AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

I am also disappointed that there won't be a 16 core thread ripper. I'd love to go back to quad channel memory and having all of the additional IO at my disposal. Plus I'm already bored of the 3900x, lol... Just not enough to spend $$$$ I suppose. May end up back on x299.

 

As of late though I like being bored. I get to sit back and relax and the system just works for what I need.

 

I get it for sure. I go back and forth, right now I'm in mess around mode. I just ordered a couple of rads and I'm going to WC the desktop. X299 was really fun for overclocking for sure. Outside of messing with ram there's not much I can do with this ryzen cpu.

 

That was the point of my analysis above. The price gap and cost of entry for HEDT really opens it up for 14 core and 18-core Intel HEDT CPUs...

 

I should have said "the compatibility meta-issue". I have no problem with what AMD did.

Allowing X399 to run 3960X and 3970X, but not (hypothetical) 3980X or 3990X, would create a lot of confusion IMO. A chipset that supports some but not all chips in a product line would be very nonintuitive.

Also, X399 isn't EOL. It may not be moved further forward, but that isn't the same as EOL. They're still selling X399 and compatible CPUs.

 

I am concerned with some of the TRX4 boards. In that the VRM's no not appear much beefier than the original x399 boards. This is mainly from what I can se the cheaper ones. I am sure they are ok for the 3960x and 3970x but for overclocking the 3990x, I am not sure.

Not that it is actual EOL, in none available. EOL as in no further native upgradable CPU's 2990wx is the last of them.

 

Yeah, the hardware hobbyist part is all but dead. These now are more and more just like consumer devices. The tinkering is all but gone. Now to increase performance we are relegated to keeping the installs clean and bloatware free.

 

<tongue-in-cheek> So you're saying you want AMD to do some product advertisement that they are one of the CPUs behind the extermination of all mankind? </tongue-in-cheek>

In all seriousness, cool video.

 

Mostly, but not completely, true. Enthusiasts still do cooling mods, lapping, water cooling open loops, chillers. Etc. But silicon lottery is more important than ever and the variance between tweaking and not is a lot smaller.

 

With their options for resources AMD had to choose where to put the 16c CPU and with Intel possibly releasing a 10c that might tickle the bottom of the 3900x 12c performance, for AM4 a Zen 2 16c topped anything Intel could offer.

With the PCIE 4.0 x570 AMD has backward / forward compatibility on AM4 for the consumer market while offering PCIE lane performance of an entry level HEDT configuration.

Splitting PCIE for additional feature options has been around for a long time, and even in the consumer market people often use riser cards for changing the mounting of GPU's and other "option" cards.

There's already been 2 16c CPU's in the ThreadRipper line and they are still available, and AMD is using the ThreadRipper 1/2 products for those that need PCIE lanes and can live without PCIE4.0 and Zen 2.

Funny you should say that, I'm wondering how AMD will split compatibility vs funtionality for TRX40 and TRX80 - will the 3960x / 3970x work across both memory configurations with expanding functionality, or are they limited to TRX40 functionality - or worse not supported on TRX80.

And, will the higher core count CPU's offered with TRX80 work on TRX40.

I'm gonna guess it's what you said, they won't be cross compatible. But, that is pure speculation on my part for planning my own needs.

If a need fits TRX40 + 3960x / 3970x then a TRX80 upgrade path for that application wouldn't be *needed*, except maybe as a whole new build to add-on throughput.

The investment for a TRX80 + higher core count CPU build required for an application that *needs* that throughput would be in a whole 'nuther funding class beyond AMD TRX40 HEDT entry level.

If AMD has already segmented x570 => TRX40 I'd be surprised if AMD didn't do that for TRX40 => TRX80, as all are in much different budget class builds unto themselves.

 

It is hard to speculate about compatibility of products that do not exist yet. I guess rumors are OK so long as certain people are creating or speculating about them.

 

Well, there's already a precedent in the Ryzen space for multiple chipsets all supporting the same processors, with different levels of functionality. Perhaps the TRX80 will support more RAM or some such.

