AMD Fusion Info Thread

@ abaddon4180

Bet your notebook with quad core AMD cpu and ATI gpu was cheaper than the Intel counterparts at same price point?

Here i could get a nice dual core Athlon II and ATI Radeon 5470m at the same price as a Intel Celeron 900 and Intel GMA 4500m.

 

They will. For 2011 Llano will be in the line up for notebooks. This will be a 2,3 or 4 core Fusion APU with the Phenom II Stars-core. The GPU will basically an HD5650. About the CPU itself. No, it won't be a big improvement as we already see these cores in todays products. But, Llano will have some cool extra's:

1. First of all, it will ofcourse have some improvements in the architecture.
2. Its on 32nm, so more energy efficient and maybe higher clocks will be available
3. They will feature a Turbo-boost option, just like intel.
4. It has power gating

And point 3 is where Intel actually wins. Sure, Arrandale is great and ofcourse has its benefits. But the Turbo shows the real improvement. The nasty thing is that you see the Turbo results in benchmarks. My i5 430M is an 2,53GHz CPU as it is constant in Turbo...

Power Gating makes it possible to disable parts of the chip, making it way more energy efficient. Bobcat will feature Power Gating as well.

Sure, Llano won't win from SandyBridge, but the Turbo Mode and Power Gating are great improvements. If the battery runtimes will equal Intel solutions and the Turbo Mode and clockspeeds will be comparable to the Core i5 series (i7's are rare), AMD really does a great job.

I also have a nice quote about Zacate:

IFA - Spezifikationen und Bilder von AMDs Fusion - News - Hardware-Infos

It's German where AMD said that Zacate will be faster then an Intel Pentium Dual-Core (Core architecture). I don't know what Intel Pentium they are talking about. But chances are there that they are hinting to the T4xxx (eg T4200, T4300, T4400, T4500) series rather than the 1,3GHz SU4100 culv. Based on AMD's current ulv solutions (1,7GHz, 15W TDP (Neo K665)) I give it a good shot at the T4xxx-series performance. Bobcat has 90% of the performance clockwise, while the die shrink and 50% die size would lower the energy consumption dramatically.

The HD5430, which will be the basis of the GPU consumes 7W according to notebookcheck. That probably will be tweaked as the memory controller and maybe some other logic kan be shared with the rest of the APU.

That could leave 11W-13W to spend on the clockspeecs of the bobcat cores to maintain the 18W TDP. 1300MHz is achieved by AMD today at 12W, 1700MHz at 15W and 2100 at 25W.

When looking at the 50% die size, 40nm production, I think that these cores could hit 2GHz or even more (maybe 2,4GHz). In that case, AMD's Zacate performance will be very close or on par with the Pentium Dual-Core processor.

 

Yep. I paid $680 for it during a 25% BCB and even now the same thing goes for $730 at Newegg

 

I find it a little disheartening that they're even comparing it to Pentium dual-cores. They could at least contrast it with a comparison to Core i UM processors.

 

Pretty sure the T series of Pentium processors are faster than the Core i ULVs

 

Well, an i5 520UM has a pretty fast turbo. But that chip is expensive, leaving most notebooks with an i3 330UM of even a Pentium Arrandale or Celeron Arrandale without Turbo Boost. The 520UM can be faster when boosting, but the other chips won't stand a chance.

And the i3 330UM and others aren't that great. 3 hours less battery time compared to the Core 2 Duo culvs, while the performance isnt better as well...

 

But they won't be faster than Sandy Bridge chips with the same TDP. For the past few years, AMD has always been fighting the last-gen Intels (and generally losing, forcing it to sell at lower prices).

Incidentally, the Llano release date now appears to be "Summer 2011" -- so basically a year from now. They will begin shipment in H1 2011 and the first laptops based on these should show up around the start of the back-to-school season.

Thus, AMD's 32nm process is 18-20 months behind Intel's (Arrandale was released last January and Zacate is 40nm). AMD needs to step up the pace -- unless Intel stumbles, Llano will only be around for a few months before the release of the 22nm Ivy Bridge.

