AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

There aren't 64GB UDIMM's available to make 512GB happen for the TRX40 - yet? The largest UDIMM's I have found are 32GB.

With 4 channels (2 UDIMM's per channel) = 8 slots x 32GB DIMM = 256GB, making that the current TRX40 motherboard maximum.

With Epyc you can get higher density RDIMM / LRDIMM memory x 16 slots, 64GB / 128GB / 256GB for up to 4TB per socket of memory.

IDK if the UDIMM sockets on TRX40 can take higher density compatible UDIMM's, or even if the UDIMM spec allows larger sizes. I didn't find anything referencing 64GB UDIMM's...

The rumors for sWRX8 give hope for higher density memory compatibility with RDIMM and LRDIMM memory like Epyc, and even 8 channel memory support is rumored, but IDK if the current ThreadRipper 3 series can support such expansion on a new sTRX8 motherboard, or if it will require new ThreadRipper 3 variations.

Threadripper 3000 Platform Leaks: sTRX4 and sWRX8
https://www.cgdirector.com/threadri...eadripper_3000_Platform_Leaks_sTRX4_and_sWRX8

Threadripper 3970/3990x and max ram?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/eyied6/threadripper_39703990x_and_max_ram/

"Does anybody happen to know what is the maximum amount of ram I can stuff into the current threadrippers? From what I can see, they support up to 1tb of ram, but it seems there are only 256gb kits on the market, outside of lrdimm/rdimm, which don't work on trx40.

Also, does anybody have issues running 256gb of ram on tr?"

Hauven, 4 days ago
"Motherboards are officially stating 256GB, although the processor should be able to handle more. For example, when I ran a 2990WX the officially stated memory capacity was 128GB. Back then it was extremely rare or even non-existent initially to find UDIMM memory modules that were 32GB each. Once I managed to get my hands on 8 x 32GB modules I tried them and it worked fine. Once denser memory modules become more common as UDIMM or unregistered ECC then I'm anticipating the TRX40 motherboards will support it."

fer662, 1 day ago
"So... Pretty much 512GB if the 64GB modules come out while TRX40 is still relevant?"
codekoala, 4 days ago
"I stuffed 256GB in my 3970X+Zenith II Extreme build, and I've been running it just fine at 3000MHz for a couple weeks. It was unstable at the rated 3200MHz, but I'm ok with that. I was more concerned about capacity and stability than speed. Perhaps one day I'll dabble with tweaking settings to speed things up a bit. I'm using 8x32GB G.Skill Ripjaws V (F4-3200C16-32GVK) if anyone cares."

 

It's amazing to see a ~$7000 ThreadRipper 3990x build taking on > $20k Intel CPU's (CPU's only):

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X Offers Incredible Linux Performance
Written by Michael Larabel on 7 February 2020. Page 1 of 8. 56 Comments
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=3990x-threadripper-linux

"If you are looking for the absolute best single-socket workstation performance for Linux, there has already been the Threadripper 3970X that easily outperforms the likes of the Core i9 10980XE as Intel's top-end HEDT product, but now the Threadripper 3990X is shipping.

The Threadripper 3990X is AMD's first 64-core / 128-thread desktop / workstation processor and will love your multi-threaded workloads from code compilation to content creation. As shown in our benchmarks, this single CPU is indeed faster than $20k worth of Intel Xeon Platinum CPUs...."

numacross 02-07-2020, 11:13 AM
Meanwhile in Windows the SMT status and OS edition matter a lot for such a large CPU. Anandtech has a good explanation of the issues, but it boils down to having as big differences as:

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/for...dible-linux-performance?p=1158390#post1158390

 

Now seeing the 3990x we can tell as of today nothing is requiring the memory pipe of the sTRX80 where as the entire TR lineup could benefit from a sWRX80 and the access to over 256GB.

 

I don't see where you can get that from, since none of those motherboards are released yet. To differentiate themselves from the TRX40 motherboards they would need to offer additional features - like more memory channels, RDIMM / LRDIMM support at 64GB / 128GB / 256GB.

AFAIK an 8 channel motherboard will require new ThreadRipper 3 (4?) CPU sku's, unless AMD hasn't disclosed everything about their currently released ThreadRipper 3 CPU's.

 

The Bearded one and Steve "Gamers Nexus" lap a ThreadRipper 3970x, because - why not?

AMD Threadripper CPU Lapping & LN2 Prep, ft. Bearded Hardware & 3970X
Feb 8, 2020
Gamers Nexus
We're lapping an AMD Threadripper CPU, the 3970X, with Joe from Bearded Hardware. The AMD Threadripper 3970X needs to have its nickel plating removed for better contact with overclocking, but we also need to prepare for our 3990X XOC livestream (and later AMD Threadripper 3990X review). In this video, we're working with Joe Stepongzi to learn about AMD TR CPU lapping and to sand down our Hyper Beast LN2 container.

 

The benchmarks so far all seem to scale well and not be bandwidth restricted. from 3970x to the 3990x. Even when PBO is stretching the limits. Now once we get to the limits of, if ever of, using 512GB or a TB of ram this may be a different story.

Edit; I also am not saying it will happen but I can see why they may at one point looked at a sWRX80.

 

Don't forget to run your 3990x on Windows Enterprise to get full 64c/128t usage, or if you can move to Linux.

The 64 Core Threadripper 3990X CPU Review: In The Midst Of Chaos, AMD Seeks Opportunity
by Dr. Ian Cutress & Gavin Bonshor on February 7, 2020 9:00 AM EST
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

" The Windows and Multithreading Problem (A Must Read)
Unfortunately, not everything is just as straightforward as installing Windows 10 and going off on a 128 thread adventure. Most home users that have Windows typically have versions of Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro, which are both fairly ubiquitous even among workstation users. The problem that these operating systems have rears its ugly head when we go above 64 threads. Now to be clear, Microsoft never expected home (or even most workstations) systems to go above this amount, and to a certain extent they are correct.

Whenever Windows experiences more than 64 threads in a system, it separates those threads into processor groups. The way this is done is very rudimentary: of the enumerated cores and threads, the first 64 go into the first group, the second 64 go into the next group, and so on. This is most easily observed by going into task manager and trying to set the affinity of a particular program:..."

...see the article for graphs and more...

"We still have most of the performance on the chip (and we’ll see later in the benchmarks). However, some of the performance has been lost – if I wanted 64 threads, I’d save some money and get the 32-core! There seems to be no easy way around this.

But then we remember that there are different versions of Windows 10.[!! and Linux too !!]

From Wikipedia

Microsoft at retail sells Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Pro for Workstations, and we can also find keys for Windows 10 Enterprise for sale. Each of these, aside from the usual feature limitations based on the market, also have limitations on processor counts and sockets. In the diagram above, we can see where it says Windows 10 Home is limited to 64 cores (threads), whereas Pro/Education versions go up to 128, and then Workstation/Enterprise to 256. There’s also Windows Server.

Now the thing is, Workstation and Enterprise are built with multiple processor groups in mind, whereas Pro is not. This has comes through scheduler adjustments, which aren’t immediately apparent without digging deeper into the finer elements of the design. We saw significant differences in performance.

In order to see the differences, we did the following comparisons:

• 3990X with 64 C / 128 T (SMT On), Win10 Pro vs Win10 Ent
• Win 10 Pro with 3990X, SMT On vs SMT Off

This isn’t just a case of the effect SMT has on overall performance – the way the scheduler and the OS works to make cores available and distribute work are big factors."
...see the article for graphs and more...

" What’s The Verdict?
From our multithreaded test data, there can only be two conclusions. One is to disable SMT, as it seems to get performance uplifts in most benchmarks, given that most benchmarks don’t understand what processor groups are.