 

AMD has said that they found that for AM4 the wide range of core options across a long term AM4 socket with upgrade paths over years has worked for them.

While on HEDT they found the same wide range of Core count options wasn't as well supported by buyers. They wanted the best available in HEDT, buying the top 2 core counts and ignoring the rest.

Most likely the sales numbers of the 8c / 12c weren't anywhere near as high as the 16c / 32c, but enough of each of the 16c / 32c sold to keep one entry level and one top core count option moving forward.

I know when I go looking for a solution to a project computing need I am going to fit it to the need and not over buy or under buy what is needed, it's a narrow range - I have this much to spend on budget and no more - and the solution at least needs to evaluate against the applications need to deliver performance to solve today's need and as far out into the projects estimated lifespan for adequate performance.

There are times where if you put in a budget request the buyers will suggest the next level down - or up - in the build options to meet what they see as the need vs costs. Sometimes they can make a better buy on an item due to vendor relationships from other divisions you can't know about, and so you can bump up the model number a few levels if we need it.

So AMD covers a narrow range in TRX40 and likely TRX80, while offering consumers a wide range of choices to grow with.

AMD is sorting out and optimizing their product lines to meet customer needs against competitors offerings. That's what it looks like to me.

 

So what to do when the 3980x and 3990x and they become the top two core counts appear?

 

Yeah, he keeps repeating this and ignoring my analysis on the 1900X being the worst of the FOUR EIGHT CORE SKUs, while also ignoring that the 1950X was priced the same as the 2920X during the second generation, which I showed much of this year, the 1950X and 2950X were the top sellers for Zen and Zen+ at MindFactory.de, the largest retailer in Germany. That shows the 2970WX and 2990WX, the top core counts, were NOT moving as much as the 16-core, while the bottom 12-core was gutted by gen-1 16-core sales. I showed this empirical data, yet he keeps this talking point.

I even asked to be shown hard data to contradict that statement. It was never provided.

 

Back before the release Enthusiasts went gaga over x399 and the I/O capabilities. The 16 core made every machine like a two in one, 8 cores for intense I/O activity and then 8 cores for general use. AMD has seemed to ignore this with Zen2 and TR. Now if 3960x were compliant people would have upgraded for the IPC and compute.

Enthusiast though would seem to at least settle for a 16 core TR Zen2 and sTRX4 for the added IPC and I/O. Will we see it, doubtful but we can make a case and hope.

 

And so it starts, price gauging, 3950x 872 not in stock.
http://www.macmall.com/p/AMD-Boxed-...ieba?cjevent=28947a9e0b9e11ea83bb066b0a240610

 

As it looks, I will check out the 3960x but am more looking to the possible end of AM4 and waiting on the 4950x. The 3950x just does not have the umph to get me out of the 1950x, maybe Ryzen 3 will. By then hopefully 7nm is a bit more relaxed in supplies and the x570 being the end of the line will hopefully have better pricing. You never know too by then Intel may be better suited for the fight as well.

 

AMD claims that Zen 3 will offer beyond 15% IPC gains over Zen 2

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-c...-beyond-15-IPC-gains-over-Zen-2.444010.0.html

Interesting if accurate.
I remember that (at least initially) 8% in IPC improvement was expected from Zen 3, however, now with AMD stating that its an allegedly 'whole new uArch', 8% seems like a very small improvement with that.
Due to this being a whole new uArch, 10%-15% IPC improvement is not out of the question.
Since Wccftech is hardly a reliable source to quote, we should of course temper our expectations and wait for the release.

Nevertheless, Zen 2 experienced 15% IPC increase over Zen+ because AMD was apparently saving some things on the drawing board that they had no time to implement back with Zen 1 and+, and Zen 2 wasn't considered a 'major' release.

AMD did manage a large IPC increase over Bulldozer... I wonder if it may be possible for them to reproduce that improvement with Zen 3.
It would be nice, but even a 10% IPC improvement would be great as is. Couple it with an increase in clock speeds and AMD is pretty much set.

