AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

I’m sure Nvidia will have a card in the $1000 price range to compete with Big Navi Better Performance at same price point should be a good estimate. Don’t expect Big Navi to be cheap.


Nvidia's GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER distances itself from AMD's Radeon 5700 XT in leaked Mindfactory GPU sales data Notebookcheck.net | Today

GPU sales information from Mindfactory, a popular hardware and software retailer based in Germany, has offered an interesting glimpse at what products are currently succeeding in attracting customers. It seems Navi is falling further behind SUPER, as twice as many Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER units were sold in comparison with the AMD Radeon 5700 XT.

 

Nvidia may have more than one card in the $1000 range if their trend of overpricing continues. With the 3080 @ $999 and their 3080ti @ $1499, more or less.

We don't know enough about big Navi as AMD hasn't had anything in that top class of GPU for quite a while.

I'm hoping for $750, faster than the 2080ti, about as fast or faster than the 3080.

Unless AMD totally surprises us, it'll be another generation past Big Navi before AMD matches the 3080ti.

Strange, they list the XT after 5700 / 5500 without a problem, but can't get "Super" in after the 2070 / 2060 in the listing?

Maybe they had a blow out of the plain old 2070's / 2060'?, and those "journalists" are missing that important detail - no "Super"?

That list is too short to show all the GPU's, there are probably "2070 Super" and "2060 Super" entries elsewhere in that list.

With the driver problems + AIB screwup's it wouldn't be a surprise that the 2070 Super is outselling the 5700xt, what is a surprise is that it's only 2:1, so there are a bunch of people still choosing the AMD Radeon GPU

Glass half full time.

Yup, that's the "surprise" I hope AMD delivers this time, which would make that large jump in cores even more deadly.

It's been a long time since AMD had the #1 GPU spot, it's about time again.

 

As long AMD can't compete we will see awful prices as usual from Nvidia. That's life.

<About as fast or faster than 3080>, AMD won't be cheaper than Nvidia. They will just put the prices where their competitor is. Or Nvidia will increase it above if the performance is higher. Not much we can do about this, bro Scott. Only awful sales will push the prices where they should be. But I doubt it... Over 2 years since Turing popped up... So expect the gamers will jump on the new whatever price point.

 

And that's what Intel thought as well, then AMD Ryzen happened, now it's only a matter of time for Nvidia's turn to come around...

 

What I have seen from AMD ain't good enough against Nvidia. The new 7nm arch for graphics struggle with the 2 years old from Nvidia. I just hope they don't crush them further with theeir next gold. Because that will push prices where we never have seen before.

 

Nah, what you didn't see coming was Ryzen

Whether it's AMD's Big Navi, or the next --- or the next... the Reaper is patiently waiting.

Nvidia can frolic among their RTX'd waves happy and unaware... until the dorsal fin of AMD cuts through the water toward Nvidia!!

Spoiler: Boo!

Spoiler: Where did that Shark come from??

Maneater Interview – Talking Sharks with Tripwire Interactive CEO John Gibson
By Kai Powell, Feb 20
https://wccftech.com/maneater-interview-tripwire-ceo-john-gibson/

 

In Teraflops, the Series X Xbox with AMD RDNA 2 @ 12 Teraflops vs. the 2080 Super is 10.7 tflops, so the new Series X Xbox (Sexbox?, or Sexxbox?) is "faster"?

On paper, the GPU in the Xbox Series X is faster than a GeForce RTX 2080 Super
" Microsoft confirmed the GPU inside the Xbox Series X is based on AMD's RDNA 2 architecture with 12 TFLOPs of performance."
By Paul Lilly 10 hours ago
https://www.pcgamer.com/on-paper-th...es-x-is-faster-than-a-geforce-rtx-2080-super/

"Microsoft says that its next-generation console, the Xbox Series X, will include a GPU based on AMD's second-generation Radeon DNA architecture (RDNA 2) and offer up 12 teraflops of graphics performance.

That means that the Xbox Series X GPU is twice as powerful as the Xbox One X GPU, and more than eight times faster than the Xbox One's. What's more interesting to us, however, is how it compares with PC graphics cards.

GeForce RTX 2080 Super, and just a bit behind a 2080 Ti, currently the best graphics card for gaming."

... More fun numbers in the article at the link above...

What You Can Expect From the Next Generation of Gaming
by Phil Spencer, Head of Xbox • Feb 24, 2020 @ 6:00am
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/02/24/what-you-can-expect-next-generation-gaming/

The Playstation 5 is supposed to be faster than the Xbox this time...

 

Read that yesterday actually.
But we know that TF numbers do not always correspond with total gaming performance... it might if the game was properly optimised to make use of the GPU in totality, but we have far more examples of the opposite being the case (at least in PC gaming).

Also, it doesn't help the fact that a large portion of games are nor properly optimised for PC's (Which is downright stupid considering the hw is practically identical as is).

 

AMD Ryzen 4000 APU Flexes 4.4 GHz Boost in Laptop Listing Ahead of Release


Just add salt.

 

Doesn’t mean much, if it can’t hold it under any sort of real load, or when more than one core is used.

 

Doesn't that usually happen with laptops which have Intel CPU's?

Oh and most of the time its because OEM's either use cheap (bad) thermal compound which was applied wrong, and also poor cooling design implementation.