However, if you absolutely have to have SMT enabled, then don’t use normal Windows 10 Pro: use Pro for Workstations (or Enterprise) instead. At the end of the day, this is the catch in using hardware that's skirting the line of being enterprise-grade: it also skirts the line with triggering enterprise software licensing.

Thankfully, workstation software that is outright licensed per core is still almost non-existent, unlike the server realm.

Ultimately this puts us in a bit of a quandary for our CPU-to-CPU comparisons on the following pages. Normally we run our CPUs on W10 Pro with SMT enabled, but it’s clear from these benchmarks that in every multithreaded scenario, we won’t get the best result.

We may have to look at how we test processors >16 cores in the future, and run them on Windows 10 Enterprise. Over the following pages, we’ll include W10 Pro and W10 Enterprise data for completeness.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

Hardware Unboxed below seems to have missed this - CB20 shows Windows 10 Pro - and I don't recall him saying anything about which Windows version he used.

No one in the comments section said anything about HU using the wrong Windows either, so this is not a well known difference to those using Windows Home / Pro

=> Move to Windows Enterprise for better core / thread handling over 64 threads (32c/64t) - and I'd like to see testing for the 3950x / 3960x / 3970x as well on Windows Enterpise vs Home / Pro vs Linux.

AMD Threadripper 3990X Review: Intel’s 18-cores, Crushed by AMD’s 64-cores
Feb 7, 2020
Hardware Unboxed


Although for most of us this is way too much CPU, for a large portion of the working world workstation users, these 64c/128t CPU's can be of great value, and all of those happy 3990x users will report to their management how wonderful these ThreadRipper 3990x desktop versions of the Epyc Server CPU's have been, hopefully bringing more pressure on the server guys to add Epyc Servers to their mix.

It was also fun to see that the 3990x matched or beat the 9900k stock in gaming within a few FPS on a 2080ti, probably able to do it with multiple renders and normal application load all at the same time.

It's amazing that the stock power / thermals were so similar between the 3970x and 3990x, 2x the cores distributed over 2x the chips spread the heat out and made it easier to cool, landing at about the same power / temperature results:



Another Microcenter sponsored build (like Level1Techs). It gets pretty wild as time runs out...

You've NEVER Seen ANYTHING Like This Build Before...
Feb 8, 2020
Linus Tech Tips


A good example of why it's always a good idea to build and power up POST test outside your case to test your parts before installing them into the case.

While the parts are outside the case is also a good time to thoroughly read the build instructions for all of the components, including the case internal components - so that you can pre-think through the build order and required parts configurations for fitment.

Getting to the end of a complex build only to find that all that tubing might have to be pulled to debug which component is causing the POST to fail...

Linus does a great job of showing how not-to-do-it. The nice Microcenter Tech notices Linus flailing and comes to his rescue. Most of their interaction is likely off camera or cut in editing.

And if you can, do your builds inside of a warehouse full of parts so that you can make build changes on the fly.

 

1smus delivers another great overclocking guide for Ryzen

Update: New DRAM Calculator for Ryzen v1.7.0:
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3rd Gen Overclocking Deep Dive, feat. ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme
by 1usmus, on Feb 7th, 2020, in Processors. Manufacturer: AMD
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...locking-deep-dive-asus-rog-zenith-ii-extreme/

Amd Ryzen Master 2.1.1.1472 Released
Discussion in ' Frontpage news' started by Alberto, Friday at 9:22 PM.
https://www.amd.com/system/files/documents/ryzen-master-quick-reference-guide.pdf

Version : 2.1.1.1472

• [New] Support for latest Ryzen 3990X Threadripper CPU
• [New] Updated dashboard for per-CCD compact minimization to simplify viewing and controlling of cores. Dashboard view remains persistent upon subsequent application launches
• [New] Toggle for preferred core options to be based on current
• Ryzen Master (OC) method or Windows (OS) method
• [New] Persistent PCD toggle option for EDC/TDC/PPT to allow settings to remain after reboot
• Cores speed shown from sleep to maximum frequency
• Precision Boost Overdrive mode now available for mainstream processors
• Auto Overclocking mode extends boost frequency while still under processor automation control
• Deep display and control of memory module parameters for enthusiast tuning
• Eco-Mode shifts processor to lower power operation for applicable Ryzen CPUs
• Peak Core(s) Voltage (formerly CPU Voltage) captures the highest voltage requested for one or more cores at time of sampling
• Average Core Voltage represents the sum average operating voltage of all cores across the sample period, including sleep time

Download : https://download.amd.com/Desktop/AMD-Ryzen-Master.exe

Hardware Unboxed finally gets around to using that watercooled Asrock x570 Aqua motherboard in a 3950x build...

My Ultimate Ryzen 9 3950X Build Complete, X570 Aqua + Corsair Hydro X
Feb 3, 2020
Hardware Unboxed


Way back, about 37 pages, @Talon posted 4 release day 3950x reviews including Hardware Unboxed benchmarking results:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-695#post-10966486


HU attained a quick manual 4.3ghz all core OC on their 3950x, and Gamers Nexus 3950x OC'd all core @ 4.4ghz.

The power draw under load is amazing on the 3950x, a little less than the 3900x:

For some of the test results I'd like to see them redone using Windows 10 Enterprise results + Linux results where possible. Perhaps AMD's high core count CPU's will continue to motivate Microsoft to improve Windows Home / Pro to better handle thread and process management.

 

PCWorld sums up each of the many reviews of the 3990x, but still misses the point that Windows itself is the limiting factor, even though they mention it several times they also list "shortcomings" of the 3990x, but all of them are based on Windows / Application shortcomings - they just aren't ready for that many cores.

Threadripper 3990X review roundup: AMD's 64-core CPU can play Crysis, but it's not for everyone
Its performance is in a class by itself, but it has some distinct limitations as well.
By Gordon Mah Ung Executive Editor, PCWorld | FEB 10, 2020 3:00 AM PST
https://www.pcworld.com/article/352...can-play-crysis-but-its-not-for-everyone.html

So applications where you have control over the source code - much of it under control by users / implementers, Linux, and Enterprise Windows - where I would hope Microsoft expands / improves high core count performance. Microsoft is the only one that can make those optimizations unlike on Linux, where those kind of optimizations can be found and implemented by everyone, not just Linus.

Linus Torvalds recently made a basic change to the kernel which reduced overhead in some workloads - those most likely found on high core count servers.

Linus Torvalds Just Made A Big Optimization To Help Code Compilation Times On Big CPUs
Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Kernel on 8 February 2020 at 06:38 PM EST. 48 Comments
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Pipe-Parallel-Job-Opt

Rendering is fun

the Worlds FASTEST Desktop CPU for 3D Rendering - Threadripper 3990X
Feb 10, 2020
CG Geek
How fast is the 64-Core Threadripper 3990X at 3D Rendering in Blender!? T


When the work load fits the hardware's capability, the 3990x gets some great scaling results:


Complex Scene's benefit from the 3990x over the 2080ti:

 

Hardware Unboxed weighs in, and has previously answered this question as to their own experience installing and testing dozens of 5700xt / 5700 / etc GPU's as part of their extensive game and application performance testing - they don't see any problems in long term use or short term use, except if they forget to use DDU to clear out previous driver installs (Nvidia and AMD drivers). After doing some polls from their readers this go around, HU gives their summary:

Can We Still Recommend Radeon GPUs? AMD Driver Issues Discussed
Feb 13, 2020
Hardware Unboxed
Can We Still Recommend Radeon GPUs? AMD Driver Issues Discussed


Abdullah Sari 2 hours ago (edited)
"I'm using 19.XX.X drivers without any problems. However, the dreaded black screen comes to haunt me when I install a 20.XX.X driver."