Also, while AMD did say they will support AM4 until/through 2020, and given that we know that Zen 3 is sticking with DDR4, that should ensure both would be compatible with each other.

Plus, it was mentioned that AM4 may continue 'past its prime' according to the following article:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Socke...n-to-buy-an-Intel-processor-now.423731.0.html

"And to most people's delight, the AM4 socket could outlast its expected timeframe of being the default socket till at least 2020."

But this seems to have been taken slightly out of context because as far as I know, AMD always maintained that they will support AM4 until 2020.
2020 is not 'well past its prime'.
2021 and even 2022 would be considered 'well past its prime'.

There's probably a chance that AM4 as a chipset will continue to be used even when DDR5 hits the market (unless there are intricate physical limitations to the chipset that would require its replacement)... so the only major difference in those motherboards that I can think of would be support for new RAM type (DDR5). And we know that a chipset CAN include support for two different RAM types.
Question is, would mobo manufacturers continue to supply BIOS updates so long into the future (fat chance of that happening on Ryzen laptops if current experiences are any indication).

 

You have to temper this with salt shaker required. I will believe it when I see actual silicon. No matter though, as it stands I will be waiting until at least Zen 3 before making a new system.

 

So despite it not in shelves yet (or with a price announced), there's a full-blown review of the RX 5500.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5500/
Also, is it possible for the thread title to include Navi GPUs, considering Polaris is about to be old news (and soon Vega as well)?

 

I DID say we need to temper our expectations and wait for the final release.
However, I also maintain that 10-15% IPC increase is not outside the realm of possibility, especially if Zen 3 is supposed to be a completely new uArch (which Zen 2 was not).
Zen 1 had a massive IPC increase over Bulldozer.
I'm not saying we should expect anything like that... but if Zen 3 is indeed made from the ground up like its maintained, then 10 or maybe 15% IPC gain is the very least we could realistically expect... anything more would be a bonus.

 

Since this thread is mostly dedicated to CPU discussion, RDNA GPU has a dedicated thread: AMD RDNA GPUs thread. You are more than welcome to post there! Now that we see AMD ramping up their efforts in the GPU game I believe a dedicated place of discussion is welcome

 

I think Adding Navi as a generalization is fine, but agree as it is a new GPU series it should get some dedicated love too..

 

I didn't realize there was a dedicated thread for it. I'll go add my post there.

 

The prices would be awesome, but I doubt it whole heartedly

 

actually they claimed nothing. simply a new arch and so far we know of changes include combination of L3.

making a bigger L3 among cores may benefit things like gaming and reduce some core to core latency, still unsure at this point. 15% seems far fetched tbh with just this being changed. i'd rather see overall latency reduction in core to core, ccx to ccx and memory latency in general.

 

Linus ripped Intel a new one (and rightfully so):

Team RED is looking better and better each day.

 

damn those blurred out TR3 results are genius! loving it hahaha and omg... +50% 24 core TR3 vs. 32 core 2990WX in CB20

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

So you didn't pay attention to what was said?

Let me rehash:

1) they left a lot of little things out of Zen to this point which were planned. Those wool give an uplift.

2) this isn't just larger L3, this is no separate CCX on the die, if the rumored are to be believed. Instead of bifurcating the L3 into 2x16MB, it will be a single L3 of 32MB+. If that also removes CCX bifurcation, which would make sense with allowing any of the 8 cores full access to the L3 cache, then it would allow faster communication between all 8 cores, instead of fast communication between 4 cores then having to go out to the I/O die to talk to the other 4 cores. That alone speeds up the core to core communications and reduces latency further, even with a bit more latency due to doubling the L3. (Cache has a table to say what's in it, and the larger the table, the longer the search time, even though this is shorter than going to ram; but if the larger cache size offsets the going out to memory hit, that will make it faster/lower latency, as Zen 2 showed).

3) they are claiming an entirely new architecture, which means they could be going wider again. No one knows how much change is there.


