AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Now this kind of stinks, I live in NJ.

 

Well B&H changed expected dates for 3960x to 1/16/2020 and 3970x to 1/6/2020, there goes the holidays.




Edit; sorry made myself chuckle playing devils advocate on the news headlines "The year AMD stole Christmas", you know promising's of 11/25 and now all the disappointed little PC Enthusiasts on 12/25.

 

Here's some more info on TRX40 motherboards:

ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme TRX40 Motherboard Review: Powerful Enough For Threadripper 3?
Dec 5, 2019
Level1Techs
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081663NLF

 

Now two weeks in, so the 3950x little piggy has made it too market but expect severe price gouging. The bigger brothers of the 3960x and 3970x haven't seemed to make it to market yet.

 

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16 Core CPU Binning Statistics Detailed – More Than 50% Chips Can Hit 4.1 GHz Across All Cores, 1 out of 5 Can Hit 4.15 GHz & Beyond wccftech.com | Dec 11, 2019

I mean I have never seen a mainstream chips have a $1500 price tag from SL before.

Maybe the lack of chips is one of the reasons for this HEDT price point? And not only the better binning.

 

der8auer catches up...

From TRASHRIPPER to THREADRIPPER
Dec 11, 2019
der8auer
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/...
The world of AORUS GAMING: www.aorus.com


Hardware Canucks build a real *small* computer...why the obsessive attention to *small*?

Same goes for that Hackintosh Ryzen - why go through all that trouble and expense for water cooling when you can build for $1000+ less and get the same performance or spend the savings on better performance and features??

Our Most POWERFUL ITX Build Yet! A Ryzen 9 3950X Beast!
Dec 10, 2019
HardwareCanucks
The Ryzen 9 3950X is one of the best processors available and we decided to add it into a compact ITX gaming / workstation PC build. Not only is this one of the smallest, compact PCs we've built but it is also one of the most powerful!


Hardware Unboxed gives us their insights on TRX40 motherboards...

AMD TRX40 Motherboard VRM Temp Test, Who Makes The Coolest Board?
Dec 11, 2019
Hardware Unboxed

Spoiler: Board links

Asus Prime TRX40-Pro: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08166G8DS
Asus ROG Strix TRX40-E: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08165D9R7/
Asus ROG Zenith II Extreme: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081663NLF
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Master: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081JDLX48/
Gigabyte TRX40 Aorus Xtreme: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NDNMD8B
Asrock TRX40 Creator: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081JX35ZK
Asrock TRX40 Taichi: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081JX2LKK
MSI Creator TRX40:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081FXBWTD/

 

Newegg and B&H have the 3950x but over MSRP.

 

Here's the new AMD Ryzen / Navi - Xbox Series X - it looks more like a " StretchBox"...

As Austin said, "...Microsoft built a PC"; "...it's just a PC..."

Xbox Series X: Are You SERIOUS?
Dec 12, 2019
Microsoft just surprised announced the next gen Xbox Series X.


And, I thought I posted this video already....

When Ryzen met OSX..you get a Hackintosh and YOU get a Hackintosh..and..


Xmas Joy with the new 5500xt (and 5600xt?)...future APU's??

RX 5500 XT Review - Is 1080p still relevant?
Dec 12, 2019
Coreteks


Given that 7nm silicon is constrained - too many 7nm products need production time - if you want the latest 7nm GPU from AMD, there's gonna be a "small" surcharge required over the normal price / performance value.

AMD's not giving these 5500xt's away any time soon, so at these prices I'd investigate RX590, RX580, Vega 56's and Vega 64's while they are still plentiful and cheap - new or used.

Jayz Two Cents throws in on the 5500xt pricing...among other observations...

Is the RADEON 5500XT worth the price?
Dec 12, 2019
JayzTwoCents


Wendell covers a lot the other reviewers haven't, good perspectives...