HerebyOrdinary 2 hours ago
"It's kinda interesting how the whole driver issue is flipped on its head when you move over to Linux. The open source Mesa drivers for AMD tend to be really solid while the proprietary Nvidia drivers will sometimes cause serious problems..."

sab188 2 hours ago
"I kept having black screens when I'd game. For me, using the latest update, turning off GPU scaling in display and using standard graphics settings fixed everything for me... I have the Nitro+ though, running on its silent BIOS."

For many it's been a long bug riddled time with Radeon drivers lately. It's very frustrating to watch given so many have no problems, or they are solved simply by using DDU (to remove previous Nvidia drivers) or by doing a clean Adrenaline install.

Some have solved it with BIOS resets (motherboard BIOS, not vBIOS), clearing out RAM timing tweaking.

But there are still some with seemingly incompatible configurations that give up, after many hours of trying.

Frustration like this is typical for most of us at one time or another as part of our work day, it's really not acceptable to deal with it during our fun time.

IDK what's going on but it's time for the AMD Radeon Group to take action to fix these problems before Big Navi comes out.

AdoredTV's has a long list of his own to cover, but he does it in a funny way, complaining but at the same time giving solutions while making the complaining noises.

@17:27, AdoredTV finds a reddit post that says turning off "enhanced sync" worked for him as AdoredTV agree's that work-around if you have a problem was recommended in previous notes.

This one is great (17:51)), he reads the first part of the post, but ignores the 2nd half where the OP came back and Edited his post and says he installed 19.12.1 and has had no further problems (for the last 3 hours)... so perhaps he'll update again later?

It's always annoying when there are driver problems, fortunately it's usually either or AMD / Nvidia, so I can do work around their bugs as needed.

Nvidia has a long history of too many driver problems and lost performance, and it's still happening with Nvidia's latest driver 442.19 losing about 5% of performance in 3dmark tests compared to the previous version.

Driver problems are not going to keep me away from Big Navi, and I doubt it will end up keeping AdoredTV away from Big Navi either. I think AdoredTV's trying to get AMD's attention so he can get free test units.

Still Something Wrong At Radeon
Feb 11, 2020
AdoredTV
Why I can no longer recommend Radeon.


AdoredTV - Still something wrong at Radeon
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f2gth2/adoredtv_still_something_wrong_at_radeon/?sort=new

Jay gets down with the 5700 / 5700XT, with some useful tips...

Every Radeon 5700 owner NEEDS to do this!
Jan 31, 2020
BIOS flashing to unlock performance is nothing new... in fact it was part of the 5600XT launch proving that brands do artificially limit performance to make sure they don't get too close to more expensive video cards... So today I show you just how much FREE performance you can gain!


We performed the 5700XT Washer + Paste mod... did it help?
Feb 10, 2020
JayzTwoCents


And, don't forget these previously posted tips and fixes for RX 5700 / RX 5700XT:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-730#post-10987504

PayOnce4EntireGame 2 points· 1 day ago
" I used DDU and reinstalled the older drivers... 19.10.1. Back when the interface was dope and performance on my 580 was better.

Why AMD, why ruin that sweet, simple interface? :'("

qufhuzedo 15 hours ago
" Use the latest 2019 driver. I have RX580 4GB as well and all the 2020 drivers are a complete sh.tshow with crashes, bugs, high cpu usage, and more bugs."

paulerxx AMD 3600X + 5700XT · 4 days ago
" Grab a 2070 Super and save yourself the headaches a lot of us are dealing with."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ewrz0p/continuing_our_focus_on_delivering_the_best/?sort=new

For now if you need the latest game optimized drivers and can't stand dealing with driver bugs - instead of a 5700XT / 5700 get an Nvidia 2070 Super / 2060 Super.

I'll update here should AMD stabilize their drivers enough release to release to keep new game optimization updates coming.

 

They really need to get their drivers fixed ASAP. I keep seeing almost daily posts about switching from 5700XT to 2060 or 2070 Supers after frustrations with driver issues. It's a shame as the 5700XT is a good card when the drivers work properly and we don't need Nvidia uncontested.

 

Even though I have no system problems, have overclocked nicely to all core 4.4ghz (3700x) and wasn't looking for any more tweaks or tuning right now, while looking at the Hardware Unboxed comments for fixes to help others with 5700xt / 5700 issues - I found this:

Sid 1 hour ago
"I'm trying 20.2.1 as well haven't had any crashes or black screens for the moment.. I used to have some micro stuttering in the division 2 but now i don't anymore.

The only thing i did differently this time was enabling windows ultra performace mode. So i cant say that it was the driver that fixed it.. Maybe try that."

I didn't remember seeing "Ultimate Performance" as a Windows 10 Power Plan option, and sure enough you need to enable it:

C:\ powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61

Power Scheme GUID: 35ad3a28-4412-4348-b060-ce3de5dc6196 (Ultimate Performance)

It came out in 1803, and is still here in 1909:


Here's a quick description:

Windows 10: The Ultimate Performance power policy
https://social.technet.microsoft.co...10-the-ultimate-performance-power-policy.aspx

Add or Remove Ultimate Performance Power Plan in Windows 10
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials...mate-performance-power-plan-windows-10-a.html

Now that I have it enabled, I went into the Advanced settings, and I needed to tweak the usual - disable USB Selective Suspend, set the Sleep => power / sleep buttons to Hibernation, allow sleep in Multimedia settings, and...

Disable Display Sleep after 15 minutes - set it to 0 = Never... so if your "black screen" happen's at exactly 15 minutes after idle on the desktop - it might be the automatic Display Sleep setting in Power Plan. Don't laugh I've run across this complaint before and that was the fix.

IDK if this is really gonna make a difference - and I'm don't feel I am experiencing any of the things it's supposed to fix (Latency / Lag), but WTH I'll give the Windows 10 "Ultimate Performance" Power Plan a shot.

Update: Surprised, that's what I am. Yup, it made a difference - and it spurred me on to look for another add-on (Process Lasso) I haven't used for a long time that also made a little bit more of a difference (Bitsum Power Plan), and between the two I ended up breaking through the barrier in benchmarking I had been stuck at.

The new power plan(s) only gave a 0.1% straight-line improvement in CPU score, but the lower latency from whatever power tweaks are included bumped up my GPU score .5%, punching through to 10,942 Time Spy, where the best I had previously was 10,881.

I know that doesn't sound like much, but when I first starting OC'ing I started under 10,000, so I didn't think I had a chance breaking past 11,000, but now IDK, maybe if I upgrade my cooling I could sustain that 4.5ghz OC and push over the top.

Things do seem snappier, really, but that may just be euphoria over getting through the score barrier I've been stuck at for a while. No, I'm seeing complex web pages with lots of elements filling up much quicker and completing cleanly - not hanging waiting for the straggler objects.

I checked my Ookla throughput and my ping response has never dropped below 11ms, and it's now at 8ms! Must be a coincidence...?

Parkcontrol is a standalone subset of Process Lasso (still might try that again too, been a long time) that has the Bitsum Power Plan, along with an auto-switcher for dropping down to a less power hungry plan at idle - Power Saver is what I have selected.
https://bitsum.com/parkcontrol/

 

I wonder if there is to actually be a 3980x?

