speed should be about half.

 

Whew, I just tried all the individual settings with no luck in getting 1 core to reduce to idle (or park) state. Just doing that gave me a headache, one thing I'm unclear of is where you set the timing before it changes the applied settings; one option is at 7 and another is at 20 (IIRC) so I'm not sure how long to wait after applying changes to see if they take affect...

Now it looks like if there is a way to do this it will require a combination of more than one setting change.... I feel another headache coming on, LOL....

 

I found two interesting thread related to core parking
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/494232-how-adjust-core-parking-inside-windows-7-a.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/windows-os-software/486478-fix-win7-i7-sluggish-performance.html
maybe this can help
7 and 20? where did you get that?
it take effect as soon as you click ok

 

I'll take a look at those tonight, thanks. As to the 7 and 20, there are settings for how many cycles or counts to wait before a change in processor or idle states change. Not sure of the exact default numbers so 7 and 20 may not be correct, just not sure if there is a wait do to these settings, they must be to smooth put changes in the CPU idle / parking cycles based on demand and so it's not constantly jumping back and forth. Probrably talking about milliseconds....

I was just thinking that maybe I'm looking at this backwards and assuming 'disabling idle' is required just because it worked. With all the options to control the thresholds as to when core(s) go into an idle / park state maybe we should be looking at keeping the idle enabled and trying to reduce the threshold point were it leaves the idle 'C' state... If we can get a core out of 'C' state with lower CPU demand (say just SSD activity) then maybe we can leave the 'idle enabled' and still get higher 4K speeds while maintaining temps and battery life....

Any thought about this? Anyone...

 

That's what I tried with lowering processor idle time check to 500 microseconds
but it doesn't change results

 

double post sorry

 

Yeah, I actually tried 50 microseconds.

What I was talking about is all the different options for the CPU threshold adjustments (in percent) that tell things when to change from idle/park to 'active' etc.

 

haha funny

 

Just a heads up about this 'idle state' tweak.

I have played a little (okay, a lot! ) not only on the Inferno (SandForce) but also with a Seagate XT Hybrid too. Very interesting and unfortunately disappointing results.


I'll be making another thread hopefully by next week, but the most frustrating thing is that the results are so inconsistent. Arrghh!!!!

What I can state definitely though is that on a non SSD system that disabling idle states actually makes the computer slower (although very slightly).

Do others find the same thing too with their SSD based systems?

(For myself, I've determined that this is a 'no no' tweak on a mechanical based HD system).

All this tweak seems to have done is make the 'snappiness' of the system take front and center - but actual productivity is almost to the second; exactly the same.

Make no mistake: the benchmarks will make you smile (they jump that much); but actual real-world use is more tuned to 'snap' than to 'slam' (getting work done).

At this point between these two systems, the 'disabled idle state' SSD based computer is easily 'winning' on response time at the huge cost of battery life, heat generated and noise (fans).

But to counter point that 'win' is a two year old platform (or is it older?) that matches the current best of the best for actual work performed.

Thoughts?

I'm off to a shoot... so no replys for a while from my end.

 

With HyperPI in the background, the CDM is @ 25 MB/sec read and 45MB/sec for write. Without HyperPI, they are 16 and 24.

 

it could means that superPi doesn't let the cpu goes idle
comparing temp when running superpi and cpu idle disable could help

 

Whey you say CPU idle disable, you mean doing the registry tweak discussed here right? If so, i posted the CDM scores with and without HyperPI to show the difference before doing the tweak. Please note that i haven't done the tweak yet as mine is a QM57 chipset and want to know if it's ok to do it in this chipset.

 

Well 2 hours of playing with all these newly found power plan 'processor' options and I needed a break so I will give a progress report. Bottom line I think my idea of going about this in the opposite way may work. I am basically attempting to get the C state to turn off by reducing the threshold where the CPU turns it on. In other words to get the C state to go off with much less CPU demand while keeping the idle state enabled.

Here is my current CDM 4K results with 'idle enabled' and idle temps, with about 100 windows open, of 38C / 28C;

with idle enabled

Not as good as good as idle disabled but a significant improvement over the original numbers I was getting and so far it appears to have no extra power or temp impacts. I think this can still be improved, just so many variable it hurts the brain.....

EDIT: Here is a link to a MS win 7 whitepaper that has a 'cheat sheet' of all the processor power management settings and descriptions of what the actually control, feel free to jump in and play around with the settings and see what you can do.........

Processor Power Management in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2

 

NotebookGrail,

If you have an SSD (as you do!) you can't hurt anything by trying this for yourself.

But, what might be more helpful than simply posting the 'scores', is to see if along with the potentially higher scores there comes a consistent and measurable increase in actual real world performance.