With that said, I'm not saying the 15% is right or wrong, or the 8% claim is right or wrong. The 7nm+ from TSMC may be more mature and refined compared to the 7nm process, which could also help. That is left to be seen.

But, if they do get 10-15% IPC this generation and the same on Zen 4, then it'll be approaching 50% IPC over my 1950X, which is a worthy upgrade point.

Only time will tell, though.

 

That I/O die! And that is why a couple of is have said that the 2970WX and 2990WX being pushed as an upgrade path is an insult.

 

More from AMD...via Linus...

AMD clearly isn’t tired of winning yet… - Threadripper 3970X/3960X Review
Linus Tech Tips
Nov 25, 2019
After the Ryzen 9 3950X wowed us, AMD’s dropping yet another beastly CPU: The 32-core Threadripper 3970X and 24-core 3960X. Let’s see just how well they rip threads…


Will HardwareCanucks recover from their EOL 2950x and build a ThreadRipper 3 replacement?

ITS EPIC! AMD Threadripper 3970X & 3960X Review With Full Benchmarks
Nov 25, 2019
HardwareCanucks
The AMD Threadripper 3970X and 3960X are here and we have the full review with over 50 benchmark results. That includes productivity performance and gaming benchmarks in AutoDesk Maya, Resolve Studio, Adobe Premier, Blender, Handbrake, Adobe Media Encoder, compilers and more!


Lots of new stuff with the TRX40 + new CPU's. I wonder what weirdness we will see this time?

What will AMD's Robert Hallock explain to us this time?

How It’s Built: 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™
Nov 25, 2019
AMD
Learn about the all-new SoC layout for the 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ processors, and discover how it can enable higher and more consistent performance for creators! Discover more: http://www.amd.com/threadripper

 

The big take away is that single core performance was right on the heels (almost a wash) with the 9900ks. Multicore performance was insane. While Intel still wins (but does not dominate anymore) in gaming, the performance gap has narrowed.

I'm just very impressed across the board. The 3950x is the sweet spot and the 3960x and 3970x are just beautiful behemoths.

I won't be upgrading till late next year (or early 2021) on both desktop and laptop, but unless Intel pulls out something magical I can see myself going back to AMD for the first time since I ran their FX-60 as my daily driver for 2-3 years.

 

Th 3950x and 3960x/3970x are great as new systems. These are not so great as upgrades to existing AMD systems. IPC is upgraded but not to the point it may be worth it, other than lower core count systems.

Not many CPU's in stock available. even less new TR boards and info. I actually have the pocket money for one but it is just hard to justify.

 

OC3D did the primary day one TRX40 reviews, with hardware unboxed promising soon.

Currently on the Epos Vox review. I do wonder with zen 3 coming potentially in the first half of next year which mainstream products will be available and if the TR launches will move back to August, with Epyc around Computex possibly. That would also give buffer room to work around 5nm process issues that might crop up for Zen 4.

Either way, it will be fun to watch what may come (along with seeing if Intel could actually get 7nm ready for 2021).

 

NewEgg has the TRX40 Taichi for 499.99 USD. Also ma few other boards, try and find a CPU though.

 

@D2 Ultima - here is a streaming look at the new TR zen 2 chips. Pretty good performance (although Epos Vox still says nvenc/nvdec for 4k):

 

maybe a little change in the way you start your comment will go a long way to get people to read your post, just a little advice.

since I have been around long enough to somewhat know your character so i pay it no mind.

back ontop topic, AMD were going to put a lot of these implementation in original zen but since they didn't theres no point of arguing about it. the guy mentioned it will be a new arch and from what changes we seen so far with L3 cache, 15% just isn't possible.

like i always say though i would love to be proven wrong, we would all get more performance and value if they can get a 15% bump, that high of a bump isnt doable unless a bunch of optimization is done, or a killer arch which i highly doubt it. zen3 will be an optimization and if they can get 5%+ out of zen2 i'll be impressed already.

