AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

LOL, wow showing your shill colors! Speaking for Robert, hmmmm…………

For a business machine full replacement is fine, we invested in the cause of upgradable HEDT for the enthusiast. That cause was lost!

Edit; oh OK, so you are saying TR is now a business class machine like Epyc, no longer for the enthusiast. We get it, although I do not understand why TRX for consumers and WRX for buisness!

 

Ahh, finally an Asus TRX40 motherboard

Asus ROG Zenith Extreme II TRX40 Preview
OC3D TV
Premiered 12 hours ago
Take a look at the full website preview: https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/c...


ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme TRX40 Motherboard Unboxing
Back2Gaming
Published on Nov 7, 2019
Let's unbox the TRX40 flagship for ASUS with the new ROG Zenith II Extreme TRX40 motherboard. 3rd-gen Ryzen Threadripper is coming and so is a new board featuring a new socket and a new chipset. The new TRX40 motherboards will feature the new sTRX4 socket from AMD and will not be backwards compatible with 1st- and 2nd-gen Threadrippers.


ROG Zenith II Extreme
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-Zenith-II-Extreme/specifications/

Don't drop the box.

GIGABYTE TRX40 AORUS EXTREME Motherboard Unboxing
Back2Gaming
Published on Nov 7, 2019
Just an unboxing of the new TRX40 flagship from GIGABYTE with the new TRX40 AORUS EXTREME motherboard. 3rd-gen Ryzen Threadripper is coming and so is a new board featuring a new socket and a new chipset. The new TRX40 motherboards will feature the new sTRX4 socket from AMD and will not be backwards compatible with 1st- and 2nd-gen Threadrippers.

 

IDK how much a water cooler helps performance, the 2x and 3x fan models are doing well enough - quiet and fast, but it will be fun to see how well it does with the added cooling.

PowerColor teases Radeon RX 5700 XT Liquid Devil
Published: 15th Nov 2019, 12:20 | 51 Comments
https://videocardz.com/newz/powercolor-teases-radeon-rx-5700-xt-liquid-devil

"As promised, PowerColor is set to announce its Liquid Devil graphics card based on Navi 10 GPU.

The RX 5700 XT Liquid Devil features a preinstalled EK water block and fancy blue lightning (probably RGB). The card is dual slot and comes with three different liquid coolants.

This is the first liquid-cooled Radeon RX 5700. In fact, this is the first-ever custom 7nm liquid cooled graphics card."


Powercolor RX 5700 XT Liquid Devil Evil Unboxing
Tech of Tomorrow
Published on Nov 9, 2019
Powercolor RX 5700 XT Liquid Devil Evil Unboxing. Today on TOT we take a first look at the all new Powercolor 5700XT a liquid cooled and awesome looking video card for the extreme gamer!


Ok, so watering cooled and overclocked it does help a tiny bit, but at what cost $$$?? I hope PowerColor wants to sell a lot of those WC units and prices them accordingly - cheap!!

Watercooled and Overclocked Radeon 5700 XT... Was it worth it?
Published on Jul 26, 2019
We watercooled the Radeon RX 5700 XT using the Special Edition EKWB Full Cover Waterblock... but how did it perform?


Jayz2cents - Watering Cooling is Fun!!

Jayz2cents - It exploded again!!! Color all over the place!!

Drip, drop, drop, drip...

Contemplating the 3950x build...

Getting some good results on 3950x ($750), nice CPU, nice price, and on the cheapest x570 ($150) motherboard with a 5700XT ($450) and a nice PCIE 4.0 SSD ($350 2TB or $189 2x 1TB) + 3200 CL14 memory ($150) it will have amazing 16c/32t CPU performance and good gaming @ 1440p/1080p for a "cheap" $2k+

For me it's far more exciting to have a 16c/32t CPU than an expensive GPU. I don't think 4k is worth it - I end up scaling it so I can read text comfortably anyway so it's a waste of money to me.

I enjoy 1440p / 1080p and the 5700xt is great for that, and that 16c/32t build will be way cheaper at 1/2 the price of that $4000 RGB build (Pauls HW below).

If HDR on 4k monitors gets real implementations, and HDR finally gets real gaming use, and AMD comes out with a 4k GPU that is a reasonable price, I might upgrade the monitor(s) and GPU later.

AMD R9 3950X Frequency vs. Temperature Scaling & 5.3GHz OC Stream Recap
Gamers Nexus
Published on Nov 15, 2019
We're covering how temperature impacts stock frequency on the R9 3950X, useful for evaluating how much CPU coolers matter for the 16-core Ryzen CPU.
Find our AMD R9 3950X review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3sNU...
And our AMD R9 3950X XOC livestream archive here (all 4 hours!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrsJp...

Spoiler: Details...

In this video, we're recapping some practical applications of our extreme overclock testing. This will help you determine which cooler you should buy for the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X by demonstrating just how much every couple degrees matters. We plotted about a 25MHz delta for every 4-7 degrees, depending on where on the scale it was. Separately, in the first half of the video, we ran Blender at 5.2GHz (just for fun) and matched an AMD Threadripper 2990WX. Discussion on Infinity Fabric cold scale is also included.

It's nice to see a AAA reviewer switching to AMD vs AMD in the 'ole $1k vs $4k build comparison.

I think I would have maxed out the GPU in the $1k build to a 5700XT to get best gaming bang for the buck - considering this is a gaming PC comparison with GPU vs GPU being the highest % of points determiner.

Someone suggested reversing it from 3600x / 5700 to 3600 / 5700xt, but really I'd stretch it to 8c/16t as that's the reaping of the Ryzen sweet spot. So a 3700x / 5700t and wisely save $ on everything else while making sure there is enough reliable power and 3200 CL14 memory.

Also, get a nice quiet 2x or 3x 5700xt, save up if you need to. Or, get a sealed quiet case without a window and sound damping material all around. Or swap off the blower cooler and put on a better fan / water block.

Where to start with the 3900x build?, how about stop wasting money on Nvidia? that would be a good place to start - I wouldn't get near that $cash$ sucking vortex -> $4000 for a gaming PC? Pfffft!!