The hw is actually not the problem... its OEM's poor cooling designs that are the problem.

In Lenovo's case of using Zen 2500u/2700u without a dGPU, they had a cooling system with only 1 heat-pipe, whereas the Intel variant had 2 heat-pipes for an otherwise same setup.
This was a clear case of AMD getting short end of the stick.

We'll have to wait and see how the hw behaves in actual laptops (which will also depend on us seeing what kind of cooling the OEM's give AMD), but given overall efficiency of Zen 2 and its success in desktop, I'm hoping that OEM's won't be short-handing AMD hw when it comes too overall cooling design (allowing the hw to reach and maintain its boost frequencies indefinitely/aka for as long as one needs them).

Acer has a good track record with cooling and AMD hw implementation, but their software support (BIOS and drivers) is quite poor to non-existent (although, most OEM's tend to release and forget when it comes to AMD hw - and for various Intel hw - at least when it comes to mobile).

 

Historically the AMD mobile solutions are way under cooled. I have the Huawei Matebook D and it is a 2500u but these actually seem to be about the best of the variants and this is way under what is needed. We will have to wait for hardware to see.

 

Yes. This is exactly what I mentioned too.
The HW is perfectly fine and efficient but the cooling OEMs use for it is completely inadequate.

 

As I had mentioned the 3990x is just a bit much for most DIY people, market has the CPU at a discount at 3899.99.

 

Yeah, but unlike with Intel and hardware engineered around crappy M$ software, AMD can't hide from it's crappy GPU drivers!!!

 

I had always prefered AMD for the RAMDAC's but drivers are always a so, so.

 

What are you talking about? Nvidia has had the crappiest drivers for years while AMD wasn't even being called out - the percentage of people with bad Nvidia problems is very high too, only 22% compared to the 48% with AMD driver problems right now.

Edit: Note that I am referring to the recent survey done by Hardware Unboxed, and although that was a limited pool of respondents it's the same pool where the 48% number of AMD users having problems was calculated from as well:

https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/8...radeon-graphics-cards-over-driver-issues.html

We have threads dedicated here on NBR to finding the best available Nvidia drivers, all the threads on laptops here have people looking for stable Nvidia drivers, it's been that way for years and years - constantly Nvidia has put out bad drivers and we have to use the ones from several updates back.

Nvidia is just as bad as AMD, but with AMD drivers people are at least used to them not causing problems so when the new 20.x.x drivers have been so unstable users have finally reported enough problems that they have gone back to 19.x.x drivers to get stable.

Just like everyone still does for Nvidia drivers.

Sheesh, you are acting like it's unusual for AMD drivers to be bad because it's usually Nvidia drivers getting complained about.

For once it's AMD, let them get the bugs fixed, then you can all get back to complaining about Nvidia drivers.

With ~50% of AMD Radeon owners not having problems, and the rest moving back to 19.x.x relieving the problems until the new driver architecture gets sorted out, AMD is for a rare time fielding problems similar to Nvidia's long term problems - forcing users to back up a driver version, or two, or a few more to get stable running in games.

Historically AMD drivers aren't as bad as Nvidia drivers. Nvidia drivers have been consistently problematic for decades.

Nvidia was to blame for most of the Windows Vista problems, Windows 7 was a great release because Nvidia drivers weren't causing problems at release. Then for both Windows 8 / 8.1 again we had Nvidia driver problems.

All that time the AMD drivers were great.

Every so often there's a bad turn of a new software release and right now AMD's Radeon 2020 drivers are their bad turn.

AMD will get their drivers fixed, and when that's over Nvidia drivers will still be causing problems, and we can get back to normality - complaining about Nvidia drivers - which one is stable? Which one works for this game or that game that's performing badly on the new Nvidia driver?

Buildzoid has fun with LM on a 3950x, reapplying 4x before he got good thermals, interesting stuff.

Liquid metal on top of an overclocked 3950X kinda makes sense
Feb 26, 2020
Actually Hardcore Overclocking
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...and-liquid-metal.806840/page-26#post-10993179

 

50% of users having issues and being told to revert drivers is a huge number of issues. When I was employed if my record was 50/50 I would have been fired and rightfully so. It seems we expect so little anymore. Since this is not a Nvidia thread I will leave those screw ups alone.

 

We all should have fired Nvidia long before now, multiple times. But, we are stuck with Nvidia. That's been my point for many many years. We live with Nvidia's screwups, and hope against hope the next driver will solve the problems we are having so we can install the latest game drivers.

Nvidia has sucked in many of orders of magnitude worse than AMD far far more times, and continues to do so on a regular basis. Right now there are people still not able to upgrade to the latest Nvidia driver, just like always.

I hope AMD gets back to stability, and if you want you can use a stable driver only install - that's what some people are doing, avoiding the new 20.x.x series software - don't install the AMD tools - only install the driver.

Sound familiar? - for years we recommended to not install Geforce Experience, or HD Sound, or 3d Driver, or anything else Nvidia offers except for the driver only install. And, use DDU between Nvidia driver versions to avoid corruption of the install - that was a problem for many years, and can still be a problem. That's mostly why DDU exists, because of Nvidia installer problems.

AMD is hopefully only briefly sitting in the dunce seat where Nvidia has been hogging their clown of fools spot for decades, and AMD will pull out of it - after so much time I give Nvidia no chance of doing the same.