 

Llano in the flesh:

 

Videos on Ontario:

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AMD Benchmarks Zacate APU, 2x Faster GPU Performance than Core i5

 

Is the fusion structure directed towards the mobile gaming branch? I'm talking high end gaming, not just counter strike source and Modern warfare 2 (on lowest settings). That's what I've really been curious about, cause if this new tech could make a G73 capable machine in 15 inches with 4+ hrs of battery then I think it's well worth the wait. I'm not exactly on par with the specific technicalities of computers so please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

I don't think so, it is an integrated GPU after all. If they included a really powerful GPU it would kill their discrete business and cause the "APU" as a unit to use too much power.

 

I'm impressed with AMD's openness and confidence. AnandTech got to get hands on with Zacate after the suspect results with the Core i5 notebook it was being compared to.

AMD's Zacate APU Performance Update - AnandTech

 

Zacate Fusion works at 1.6GHz

 

so AMD finally has a mobile quad core.

 

They've had a couple for months.

 

havn't paid attention to AMD. Intel has had their mobile quad core for almost 3 years now.

 

No USB 3.0 though for Bobcat right?

 

Fusion can change the market

 

Today's FUD is: Llano to come in Q3 2011

 

This is not entirely new (Q3 roughly corresponds to "Summer"), but if true, it would be very unpleasant for AMD. Llano's CPU side is very badly matched even against Sandy Bridge -- the latter is the best architecture Intel has thus far while the former is something more than 3 years old and crippled with a lack of cache to boot. Against Ivy Bridge (which on top of all that has the 22nm vs 32nm process advantage), it won't be even close. Worse, if Intel can deliver on its Ivy Bridge GPU promises, it will quite likely be equal to or better than Llano's.

That said, if AMD can actually release Llano before the back-to-school season, it'll still be OK (Intel is unlikely to release Ivy Bridge before CES in January 2012). If there are any further delays, Llano becomes more or less pointless (they might as well upgrade the CPU side to a mobile Bulldozer).

 

AMD readying three mobile Fusion chipsets

 

AMD: Fusion is Going to Be Unlike Everything We Have Seen Before

 

If they don't put USB3 they are going for a rough wakeup

 

No USB 3.0? Why?

 

Many non-power users don't care about USB 3.0, and I'm pretty sure the low cost market doesn't either. Where are the first Fusion APUs going? Netbooks and entry level notebooks.

 

Advanced Micro Devices CEO Discusses Q3 2010 Results - Earnings Call Transcript -- Seeking Alpha

And from the Q&A:

 

SemiAccurate :: AMD Demos Brazos

SemiAccurate :: AMD Demos Llano

 

Hot Hardware, Llano Reference test platform:

 

AMD VP hints at Llano graphics performance

 

AMD's Llano Production to Initiate in July 2011

 

That's not good at all. Last thing AMD needs is to lag even further behind Intel's refresh cycle.

Someone needs to build me a Hybrid Crossfire Bobcat+Seymour (or even Mob HD5470) in a 12" machine to hold me over until Bulldozer and Crossfire Southern Island.

 

At the rate this is going, Llano is going to be competing with Ivy Bridge rather than Sandy Bridge and AMD is going to be nearly a full process node behind Intel as far as laptops are concerned.

 

Yeah, sounds like AMD needs some magic to happen in the 32nm to 22nm transition or it will be behind for a long time..

 

That's not good at all. I'm looking forward to AMD's next platform, but these delays can't be good if they want to keep up with Intel.

 

Well, Bobcat will still be out before this year is over. So ulv Core i's will be getting competition.

 

Looks like AMD's only having problems with Llano, as everything else seems to be getting bumped up ahead of schedule.

SemiAccurate :: AMD to demo Bulldozer next week

AMD to Start Production of Desktop "Bulldozer" Microprocessors in April.