$4000 PC vs $1000 PC: Is the Extra Power Worth the Money?
Paul's Hardware
Published on Aug 9, 2019

Spoiler: Build Specs

My ~$1000 BANG FOR THE BUCK Ryzen 3600X Build! (Ft. NZXT H510 Elite) - https://youtu.be/zUcY5Yfij30
My ~$4000 OVERKILL Ryzen 3900X Build! (Ft. MSI Lightning RTX 2080 Ti) - https://youtu.be/KICcblPsWr0

► PARTS LIST ($4000 PC)
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor - https://amzn.to/2LAvIDw
Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R RGB Liquid CPU Cooler - https://amzn.to/2lfpiym
MSI MEG X570 ACE ATX AM4 Motherboard - https://amzn.to/2lklI6i
2x Team T-Force Night Hawk 16 GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3600 Memory Kits - https://amzn.to/30xIl6w
Intel 660p M.2 2280 2TB PCI-E 3.0 x4 Solid State Drive - https://amzn.to/2jSRN4B
Aorus PCIE 4.0 2TB NVME M.2 SSD - https://amzn.to/2lkiRtX
MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB LIGHTNING Z Video Card - https://amzn.to/2lgCAKZ
Lian-Li PC-O11 Dynamic Razer Edition ATX Case - https://amzn.to/2ljR78T
EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750 W 80+ Gold Modular ATX PSU - https://amzn.to/2llkW96
2x Cooler Master SF360R ARGB 360mm (3x120mm) Square Framed Fan - https://amzn.to/2Y25ccU

► PARTS LIST ($1000 PC)
AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 6-Core Processor - https://amzn.to/2JjUg28
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard - https://amzn.to/2LyBUMi
G.Skill Sniper X 16 GB (2x8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory - http://bit.ly/2JuqLcA
Crucial P1 500GB NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD - https://amzn.to/2Gz8wlE
ASRock Radeon RX 5700 GPU - https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16814930019
NZXT H500 Mid Tower Computer Case - https://amzn.to/2Yvf1jG
Corsair CX 650W (2017) 80+ Bronze Power Supply - https://amzn.to/2ypcRDq

 

First, you get no right to discuss rumors as when I said that there wouldn't be backwards compatibility, it was you that pointed to a leak showing compatibility, IIRC. You engage in rumors all the time. You just are doing PR damage control.

Second, you quoted my language on "Do you see a problem?" In context, that was NOT in the overall larger write-up but was in specific response to a person claiming that the AM4 platform had the same bandwidth with a PCIe 3.0 40 lane system with the fundamental misunderstanding on how to utilize the lane bandwidth. As such, everything you said after was you trying to put spin on my write-up, NOT addressing the point relevant to the quoted language, which IS problematic in and of itself.

Third, my long write-up is MY analysis of the landscape. You can argue whatever you want. My assessment is my assessment, whether you or anyone else like it or not. You can spin it with soft factors, it doesn't negate the points I made on where the products stack up.

$50-400 - AMD products likely are go to.
$400-600 - If pure gaming, Intel 9700K to 9900KS may make sense
$500-800 - depends on mem bandwidth needs and PCIe lane count needs, consider mainstream AM4 for productivity, Intel sometimes for very specific workloads, and the 14-core Intel HEDT processor
$1000 - Buy the Intel 18-core CPU. AMD's offerings on 1st and 2d gen TR up to 16-core is slower, empirically, as are the 2970WX and 2990WX in many types of workloads, which will not and have not been resolved outside of Linux workloads.
$1400 and above - Buy AMD HEDT 3rd gen lineup.

There is NOTHING in that statement that is wrong, and looking at price and performance data, THAT IS A SOLID GUIDE FOR RECOMMENDING PRODUCTS FOR THIS GENERATION. I even mentioned Intel's power consumption AND security vulnerabilities.

Fourth, you ignore what I said to try to make it 3 16-core skus. Why? I directly stated in that write-up that even with the new board cost, so assuming TR4 is dead and you would have to buy TRX40 boards, thereby being only 2 SKUs, not 3 like you stated, that buying the new board AND the 16-core would be directly price competitive with Intel's 18-core while having the edge on performance, which is the gap in their product stack. I went through explaining in responses WHY the AM4 lane count was not sufficient for some people, and I pointed to memory bandwidth per core or thread may impact certain software, along with certain software not yet being fully compatible with higher core/thread counts. ALL of that is factually accurate.

Fifth, I gave my speculation on the real reason for a new board, VRM. I did not belabor the point. I said AMD should be upfront, set the generational cadence, and move forward with that understanding with the community.

Sixth, I stated clearly that they improperly managed consumer expectations. They have stated they knew some would be upset and ruled it as acceptable losses (seeing people purely as numbers). That's fine, but you admitting that and trying to spin them considering consumers as disposable is MORE damaging to their PR than anything I said or did with this analysis. You need to make customers feel wanted or special. YOU just literally made the argument that AMD does NOT care about a segment of consumers because they sell too little volume to give a crap. YOU are hurting their image while playing damage control. GOOD JOB, YOU!

Seventh, you acknowledge we are enthusiasts, then proceed to tell us how WE do computing. Do you see a problem there? You are telling someone with enough knowledge to know their own systems and deployments WHAT THEY WANT. Are you really that ignorant? If we already understand our wants and needs, along with expectations, better than you because we are ourselves, then you trying to tell us about ourselves MAKES NO SENSE. STOP IT!

So you took a fairly neutral write-up singing AMD's AND Intel's successes and failures and turn it into something that is seen as needing to defend AMD against? NO ONE WINS IN EVERY CATEGORY ALL THE TIME. Acknowledging where one is weak or exposed is the first step in strengthening one's defenses. I point to a glaring hole in the product lineup, distinguish prior events from current events, and espouse my conclusions. Learn to deal with unfavorable facts.

Eighth, Please point me to the data showing that the 2990WX sold better than the 2950WX, because I'm calling BULL on that claim. Seriously, show me the data on that and I will have to reassess my analysis. Without that, though, you are full of crap and using the failure of the 1900X as a justification (which my facts laid out an alternative explanation for that failure).


This shows that the 2990WX was being outsold by the 2950X and the 1950X in those months of this year. If I took a bit more time to look it up, I could find more recent numbers. The point remains, though, that the 16-core was moving more volume with the DIY crowd than the highest end SKU, negating your point.

And that is why it is absurd to attack my analysis in the way you did. You do yourself a disservice!

Edit: And that is before pointing out your contradictory statements to upgrade to a 2970WX or 2990WX on this platform, then here state that doing so is only for people on mainstream enthusiast builds while ignoring that there is a large portion of the HIGH END DESKTOP segment that are ENTHUSIASTS, which do at times upgrade their CPUs. People upgrade and swap out graphics cards as well. Are you saying that those that do so are elitists, changing out their compute instead of buying a whole new system?

Point on that is that trying to say one thing, then the opposite, whatever is convenient to support your current narrative, exposes yourself as an opportunist. If that always goes to the benefit of one company, that makes you a shill. Not saying that is what you are, but saying let's look at the record and draw our own conclusions...

Edit 2: Another example of lane distribution gone wrong on AM4 platforms using the 3GPU, 3NVMe example that a user proposed (personally, I think an LSI card for 8 sata/sas drives and a high speed NIC like a fiber 10Gbps-40Gbps is potentially more realistic alongside the NVMe drives and 1-2 graphics cards, but that is my thoughts, so I'll explore that after).

What if the MB has an 8/8 split, followed by the third x8 slot hanging off of the chipset. You then have two high end graphics cards less impacted, but still potentially impacted if say it is a V100, etc., while the third card then shares the bandwidth equivalent of a PCIe 3.0x8 with two NVMe drives that take up that much bandwidth as well, along with SATA and whatever else is on the chipset, thereby causing a bottleneck. The NVMe off the CPU is fine. So the chipset is overprovisioned 2:1 and in some cases, like running raid NVMe, would make the third card useless if that is running doing large file writes while doing certain tasks.