To play it doubly safe: make sure your vents are dust free clean/blown out and also use a notebook cooler while you're testing.

I'm curious what your real world comparisions might show.

 

JJB, those number look good!

But, do they reflect a noticeable increase in actual use?

 

Haven't even tried to test real world use yet, up to my eyeballs in notes and setting comparisons. There are like 25 variable options, most with multiple setting levels or actual 0 to 100 value setting. Right now I am just trusting that the CDM 50MB runs (at idle) will show me if I am gaining or losing the battle all while keeping an eye on my idle temps to make sure they don't get out of hand.

 

JJB - Thanks. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you find in the end.

 

Yeah your seq. speeds look a bit low. You might want to try Atto, see if you get the same limits.

OK that confirms you have the issue. You might want to apply the tweak but keep in mind it will create heat and loss of battery life.

 

ok here is what i get
i7 620M X25E
idle disable, min proc 100%
prefetch, superfetch, readyboot on
64K cluster size
I notice better results in write when i wait at least 15 minutes after starting my lappy probably due to delay in start for some background program


the one on the right with min proc state 5% and idle enable

 

SSD R/W SPEED PROBLEM SOLVED!

I now have great SSD speeds accross the board with the idle still enabled and my full idle temps are 44C 35C and over the last 4 hours of trial and error tweaking with dozens of CDM runs my max temps never broke 55C All I have to do is select 'high performance' power plan and I get these numbers:

FULL CDM 50MB X 3
FULL CDM 1000MB X 3
TEMPS LAST 4 HOURS

My CPU is now idling at a 19X multiplier on 1 thread and the other 3 fluxuate between 14X an 18X (max turbo = 23X). I believe I can get these idle speeds down without impacting the SSD performance with some additional tweaking now that I have a feel for what's working. Need to rest my eyes now so I can't write up all the adjustments / instructions right now. Will try to get to it in the AM.

Even if I can't improve the idle speeds or temps this, for me, is a fully realistic and usable fix when I'm plugged in. Have not even tried on battery yet....

EDIT: Just check my CPU wattage at idle and it's ~7.2W so considering the normal idle is 5.5W I am pretty amazed, for reference when I used just the 'idle disable' tweak my CPU was idling at 19W

 

Can't wait for your eyes to be rest so you can write&post your solution.

tic, tac, tic, tac.....

 

I acknowledge I might be a bit gadget-addict, but this one is very cool as it shows the temp of each core of our CPUs. Just thought it would fit well to post it, here and now, as we're talking tweaking with temps monitoring, so I thought a gadget that resides on our desktop and which shows in real time the temps was actually a good idea...

Just go to the bottom of the page, download both All-cpu-meter AND CoreTemp, and install them. In CoreTemp, just go in settings and check the "Start with windows" and "Start minimised" options to do the trick, adn you're set-up.

Hope you'll find it as useful as I do.

eYe

 

Ok, I think I found the best settings that balance temps, idle power draw and SSD performance. Below is my last run of CDM and also showing my idle temps (5 minutes at full idle after run) and note the highlighted CPU power draw, it's almost the same as my original (power saver) idle of 5.5W

The only significant anomalies that I have found with these settings is with Turbo boost, My CPU will now max out at 2.93 in highest turbo setting instead of 3.06. This really isn't a big deal to me since it only ever hit 3.06 when just 1 core was maxed out, under a 100% load to all cores the turbo still goes to 2.8 which is normal. When running super pi it now uses 3 cores instead of just 1 (still 24% cpu load) and I believe this is part of the tweaks I made that keep the C state at a higher threshold to improve the SSD performance. Super pi now runs at 2.93Ghz instead of 3.06Ghz and takes like 40sec longer to run 32M, this I can live with but others may have an issue with it. Other than that I see no down side at all Note: this fix may need tweaking for other (non i5) CPU's.

This is going to take a while to post all the settings. mainly because of the small window for 'advance power plan settings' I guess I will have to make several screen shots due to all the 20+ new parameters....

I will also need someone to post the default High performance plan options since I did not copy them down first, that way I will be able to just show the changes to make. Exact instructions to what I need in next post.

Here are the results with idle temps and idle power, The max temps hit during all testing were 52C / 47C and idle was ~36C / 24C (70F ambient) :

The temps and 'power draw'shown are at idle 5 min. after the CDM run

PS: I forgot. I was able to get the multipliers way down while at idle with further tweaking this morning.

 

here they are
that' what we can call team work lol
it doesn't take too much time to print screen all the power windows

open power option windows
open paint

paint:25% zoom out (bottow right of the screen)
resize the white paint screen
move that power option windows to the bottow right
tweak the power option
print screen
paste
move the past screen under the power option windows to the bottom right
move/paste the power option print screen to the top left
start again