I have faith that Nvidia won't stop putting out bad drivers and support software, just like Microsoft. There are likely more than 50% of Nvidia users with problems, but they are now so shell shocked over time that they don't even complain any more, they just live with it.

It does suck that AMD is now in that role along with those 2 leaders of unreliably bad software.

Check Nvidia's own forums for every new release, people are complaining about serious problems release after release for years and years:

GeForce 442.19 Game Ready Driver Feedback Thread (Released 2/3/20)
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...e-44219-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

Announcing GeForce Hotfix Driver 442.37 (Released 02/14/20)
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...cing-geforce-hotfix-driver-44237-released-02/

What is so frustrating is that I'm sure most of the AMD users problems are solvable - as people with the same hardware don't have any problems while some do:

detrol2k@ hardcoregames™ on Feb 24, 2020 11:33 PM
"Well, my issue was basically the card greatly underperforming, like 30% of it's full potential. I searched and tried all possible fixes and in the end made a thread on Jonny Guru's forums, after a long discussion the issue was my main PCIE lane which kept the card's bus at x1 1.1 no matter how much graphical stress I did to it.

I swapped it on the second lane which was also x16 according to the datasheet of the MOBO but here it stays at x8 3.0 which is enough to make the card very well usable.

I think on my side it was just an incompatibility between the card and the motherboard. The card specifically because I tossed my old RX 580 in it and it ran at x16 3.0 so we can't discuss a faulty MOBO at this point.

It was 3 months of pure frustration until I managed to find this fix with help. After that there's literally no more issues, even got freesync 75hz enabled and no crashes / black screens... "

I've mentioned to people countless times to set their PCIE to 3.0 and don't leave it on auto, force PCIE 3.0 for your video card if the auto-setting isn't cutting it.

And there are people that insist on use a riser cable to mount vertically even when those PCIE 3.0 cable's aren't designed for PCIE 4.0, they are just asking for intermittent trouble.

There are so many things needed to pay attention to that it's no surprise that 50% of the new users are unable to catch all the details and nuances quick enough to have a stable configuration. After a while they get shell shocked going so long with problems. There's just not enough experienced people available to help everyone get through their learning curve quickly.

Using cutting edge technology usually requires relearning old ways and recognizing new problems and new solutions in seemingly unrelated area's in order to have a happy stable PC. It takes time to get through those rough patches.

 

Apart from suffering the static noise coming out of sleep mode issue on my ex Acer Predator helios 500, haven't had any issues with drivers (though in fairness, Acer bears a huge portion of the responsibility for abandoning the unit mere 6 months after release).

In fact a friends desktop which has RX 570 works fine with latest drivers, and numerous official reviewers and personal users said that after using DDU and other steps to clean-install the drivers, it worked fine for them (we're talking Navi users). For various official reviewers though, they hadn't experienced issues from the first go (because they installed the hw correctly).
Granted for some, the drivers were finicky at best, but we're talking about a group of people who really don't dwarf NV users that also experience same issues.

Though in AMD's case, the subset of users experiencing issues seem to come from cheaper brands of GPU's (like Asus), bad installations and weird system configurations.

Plus, Windows has a tendency to but in with its own auto-install of GPU drivers once you remove the AMD ones (so you kinda have to disable internet temporarily to install AMD drivers and avoid Windows from messing that up).
This is probably something AMD needs to work on, but in fairness, MS didn't exactly code the OS with AMD in mind.

 

Sorry, but until that is resolved, I won't even consider big Navi this year. AMD needs to get on it.

 

So AMD is supposed to keep an eye out on user ineptitude (along with MS's lack of coding/care), and yet NV doesn't have anything to worry about?
The installation process alone for AMD is more straight-forward than NV's.

Also, what's the big deal in using DDU to clean install the drivers and disabling Windows auto-update?
Its not like we hadn't experienced same issues with NV's drivers in the past that required the same thing (and still do).

In fact, using DDU is considered standard practice when installing completely new drivers or hw inside Windows (for that matter, we should blame MS for creating updates that break people's computers and don't play well with previous updates)... in fact, if you change sufficiently large amount of HW in Windows, it IS recommended to clean-install the OS and avoid any issues (especially in the case of changing the mobo).
How about the proverbial mountain of black screens, BSOD's and non-functional GPU's on NV's end that users experience now?
Reddit forums apart, NV forums are swimming in those reported issues.

Seriously, AMD's problem is WAY overblown due to user incompetence.
Yes, they have problems they need to iron out, but don't act as if NV doesn't have same/similar issues.
If you want to be fair, you should avoid BOTH camps until they BOTH iron out their drivers (which is not likely to happen unless they implement AI to program the drivers and adapt them to each config).

 

To be fair, the number of NV discrete laptops > AMD discrete GPU + APU ones. As such, you will see more complaints about NV issues vs AMD issues.

Otoh, not having to deal with GSync whitelisting for panels, better VRR compatibility with AMD from external monitors, and with a new breed of AMD CPU and discrete GPU coming soon, it looks like AMD will begin to dig into laptop sales more. Heck, even NV is allowing new GSync monitors to also work as FreeSync ones demonstrates pressure from monitor OEMs to allow them to make one type of gaming panel model.