Now, with the second example, two graphics cards in 8x/8x are in the same position. But then you need likely an 8x slot for the LSI HBA/RAID card, plus an additional x8 slot, depending on the NIC. So that is 4 slots needed, which few x570 boards have. Plus, the NIC and storage would be sharing the overprovisioned chipset bandwidth to the CPU, along with any NVMe drives routed through the chipset, which may be used as cache drives for the LSI storage array to speed up writes.

Overprovisioning can at times be common and handled, but I am doubting that the AM4 X570 platform is optimized for it like servers are, nor are drivers for consumers. An Intel HEDT platform could handle that rig. AMD's extra lanes definitely could handle that setup and potentially be running both graphics cards in x16 instead of x8, have all of the add-in cards off of the CPU (48 lanes), then have the NVMe running off the CPU for at least 1 of the three populated slots (one is for stand alone OS, the other two are for storage cache in raid 0 to the LSI storage array).

So when I say the AM4 is insufficient for some people, I can give NUMEROUS configurations showing how an HEDT user may be unable to consider AM4 at all. It all is based on a per use basis, though, and I do show that with the numerous examples, as each shows different configurations.

 

Figuring $850 for a 16 core TR Zen2 I do not think it worth the cost as an upgrade to the 1950x or 2950x. Now if it were x399 compliant it would be a no brainer instead of the other 16 core variants on a new install.

Other argument too is once the 3980x and 3990x are out the 3960x and 3970x will no longer be the top end SKU's. So excuse me if I no longer believe AMD.

 

You aren't making any sense, or being accurate in your information, why?

The price for the 3950x is $749 not $850, have you run across a link that shows the price is $850? What is the reasoning behind that $101 higher price? Did you find another rumor or speculation that is behind this specific price? Links?

How does AMD coming out with even higher core count CPU's cause you to no longer believe AMD?

I would think as an AMD owner and user you would be thrilled at the constant progress and amazing performance AMD is releasing at better and better price performance.

It's almost like the more AMD succeeds, the less you like AMD?

What's really going on with you? What are you really complaining about?

 

Finally AMD is getting some traction in Laptops, even if it's only in the 2in1 4c tier.

AMD is Making Laptops Affordable
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Nov 16, 2019
This was going to be a standard showcase… until we realized just how good the Ryzen 5 3500U processor was.


Lenovo Flex 2 in 1 on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PB5M8DS

There is also a laptop version with a Ryzen 7 3700u:

2019 Newest Lenovo Flex 14 2 in 1 Convertible Premium Laptop:14" FHD IPS Glossy Touchscreen, AMD Ryzen 7-3700U, 20GB Ram, 512GB SSD, WiFi, Bluetooth, Webcam, HDMI, Backlit-Keyboard, FP-Reader, Win 10
https://www.amazon.com/Newest-Lenovo-Convertible-Premium-Laptop/dp/B07XFJ4RH2

 

I meant assuming about $850 for a TR 16 core, not that it exists. I am saying I do not think I would want that for an upgrade.

As far as consumers only want the top end SKU's, well then the 3960x and 3970x eventually will no longer be that.

 

AMD has nothing in the notebook sector that competes even remotely with Intel.

That video is for idiots. Comparing a 2019 CPU to an Intel chip from 2.5 years ago.

What a surprise, updating drivers makes a difference. But still gets stomped (by the entry-level i5 grandpa Intel chip) even with 50% more RAM.

@hmscott, you're a hopeless (AMD) case.

 

You and @ajc9988 were complaining that AMD didn't offer the Zen 2 ThreadRipper 3 16c / 24c / 32c CPU's on x399 TR4, if you have changed your thinking on that I agree.

I also wouldn't want any of the new ThreadRipper CPU's - 16c / 24c / 32c on x399 as that would be a waste of the potential of the new ThreadRipper CPU's.

The new TRX40 platform has throughput benefits that will further enhance the performance of the new ThreadRipper 3 CPU's over and above what the x399 platform could offer.

It totally makes sense to me why AMD would only offer the new ThreadRipper CPU's on the new TRX40 motherboards.

Right, that's literally how that works.

Spoiler: How it works.

Over time as new better CPU's are released into a product class, if they outperform the previous fastest models, then the new models take on the top spots and the previous generation top performers are now lower performance models that are either discontinued or kept on to cover a price performance point lower on the product line up.

Often if the product roll-out is wide enough in breadth it is subdivided over time, with some released 1st, some released 2nd, and even some released 3rd and 4th. With models crossing the barriers between Consumer, Prosumer, and Professional as part of the progress.

That divided release is done to maximize attention for each product release to give them a chance to be seen and evaluated in a clear field, before releasing the next models up or down in the lineup.

AMD released the 5700XT / 5700 and now months later they release more models in the lower performance ranges, and I hope a 5800XT and 5900XT range of models will follow next year.

AMD didn't pre-announce or undermine their 5700XT / 5700 sales by siphoning off buyers with promises of future models, even though they were under development or already heading toward production.

All companies that have new products in development won't cut their own throats by making pre-announcements of higher (or lower) performance models, they focus on making the best offering they can for the models that they are releasing or have released right now.

That's why it's best to patiently wait while having fun with what you have in front of you right now. If it does what you want, then great get it and enjoy it. If it's not what you want, then either be patient and wait - or look elsewhere if you need something right now.

In the end with computer hardware everything is superseded and outmoded in a relatively short period of time by new product releases.

It's very expensive to continually have the top performing computer hardware all of the time. Even more so as you climb up the performance ladder through the top of the consumer market toward the top of the HEDT - and beyond.

Once it gets past "fun and games" and becomes serious business the cost of staying current is prohibitive unless you have a profit making purpose for the hardware to pay for and justify it's expense.

HEDT is one of those markets where you can be on top one day and the next you are $10k-$100k+ away once again from the top of the ladder.

Will there be 48c / 64c ThreadRipper 3 models eventually? We really don't know, we can only speculate, but you can't purchase speculation, bolt it together, and run CB15 on it under LN2, can you?

 

The first report I've seen comparing the TR4 and sTRX4 sockets:

AMD Ryzen Threadripper sTRX4 & TR4 Socket Pin Layouts Detailed – Vastly Different Config on 3rd Gen TRX40 Platform
By Hassan Mujtaba, Nov 15
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-strx4-tr4-socket-layout-detailed/

"The pin layout of AMD's Ryzen Threadripper sTRX4 and TR4 sockets has been detailed by Hwbattle who have compiled a full pin configuration map for the two sockets. It looks like with the updated pin map, we shouldn't expect any kind of compatibility with the older TR4 socket-based CPUs even if the sockets look visually identical.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper sTRX4 & TR4 Socket Pin Configuration Detailed - Different Electrical Changes Equal Zero Compatibility With Older Ryzen Threadripper CPUs
...
Today, HwBattle has released the first pin layout of both the sTRX4 and the TR4 socket which shows just how much of a difference there is between the two sockets. Right from the start, we could not[e] that on sTRX4, lots of pins that were previously unused by the TR4 socket have been enabled. The pin count is still 4094 for the socket itself for the SP3 socket but the revised naming should be considered here. The sTRX4 SP3 socket has more pins enabled than the TR4 SP3 socket."