 

The amount of people reporting issues with AMD drivers is I think WAY OVERBLOWN.
Sure, some problems exist (I am well aware of that - static noise on Acer PH517-61 coming out of sleep mode I'm looking at you - which AMD still hadn't fixed, but in this instance Acer is also to blame due to them not making an effort into keeping support for the unit alive after 6 months) but likely not to the extent some of these people like to claim (in spite of the static noise issue, the stability, performance. etc. of the drivers [even latest ones prior to the attempted BIOS update killing my mobo] worked just fine - and even before that on the GL702ZC which kept breaking down due to Asus incompetence, AMD drivers worked wonderfully).

A large portion of people are running unknown and very 'mixed' (messy even) configs (with possibly inadequate PSU's), they don't do DDU for driver removal nor do they have latest BIOS, latest Windows updates or chipset updates... in essence, they are ignoring 'common sense' and seem to be experiencing problems mainly due to 'user error' and aren't diligent enough to understand another component could be causing compatibility issues (it will actually be interesting to see if some of these people DO try to replace their GPU's with NV's only to end up with same problems).

Plus, for some people, their Windows reaches a 'mess of a state' at some point they never try to even do a clean Windows install (some people did that and it solved their problems).
For others, we like to keep on top of our OS-es and keep it generally tidy to avoid problems, but even we won't be shy of doing a clean install at some point.

Mind you, I understand that 'doing things right' and exercising 'common sense' can still lead to problems, but doing so MINIMISES the possibility of problems occurring in the first place.

 

AMD: Threadripper 3990X Isn't Better on Windows 10 Enterprise tomshardware.com | Feb 15, 2020

"AMD officially recommends Windows 10 Professional or Linux for the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X. Higher editions/versions of Windows 10 confer no additional performance or compatibility benefits to the processor. We understand that this suggestion has been made in the media, but we believe this to be an error in testing that our team is presently diagnosing.”

 

" AnandTech's recent review of the AMD Threadripper 3990X contained an interesting caveat: The website noted that Windows 10 Enterprise provided more performance than the Windows 10 Pro operating system that AMD recommended for testing. But AMD has told us that this isn't the case."

"AMD officially recommends Windows 10 Professional or Linux for the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X. Higher editions/versions of Windows 10 confer no additional performance or compatibility benefits to the processor [Build version does matter though, see below]. We understand that this suggestion has been made in the media, but we believe this to be an error in testing that our team is presently diagnosing.
...
AMD recommended testing with Windows 10 Pro OS build 18362.592 (or greater) due to unspecified optimizations that ensured maximum performance. ”

"AnandTech's purportedly incorrect test results could simply boil down to NUMA configurations of Windows versioning: AMD recommended testing with Windows 10 Pro OS build 18362.592 (or greater) due to unspecified optimizations that ensured maximum performance"

...The rest of the details in the article...

So it looks like it comes down to the specific build version being the difference according to AMD.

If AnandTech's results represented what they measured, AnandTech's results were correct as they saw and reported them.

What was "wrong" according to AMD was AnandTech attributing the difference to Windows Enterprise ability to represent all 64c/128t together rather than separated by 2 NUMA groups.

Whereas in previous Windows 10 testing that would be a problem(?), this time it's not(?) as long as your build is updated far enough. Instead the difference could have been the Build version of the Windows Pro testing. And, it could be a sum total of other differences as well including other Windows Enterprise advantages in their configuration(?):

"It's possible that testing with an older version of Windows than the recommended distribution led to the performance gains AnandTech recorded, but there is currently no visibility into what led to the issue. It remains possible that there are a few scattered advantages for using the Enterprise version of Windows instead of the Pro, but AMD said that its testing, like ours, didn't find any meaningful performance improvements that would merit a step up to the Enterprise or Workstation versions of Windows 10. "

The bottom line is great news, we don't need Windows Enterprise to get the best performance out of the 3990x, but I would assume many (most?) 3990x corporate purchases will end up on a site license for Windows Enterprise anyway.

Let's see what Anandtech responds with...[I'll update later]

 

More has to be fixed from their QC and test department.


Asus blames AMD for overheating ROG Strix RX 5700 Series cards notebookcheck.com | Today

In an unusual move, Asus shifted blame for its overheating ROG STRIX 5700 series graphics cards to AMD, claiming the GPU maker's mounting pressure guidelines delivered inadequate mounting force.

Source(s)
Asus

 

As to this, I'm betting Asus is just trying to save face. They should have found ways to properly cool it in the design phase and materials selection. This is trying to pass the Buck when other companies didn't have this issue.

 

This is odd to me as well.
I mean, Asus is the one making third party designs of the GPU's... and AMD's guidelines being one thing, shouldn't OEM's do their own testing to see what actually works for them?
It would be rather dumb to start producing a product that wasn't properly tested when you designed it's cooling.
AMD merely supplied the chips, did they not?
Asus and other OEM's incorporate the cooling, etc.

So, yeah, it DOES seem like Asus is trying to save face.

This also kinda goes to show that some OEM's apparently don't do independent testing to optimise the GPU's from the get go (such as modifying the voltages correctly to drop power draw on stock, etc.).

 

Asus has left reality at this point. Teardowns of their 5700xt cards - one I was interested in the Strix 3-fan, shows no connection between the heatplate and the VRAM memory - Asus left too much unconnected / cooled and their memory temps were the highest of all the AIB cards.

None of the other AIB cards were as bad, and most had full coverage of the memory.

You can't have mounting force if there is no coverage of the parts, and that part is on common sense, and Asus.

The GPU cooling recommendations from AMD were based on using the solid substrate carbon pad - if you remove the pad and substitute paste that reduces the height of the GPU contact so you need to account for that difference. That's the washer fix as documented by many reviews where they replaced the pad with paste - like when putting on water coolers.

 

This would be a repeat of the DCII edition of the GTX580. No vram connections, no vram mini heatsinks, high memory temps and above average memory fail rate.

 

It boggles the mind how Asus managed to flub up like that again...

And then to try to blame it on AMD, sheesh!!

Here's Hardware Unboxed's Asus ROG Strix 5700xt critique I was referring to in my other post - this one covers the mounting pressure caused by poor design by Asus:

Asus Strix Fix, Another Defective Radeon RX 5700 XT
Jan 9, 2020
Hardware Unboxed


kaizer5lock 1 month ago
Apple: "You're holding it wrong"
ASUS: "You're mounting it wrong"

games geek 1 month ago
"I had the strix version and was waiting for the bios fix since release but the card was running very hot and I couldn't take it any longer so I sold it and got the gaming x model from msi, Happy that I did considering what was mentioned in this video. I didn't spend enough time with the card to notice the heatsink issue but I can assure you that mine was definitely affected."

Here's a short (15 sec) video showing the Asus Strix 5700xt independent movement of the layers even though it's tightened down, amazing:

Asus rog strix rx 5700 xt bolts to long and not holding down heat sync
Dec 30, 2019
Vernon Ray
Asus rog strix rx 5700 xt bolts to long and not holding down heat sync and causing vram to over heat and reboot pc


Comprehensive coverage of all the known issues:

Why you should not buy a Strix 5700 XT just yet. Please help Asus South Africa and Evetech
Jan 10, 2020
Something Amazing
This week we take a look at the small but massive manufacturing flaw in the Strix 5700 XT that have led to poor cooling and performance of these cards. Thanks to Hardware Unboxed for confirming our and many others suspicions as to what the actual problem was.

 

@hmscott Glad I decided to choose the Sapphire Nitro+ 5700 XT on my new build I did buy an Asus motherboard tho. It was too sexy not too; it has the same finish as my previous Rampage III Black Edition. It's the Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi.

 

The Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi and Sapphire Nitro+ 5700 XT are great choices

Hardware Unboxed covers the situation...