 

Mainly talking about desktops.
However, you are not wrong in the sense that right now, NV type laptops by far outnumber AMD ones (also in design build/quality and also cooling - AMD usually gets short end of the stick, except for Acer Helios 500 - monster cooling that puts desktops to shame even) ... up until recently, AMD did have a huge issue with mobile drivers by not really releasing any viable updates too often for mobile users.
Now however, the drivers seem more or less universally updated (for mobile too).. but I'd still recommend a clean install (especially on an OEM laptop that comes pre-installed with a lot of gunk software as that causes more harm than good).

 

He outlined literal driver related issues, which is software, and you scream user error, but do not give the same argument for nvidia while claiming similar problems. Curious...

Truth is, although I've had nvidia drivers screw up scores, I have not wound up with black screens outside of pushing them hard when overclocking. I've seen card specific issues with artifacts and memory.

But, when Navi is having these issues with the 5700 and 5500, until and unless resolved, Nvidia will get my money.

AMD needs to get these complaints dealt with in the next month to month and a half. I'm in the market, so will wait after release about a month or two for the dust to settle between AMD and nvidia. But after that, it's going to come down to performance per dollar and driver/support.

The point of Adored's video is that he overlooked these issues for too long. So I will wait and see.

 

Nah, I'll buy Big Navi even if it's broken at launch, and I'll work on debugging the problems and post solutions, just like always.

Q. What's the difference between AMD broken drivers and Nvidia broken drivers?

A. Nvidia broken drivers come with decades of experience.

Of course we wait for new products to work out their bugs before buying them, nothing different from any other company or product.

Except Intel, we never buy Intel...because the security bugs never stop being found.

Or, is that Microsoft where the bugs never stop being released as patches?

If we waited for all the bugs to be fixed before buying anything, we'd never buy anything.

If you are technically competent, you can get the AMD Radeon drivers installed and your Navi GPU working. It's an automatic thing after you understand all the gotcha's, just like anything else you have to be careful of certain things that are sensitive during the parts selection, software installation, and configuration. It's a learning process. Most people are used to Nvidia, now they get used to AMD.

Nvidia has trashed releases over and over and over for decades, it's nothing new, we check for new driver problems reported by those that must check them out, then run the latest drivers that work for our configuration - and only run the software required to get functionality.

AMD is getting more attention now because there are far more people building new Ryzen systems and learning how to configure them and overclock them - it's new, it takes time, they'll learn and get through it. Or they won't and will have to think about it and come back later.

 

Outside of the bloatware and transcoding limitations I've never had a problem with NVIDIA drivers, so I'm not sure what you're going on and on about there. I've had 30+ NVIDIA cards in the past 2 years too...

 

So besides the problems you've had with Nvidia drivers, you haven't had any problems??

That's where fanboyism gets in the way of facing reality, being honest about it you would have said:

I've had problems with Nvidia drivers over the years too. Period.

You didn't mention avoiding newest versions of the Nvidia driver releases to avoid problems, but here on NBR there are forum threads for just that reason. Their laptops won't support newer versions of Nvidia drivers - Nvidia keeps screwing them up - so they need to check each time new releases arrive to make sure they can run the new release, and most often they haven't been able to do so over these many years. They keep waiting for new releases that will work for their particular needs and problems.

New Windows OS releases vs new Nvidia driver releases, which broke who? Every time a new OS release comes out we have to figure out which Nvidia driver works best and which to avoid. Same goes the other way around. Each new Nvidia driver release causes new problems along with the ones it fixes - and some of those fixes don't work or need to be redone, in a future release.

There are plenty of complaints about crappy Nvidia drivers throughout NBR over many many years.

As a moderator I'm surprised you aren't aware of that.

Just because you refuse to see or to admit the problems, doesn't mean they don't exist.

The thousands posting in Nvidia's support forums, and across many website support forums including here on NBR would differ vehemently with your pollyannic view of Nvidia drivers.

Your statement looks silly to those of us that actually face the reality of dealing with Nvidia driver problems. We have to support others work and they further broaden our exposure to problems they are experiencing.

If you don't do things that have problems, you don't have problems, that doesn't mean that problems don't exist - if you look beyond the end of your own nose. 30 cards or 300 cards, if you don't vary the use you won't see problems.

That was the problem with Hardware Unboxed too. The weren't seeing the problems because their narrow use wasn't exposing them. And, they didn't recognize until recently that yes, they have had problems with installs needing to be redone several times before working - then they have no problems - with their narrow use.

Look around for Nvidia driver problems reported here on NBR over the last 10 years, you won't have to search long or far.

 

I somewhat have to disagree here. You are claiming a 30% issue rate with Nvidia drivers where as if we have had experience with 20 or so cards it would by law of averages be suspicious if we experience no issues.

 

I hope the irony of this statement isn't lost on anyone.

 

No, it's not. Either is the fact that there is no 'conversation' going on here. Same old drivel, day after day from the same viewpoint. Almost like a 'bot', no?

 

Yeah, you are drawing too much from those numbers, they were only drawn from a particular poll done by Hardware Unboxed looking for the percentage of AMD users with driver problems, not Nvidia driver problems.

I don't think they actually calculated their numbers correctly but that's what they were quoting so I am going by their method.

I mis-quoted their numbers were 48% of AMD users and 22% of PC users had problems with their CURRENT GPU's drivers.