...See the website for socket pin out graphics and more....

 

I know you don't like bench numbers but the entry-level i5 BGA Intel chip will still hang on with same or even higher performance New ain't always better if some think so. It's not all up to the chips but how hard the ODM/OEM prefer to cripple it with nasty firmware.



https://hwbot.org/submission/3946734_papusan_cinebench___r15_core_i5_8250u_749_cb

 

That's how I've always viewed HEDT, as business oriented class of hardware that needs to be budgeted for and justified by potential earnings by it's application to work to offset the costs.

Yes Epyc and ThreadRipper products are 2 distinctly higher performance business class hardware lines. Both have a much higher cost associated with ownership that businesses with profitable pursuits can justify the costs

Neither are typically purchased new for entertainment and the shear joy of ownership. They are both far in excess of what the average consumer can justify spending for personal use.

Myself, I have nothing against personal ownership of HEDT, or other task oriented Workstations, or server class machines. If you can afford to purchase them, pay the costs to operate and service them, and upgrade them when it comes time - if you so desire - then fine, it's your money - have at it.

Complaining about the high cost of upgrading HEDT hardware is an unusual thing for me to hear. In the HEDT world either the project justifies the cost or you find another cost appropriate solution.

 

I'm with @hmscott here. I find this whole thing to be ludicrous. AMD has been releasing amazing hardware for the past few years -- the Zen 2 parts are really raising the bar -- and all you can find to complain about is that AMD isn't keeping a promise that they never made. Oh, and that they aren't catering precisely to what you want.

AMD never once claimed, that I'm aware, that they would continue to release new TR4/X399 chips They made general statements about continuing to support Zen for a while (which doesn't necessarily mean that they'd release the exact chips you want) and a specific statement that they would continue to support AM4 through 2020 (which thus far they've kept to). How you go from that to a promise that they would keep releasing new X399-compatible parts is not terribly clear to me.

The suggestion that they release 16-32 core parts for TR4 and 48-64 (or 16-24 vs. 32-64 -- it hardly matters) for TRX40 simply doesn't make any sense to me, unless you care only about the specific lower end parts. The two chipsets probably speak different protocols, making for more complexity in building the chips. It would simply exchange the TR1/TR2->TR3 incompatibility for a TR3small to TR3large incompatibility. So someone buys, say, a 3960X but later decides that the 3980X or 3990X (assuming that they will exist) are necessary, then *they* have to replace their motherboard, just so you don't. Does that really make a lot of sense?

I'm becoming less and less convinced that the promise even for the AM4 was such a great idea. Maybe you'll be able to run a hypothetical 4900X or 4950X on an X370 or X470, but will that really be such a great idea? Anandtech's review suggested that the 3950X is showing indications of memory bandwidth limits even on the X570, and if Ryzen 4 is faster, that will only make matters worse. If your workload really is compute-bound that won't matter of course, but that's certainly not true for everything.

Meanwhile, if you have a 2990X that's so useless for you or something, I'd be very happy to take it off your hands for an attractive price, which shouldn't be so hard since it's obviously not worth very much. That would be a nice step up from my 2700X, which I was forced into by the untimely death of my i7-5820K.

 

Buildzoid analyzes:

Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme Threadripper 3 Motherboard Analysis
Gamers Nexus
Published on Nov 16, 2019
This is our first look at an AMD Threadripper 3 motherboard, featuring the Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme XL-ATX board. Buildzoid looks at the PCB and VRM of the board. The Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme TRX40 motherboard is our first of several Threadripper 3 boards we'll be analyzing for AMD's new HEDT Ryzen launch. The CPUs are expected to ship on November 25th, now officially announced by AMD, and the boards should follow. Threadripper 3 will include the 24-core/48-thread TR 3960X and 32-core/64-thread TR 3970


B450 motherboard with a $750 CPU? Why not get a x570 and get all of the value from the Zen 2 CPU? I like the Asus $150 low end feature set x570-model's, but there are others.

Ryzen 9 3950X on Good & Bad B450 Motherboards
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Nov 16, 2019

 

I am with AMD that 16 core moved too the AM4. No reason to have 2 different chips except in the occasion where TR I/O was needed. Better there, IMHO, just to offer a 24 core.

My point is they know not only the high end will be purchased otherwise why eventually offer a 24, 32, 48 and 64 core? It is tough when you say one thing but do another.

No it is too late now, they have made the decision to not have x399 for Zen2 TR. Once the decision started going forward it is the way things will be. So apparently AMD realizes changing the pinouts enough to make the low end TR's not work on x399 would upset people. Especially not letting them know of a planed change to EOL the chipset at Gen2. Please contact AMD and let them you know their business better than they do.

Now what do I want them to do, well nothing I can see to be done. Other than realize a lot of enthusiasts will never trust their words again. Now in hind sight if they would have said at putting TR4 back on the map that x399 was Gen2 EOL, it might have hurt sales slightly but only to those DIY enthusiasts that would be looking to upgrade. Not to businesses looking to replaces systems all together.

 

Well your comments, if you read them, are making representations from both AMD and Robert. The personal comment I made is not that you are a "shill" as I (nor anyone I know) have proof that you are. My comment in context is that your response was as if you were a representative of, or representing, the entities. Nothing more and nothing less.

And too all WE all as moderators will not tolerate generalizations to try and slip in name calling. That is against TOS!

 

AMD willing to test water and ditch consumers that bought TR1/2 because those are small in numbers. they are most likely after intel group of users whos always use to paying $2000+ for just CPU and mobo for biggest margin. Su stated AMD going after margin its the only way to pull themselves out of debt considering they dont have the manufacturer capability like intel.

this means no more budget brand from AMD, zen2/3 on AM4 might be the last few years of value/budget until intel is ahead once again.

 

That's an Intel way of looking at things, because that's what Intel has done for years - except Intel has been proven to have done the socket change(s) unnecessarily.

I believe AMD, because AMD don't have the horrendous record that Intel has lying so consistently for decades on end.

Intel I don't believe in many things, but I still give Intel the benefit of the doubt on many things because Intel can't operate on all 100% lies all the time, there's gotta be some truth in there some of the time, right?

Intel may have ruined your trust in such things, but I divorced myself and my mind space from Intel's BS for long enough I can trust others again.

Trust, but verify.

 

I agree Intel, and others, have had their issues. Now we have AMD joining the fray. Just because I say I no longer trust AMD, what makes you think I trust others?