Asus Officially Fixes The 5700 XT Strix, But Blames AMD For Their Mistake
Feb 20, 2020
Hardware Unboxed


Pinned by Hardware Unboxed
Hardware Unboxed 1 hour ago
" Asus has already changed the wording of their article and removed the graph: https://rog.asus.com/articles/gamin...g-strix-radeon-rx-5700-series-graphics-cards/"

 

How are drivers working for you btw?
Any issues?

@hmscott

Just out of curiosity, how are the Palit Navi GPU's in regards to brand, cooling etc?

 

No issues, gamed for hours. I did manage to force a blank screen event, by alt-tabbing until it happened. Since the game was still running perfectly with no driver reset, I suspect the DWM borked instead of a driver.

Anyhoo, running 12.2.1, I disabled ULPS since it's a known issue since early GCN days that having it enabled causes power saving options to be too aggressive. Probably tied to the issue of people complaining about underclocking in old games. You can easily disable this using Afterburner.

@Deks

 

I don't see Palit's out here any more... generally, before I stopped seeing them they were high end - more expensive - and well regarded.

As we've seen with Asus Strix / TUF and MSI Evoke with the 5700XT even "good" brands can screw up, so you'll want to find someone that has a Palit Navi GPU and get their direct experience with current product.

 

I was asking about Palit because that's the brand that PC Specialist seems to be using here in UK to assemble custom destkop PC's.
Thinking of getting a desktop right now until Zen 2 mobile comes out as a stopgap measure so I can continue doing my course without interruptions (the laptop I have right now is a bit of a slowpoke and hits certain limits both thermal and performance wise when it comes to 3D - just the other day the CPU reached 'critical' thermal juncture and shut down the machine as I was maxing it out consistently in a warm space with 3ds Max - the price of putting a 45W CPU into a Dell meant for 35W TDP I suppose - sigh - or I might change the thermal paste - a better application might solve the problem).

I'd build my own desktop, but its been ages since I assembled one, and things have changed in the interim (with more things to keep in mind for assembly).
Also, to be honest, the price differential between the PC specialist one and personally assembled one isn't very large from what I calculated.

We'll see what happens.
I'd prefer a Zen 2 laptop, but not gonna get Asus ones as the brand is dead to me for now due to bad experience and overpricing.

Great to confirm what I already suspected.
Thanks for that.

 

Picked up another nugget of info from Reddit that disabling ULPS also disables AMD ZeroCore, which is a extreme power saving event that also unpowers some of the output controllers. This smells like the black screen culprit, that these outputs getting turned off when they shouldn't.

 

People report it's a placebo effect - while others say it made their cards stable - or more stable...maybe not the solution after all?

ULPS: How to disable
Discussion created by kingfish on May 8, 2014
https://community.amd.com/thread/176003

A Tale of Radeon Adrenalin 2020 (Ver. 20.2.1 Optional), ULPS, and how I solved the black screen and crashing issues on the latest drivers for my RX 5700xt

Posted by u/ErikJay226 1 day ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/f6ccqo/a_tale_of_radeon_adrenalin_2020_ver_2021_optional/

I0000days 1 day ago
"What a bunch of bull. I have disabled UPLS and many other registry settings and compared them side by side and concluded they're all placebo fixes."

St0RM53 1 day ago
"I have ULPS enabled in all drivers since October. Not a single crash for me. I'm starting to believe it is GPU card specific. I run a Msi 5700XT gaming x as well as my brother. Never heard a black screen crash on these ones."

More failures than successes reported in that thread...

 

Which GPU are you going to get in the build? I notice on the Palit site there are no 5700xt's or other AMD GPU's

The 2070 Super seems the best balance of cost vs performance on the green side. I got a really cheap Holiday special on a 3700x + 2070 Super for $1099, the 5700xt build was $1299 and the 5700xt was the blower model.

I had already planned out a build with an Asus Strix 5700xt because the Sapphires either weren't available or were too expensive, while the Strix was available to me locally. My build was going to cost $1500+.

Makes it tough to justify building my own when I can get it all pre-built for hundreds less with a warranty.

I had been watching for Sapphire 5700xt's to come back in stock around here, now I'm waiting for the AMD driver issues to mellow out, and I might have to wait until Big Navi rolls around.

 

2 weeks in on the 3990x and no stock shortages. It seems it is just a bit too high a price for most enthusiasts, as that was anticipated/expected. While agreed it blows everything else out of the water just about no one needs that kind of power. 3960x is hard to come by so that may be the DIY favorite for enthusiasts but the 3970x looks tempting as it can be found at a discount.

 

The desktop in my signature was a pre-built from MicroCenter's in-house PowerSpec brand. It was advertised as being open box, though when I got it home there was nothing to indicate it had been in a customer's hands. Heck, even the plastic film protecting the tempered glass side panel on the case was still in tact. Despite it using one of the cheapest Z390 boards on the market, the total cost of the components alone was greater than what I ended up paying for the completed machine, even after figuring in sales tax. Oddly, it didn't have a GPU out of the box, but it was easy enough to transfer the 2070 from the rig it was replacing. While it wasn't entirely necessary, I did change out the power supply from the stock low-end Cooler Master 600W to an EVGA 850 G2 80-Plus Gold to give more headroom for future upgrades.

The big OEMs have also been stepping up their games with gaming pre-builts. HP in particular has some Omen desktop configurations that are not outrageously priced. Pick one up on sale, and it's an even better deal. I'm finding it harder and harder to go back to the old "built it yourself" chestnut these days.

 

Most enthusiasts will probably stick to 32c/64th TR's for now.
The ones likely to go for 3990x are VFX studios and companies in general - as this CPU is really aimed towards those.

The build I've been considering would have Gigabyte Aorus lite B450 with 3990x and RX 5700, but for the same cost of them having to install their RX 5700, I can get Sapphire RX 5700 + 16GB of 3600MhZ C16 RAM off Amazon (for the same price of them just installing their RX 5700) and install them myself (I'd install my own OS on it of course).

That's pretty much it, along with a 2k Freesync monitor (31.5" AOC) and some other bits.
Total price would come to £1580 (roughly).
The higher price is due to 3990x (obviously)... I could drop it to say 3700x (and that would drop the price by about £170), but was considering the 12c because of my productivity requirements such as 3d Studio Max, upcoming Blender, etc.).

3700x would probably be enough for now and then later on I could just stick Zen 3 12c or 16c into it (though perhaps I should consider X570 for that?).

 

Agreed, I can say before the killing of x399 I knew of the $4,000 price point and the fanboy in me was looing toward it and a TRX80 just to have the ultimate but AMD killed that in me. Not saying a 39xx is not in my future just no hurry now.

 

Heh... might be better to wait for Zen 3 in that case... would provide a better IPC increase (along with a small bump up in clocks).
Though with Zen 3 being the 'cut-off point' of AM4... dunno if it might be worthwhile to wait for it or just jump to Zen 4 and AM5?

 

How exactly do you intend to put Threadripper onto a B450 motherboard?

 

Yup, that's what I decided, get something now - the 3700x - and wait on the rest of the AMD CPU's to release. I would have gone with the 3900x if it was available, but those 3900x configurations had already sold out (holiday), and even so I got that great price on the 3700x while the 3900x builds sold at full MSRP.

I think you meant a 3900x and not a 3990x, as a 3990x needs a sTRX40 socket motherboard.

Starting with a B450 is what I did as well. As I didn't want to invest a bunch of $ into a motherboard and build without knowing which CPU I was going to end up with.

Also, you might try a larger builder that has better discounts. I couldn't have swapped in a better card for less or even the same - and there wasn't that option with a pre-built at retail. When I went to their site to match a custom build - even with the holiday discounts - it was much higher, like you are seeing. See if you can find a 3700x + 5700 prebuilt from them or another builder for less at a retail outlet.