I've updated my quote with this edit:

"What are you talking about? Nvidia has had the crappiest drivers for years while AMD wasn't even being called out - the percentage of people with bad Nvidia problems is very high too, only 22% compared to the 48% with AMD driver problems right now.

Edit: Note that I am referring to the recent survey done by Hardware Unboxed, and although that was a limited pool of respondents it's the same pool where the 48% number of AMD users having problems was calculated from as well:

https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/8...radeon-graphics-cards-over-driver-issues.html "

Out of the pool of users that replied to HU's poll, 13% had Nvidia driver problems while 19% had AMD driver problems. Looking at it that way it looks less of a difference.

HU did their calculations based on those that answered Nvidia vs Nvidia and those that answered AMD vs AMD to try to separate the populations, but IDK if that truly depicts the problem percentages accurately.

Given this poll is only for the users CURRENT GPU, polled right in the middle of the worst AMD driver problems ever, vs Nvidia having just gotten over several releases of driver issues - as I've seen users report them and as I've experienced - the current 442.19 is working fine for me for example - even though complaints continue on Nvidia's own support forums for each new release. So I think that skews the numbers greatly.

The 22% number is only helpful in the discussion of their 48% number, not elsewhere as in why didn't @custom90gt have 22% of his cards have driver problems or why weren't 22% of his drivers problematic, that's not what it measured.

My point is that Nvidia has had far more problems in a sustained continual and consistent way over the years - with many full stop bad drivers and problematic "bloatware" - or services and features as Nvidia would like to call them - and to ignore those like they never happened and now condemn AMD for having the first real release issues in many years is wrong.

AMD's recent problems with 20.x.x series of drivers is also with their "Bloatware" not the driver. Install driver only and many more people with problems have them solved.

AMD is getting an influx of new users migrating from Intel and Nvidia, so there's bound to be problems - and AMD is pushing a lot of new features in their "bloatware" so that was bound to go wrong eventually - as it has in the past for Nvidia as well.

Neither Nvidia nor AMD are without driver problems, but historically - at least for all I have observed - which is a lot - Nvidia has had the most consistently problematic drivers and "Bloatware" between the two.

 

You can't give any credence to poll numbers as those finding the poles are from searches of driver issues etc., duh.

 

What does this mean? Where did this thought come from?:

" as those finding the poles are from searches of driver issues etc., duh."

I didn't find that poll via searches of driver issues, nor was the poll based on searches of driver issues. So I'm not sure where you got that idea.

The poll is a direct user poll of the audience of Hardware Unboxed viewers, and the poll is discussed here:

Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues
Can we still recommend Radeon GPUs?
By Steven Walton on February 13, 2020
https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/8...radeon-graphics-cards-over-driver-issues.html

"...Given we haven’t run into any major bug ourselves, we decided to run a poll on HUB's YouTube community channel to try and work out how many AMD users are affected and get some feedback on the problems they’re encountering."

Nearly half of all AMD users who took part in the poll responded ‘Yes’, they are having or have had serious issues with their Radeon GPU. The poll suggests that 48% of all AMD users have suffered major issues, while we see less than half that figure for Nvidia users at 22%.

The poll was conducted as a general question and we didn’t target Navi specifically, but based on the comments that went below the poll, most AMD users claimed to be running a 5700 series graphics card.

Naturally, there’s going to be some dodgy votes in there, but we don’t believe a few fanboys are going to skew the data too heavily after gathering over 49,000 votes. That’s a large enough sample size to take as evidence that AMD has a major problem they need to address.

Because we haven't experienced these issues ourselves, we've been unable to troubleshoot them on our own. One educated guess is this stems from a hardware compatibility issue which is more and more likely based on the data and feedback we received from our recent poll. Another possibility is that a lot of these problems could be caused by bad driver installs."

...and they go on to describe the ways in which the driver problems can manifest, even though they don't see the problems themselves...

 

People looking for info on video's and such about driver issues are usually those same people with issues. they then fill out the poles.

Edit; on topic the 3960x, at least at retail price, is a hot seller. Amazon had them yesterday but today it is out except in a store doing price gouging.

 

Those aren't problems, those are things I don't like about them, don't confuse the two in order to fit your agenda. The drivers functioned stock and never actually provided any issues. I never had issues with the latest NVIDIA drivers on any of the 20+ laptops I've had with NVIDIA cards as well. I'm not a fanboy of NVIDIA, I defended AMD's drivers in the other thread. Unlike you, I don't have any blind loyalty to any brand (speaking of seeing past your own nose). NVIDIA is simply the fastest right now and that's what I use.

Again, I never had any issues with the newest versions of windows and the newest NVIDIA drivers. I install them the same day they come out...

I don't refuse to see or admit the "the problems," I said that of the 30+ NVIDIA cards and 20+ laptops with NVIDIA dGPUs, I've never had a problem with the drivers. It would be super easy to search the google machine to find years worth of AMD or NVIDIA driver problems, it proves nothing. And if you think it proves something, then you have to accept the fact that AMD has had just as many issues as NVIDIA. Pick one...

You love to say how everyone on the forum is a fanboy, but you are clearly the biggest AMD fanboy on the forum. AMD can do no wrong and Intel/NVIDIA can't do anything right. You try to lecture me on a pollyannic view point, but I fear you are the kettle in this scenario.