 

With all this talk about AMD's Robert Hallock, I thought I'd find some background info on him, and here AMD has provided just that kind of video, along with Robert delivering the AMD Fall 2019 Desktop Briefing:

I Am AMD: Robert Hallock
AMD
Published on Aug 6, 2019
Meet AMDer Robert Hallock (Senior Technical Marketing Manager): gamer, watch collector, and apparently, quite the fan of a certain color scheme.


AMD Fall 2019 Desktop Briefing (Robert Hallock)
Tech ARP
Published on Nov 7, 2019
AMD Fall 2019 Desktop Update : https://is.gd/PkSGBC
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X : https://is.gd/nNijjc
AMD Athlon 3000G : https://is.gd/pZ0WLj
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper : https://is.gd/DeQEKo
3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Eco-Mode : https://is.gd/CkTaI4

 

Simply put, it's much harder to improve single thread performance, and only getting more difficult. This ultimately comes down to physics, the speed of electrical signals propagating through wires (which itself comes down to the speed of light) and the fact that matter is made up of atoms and isn't continuous. Shrinking components does reduce path lengths, but it also means that the width of a path decreases, which increases signal loss and can result in more errors, which have to be corrected. Clever tricks like branch prediction help, but they're far from perfect and as we've seen if not done very carefully can result in information leakage.

It's a lot easier to add more cores, which can operate independently. Of course, multi-threaded programming is more complicated itself, but ultimately parallel programming is the only way that's going to markedly improve performance.

It's not true that almost everything is bound by single thread performance at the parallelism levels we're at today with consumer and HEDT processors. There's a lot going on in the background, and more code is multi-threaded than you might think. A lot of games infamously don't utilize high levels of parallelism, but that's going to have to change and there's no inherent reason I can see why a lot of gameplay shouldn't be multi-threaded.

Read up on Amdahl's Law to learn about the limitations of parallelism.

 

Since AMD never gave their word or even stated publicly any intent to carry TR4 forward, I just don't understand these claims of a broken promise. They were very clear in all public-facing statements to state AM4 would be carried forward until 2020. If their original plans were to carry TR4 forward but things didn't work out that way in practice, that was your choice to believe rumors.

I really, really doubt that very many people are that upset over the situation. I suspect very strongly that a lot more people are very happy to have much cheaper and faster 12- and 16-core alternatives; those that really need the I/O can move up to Threadripper or go with some of the smaller Epyc chips (which aren't really a lot more expensive than the same size Ryzens). Yes, either way that means a new motherboard, but you can get motherboards for a lot less money than processors.

It sounds like you're simply unhappy about what AMD decided to do, but I don't believe you have any cause for complaint that AMD was dishonest.

 

Yes they are, those that looked forward too x399 and some zen2. All leaks, even the geekbench, were showing Whitehaven as the chipset. This was, and is, x399. The appearance is when TR was removed from the map is when a decision was made to not make x399 upgradable, they can correct me if I am wrong here. Very few of us, those that are upset, would have appreciated a heads up a new chipset would be REQUIRED. It is only the DIY enthusiasts that built into the 19XXx and 29XXx that are affected. While we are few and far between we are the cash cows and the loudest of the groups as usually we are at the highest end of the tech spectrum.

Dishonesty by exclusion, they should have let us know early on, it would have made very little difference in sales. Again we can only anticipate and make plans with known info. I would have appreciated some backwards compatibility as the old chipsets apparently did work but those two boats have now sailed. So again there are going to be a few people that are upset and AMD knew this, so you can blame AMD that you need to hear it as they also knew we are verbal if nothing else.

On a side note there will be some that are somewhat happy, This as since it is not an upgradable chip some people will not buy at first leaving stock out there for those of us that can afford it and a new main board. While I am one of these later enthusiasts I speak for the others too.

 

Once again:


Leaks.

Are.

Not.

Promises.


Nor is AMD required, or even particularly expected, to respond to leaks. You rely on leaks at your peril. Some of the leaked specs on the 3950X were really impressive (5.0GHz boost, $599 or even $499 price), but that put no obligation on AMD.

 

Loudest? Maybe (although I suspect there was rather more disappointment, in terms of number of people, when AMD announced that X470 boards weren't going to get PCIe gen4, period). Cash cows? When you are self-admittedly few and far between, and not even willing to shell out for a new motherboard, not likely. Especially if, as appears likely, using X399 would have hurt performance/functionality overall for the entire TR product line.

As for using the new chipset only for the 48/64 SKUs (if they even do come out), that would be a lot more expensive, as they'd have to engineer two otherwise almost identical parts. And the idea of bifurcating the product line would really screw people who started with a 3970X but wanted to upgrade later to a 3990X, right? Or, for that matter, someone who wants to upgrade from a 3970X to a 4970X -- then they would have to buy a new motherboard.

 

Again they knew of the chipset change and said nothing, if you do not understand why people are upset speak to AMD, they knew it was a contentious decision that people would be upset as they were purposely misleading. I can not help that AMD knew they were making a contentious decision that purposely would upset a few. Myself if I wanted it I would just pay for it, I could easily afford several. I would have just got a new chip and threw the 1950x in the drawer, since I do not need it to begin with it is not as enticing to throw a chip and main board to the side now that I am no longer a fan.

As far as leaks for 3950x, we all knew 5.0 GHz even water cooled was a joke. Again price, at least at these levels, is not an issue. The market will bare what it bares. No pcie 4.0 on x470, that would have been fine for x399 as well.

Edit, if x399 were use I think only the 24 and 32 core would have worked. I could be wrong but trx4 would have still been needed for 48 and 64 core. Pins could have been mapped to not effect TRX4 but I agree it might have involved more work on AMD's side. I mean x370 works fine without hurting x570 performance!

 

Sounds like someone got used to goodies like upgradeable chipsets and insider promises and now is disappointed for not getting it again. Get real, go back to ground - that's what I would suggest.
AMD is a business afterall and if they could spare promises and news - they would. But business decision told otherwise and as long as it is not breaking promises or overgreediness then how can someone blame them.

Make your own decisions: whether customer type (not buying one) or business type (building your own CPU fab). But don't get emotional where situation isn't worth of it. General advice to anyone.

 

theres no such thing as "intel's way". this is simply business and Su is doing what she can for the company. honestly AMD doesn't give a damn about me or you if it'll bring them money.

the fact you sees this as intel's way or AMD's way tells me you are indeed biased.

 

It tells me I am more aware of what is really going on. AMD does not have a history of lying and deception causing me to doubt AMD's statements. Intel has a long history of lying and deception and indeed has been caught lying about the reason for changing the socket so often - this is the "Intel way" I am speaking of.

That's why you keep getting fooled by Intel, that's why Intel could get away with selling 4 core CPU's for a decade.

The Intel way is overcharging for CPU's and the only reason Intel is dropping their prices is because AMD has come back into the market with a competitive CPU technology allowing AMD to be able to use their usual "fair business practices" and set the prices for their products fairly.