I would imagine it will be easier to get service and support on warranty from a complete build including all the parts put in by them instead of a partial build where you'd have to work on the warranty support for your contributed parts separately.

The 3950x is supposed to work in this B450 motherboard - at least there is a BIOS update that includes support for this B450, but I don't think that's a good idea. I'd get the Aorus Master or a 2nd generation x570 as they come out, like the MSI x570 Unify and replace the motherboard before upgrading to a 3950x . MSI made a lot of improvements based on their mistakes on the first line generation x570, and the Unify is supposed to be very good now.

Based on performance, I'm not feeling the need to upgrade though, so be aware that once you get the 3700x you may find that is enough. I did get a good sample that I run at 4.4ghz all core daily driver, and that helps keep me happy.

I ended up upgrading to 2x32GB @ 3200mhz, and adding a M.2 Gen 4 MP-600 2TB, and a 6GB WD Black drive, and it's enough for now.

This $1100 build may carry me through Zen 3 and the 4000 series CPU's if they are B450 compatible, and less power hungry than the 3900x / 3950x.

 

Whoops. I meant the 3900x.

Problem is that most builder shops here in UK don't seem to offer any discounts and are otherwise quite expensive.
But yes, I meant B450 and 3900x or 3700x.

When I helped a friend of mine pick an all AMD config from PC specialist, I asked them to make sure they upgrade the BIOS to the latest version and they assured me they always do this and test to see it works properly.

 

Are there pre-built systems that get sold off in large "appliance" stores or "Audio-Visual" shops, like here in the US - BestBuy or Microcenter.

Microcenter has all the parts to build your own computer, and even BestBuy has many upgrade components, but both also sell pre-built computers - turn-key boxed desktop computers with keyboard / mouse already configured and ready to go.

If you can find one you like with the components you are either looking for or "ok with", then you can save $.

Those computers usually are offered at less than the same "custom" configuration using the same components in the pre-built boxed computers. The same companies that do custom builds with online configuration often also make pre-built's desktops sold through retail shops.

The discounts come when the retailer runs their own discounted sales, like during the holiday season or other holidays year round. Then the pre-built boxed computer is sold and discounted like any other item in the store.

Even now a sale is going on and your desired configuration is discounted $150:

Your price for this item is $1,149.99 Save $150 Was $1,299.99

CyberPowerPC - Gaming Desktop - AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - 16GB Memory - AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT - 2TB HDD + 240GB SSD - Black
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberp...b-hdd-240gb-ssd-black/6362428.p?skuId=6362428

That 5700xt configuration price is now the same as the 5700 configuration:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberp...b-hdd-240gb-ssd-black/6362433.p?skuId=6362433

Not a bad price, compared against the similarly configured custom price at Cyberpowerpc.com, it's likely cheaper at Bestbuy especially with the store discount.

As long as you can live with the budget retail build - uses a 5700xt blower model - easy to fix these days with the paste, thermal pad, and washer mods, and a budget B450 (Asrock or Gigbyte) it's a great deal.

It's even got RGB

These retailers usually have easy return policies - keep all the packaging and your receipt and for 30 days you can "evaluate" the computer and decide if you want to keep it. If simple upgrades are all you want to do as you approach 30 days you could save a bunch of $ and keep it.

You can also keep checking the price from that retailer and other competitors they price match, if the retailer or competitor drops the price again you can go in and get refunded $ back to you during the first 30 to 90 days (Costco). I've done that a number of times. The purchase keeps getting better and better over time that way.

There are lots of positive reviews, and there are negative ones, be sure you check it out 100% during the first week of ownership so if there is a problem you can swap it for another one right away.

The custom builder is also having a sale, but it's not quite as discounted as at Bestbuy, and the BestBuy configurations are "unique" to Bestbuy, but these are similarly configured:
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/VR-Ready-Deal-RX-5700-XT
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Gaming-Instant-Ship-GM-9915

The only problem with the custom build is I keep adding more expensive components, when I am just as happy now with a lessor pre-built configuration and probably saved over $1000 from what I would have spent on a custom build.
https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/category/gaming-pcs/amd-ryzen-gaming-pcs/

There's also a likewise configured 3700x + 2070 Super if you don't want a blower 5700xt or want to avoid the driver problems, but it's not discounted right now, it's $1349:

CyberPowerPC - Gaming Desktop - AMD Ryzen 7 3700X - 16GB - GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER - 2TB HDD + 240GB SSD - White
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberp...b-hdd-240gb-ssd-white/6362429.p?skuId=6362429

I posted the details not because you might order from them, but to elaborate on what I meant about pre-built vs custom build units, and how you might find a good price on a pre-built in your region of the world - if they exist?

 

Well, pre-build systems do exist in UK, and online retailers similar to PC-Specialist such as E-buyer and SCAN exist, but they don't seem to have actual stores like Microcenter in USA (the closest that exists here to that would be PC--World and they seem to mostly have NV/Intel and Ryzen/NV combos... and they also sell individual parts, but PC-World doesn't seem to have any of the Navi GPU's (they only have Polaris, not even Vega).
No, for stuff like this, I seem to be limited to online retailers (which do not appear to have any discounts for the time being).

However, you also need to bear in mind that my build is maybe more expensive because I'm also getting a monitor along with kb and mouse... so basically, I'm getting EVERYTHING (not just the tower).
Most builds don't include monitors in their price tag (which increases the price by about £200 - that is if I go with cheapest 2k Freesync one (and actually, the option at PC-Specialist is a more affordable one).
I could drop the price by £100 if I go for 1080p monitor, but would there be a point in getting 1080p monitor in a day and age when 2k is more common and the hw I'm eyeing is more than able to run that?

Getting an entire system from PC-Specialist would be better due to customer support, so I was thinking of going down that route and 3700x for now along with Gigabyte B450 Aorus Elite (Gigabyte seems like a respectable/good brand for mobos, and it shouldn't be an issue). A B450 should get Zen 3 support for say an equivalent to 3900x and 3950x.
The only 'sacrifice' is the PCI-e 4.0 in B450, but to be honest, I'm not sure if the X570 is worth it and whether hw available now and during Zen 3 would benefit from PCI-e 4 in a significant capacity (even M.2 SSD speeds available now won't saturate anything (and they're at round 2000 MB/s which is more than enough), and I don't think GPU's will either (but we'll see).

So, the Gigabyte B450 Aorus Elite, Ryzen 3700x (with Cooler Master Liquid Lite 240), 32GB 3200MhZ RAM, 3TB HDD (I have my own SSD and Windows OS), RX 5700, 650W PSU 80 Plus, AOC 31" 2k Freesync monitor, Cooler Master Devestator 3 KB and Mouse, Creative speakers with subwoofer and MX-4 thermal paste for CPU (PC specialist option - but I could ask them if they could use my GC Gelid Extreme if I send it to them) = £1488

If I opt for 64GB RAM, the price goes up to £1630 (same if I get lower amount of RAM and get the extra RAM myself from Amazon). Not sure the difference is worth it for now as 32GB should be more than enough even for content creation and (more importantly) my college work. I can always upgrade later to more RAM and say Zen 3 CPU.

That's without an OS.

The difference between B450 and X570 isn't huge (£63 to be exact), but it DOES make a difference.
If you add both the X570 mobo and double the RAM, that increases to over £200 difference (which seems a bit much right now).

Is the hypothetical config acceptable?

 

As a 3700x build it all looks great as is.

The x570 if you select carefully will better handle the 3950x upgrade - check out the extensive Hardware Unboxed motherboard tests, but I decided to wait for newer motherboards as I'm not needing the 3950x for VM's now in this build.