 

You are making assumptions without much to support it.

This isn't a simple cache change only. Every time it wants to go off CCX, it has to round trip to the I/O die. That ends with going to a single CCD, which is suggested by making the full amount of L3 available to any of the 8 cores. That means 1) super low latency between all 8 cores around 12-20ns, instead of the much higher round trip or for Zen/+ the 40ns time to use IF to go from one CCX to the other, and 2) since the L3 is used as a victim cache filled with evicted L1 and L2 elements, you now have whatever was evicted from 7 other cores, rather than 3 other cores, to be quickly available and accessible to any of those cores. Those are not trivial changes that can effect IPC more than the cache tweaks from Zen to Zen+ or the IF latency tweaks of Zen+, which only yielded around 3-4% IPC change.

Then, there is the host of things left out that we both brought up. Those likely reach have their own benefits to the IPC. Follow all of the above changes with a significant architecture overhaul, and 8% is pretty easily achievable. Whether or not AMD achieved that is a different matter left to be seen.

But from a theory standpoint, the leaked rumor of 8% is achievable. More is possible, but I hesitate suggesting they could get more until more information is known.

 

whens the time you need to something to support an assumption? though i dont completely disagree with what you said, from a glance these are optimization which would benefit cpu to only an extent. just optimization for 1 portion of the CPU wouldn't be enough. zen2 literally has improvement on all front so we get the 15% bonus that we see now and if they arent doing that for zen3, that just isn't going to happen for 15%.

 

I just have one question as it is getting late in the day, didn't AMD say on 11/25/2019 that the 3950x, 3960x and 3970x would be available in quantities? Only one severe price gouger on Ebay for the 3950x is all I have found so far.

 

Now I agree with that statement, but I also feel characterizing the change as just a cache change is not correct.

As I said, though, I'm dubious of then getting 15% without more information. I do think the prefetch they moved up from Zen 3 to Zen 2 did wonders helping that IPC.

But, if it is true that they will have Zen 3 in the first half, we'll find out soon enough.

 

With results like this - as long as performance holds up over the next few months without any surprise "gotcha's" - this should be a fun project build - until TRX80 + 3990x / 3980x is announced, and then it will be interesting to see how those stratify AMD's HEDT offerings.:

AMD Threadripper 3970X & 3960X Review, Total Intel HEDT Annihilation
Nov 25, 2019
Hardware Unboxed
AMD Threadripper 3970X & 3960X Review, Intel HEDT Has Left the Chat

 

Yeah, and those with with yesterdays non-compatible motherboards can just drool
Yet another reason it's not so tempting throw out money on yesterday's tech today.

Sold out!

 

damn look at the 1080p gaming performance blow away intel. massive amount of cache and quad channel really making it up for AMD. quad channel means higher latency than dual channel but has the bandwidth to feed that huge L3 cache.

things looking great for AMD, only if those TR3 didn't cost $1400 for entry 24cores and another $600 for the motherboard.

 

just enough for a space heater. space heaters can now retire, just need 1 rig in each room at 4.6+ ghz.

 

Newegg never had any 3950x, it was put up as sold out. Amazon says was in stock on them. Check out the links as also has last date in stock.

https://www.gearinstock.com/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-processor-pre-order-in-stock-availability-tracker/
https://www.gearinstock.com/amd-ryz...ssor-pre-order-in-stock-availability-tracker/
https://www.gearinstock.com/amd-ryz...ssor-pre-order-in-stock-availability-tracker/

 

Here home... Nothing

 

It looks as if the 7nm shortage has got them into a really bad supply issue. I am hoping this is not true because if it is this bad now, it may get a lot worse before it gets better. I mean if this is supposed to be "available in quantities"?

Price gouging on Ebay, 3950x $1,500.00, come on.

 

well the 3950x is a good chip. use as much power as the 3900x with real binned chiplets pretty amazing. i will be interested to see what they do with 3990x all 8 cores chiplet and see if it uses similar amount of power as the 32 or 48 cores.