That's the AMD way, and has always been their way, when they are in the market Intel has to treat their customers "at least as honest as AMD" in order to be competitive. Once AMD isn't competitive Intel has free reign to be their dishonest selves and we are all back to being screwed by Intel.

That's why I try to encourage people to buy AMD to take the power to screw us away from Intel.

Intel's Way is why you are so programmed to expect deception as to also expect AMD to lie and also causes you to try to apply "Intel's Way" on everything AMD does - as you expect lies.

Intel has caused you to be a shell shocked customer expecting lies and deception at every turn the vendor makes.

AMD doesn't do things the "Intel way".

 

amd is doing the intel's way though

definitely tells me you are blind and biased

 

That's why I am trying to help you pull off the "Intel's Way" filters whenever you look at AMD and try to figure out what they are doing.

Biased as in knowing the difference between Intel's Way and AMD's way, based on decades of working with both companies, I know what to expect from one vs the other. While apparently you have only worked with Intel and only know how they do things.

Eventually a socket change is needed for a platform upgrade, it's not something that is usually advertised because it would kill sales. We all know that and expect that sometime along the life span of a platform it's going to happen.

Intel's changes while similar aren't based on truth because they've been caught lying about the need for the socket changes.

If AMD is caught lying like Intel then sure things would change, but AMD haven't done this in a deceptive way - while Intel has lied about it time and time again.

AMD has done many socket changes over the years and has not lied about any of them. That's the difference.

That's why when Intel opens their mouth we doubt what they say - every time. That's my bias, and your bias too, except I am not applying that bias against AMD because AMD doesn't lie like Intel.

 

people are getting upset I no longer trust AMD nor am a fan any longer, I am not upset just learned my lesson well. It is not Intel's way, it is a business model. AMD were originally basing on they were a different business model in the compatibility respect, but they do whatever anyway.

I retired in 2011 but built a 1950x system as I was a fan of their upgradable promise and intent. easily 4x the system I needed and probably 4x the money too. I would have upgraded to zen+ but it was a disappointment, as I am sure it was for others. Zen2 on 16 core is not really that big an upgrade but since the 1950x is still easily 10x the system I need I may have done that. Honestly with 24 cores as a drop inn it would have been a no brainer. So no matter what if I go with a 24 core it would be 20x the system I need and probably my last ever purchase/build. I am 62 but already on 4 years of borrowed time.

 

So just so I understand, you're saying that AMD should have broken socket compatibility between members of the Zen 2 Threadripper family just to preserve socket compatibility with Zen/Zen+?

 

Was your work field building computers? Did you have a long history with knowing how the market works - what with socket changes happening every 2-4 years? That's how it's always been.

Intel started cutting down the length of how long sockets were good while AMD kept them longer, but still eventually every platform needs to change the socket. Traditionally we don't get much warning of the change. Most of the time it's the day of the announcement, like this time.

AMD has a long history of keeping their consumer line socket changes announced in advance, and have done that in order to keep consumers away from the normal "shock" of that change, because they are not used to that practice in the business world.

AMD doesn't do that for the HEDT and Server markets, and it's only because there was more crossover this time between the Consumer and Server markets that there are a small number of enthusiasts that have tried to treat the HEDT market like it's the Consumer market, and it's not.

There's nothing AMD could have done differently. AMD needs to be flexible enough to move their capability quickly in HEDT - pushing for the best every time - to stay competitive.

In the Consumer Market things usually move more slowly and AMD can keep Consumers with a stable environment for longer.

As @rlk said that may be holding AMD back in the Consumer market as the 16c 3950x is held back by memory throughput in some benchmarks. While that is true it happens toward the end of every socket cycle for AMD, that's the trade off for having a stable socket longer - and in the Consumer market that's what AMD can and will do.

Over time things change but I think AMD will continue to do keep the socket stable for a long time in the Consumer market and give plenty of warning as to when it will change, as it is AMD's way, and Consumers expect it hence the surprise by Consumers at how HEDT is treated differently.

AMD is trying to move the bottom end of HEDT into the stable Consumer market - now that Consumers are finally demanding higher performance higher core count CPU's than they have in the past - there are lots of 1 person shops opening up as individuals acting as Creative entrepreneurs that need more compute than previous Consumer lines offered, and couldn't afford HEDT. AMD's ThreadRipper allowed those "Consumers" in small business to venture in to HEDT, but the rules there are different as they've found.

It's a tough balancing act that is new for AMD because of the blurring of the lines between Consumer and HEDT - AMD moving CPU's down from HEDT to Consumer hopefully will allow AMD to provide stable environment with everyone that needs it and expects it, while allowing HEDT/Server to move as freely as the technology demands.

This my own opinion, not based on any inside knowledge or special access to any information - other than 40+ years in the computer industry. I've seen and watched these promises and trends for decades, and AMD is stable in being an honest corporation. My consistent recommendations over many years are based on my industry experiences. My opinions and recommendations to you all are made with firm experience behind them.

Sure AMD make mistakes, but unlike Intel they don't operate on lies as a matter of business. Intel are the exceptional over achiever in the world of deception. There are other businesses like Intel that work from deception, but there are still plenty of honest businesses I've worked with over the years and I seek to support them when it's possible.

There are honest people in the world of business, find them and support them as they are a dwindling resource. Work hard to be honest in business if not for your customers, then do it for yourself.

Avoid supporting dishonest businesses and tell them why you won't do business with them, and tell others as well - it will keep them honest.

 

Yeah, that's why AMD couldn't do it, it would create a confusing fractured compatibility problem for support - what inexperienced person would know by looking at the motherboard or CPU as to which was compatible with the other?

Every platform eventually needs to migrate to the next and it's rare when you can split the generations as compatible in the same socket if you are also increasing chipset to CPU communications or adding memory and IO lanes.

As I took great effort and time to write clearly, a company can not afford the financial burden, work within the time constraint limitations of development and production to waste resources duplicating CPU designs between the old generation and the new generation to carry forward the old generation of motherboards, that's not how it works in the business world - it would be too costly.

Businesses buy whole new computers - they don't en masse upgrade 100-1000's of motherboards, and they don't upgrade CPU's en masse - they replace entire tested and validated working computer - not CPU's or motherboards because that is too labor intensive and fraught with mistakes and errors that can negatively affect production.

It's safer, easier, and also cheaper to simply upgrade 1000 new chassis, with new motherboard, new CPU, new IO, etc. than pull apart 1000 computers and do CPU / Motherboard upgrades.

Business deals with computer upgrades much differently than enthusiasts expect.

 

See, I've gotten more bs pushback here and at OCN than on AMD's own forum post announcing the 3950X and TRX40 chips. Kind of amazing.

But we are in the majority, it seems. Many are upset at one of two issues: 1) no drop in compatibility, or 2) no offering on the HEDT at the 16-core price point (meaning around $900 and willing to buy a new board). Both are similar complaints, but are distinct. And I feel the consumers upset on either count may have believed either solution would have been roughly acceptable.