Hey! Listen! 7nm (Little) Navi Is Here! w/The Sapphire PULSE 5500 XT
Dec 12, 2019
Level1Techs

 

Bearded hardware OCing 3970X on water:

 

2950x CB20 6938 vs 3950x CB20 9047 performance report, followed by a 3970x CB20 18237:

After stress testing I decided to compare the 3950X to my outgoing 2950X. I didn't expect this level of improvement. Both are on auto. I also tested in some real world testing with HandBrake and added in my old OCed 6800K. Average encode speed: 14.4 FPS (6800K) | 31.5 FPS (2950X) | 41.7 FPS (3950X)
Submitted 1 day ago by BlastMode7
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/eann22/after_stress_testing_i_decided_to_compare_the/


32c/64t 3970X overclocked to 4.2ghz all cores on water. R20 = 18237
Submitted 2 hours ago by DaPoets
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ebbqjn/32c64t_3970x_overclocked_to_42ghz_all_cores_on/

This Threadripper is amazing

https://preview.redd.it/d3mbe1oy1y4...bp&s=107a8c99f3b56b29b00488f810f79540e5a1a992

https://preview.redd.it/412mueyx1y4...bp&s=2d0df657d94b4f88f5d398047ea64b89b4b09b0c

 

Great if they were obtainable on the market, what is this three weeks now and nothing?

 

$1,772 for 3960X and $2,525 for 3970X here home (cheapest store). And more than enough chips. But none of the cheaper 3950X ($997). Probably a main reason we have enough TR chips... The awful prices who beat everything Intel has ever demanded. The most expensive 3970x is adverticed at +$3400

 

If no one buys - if the stock sits on the shelves and they begin to gather dust the prices will eventually drop to MSRP, but until then short stock and higher than MSRP prices will be the norm until production volume matches demand.

 

At 799 if they include the game bundle it may be a deal. Ebay store prices to me do not count, nor outside vendors. I want MSRP and at an authorized dealer.

 

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X / 3960X Delidded and Tested With Direct-Die Cooling wccftech.com| Today
AMD's 3rd Gen Ryzen Threadripper has been delidded by German overclocker, Roman Hartung or more famously known as Der8auer. The Ryzen Threadripper platform is the pinnacle of high-end desktop PCs, offering insane core counts, massive amounts of performance and lots of features to enthusiasts and gamers. It's currently the platform of choice for enthusiasts and the Der8auer has showcased overclockers what to expect from delidding a Ryzen Threadripper 3000 series chip.

 

Watched it earlier this morning. Pretty cool, but he could only get a 1C reduction. But he is going to check height tolerances and possibly mill the cold plate for better contact. I also wouldn't be surprised if he created a bare die mounting mechanism to ensure even force across the PCB and that would still allow full contact with the die.

 

No way would I even attempt this.

 

And not really worth it considering he got only 1 deg C reduction.
We already knew that AMD was using high quality solder for their lids... and that temperature reduction from de-liding was minimal to non-existent.

 

For science but not for sale.

 

I bet if you had some pressure film on the chiplets, you'd see that contact pressure is not ideal. With that many different surfaces, even the tinniest z-height offset will pretty have serious consequences. So only thing worth lapping would be the IHS itself.

 

Possibly, but realistically, what kind of reduction in temps could we expect?
Even 5 deg C reduction is not worth all the delid wok which could also destroy the cpu.
10 deg C? Possibly, but given existing zen 2 stock temps, not worth it.

 

On the 9900K you get significant temperature improvements when lapping the die, as it's 2x thickness of an 8700K.
Easily dropping 15-25c when paired with LM and copper ihs.

Contact pressure is key. Liquid metal will better than STIM, if proper contact is present. And judging from Der8auer's video, you'd need to lap the chiplets to achieve this. But the layout makes this a challenge, as capacitors surround the whole top side of the chip.
But it's not worth the risk. Better solution would be having a lapped IHS with a waterblock that has a large microfin area covering all the chiplets.

 

While Newegg's $900 price feels awful, there are three MC's in my area; two stores are sold out which suggests they'd had some prior & may re-stock soon. I could buy one today, ~30minute drive

3960x also in the wild @ MSRP

 

Pretty sure these are selling like hotcakes right now

 

That may be the case with Intel CPU's, but we have had previous de-lidding attempts at AMD cpu's that noted the temperature reductions were minimal and therefore not worth the risk, because AMD was already using a high quality solder... Intel on the other hand doesn't.

 

It's not necessarily that they are using a lower quality solder. There are tolerances involved.

But, you are correct. Same person, Roman, delidded the first gen single die Ryzen and only for 1C difference, although I cannot remember if he did direct die on that or LM between the die and IHS.