PCIE 4.0 will gradually become more beneficial, right now the SSD's for it aren't running at full speed of the Gen4 bus @ 5GB/sec vs potential max of 9GB/sec(?). The MP-600 Gen4 2TB maxes out the B450 PCIE 3.0 NVME at 3.4GB+/sec R/W, so even if it's not on a Gen4 MB yet it's still tops on the Gen3 B450.

If I decide to upgrade to 3950x I'm pretty sure I'd upgrade the MB and power supply (650w), and then it's best to start a new build with a x570 and preserve the pre-built / warranty for someone else. 2 computers are better than 1 anyway.

Spoiler: A little OT, I'll hide it for your eye's only...

I'd go with air cooling for longevity - like a Noctua D15 chromax.black or the traditional D15 "brown" - 2 fan would be enough for the 3700x, maybe add a 3rd fan for the 3950x upgrade for fun. Both of those Noctua units would also keep a 3950x cool. Others have tested the Noctua 12s, but that's a little light on thermal capacity for me. Case selection will be a consideration, make sure you have 160mm from motherboard to door, with good clearance... I've run them very close to the side wall and the builds are still running fine years later.

If you want to eventually upgrade to a 3950x I'd up the power supply to 750w / 800w / 850w depending on what kind of price you can get. I'd prefer a Titanium 80 rating for clean steady power so I'd fit my price limit to the market price for that power range market at the time.

Not familiar with that AOC monitor. Is this it?:

AOC Q3279VWFD8 31.5" QHD 2560x1440 Monitor, 10-Bit IPS Panel, 4ms, 75Hz, Freesync, DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI-D/VGA, Flickerfree
https://www.amazon.com/AOC-Q3279VWFD8-2560x1440-DisplayPort-Flickerfree/dp/B07CG41Y8Z

Glad to see it's IPS, the 4k VA panels 'sparkle" and makes them hard to use for text - for my eyes, but IPS when attached evenly in the frame is awesome. 75hz is as fast as needed, 144hz is nice but at 1440p it's tougher to drive all games that fast. Please let us know how it works out

I'm still good with 1080p 27", I've been using it for years, but I had my eye on a LG $499 monitor that was constantly out of stock leading up to the holiday season, but Costco had a Xmas special on a 1080p version of that same Nano 1ms panel, which dropped as low as $179! so I got a great deal on it. I really am fine at 1080p. It takes less ummph to drive it, letting the CPU / GPU run cooler, letting the fans run slower, so to me it's a win all around. Here it is at current price down from $:

LG 27GL63T Ultragear 27" Class FHD IPS G-Sync Compatible Gaming Monitor
https://www.costco.com/lg-ultragear...patible-gaming-monitor.product.100512138.html

Amazon doesn't have it new, only renewed:
https://www.amazon.com/LG-27GL63T-Ultragear-Compatible-Monitor/dp/B08288169G/

If I had seen that AOC 32" I probably would have gotten it. I wanted a 32" or larger 1440p monitor, but nothing was priced well enough or actually in stock during the holiday while I was looking.

You didn't list which HDD make you are looking at. I prefer WD Black, the 4GB or 6GB. The 6GB is running at 250MB/sec which is fine even for game installs, no lag or snag in games for me. I've had too many Seagates fail to use one of those again. Hitachi's were my favorite - built on IBM's HDD business, and are now owned by and as of 2018 integrated into the WD lineup. WD is a little more expensive than Seagate, but a dead drive costs a lot more overall when that happens so for me I'm sticking with WD.

But, to be fair, I've had failures of Hitachi, Fujitsu, Seagate, and 1 WD drive - but it was 10 years old by then and to be fair it's still working I just resized it to skip over the dead zone and it's still running as a spare drive in a system. They can all fail, but overall I still prefer the speed of the WD drives.

Good luck and please let us know what you end up getting and how you like it

 

The reason I picked Cooler MasterLiquid Lite 240 is because it appears to be a budget water cooling that's highly effective (and seems more than suitable for both 3700x and potential Zen 3 equivalent of 3950x).
Wouldn't a water cooling unit like that one be far more suitable for longevity purposes and possible upgrades?
Noctua isn't bad, but PC-Specialist doesn't have the dual-fan version, and I'm kinda partial to water cooling in a destkop.

I've been looking at the reviews online to see how Gigabyte Aorus Elite B450 handles 3950x for a potential upgrade equivalent with Zen 3, and it does just fine performance-wise (same as X570 as far as I can tell).
So, for Zen 3 equivalent to 3950x at same TDP, I think the mobo would be able to handle it (presuming there's a BIOS update).

Also, putting a Corsair 750W TXm series Semi-Modular 80 Plus Ultra is only £9 more expensive than 650W, so, not a big deal, but it is my impression that 650W of same brand and type would be more than enough for something like 3950x and RX 5700. After all, I'm not planning on overclocking anything (in fact, I'd probably experiment with undervolting the 5700), and as far as I know, total board power for 5700 is 185W (a nice undervolt would probably bring it down to 145W or less with no performance loss), whereas the 3950X TDP is at 105W (though it peaks at 144W for all 16 cores), so a hypothetical 3950x and 5700 = 329W (maximum loading for both GPU and CPU) with no undervolts or eco modes running - all other components in the system are relative 'peanuts' in regards to power consumption.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even a 550W quality PSU should be able to handle that (nevermind the 650w I originally picked).

You are correct on the screen. It is the AOC Q3279VWFD8 31.5" QHD 2560x1440 Monitor

PC-Specialist lists 4TB Seagate Barracuda SATA III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 5400RPM, 256MB cache - and correction, with that one (and 650W PSU), the total price of the system is £1512

Seagate Barracuda's seem to be of good quality, more than adequate for storage and saving productivity projects (I'd probably have most games installed on my SSD anyway).

 

Lot's of info for you, but it's a bit OT for the thread - not much Ryzen talk

Spoiler: For Deks...

I've posted a few times how air-cooling actually works as well or better than water cooling within a degree or two, air cooling is less expensive and less problematic short and long term, the Fans+Pump make more noise at the higher load end than the quiet Noctua or BeQuiet! fans, and the power draw is much higher for the water-cooler with more fans+pump:

At the bottom of this post are links to several video's about how air is better than water, with the Noctua 12s beating / matching the 240mm/280mm cooler, and the D15 matches within a couple of degree's the 360mm, yes really (see link to post below).
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-729#post-10985708

I've still got Noctua D14's running 7+ years later - same fans - and when people pull apart the CLC's that are a couple of years old they have gunk blocking the water block on the CPU / GPU.

If you don't mind spending $100-$200 every few years to replace the CLC to keep the same cooling performance, then the water coolers can look cool... but they don't cool any better than air.

BeQuiet has a nice cooler too, but it doesn't cool quite as well as the Noctua D15, and you can get the D15 classic for $89, and $99 for the chomax.black edition:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-696#post-10966530

The Best CPU Cooler Under $100: NH-D15 vs. Dark Rock Pro 4 vs. PF240 vs. Liquid Freezer II 280

It depends on the motherboard VRM's, and the 3950x / 3900x are going to be a much higher load than the 3700x - especially if you are going to OC.

I'm going to go to a x570 if I go the 3950x route, but you can certainly try the B450. Maybe see if anyone has used that particular motherboard with the 3950x and how it worked - could they OC? I've looked through pcpartspicker and haven't seen many yet - one last time I looked.

When I buy amplifiers or Power Supplies I try to have double the capacity to handle transients, and so far my power supplies (and amplifiers) have lasted a long long time. Last I used were 750w and 1000w. I've had failures at the lower ratings, but that's many years ago.