 

Can't wait for Bobcat, though I wonder why AMD is having so many problems with Llano?

 

I'd say its the combination of a full GPU, which AMD usually makes on a different process than its CPUs, and a full processor, assumed to be better than Thuban, on 32nm which is a new and untested process for AMD. I'm not sure why Bulldozer is ahead of schedule, but that is excellent.

 

Old tech on a new fabrication isn't always easier to manufacture than new arch on a new fabrication. AMD played the safer bet hoping the K8 arch would let them get to market with Llano by the end of 2010 but it obviously didn't work out.

Bad news is, at this point it's too late to abandon Llano entirely so AMD is just going to have go forward with it and depend on the ULV/ultra-thin and netbook market in 2011.

Good news is, if both Bobcat and Bulldozer are in good shape AMD's plans for 2012 may still be on track.

 

AnandTech has a preview of Brazos. There are no performance numbers (one more week...), but it quotes the relatively complete specs as well as where AMD sees this fitting in (look on the bottom of the first page; it's basically going to compete with Intel's Pentiums).

The TDP depends a lot on the GPU: 18W systems have it running at 500MHz whereas 9W systems run at 280MHz. There are 2 of each type (so 4 SKUs in all), a dual-core system and a single-core one. The dual-core ones run at 1.6GHz (18W) or 1.0GHz (9W) while the single-core ones run at 1.5GHz (18W) or 1.2GHz (9W).

To be honest, these clock speeds are a little slower than I expected. They'll beat Atom, there's little doubt of that, but Intel can probably take some Sandy Bridge CPUs, disable Turbo Boost, chop off some cache and have a part with similar performance (perhaps even for graphics!) and power usage. Whether they will want to play in that low-end market is a different matter.

 

AMD teases Bobcat Fusion APUs again, delivers Atom-busting performance (Engadget

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HardOCP
Hot Hardware
TechReport
PC Perspective
Legit Reviews

 

The fact that Intel would have to design something to take on Bobcat is the kind of win that consumers should be hoping for. :wink:

Bobcat is looking like solid arch that's just going to get better with time. Die shrinks. HKMG. SOI. Eventually even the new 4D GPU arch will make it's way down, cutting the number of SPU needed on die by 20%.

By the same margin that Intel can cut Sandy Bridge down to the low-end market AMD can potentially build Bobcat up into the mainstream market.

 

if they can scale it up to a 1600 spu 4d arch 8core monster i'm leaving intell behind

 

Hell, if they can include native USB3 support first, I'm leaving Intel behind.

 

Brazos Platform CPU's: (Techreport)


Legit Reviews:

 

AMD Llano APU mass production reportedly delays to 2H11

 

i'm not jumping on the wagon so fast and i'm likely skiping this generation to so it mathers verry little i'll likely jump on the one that get me the fastes mobile 8 core with the longest batterie life

 

It doesn't really make sense to start production of Llano in H2 2011. The interval between start of mass production and when the products are available to consumers is on the order of 3 months. At this point, it will be competing almost entirely with Ivy Bridge. Llano's CPU will probably be inferior to the higher end Core i5's out right now, it will certainly be inferior to Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge will not only utterly crush it as far as the CPU is concerned, but may also be competitive GPU-wise.

In a year, Llano will be a really dated part and AMD will have no choice but to compete on price as they've been doing ever since Conroe. They're better off making a buffed up version of Brazos and working on the CPU+GPU version of Bulldozer.

 

I disagree. Even if it's a limited production, that ends up not selling, being able to say Llano chips were shipped is important to AMD's image to investors. Yes consumers likely won't buy Llano over Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge but on the investment sheets it's still better to show an inferior product that's late than no product at all.

As for a Brazos alternative, it wouldn't be ready any sooner than a late Llano unless it was already in the works for the last few months, and there's no saying that it wouldn't have yield issues as well. If there's a problem with Glofo's 32nm process it's better that it's worked out then risk running into bad yields again on their next APU.