Either way, it shows AMD is doing an excellent job regarding soldering.

Also, as a side note, AMD is using Intel's patent for soldering chips.

 

Actually (and if I remember accurately), it could be the case that Intel hadn't been using solder in the first place, but relatively low quality thermal paste - which is why delidding and repasting worked so well.
AMD bypassed this problem by using a solder (except on their first generation of APU's - subsequent APU's have been using solder).

 

Yeah, I remember hearing that. I find it quite amusing

 

It seems like the industry should have been substituting AMD for Intel like this a year or more ago...

Lenovo promoting AMD thin client/tiny desktop options over Intel in light of ongoing shortages
Submitted 1 day ago by dorsey6250
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ecetzf/lenovo_promoting_amd_thin_clienttiny_desktop/

B&H has a great price on the Ryzen 7 2700x $158.99:
In Stock $158.99 - Regular Price $278.99
Instant Savings $120.00 Limited supply at this price
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1404638-REG/amd_yd270xbgafbox_amd_ryzen_7_2700x.html

 

AMD 3970x better hurry
http://www.macmall.com/s?rch=&q=amd 3970x

 

Some interesting news on the Zen 2 mobile front:

Ryzen 7 4700U: AMD's First Ever 8-Core APU
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ryzen-7-4700u-amds-first-ever-8-core-apu

8 cores and 8 threads (no mention if there might be 8c/16th version).
4.2GhZ is probably single core boost, whereas an all core boost would likely be around 3 or 3.2GhZ?

On top of that, its got a Vega iGP with increased core count... all in a supposed 15W package.

If accurate, this could be quite good.

I'd be interested to see if some news pop up on a version with 8c/16th with a TDP of 25W.

It wouldn't be difficult to imagine since AMD did change the naming structure a bit for their Zen 2 desktop CPU's.
3700x is a 65W TDP version of 8c/16th... whereas on Zen+, 2700x was 105W... so its possible that the 25W TDP u part (if it exists, and if this 4700u 8c/8th is real) might be designated as something else.

I'd consider getting that kind of laptop (with 8c/16th which has a vega IGP) and a decent dGPU (5700 perhaps?).... but they will need to improve upon the cooling and noise in that case.

 

3960x (an amazon store, not amazon);

 

I was initially excited about the Ryzen 7 4700U, but upon further examination, it is still not worth a platform upgrade vs. what Intel already offers today in the mobile space. In the immediate future, I don't see Intel losing any ground here.

From the link Deks posts above:

So, at least this iteration of a mobile APU doesn't exceed what Intel has been offering so far.

Given the above, the 'snappiness' of the system won't be above Intel's offerings either. Of course, I'm only interested in comparisons with the top end i7-1065G7 and the i7-10710U platforms vs. this (or better) APU.

While an 8C/16T variant of this APU might surpass the i7-10710U on 'work done', it will still feel less snappy in comparison. The actual performance numbers would indicate if it would be worth taking a chance on this new platform over what I am currently achieving using Intels platform though. Looking forward to an in-depth review of the actual shipped product.

What would tip me towards AMD is increased battery life, even at the expense of 'snappiness', at this time. At 7nm and an appropriately sized battery, I would expect over 20+ Hrs of use away from a wall plug. Needing to charge up a system two or three times a week vs. every day would be an improvement in my workflows.

The 15-1035G4 and i7-1065G7 based platforms (MS only so far as I've seen, yeah; not all of them) offer another level of having an always-on computing experience that is even faster than a phone, with the power of a full desktop O/S too. And good enough battery life too (up to 72-hour standby is just insane).

Can AMD's new APU deliver the above? That is when we'll be talking.

Note; this would obviously not be my main system; it will be my 'digital notebook' that I use multiple times a day to keep me on track and on top of all I need to do each day.

 

AMD’s 4th Gen Ryzen 9 4900H & Ryzen 7 4800H APUs With Up To 8 Core / 16 Threads Coming in Early 2020 – Ryzen 7 4800HS APU Spotted & Listed in ASUS Gaming Notebooks

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-9-4900h-ryzen-7-4800h-8-core-16-thread-ryzen-4000-apu-leak/

These appear to be 45W TDP parts and 8c/16th.
Base clocks seem low (2.3GhZ)... but it's still early days and those could be Engineering Samples.
I'm really put off by the price though.
1600 EUR for that kind of a system seems way too much.
Plus, its Asus (bah)... and I don't want a repeat with their GL702ZC cooling design blunder. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until the reviews, but I'm highly sceptical in how they will execute it.