 

I don't consider what you said as defending AMD's drivers either:

"Sure I'm game, I didn't have any issues with my RX580 in my server. Having said that, I do prefer NVIDIA drivers even though they come loaded with tons of bloatware and crap (but you can get around that with some work). Oh and NVIDIA's limiting of video transcoding on "consumer" cards is total crap too, AMD doesn't do that."

What are you doing with that RX580 in a server that will exercise any bugs that may exist in the driver? That's not exactly an exhaustive use case. Server GPU's aren't used for much.

And, I also said the current Nvidia 442.19 drivers haven't given *me* any problems, but that doesn't mean there aren't any problems because I am not having any problems with them - there are plenty of people complaining about that driver too:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...e-44219-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

And, in quick succession yet another Nvidia driver update 442.50, and there are still people complaining about that driver too:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforc...e-44250-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

Funny, I said to search here on NBR - where you are an admin, why did you open up the search to the internet at large?

In a sea of Intel / Nvidia fanboi's I was one lone positive voice about AMD, but more so - far more so - down on the stupid decisions of Nvidia for years culminating with RTX, and Intel over many years for dying on the vine by never releasing 10nm after years of missed promises. Intel still hasn't released 10nm desktops!

Now after 3 years of AMD killing Intel, and AMD getting 35% of the mid-range sales of GPU's - with buggy "bloatware" even, it's not as unusual is it?

As I have said several times, with new users migrating from Intel / Nvidia to AMD Ryzen / Radeon, there is a steep learning curve for them to master.

Most of the problems I see with Radeon installs are eventually solved by fixing related user inflicted problems. Or simply DDU'ing and re-installing - sometimes a couple of times. AMD needs to get their installer cleaned up that's where most of the injury is being inflicted.

The same can be said with Nvidia installs over the years as well. I've helped far more Nvidia users - use DDU, only install the drivers with a Custom Clean install, don't run the latest driver - use xxx instead, etc etc etc.

Having done that for many years here and a number of client sites, I know first hand just how easy it is for a user - even an experienced builder - to screw things up unrelated to the GPU, yet they are blaming their GPU - because it's the thing they see - the display results come out of the GPU, so it must be the GPU!

Once that is locked in their head, that's what they remember, even if the actual problem is unrelated.

Don't worry about it. If things are working for you then that's nice

 

Server GPUs don't do much? They must just be there to look pretty I suppose? No my particular server uses the GPU for hours each day. It does a ton of video transcoding with multiple streams, it functions as a steam stream machine, it does some calculations, it does some benching. But you're right, I don't really test it. Hence the reason I've gone from a RX580 to an RTX 2070, I actually was taxing the RX580 and being bottle necked by it.

I am running 442.50 on the desktop and server, nothing that I've noticed so far... Oh and no need for DDU to do so.

And my google thing was just a sarcastic counterpoint to your unrealistic comment about NVIDIA being the only one to have driver issues, but ok let's play the game.
The biggest driver issues I've ever had was with my 6790m in my Clevo, let's see what I find on the subject:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/6970m-driver-update-issue.600263/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/m17x-r3-6970m-drive-issues.784805/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/m17x-r3-w-amd-graphics-driver-issue.719154/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...deon-hd-6970m-screen-keeps-turned-off.737716/
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...970m-failure-to-load-detection-driver.690381/
Yawn, totally board but there are MANY more examples of this. I could likely do this for any other AMD cards. Oh and before you tell me blah it's ATI and not AMD, you're the one that said to go back years... I can also find issues with RX 470 drivers on this forum, even though AMD cards are very unpopular on laptops because they just don't come close to NVIDIA right now. I'm excited for them to be competitive again, but they aren't there yet.

Oh cool I forgot about this thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/6970-enabling-overdrive-and-undervolting-your-r3.590979/

Anyway I've forgotten what point you were trying to make. Oh that NVIDIA drivers suck and AMD's don't?

 

No, my experience has been that Nvidia drivers have sucked longer and harder and more consistently than AMD drivers.

And, now I am giving the same advice to AMD users that I have been giving to Nvidia users with driver problems.

0) Revert any OC or BIOS / VBIOS tuning. If you can remember the last change you made before the problems show up, try reversing that first before making any other changes. Be calm, don't Panic, the problem came from somewhere, we'll find it.

If that doesn't fix it, or you think a recent driver update caused the problem, start here:

1) Use DDU in Safe Mode to clear out your many driver installations - start with a clean slate.

2) Do the clean install option from the driver installer.

3) Only install the software you need - start with just the driver and see if you are stable and getting the performance you need from a driver only install.

4) Make sure your driver global settings are at defaults, and start from there looking for stability.

5) If worst comes to worst, and you can't find the change that caused the problem, and reverting to previous GPU driver versions doesn't help - before you decide it's hardware, backup to a previously known good installation of the operating system.

It's a simple step by step debugging process that most new users don't know to follow, and get lost on some tangent trying to debug the problems and then end up giving up.

And, that's what I am seeing here now with AMD users and the 20.x.x drivers - they are giving up because they are lost for solving the problem they are stuck in right now.

I can see a number of them solving their problems eventually if they keep sticking with the debugging. And so far it's not been the GPU hardware at fault, and often it's not even the driver, it's the "bloatware" - the control software which AMD updated to with 20.x.x.