Looks like a good buy, please let us know how it looks when you get it.

Good luck with the Seagates, I tried to warn you based on my personal experience, here's another persons experience:

Are Seagate hard drives bad?
11 Answers
Jared Palmer, Data Recovery Engineer at Data Medics (2011-present)
Answered Mar 26 2018 · Author has 164 answers and 596.6k answer views
Working in professional data recovery I see thousands of drives that have failed. Seagate has far and away the absolute highest failure rate of any brand. You may notice another answer on here references Backblaze’s statistics and erroneously concluded they have a “lower failure rate” however, they must have been reading the chart upside down. Backblaze statistics shows that Seagate drives fail 3 to 4 times more often than some others with certain models failing around 10x more often.

One particular model of Seagate drive (ST3000DM001) has such a high failure rate that Seagate is facing a class action lawsuit from all the customers. Accd to Backblaze nearly 40% of that model failed in just a few years.

Working in data recovery, I can say with certainty that these arent just skewed statistics. We are seeing the exact same thing with how many are coming in needing recovery. Talking with owners of other labs, they report the same thing as well.

Don't get me wrong, years ago it was a different story. Back in the 40Gb HDD days I would have highly recommended Seagate. But today they are build at bottom of the barrel quality. So in my honest and professional opinion, Seagate hard drives are very bad today."
11.1k views · View 39 Upvoters
https://www.quora.com/Are-Seagate-hard-drives-bad

But, any disk can fail, it's just that you try to buy the brand and model with good reliability statistics. And, it looks like Backblaze published statistics don't match our real world experiences, maybe they missed some large piles of bad drives in their accounting?

Reliability changes over time, and you can have perfectly good drives from the same brand / model that have high failure rates, it's all down to luck of the draw.

I had 2 600GB drives from Hitachi that were known to fail so I bought 5 year extended warranty - they ran for 10 years +, I finally put them in friends machines and they probably junked those machines with the drives still good to go into another machine.

Please let us know how those Seagate drives perform over the next few years.

Is this the 4TB drive you are mention above?

" St4000dm005 failure rate
For example, the Seagate 4 TB drive, model ST4000DM005, has a annualized failure rate of 29.08%, but that is based on only 1,255 drive days and 1 (one) drive failure. AFR stands for Annualized Failure Rate, which is the projected failure rate for a year based on the data from this quarter only.Feb 1, 2018"

James G. 1.0 out of 5 stars
Right on Schedule, it FAILS after the warranty expires
Reviewed in the United States on February 2, 2020
Verified Purchase
" Seagate has become known as the bottom of the barrel hard drive. I bought 3 separate models in 2017...all 3 have failed.

i have 35 shucked WD My Books (same company, higher standards of production) and not one has failed.

You can generally judge a drive by its warranty....short warranty equals short life. While the My Books generally have a 3 year warranty, the drives inside are 5 years."
https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

Just looked up that Seagate drive the Data Recovery Specialist called out as particular failure prone, it's a 3TB Seagate... is this the 3TB drive you were listing previously: ST3000DM001 ?
https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Desktop-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST3000DM001/dp/B005T3GRLY

Jeff P 1.0 out of 5 stars
know what youre getting
Reviewed in the United States on September 28, 2018
Size: 3TB Verified Purchase
i have purchased around 40 of these drives over the last 6-8 years or so for different setups. they are decent drives... operate well, fairly quick for spinning platter drives. however - they are not the most stable.

in my recent order of 4 drives to fill out a raid array, 1 was completely DOA.

the drives ive purchased over the last 2 years... about 80% of them are still running.

so... its a cheap drive... if you get a good one, it should be ok for several years. if not, it will either be dead on arrival, or within a year.

UPDATE: so the last one i installed started having issues. i checked the smart status on the drive, and it showed THOUSANDS of hours of powered on - this is obviously either flat out used, or refurb being sold as new. that made me stop and check the others - they are questionable, but nowhere near this bad."
https://www.amazon.com/product-revi...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar

Western Digital or HGST are good drives, if they offer them I'd suggest getting those instead of the Seagate option. WD Black is the fastest, and for an HDD 250MB/sec is useable for game installs.

I used to recommend Seagates many years ago, but for the longest time Seagate has been consistently poor in reliability, I won't touch them for work projects, and not for myself either.

On top of all of that, WD Black High Capacity drives are ending production... if you go to their store online they are out of stock on pretty much all the high capacity drives large cache sized drives:
https://shop.westerndigital.com/products/internal-drives/wd-black-desktop-sata-hdd#WD5003AZEX

There seems to be some stock still in retail / online for WD Black, $195 for the 4TB and $250 for the 6TB, and try to get the 256MB cache over the 128MB cache models. I'd move quickly to score what you need before they are all gone.

HGST branded drives might be the best shot moving forward, but I have heard there are new WD high capacity drives on the way...

Update: If you want the highest cooling, barring cost - noise - power draw - compatibility (cases) and will run the fans at a much higher than comfortable speed - the Kraken x72 looks good:

Air Cooling vs. Liquid Cooling: The Ultimate Showdown (feat. Noctua NH-D15 vs. NZXT Kraken X72


Update: If you want an air cooler even more quiet than the Noctua D15 (it's really quiet already) the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 might be of interest. It's a few degrees less efficient than the D15, but runs even quieter:

Can this ENORMOUS cooler run PASSIVELY?
Bitwit
1.74M subscribers
This is a review of the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, including a little experiment to see if the newly designed dual heatsink can "handle the heat" of fanless operation.

 

Seems a little leak regarding a 5950 XT card courtesy of Hynix:

EDIT: fake specs, bogus image. removed.

 

That's right out there in the fantasy world of "OMG, YES!!"

Too good to be true... Check.
Amazing yet believable... Check.
Random Rumor.... Check.

If only...it wasn't just a rumor.

 

I'm thinking it's an investor hype post, but the specs really aren't too unrealistic, except maybe the memory portion. But who knows.

 

I'm hoping it's real of course, but I won't be disappointed if it's a little less powerful. As long as AMD comes out with their first real contender in years, and that will be enough top end.

The 5700xt / 2070 Super performance really is enough for 1080p/1440p, and the 2080 Super is only a bit faster but too much money @ $750!!, which used to be the top end pricing.

Now with the 2080ti @ $1200 the pricing for the next generations 3080ti and whatever AMD comes out with likely going to hit $1500.

It would be great if AMD can keep the pricing back to the $750 and under range - heck even $1000 and under.

That would clip Nvidia's wings at the same time as allow AMD to sell a bunch of GPU's.

I'm hoping AMD is well on the way to fixing those last driver bugs before the big Navi release(s). Otherwise there might be a lot more of the "wait and see" going on, including me.

 

We do know that AMD's MI100 is basically 2x MI60's connected together through the Infinity Fabric.
Its lower clocked though (not by too much, but just enough to drop the TDP to 200W).

This indicates they were able to overcome the inifnity fabric issue for GPU's in server space... but I think there's still an issue with how the IF connected GPU's handle pixels or something to that effect in commercial software.

Plus, we don't know if the MI100 will use enhanced Vega cores (like the Zen 2 mobile Vega).
If it does, it probably has the potential to be at least 30-40% faster compared to the stock clocks version with much higher TDP.

Anyway, my point is that AMD mentioned they will integrate the said Vega core enhancements (from zen 2 Vega) in future Navi... so its possible that 'big Navi' (if it exists) could have quite potent cores.
Then there's also the fact that big navi will be made on 7nm+ (which has higher density and affords slightly greater clocks compared to 7nm).

The potential to make 'big navi' much faster is there. now it remains to be seen HOW they go about it.