In regards to what @tilleroftheearth mentioned about 'snappiness'... again, Zen platform is just as 'snappy' as Intel.
There is no real difference. If you think there is, you are (probably) imagining it.

If you want to invest in Intel because you like the brand, go for it... but you won't be gaining anything crucial vs AMD (not when it comes to performance, or 'snappiness')... and in all probability, you'll end up paying more.

 

See:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/meet-the-ryzen-9-4900h-and-ryzen-7-4800h-the-rumored-8c16t-apus

Yeah; lots of fanfare for some time in 2020.

I can't wait for the reviews and with what Intel is sure to answer with.

Btw; 'snappiness' is not imaginary. Build two systems. Same budget, same RAM capacity, same SSD's (and OP'ing), same Win10x64Pro clean install and same programs, suites, and test data installed. Fully update the drivers and programs as needed. Let the systems run 24 Hrs/overnight to let them take care of any internal housekeeping needed.

Now, just use them for a week or longer. Intel (so far) always wins in how easy it is to forget about the hardware you're using and lets you concentrate more directly on the output. Some are more sensitive to this (like me), some less so. Imaginary, it is not.

I've been stating this since a decade ago, now. Back then, I had desktop systems that would be used to crunch through work (and they felt sluggish doing almost anything else) and other systems that felt fast but didn't have the capability to actually push real work through. Even back then; I had at least two sets of platforms that let me enjoy both kinds of 'performance'.

Because even taking a Porsche around a parking lot (i.e. just navigating the O/S) feels better than taking a dump truck to work each day, when all you are doing is 'office/productivity' work (which is all the masses are doing, if that).

 

The snappiness to which you relate is direct from the IPC. Also multiple cores with high IPC keep cores closer to idle. Newer Zen cores will compete well against Intel to say the least. As a point I can say the 1950x feels as snappy as any Intel but it is only because no matter what there are free cores to use.

 

The snappiness isn't even the issue.
Any modern CPU will feel pretty much equally snappy, especially when paired with a good SSD.
As I said before, I never experienced issues in snappiness or responsiveness with 1700 or 2700.
Plus, the 'snappiness' also relies on code optimisations.
What is code currently optimised for mainly? Intel CPU's. But despite that, AMD is still beating Intel.
Just imagine what will/could happen if developers started optimising from the get go for AMD an Intel equally (without discriminating).
Intel's higher clocks wouldn't save them... Zen 2 has higher IPC so AMD can easily match or surpass Intel with lower clocks... and even Zen 1 and Zen+ are dead close to Intel enough to the point where the difference is negligible... sure, single core Intel IPC was greater than Zen+ by about 3-5%... but that's such a small difference that it doesn't matter... and AMD has more cores to throw at Intel anyway to compensate and beat them in multithreading (which they do).

 

MS did just that with their Surface 3 laptop. Go try them out yourself. Nobody I know bought the AMD platform... even AMD fans...

But again, if you're not directly comparing between two otherwise identical setups - it is your imagination that AMD is equal.

 

Yeah, still not April 1. Maybe AMD finally found a way to help on the shortage of Zen 2 chips, with offering the old


Some Old AMD Chips Might Be Getting a 12nm Makeover tomshardware.com | Today

First-gen chips are popping up with AMD's second-gen 12nm "Zen+" Process

 

Even though this is potentially a positive improvement in continuing support for 1xxx Ryzen entry level CPU's by AMD, I didn't post it because it's also based on flimsy evidence and reasoning, oddly coming from tomshardware.

Their reasons behind thinking AMD has improved the 14nm process to 12nm on the current production 1xxx Ryzen's is due to

" The "AF" identifier was originally thought to classify the chips as two different steppings of the 14nm Zeppelin die (B1 and B2, respectively), but common test utilities, like CPU-Z and HWInfo, identify these chips as 12nm parts. There is a chance that this is merely a mistake in the product identifier strings programmed into the chips, but we've reached out to AMD for official comment and will update as necessary."