Just kind of a shock that the AMD forum is the only place I had no one trying to defend AMD and had an actual conversation on my write up I posted above with one of their longtime forum participants that answer questions about AMD issues, specifically that AM4 doesn't have enough lanes. The handle was HardcoreGames TM.

We also mentioned what changes we'd like to see in the future, including closer to 40 PCIe lanes on mainstream platform.

Which, it almost makes me wonder if we will see a new split off soon for segmentation. If they do, I'd recommend the following:

Entry: current mainstream offerings for motherboards like 16-24 PCIe, stick mITX mATX, APUs, etc., and start tailoring that to more specialized type builds for SFF, etc.

Mainstream: this is 40-48PCIe lanes like Intel's current HEDT lineup. Has more robust MB features, including VRM. Able to do gaming enthusiast, AV enthusiast work, etc.

HEDT: this is where the 64-96 PCIe lane systems live. It would offer more workstation and business centric optimizations, but still have enough some enthusiasts may explore the option. This should potentially have overclocking and non-overclocking variants.

Server: what we all know and love. High lane count, memory channel count, etc.

Just a thought since AMD wants to try to force people onto the mainstream platform. If this is what they are doing moving forward, then they should plan for changing the mainstream platform in 2021 AND start telling MB MFRS their plans to have robust designs ready for them at decent pricing by that time.

 

No, the original x399 layout has a ton of RSVD spots to use for the higher core count chips. If they were so wired when GRND and/or power were on some of the reserved pins the higher core counts could have been reserved to TRX40 and not operate/boot on x399. I only can see a basic layout so no way for me to know the total involvement of a proper remap as I am sure it is involved but it seems could have been done. Again ship has sailed!

I myself can't see the 16 core TR but can understand some wanting it. TBH if they all are willing to accept a new board and 16 core, that MAY be something AMD can do, again x399 ship has sailed, way too much involvement to bring it back.

Edit; I will be honest, and I know it means little to nothing but, if that is a cure to say at least 50% or more of the complaints and AMD showed that initiative personally I would be happy to see them catering again to enthusiasts. If only a few would be helped it is not worth the sales or effort.

 

Thanks for the idea to check out OCN and AMD, and I enjoyed reading both threads.
I thought your comments were right on and I enjoyed reading your posts there.

I thought this post summed up nicely:

"I think TR3 will have limited sales for a number of reasons...

1. High cost of entry into platform ($1400 for chip + mobo cost)
2. No upgrade path for X399 owners
3. Availability of 12 and 16 core parts that are a relative bargain on AM4

Maybe by design... those highly binned 7nm chiplets are in high demand for 3900X /3950X and Epyc, with TSMC supply limited.

They may have a lot of TR1/2 stock they need to clear out, based on the serious price cuts I'm seeing. I could see them later releasing a 16 core (3955X?) to fill the gap between $750 and $1400."
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...l-missed-opportunity-amd-20.html#post28200266

The follow up question is the one I want AMD to flesh out with details:

"Still trying to understand what AMD means for long term support on sTRX4"
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...l-missed-opportunity-amd-20.html#post28200274

sTRX4 being HEDT I'm not so sure AMD can predict the market exactly enough to put out a fixed date that wouldn't need to change - one way or the other, either keep sTRX4 longer due to no need for change, or shorter to accommodate new technology from competition moving to DDR 5 / PCIE 5.0 = sTRX 5?

As for sTRX8? TRX80 will the higher core count CPU's flourish on that platform but be compatible on sTRX4 TRX40 as well, or be incompatible? The TRX40 motherboards have crazy power capabilities, way beyond what the 32c/64t 3970x can use, so there must be higher core count CPU's on the way - as Robert Hallock told us, "we did the xTRX4 upgrade for the future scalability" - higher core count CPUs I assume.

I enjoyed this post, here's a real trooper that's dealing with things practically - he needs the PCI lanes, doesn't care about the cores, but doesn't want to spend $1400 for the entry level ThreadRipper 3 CPU, and he's gonna push ahead with a positive attitude and smileys.

"I'm buying a current gen, since I fit into a weird segment where I don't need the core count but want the PCIE lanes. I'll be happy at 16 cores with a 2950X, since those are on sale. ... So instead I'll settle for 16 cores and be happy. With my luck, AMD will *****-can the entire platform 2 weeks after my build is done, just like they did with the Radeon VII.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...l-missed-opportunity-amd-20.html#post28200302

Now near the end of the thread the current posts are much more accepting - people have dealt with the surprise, worked out plans to move forward, and this one makes the most sense to me if there just isn't enough reason to buy right now:

"Think I'll hold out for 3990X and TRX80 "
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...l-missed-opportunity-amd-20.html#post28200330

It's a long way down that road to get there, but unless you need a computer for a project right now, why not wait till you do have a need and buy the best available within the time scope of your future project?

There is a gap between 16c AM4 and 24c TRX40, but either you need the PCIE lanes or you don't, it's not that big of a jump of $650 to get the 3960x CPU over the 3950x, and again if you really have work that needs more PCI lanes then you should easily be able to pay the freight on a TRX40 board over a nice AM4 board of the same otherwise spec.

Then you are ready for 3990x(?) or sell the TRX40 and get TRX80.

It's gonna cost real money to stay in AMD HEDT over the normal enthusiast budget, but that is to be expected - at least that is what I would expect.

So this post summed it up best:

"If this thread doesn't scream first world problems I really don't know what would.
"This thing I want to buy for my hobby isn't priced the way I'd like"."
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...l-missed-opportunity-amd-19.html#post28198754

Don't worry, be happy, that's it really. Be happy with what you have and can get because that's all there is, face the reality of the now.

If you have time read the whole OCN thread, there is even a guy on there that claims to "...while typing on my AMD Threadripper 3960X", it's all entertaining stuff.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...il-missed-opportunity-amd-2.html#post28188822

" op just buy an intel chip, ask the one of admin to close or delete this thread. This is just pure nonsense!"
https://www.overclock.net/forum/10-...il-missed-opportunity-amd-3.html#post28189132

 

Great idea for the video that won, and what a great Ryzen 7 3800x ROG build.

We Built His Dream Family Gaming Rig - ROG Rig Reboot 2019
Linus Tech Tips
Published on Nov 17, 2019
Thanks to the ASUS Republic of Gamers for sponsoring this video!
ROG Rig Reboot 2019 is back, and our first winner is here! Family is life, but gaming is forever, wouldn't you agree?


#ROGRigReboot19 r/DiWHY
ThePuddler
Published on Sep 28, 2019
Helping my brother to try and win a PC with #ROGRigReboot19 contest, so hopefully we can play Borderland 3 when it comes out on Steam.
Used my Pixel 3a to shoot the video.

 

That would create its own problems -- your 3960X isn't beefy enough, so you want to go to a 3980X? Oops, now you need a new motherboard. I think it's a much more sound expectation that all of the Ryzen 2 TR chips will work on all compatible motherboards.