It sucks because you have to work on the problem rather than just installing and going, but I've run far more Nvidia users through exactly the same scenario time after time for many years.

That's my experience, and that's my point, I've had to fix far more Nvidia problems on PC's - even as a UNIX / Linux / MacOS user than AMD users over the years.

Anyway, like I said, if you don't have any problems, enjoy it. No sense getting all hot and bothered over something you aren't experiencing, right?

 

Get a lot of MacOS users with their NVIDIA cards these days eh? Our experiences do not mash up from my work as a tech over the years, but that all irrelevant. Anyway I think we've beat this dead horse long enough.

I'd be happy if AMD released a 12 or 16 core threadripper so I could take advantage of quad channel memory again. Can't justify that price there sadly so I've been looking at even going back to X299 for the server if I don't pick up a cheap 1920x or 2920x...

 

custom90gt: Answers questions posed by AMD fanboy, citing multiple links

AMD fanboy: Y U mad, bro?

I swear to Christ, the greatest literary minds of our generation couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Yeah, some MacOS users really miss Nvidia GPU's, but Apple figured out Nvidia sucks right about the time I did.

Nvidia ain't gonna get back on MacOS any time soon...

x299 should have been dead, and would have been dead if Intel could have figured out how to deliver the 10nm replacement for it. Too bad.

It's not that much for a 3960x + TRX40 motherboard vs x299, certainly not when at the same performance level

There was no way AMD could justify releasing 2 16 core CPU's at the same time. AM4 16 core was a miracle to the desktop consumer, and nothing much to the core market of the HEDT user community - except for the IO guys of course, they wouldn't mind an 8 core ThreadRipper 3 part with PCIE 4.0.

But, then again the less expensive to make and buy ThreadRipper 2/1 work fine for those requirements that don't need the highest CPU performance of ThreadRipper 3.

Unfortunately AMD isn't as big as Intel, AMD needs to watch their investments carefully and they can't place two bets on the same core count CPU - they've learned that from ThreadRipper 1 and 2.

OK, Peace.

 

New AMD Adrenaline 2020 20.2.2 is available for download

"Important: Although Radeon Software Adrenalin 2020 Edition 20.2.2 solves many problems with the black screen, AMD is aware that some users may still experience black screen problems or system hangs during extended seasons. AMD will continue to closely monitor and investigate reports of these issues"

 

Isn't that nice. The new AMD Adrenaline 2020 20.2.2 driver solves some problems. And, AMD is looking out for more problems.

Seems good, right?

 

Yeah, but some said this isn't a "real problems" Why fix something that ain't broke

 

Well, for many it's not a real problem, as they don't see it happen on their system.

That's really the problem, everyone has their own realm of experience, and outside of that realm of existence doesn't exist for them personally so they have trouble understanding or relating to what they aren't experiencing themselves.

Just like the many thousands of customers with Nvidia driver problems, they are alone in their quest to get Nvidia to solve their problems because there are so many that don't see those problems themselves, so Nvidia can ignore them, continually.

At least AMD has been woken up to solving problems some of their users are seeing. After solving those and working out their "bloatware" bugs it will be smooth sailing again.

At least until the next major software remake, or next new architecture hardware release...

 

Sadly the $1800 entry fee to go with a 3960x and MB is out of my budget. The 3950x is cool, but it doesn't have the memory speed/IO that I would like. I can either pick up a used TR setup or a used x299 setup. The x299 setup would be much more fun to overclock and game better, but I'm still undecided at this point. Either setup will cost much less than the 3960x itself...

 

Before summer time?

Or when they push out the big boy? Wont help all those with problems now. And AMD is at least honest... The problems is real. You can't push it under the carpet in the way I have seen in this thread.

 

Yeah, I'll give them until a month or two after Boothe cards drop, unless it looks like the memory shortage, etc. From the corona-V is going to hit, then it is who is out first with performance per dollar and works for extended periods without black screens. I'm willing to consider AMD IF they actually have it working by then.

This is the exact statement I had on this months ago. Finding Intel at a reasonable price, or the price they claimed for the 10th gen is a different story, though.

 

Actually it's looking pretty great right now. We'll have to watch for user reports as they come in...

AMD really "went crazy" with this update, and the "fixed bugs list" is long and contains a lot of on point fixes:

Radeon Software Adrenalin 2020 Edition 20.2.2 Highlights

Spoiler: Long list of fixes:

Fixed Issues

• Performing a task switch with some Radeon Software features enabled or some third-party applications with hardware acceleration running in the background may cause a system hang or black screen.
• Improvements have been made that allow for more responsive fan ramp up or fan ramp down times on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report lower than expected clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products during gaming workloads.
• When Instant Replay is enabled, a TDR or black screen may occur when launching games or applications.
• A black screen may occur when toggling HDR on in the game settings of Battlefield™ V.
• The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt™ may experience an application hang or black screen during certain parts of the game or intermittently during gameplay.
• Some video content in Chrome™ may appear as a black screen or be unresponsive on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products when hardware acceleration is enabled.
• Metro Exodus™ may experience an application hang or TDR when choosing some specific dialogue prompts in the Sam’s Story DLC.
• Grand Theft Auto™ V may experience an application crash when invoking Radeon Software’s overlay with third party OSD applications running.
• Monster Hunter World™: Iceborne may experience intermittent crashes while idle or on the character creation screen.
• Some games colors may appear washed out when HDR mode has been enabled in game and Windows® on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products
• After a Factory Reset installation with the ‘Keep My Settings’ option chosen, Instant Replay could fail to function if it was enabled in the previous Radeon Software installation.
• When invoking Radeon Software’s overlay while a game is open users may observe flickering in the game or in the Radeon Software interface.
• Radeon Software may experience a crash and error message when locking Windows® or performing a sleep or hibernate with the Radeon Software Streaming tab open.
• A loss of display with working audio may be experienced on a limited number of displays when performing a mode change on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products.
• Radeon Software may fail to launch if Radeon Software’s overlay is disabled and a game is running in the background.
• Battlefield™ V may experience an application hang or TDR after extended periods of play.
• Some Origin™ games may fail to be detected or may detect the incorrect game title in Radeon Software.
• Some productivity applications are being detected and listed in the Radeon Software games tab.
• The Radeon Chill hotkey could sometimes continue to remain enabled once the user has removed or disabled the hotkey.
• Red Dead Redemption™ 2 may exhibit blocky textures on snow covered terrain.
• After resuming from sleep, Chrome™ may experience an application crash if video content was previously playing on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.
• Radeon FreeSync status in Radeon Software may sometimes fail to update when enabling or disabling the feature through the display itself.
• Fortnite™ may experience an application crash on Radeon RX 500 series Hybrid Graphics system configurations.

Known Issues - [Open issues to fix]

• Enhanced Sync may cause a black screen to occur when enabled on some games and system configurations. Enhanced Sync has been temporarily disabled from the gaming profile and any users who may be experiencing issues with Enhanced Sync enabled should disable it as a temporary workaround.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report higher than expected idle clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products. Performance and power consumption are not impacted by this incorrect reporting.
• DOOM™ may experience an intermittent system hang or application crash during gameplay. [Not DOOM!!]
• Desktop cursor may intermittently remain visible after toggling Radeon Software’s overlay in some games. A workaround is to bring up the game menu or task switch to refresh the cursor. [This happens to me on Nvidia 2070 Super]
• A system crash or hang may occur when running the Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers™ benchmark. [Not FF Again!!]
• The Gaming tab in Radeon Software may display some folder locations appearing as games. [What's the problem?]
• Radeon Software may open with an inconsistent window size or may not keep its previously set size when opened. [Mildly annoying]
• Modifying the HDMI Scaling slider may cause FPS to become locked to 30. [Stop scaling, use native resolution]
• Some games may exhibit stutter intermittently during gameplay on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products. [Buy a faster 5700 / 5700XT GPU?]
• Some games may experience stutter while using Instant Replay or third-party applications that stream or perform screen capture. A potential workaround is to disable these features or applications while gaming. [I always disable these features, even on Nvidia GPU's, turn off all that Bloatware crap]
• Although Radeon Software Adrenalin 2020 Edition 20.2.2 resolves many black screen issues, [!!!!] AMD is aware that some users may still experience black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay. AMD will continue to monitor and investigate reports of these issues closely. [I see what AMD did there... "monitor" like the display, with the Black Screen... ]

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-2-2

" AMD Issue Reporting Form
This driver release incorporates suggestions received through the AMD Issue Reporting Form. To provide us with your feedback, visit the AMD Issue Reporting Form."

"This optional release of Radeon Software Adrenalin 2020 Edition is targeted towards resolving recent important issues identified by our community.

We will be closely monitoring feedback on the release, and encourage users to submit issues they encounter at www.amd.com/report."

So, that's nice, right?

Did anyone else cheer with joy when reading the 20.2.2 patch notes?!
Posted by u/Mod_B 8 hours ago

" Every issue I've had has been addressed in fixed issues."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...lse_cheer_with_joy_when_reading_the/?sort=new

ElectricCuddles 2 hours ago
"Couldn't have chose a better time to get a 5700XT finally. Pretty excited for the XFX THICC 3 ultra!"

Actually, there might be a brief window to get a great deal on a new 5700 / 5700xt, what with the "driver panic" going on, here's another guy that saved a ton of $ at Microcenter on a new 5700xt:

Potential driver issues and a blower cooler, but I just couldn't pass up the deal.
Posted by u/haahaahaa 3 hours ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/fb2qi2/potential_driver_issues_and_a_blower_cooler_but_i/


What a great idea, cash in on the panic by *buying* a 5700 / 5700xt!!

He saved $60, dropped from $299 to $239, and what a lucky "B" on the same day AMD dropped a new driver update that fixes a ton of the reported problems...

Sqadro 3 hours ago
"Looks like the newest driver that got released several hours ago fixed tons of issues some people were having. As for the blower cooler - might be worth looking into undervolting that GPU as there's almost no downsides of doing it, since it just makes the card draw less power therefore run cooler with less audible blower (fan curve can be also manually tweaked) & barely any performance impact."

waltc33 9 hours ago
"I own the 5700XT 50th Ann Ed, and I don't undervolt, I always run with +50% power, my fan profile is default, I haven't done the "washer mod", and I can play for hours on end without ever hearing the fan. So, I wouldn't worry too much about the "blower fan"...it's among the old wives' tales concerning the fan design. You seem to have snagged a great price!.... Oh, and the latest drivers are fine, btw! Happy gaming!"