They should have waited for a response from AMD confirming the move to 12nm or AMD clearing up the confusion - toms could have contacted the developers for CPU-Z and HWInfo and waited for feedback about the anomaly. Perhaps the developers could get a response from AMD too - and then they can fix their apps based on factual confirmations from AMD.

 

And so it begins? supposedly as of 12/30/2019 there will be 3960x's available.

 

I freaking DETEST Asus.
They are overpricing AMD laptops to heck.
Asking 1600 EUR for a laptop that has an 8c/16th APU?
Ridiculous.

Why are people accepting this extortion?
They are charging almost the same as they did for GL702ZC which had a DESKTOP 1700 inside (which is/was probably equal or more powerful performance wise than this low clocked Zen 2 8c/16th) with RX 580.

EDIT: I really have to wonder what kind of dGPU will they put in there to go along with it (if they do - at that price, they better put in a good one)... and whether the cooling and noise will be up to the challenge.

 

In order to justify price a laptop has to either perform as good or better than other laptops in the same price range, and to demand a premium it must do it with other benefits like longer battery life, cooler operation, smaller and lighter form - or really pretty RGB.

It will be interesting to see the range of AMD laptops that come out next year

 

Good thing that's next week.

 

Interesting yes, but question is will they be able to perform as you claim.
These APU's are essentially the same as the H ones for desktops (slower version of full blown 65W processors with more cores that don't have an iGP) and are usually CHEAPER for the consumer.

I find it VERY difficult to imagine that these APU's would justify that kind of a price tag, especially since we were told that 7nm APU's will make gaming laptops not just more powerful, but also more affordable.

1600 EUR is NOT affordable for an APU based laptop.
The price should be closer to 800-1000 EUR (with a mid range dGPU like 5600XT).

Its a disgrace in pricing.
Again, why do people tolerate this?

 

Where is my "claim" of performance? Performance of what? I was clearly speaking generically.

I clearly laid out how to justify a price point for a laptop in relation to other similarly priced laptops. Not an AMD laptop, not an Intel laptop. Not a specific laptop. Any laptop in general.

Re-read my posts out loud to yourself a few times before responding to my posts in the future so you don't try to ascribe to me words I didn't actually say.

 

I meant 'perform as other laptops in the same price range'.
I was only saying that we don't know if these Asus laptops will perform like other laptops in the same price range.

 

Ryzen 4000 rumors: Allegedly can offer an up-to 20 percent extra perf over Ryzen 3000

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...to-20-percent-extra-perf-over-ryzen-3000.html

AMD Zen 3 (Source: Red Gaming Tech)

• the integer performance should be about 10-12% higher
• the FPU performance should be up to 50% higher
• the average IPC gain should come out at + 17%
• the clock rate gain of the current engineering samples (for the server area) is 100-200 MHz
• the number of CPU cores from Ryzen 4000 should be equal to Ryzen 3000

It doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility if Zen 3 is supposed to be a brand new uArch, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-3-ryzen-4000-epyc-milan-cpu-17-percent-ipc-gain-rumor/
AMD Zen 3 CPUs Allegedly Features 17% IPC Gain Over Zen 2 Architecture, Ryzen 4000 ‘Vermeer’ CPUs to Feature Huge Performance Upgrade Over Ryzen 3000

One thing that stood out for me in this article was:
"Both Zen 4 based processor lineups would be based around entirely new platforms with Ryzen 4000 getting support on the AM5 socket while the EPYC Genoa chips will be getting support on the SP5 socket."

Bearing in mind that this whole article is still a rumour, we could see Zen 3 on AM4 (if its released in late 2020 as AMD claims).
Plus, previous sources/articles claimed that Zen 3 won't have DDR5, and that it will 'probably' be supported by AM4 with a BIOS update.
But, given the late release schedule of Zen 3 (late 2020), its beginning to look like a tossup... that, and the fact that TSMC's 5nm process is already well ahead on 7nm in regards to yields... so there's a small chance we could see Zen 3 on 5nm instead?
Sure, 7nm+ would have greater yields and improved clocks over 7nm, but if 5nm is better, wouldn't it make more sense for AMD to use it instead?

 

3950x @ msrp;