I think the case for a 16 core TR is a lot more compelling, personally. The idea that someone would need lots of I/O with a relatively modest (!) compute need certainly is realistic. Given how much better Zen2 IPC is than Zen/Zen+, that's only going to be that much more acute. That almost certainly is something AMD could do, probably quite quickly, if the demand is there. And that is a big gap between $750 and $1400. Pricing it around $900 or $1000 would cover that gap nicely, and go after the 10980XE. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if AMD is working on it or even has it in the wings.

Two (three, really -- EPYC) different processors in different lines with the same core count, targeted at different purposes, isn't confusing; my problem is with different processors in the same line being incompatible.

 

So you are coming around on my assessment/write-up above on the product gap in their lineup? Good to hear.

 

I don't disagree on the gap in the lineup when I take a closer look at the pricing. My real issue is with the compatibility thing.

 

My assessment had nothing to do with compatibility and included the assumption it would be on TRX40. I think you may find that long post as something you agree with, generally.

 

There have been so many posts I've lost track; I assume you're referring to the one where you broke recommendations down by price bracket?

If you're looking at the current landscape and need to make a decision now I think it basically makes sense. Things obviously move so fast that what makes sense today might not make sense a week or so from now. If you really need gen4 PCIe, of course, things are a bit different, but there are always corner cases and there aren't a lot of things that "really need gen4 PCIe right now". But people who need that likely know why, and might well be looking at EPYC/Xeon Scalable anyway.

I think there has been confusion about the 16-core SKUs. As I said, I think a 16-core Threadripper (let's call it 3955X just to tag it) would make sense. The AM4 has taken a big jump in CPU performance and cores without increasing PCIe lanes, and that does leave people looking for large I/O capacity in a bind. I'm a Linux user myself, so 2970WX/2990WX would be possibilities if I were looking in that space, but not everything I do is embarrassingly parallel and I'm aware not everyone runs Linux.

The Anandtech review actually leaves me concerned about the high end of the Ryzen 3 generation; if the 3950X is running out of memory bandwidth the (hypothetical) 4950X would only be worse in that regard. That might be one of those very specialized chips you use only if you know your workload is heavily threaded without being memory or I/O limited (the 3950X is arguably that already). Or maybe you'll really need an X670 (again, hypothetical name just for tagging) to get the most out of it, so you'll be able to use the old motherboard but it won't be a great idea.

 

I ventured the 3955X name also awhile back (couple weeks). Gotta say, I agree generally with what you said.

I also spent time discussing a bit on memory bandwidth needing to be discussed per core or per thread. I also mentioned people needed to find whether it effected their specific workloads before buying the 3950X.

As to memory bandwidth per core, this is where the TRX80 and workstation 80 monicker comes in. Those are more than likely 8 memory channel designs. And that makes me think that the TRX40 boards this year are for up to a certain core count, while 8-channel memory on HEDT is coming. That is solution 1.

Solution 2 is to put HBM2E/3/lo (lo is the cheap hbm they designed and has around 320GBps whereas HBM2E is closer to 500GBps on two stacks and HBM3 is closer to 1TBps). Once they go to integrating the I/O into an active interposer, that real estate is freed up. Imagine a 2x8GB stacks where the I/O die is on mainstream with the core dies on the other side. No more IF at all. That would solve bandwidth issues as 8-channel server memory is around the HBM-lo or lower. Even with DDR5 doubling bandwidth, you are still not going to get much above the levels of HBM2 dual stacks. And if more than 16GB is needed, you have DDR5 populated to feed the HBM. It really completely resolves the issue.

But it is HBM or increasing the number of channels on each platform moving forward that is needed, even after DDR5. So hopefully they realize that. They also would need to convince ram MFRS to produce a lot more HBM for their product lines to bring costs down for it.

But imagine not doing two DIMMs per channel, but putting quad channel on mainstream with the AM4 replacement. You don't sacrifice space, do not drastically increase manufacturing costs, and easily jump up memory bandwidth.

But that is my thoughts on where I want them to go.

 

B550A OEM-only budget Chipset spotted in Alienware Aurora Specs Manual that dropped today

I don't have time to do a crash-course in B550A (it may amount to a B450 re-brand), but 'what is it?' was a topic floating in the Tech Press last month like AnandTech AMD B550A System Spotted: OEM Only Chipset, PCIe 3.0 spurred by Robert Hallock Reddit re: AsRock B550AM mthrbrd seen at BestBuy

I showed a few pages back that the Aliens require $1250 for 3950x, which is a $750 CPU. Imagine paying an ultra-premium price just to run it on a budget mthrbrd with budget chipset on budget cooling & have it overheat while you're at it

Reviews suggest 3950x may run cooler than 3900x, which puts Aurora in a pickle should someone say: get the 3900x instead! The Aliens forbid the Area-51 R3 TRip 1950x the Bios update it needed to upgrade to 2950x, I suspect they'll forbid 3950x buyers a Bios update to upgrade next year

Either way, when I showed a few pages back that buyers can expect to pay up to $1400 over retail on just CPU-DDR4, & if what I read is true that the Aliens will be the exclusive pre-built OEM for 3950x, if AMD wanted to do right by the enthusiast community then they chose poorly to use Dellware as the platform to do so: budget mthrbrd/chipset/cooling while asking the highest possible price for the CPU & potentially no Bios update next year to upgrade with (come on: best mainstream CPU yet, running on junk mthrbrd that overheats & gets loud --> notebookcheck today: t he premium desktop has been destroying benchmarks apparently at the cost of heat and noise emissions)(why AMD, why let the rip-off artists showcase & make bank off of your best CPU)

Predatory Pricing? Weak Hardware?​

Predatorware
__________
​

Below was an interesting exchange in the forum comments section on then-unreleased B550A

 

If I had to guess, they're taking the chiplets that have 8 working cores, but aren't fast enough for retail 3950X or 3800X (or even 3700X) and using them for this purpose. Basically, the bottom bin that they really couldn't sell at retail. This kind of thing is for bragging rights (I 4m m0ar 1337 th4n u!!1!) between people who would never know the difference.

 

The compatibility thing is not going to happen, ship has long sailed.

The pinouts could have been mapped to allow for x399 to run 3960x and 3970x. At the same point the new board, TRX4, would have run from 3960x forward. Anyone building a zen2 from scratch then would not want to buy an EOL x399. I hope this explains it better.

 

Why oh why didn't they use a "visible" ThreadRipper 3 CPU showing in a Terminator Model T-3000 cranium in the movie??

Terminator: Dark Fate meets 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™
AMD
Published on Nov 15, 2019
Visual Effects Powerhouse Blur Studio leverages 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ processors to stay on the bleeding edge of what’s possible for their work in VFX. See behind the scenes of Terminator: Dark Fate, and learn how the processing power of 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ was instrumental in the VFX that Blur Studio delivered for the film. Discover more: http://www.amd.com/threadripper