AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Dell already announced that they will make an all AMD laptop using 4000H series and Navi GPUs (5600m and 5700m were mentioned at first, but now only 5600m is mentioned).

The designated laptop is g5 special edition which was due to be available in late April/early may... But looks like it's now been slated for Q2 this year.
Granted the second quarter starts in May but we have no definitive release day yet

 

What performance is expected from that Navi gpu?

 

Well, it looks like all the specs of this GPU are largely identical to the desktop 5600 XT, except it has slightly lower clocks (about 100MhZ lower on the core boost, and unknown clocks on memory - right now Notebookcheck reports 12000 MhZ on VRAM for both 5600M and 5700M - this could be 'effective' speed).
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-5600M-GPU.449471.0.html

5600M is stated by notebookcheck that it 'starts' at 60W TDP (for MaxQ like performance probably) - but I think it would be closer to 85W to 100W maybe given that 5500M is already slated at 85W TDP (although who knows... 5600M was released much later than 5500M so AMD may have optimised efficiency further).

5700M also appears to be largely the same as desktop 5700, except with (again) slightly lower clocks (the odd thing here is that the core clock boost is only 5MhZ lower than on the desktop version), whereas the VRAM is (again) rated at 12000 MhZ (this could be 'effective' again).

5700M is stated by notebookcheck that its rated at 120W TDP.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-RX-5700M-Mobile-GPU.439543.0.html

No mention of base clocks for either 5600M or 5700M (but I suspect that they would be roughly similar to the boost clocks - about 100MhZ lower... possibly a bit more).

I suspect these mobile chips could largely retain most of the performance from their desktop counterparts with a slight underclock.
From what I could tell, the 5700XT can be easily underclocked by about 150MhZ on the core and undervolted to 1V (from 1.2) without losing any performance and increasing efficiency.

250MhZ drop in clocks and UV-ing to 890mV seems to drop performance by about 5% while dropping temps on the GPU by 9 deg C, and 20 degrees C on T Junction.

More info here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/testing-undervolting-with-my-5700xt.258313/

So, if the mobile chips have identical hw to their desktop counterparts, with the only major difference being in clocks, its possible the mobile chips will still be within 10% performance (I'm saying 10% because the voltages on the mobile chips might be higher on lower clocks as OEM's only tend to only underclock these chips and not really optimise the voltages for those frequencies).

 

Yes. Most of us are still stretching our neck out to look out for official "available to order" listing of the announced model in DELL's webpages around the world, on the G5.
But if i'm not mis-interpreting the NotebookCheck news, that is about iGPUs which mostly have lesser relation to gaming models, but typical home use models, which dGPU is not necessary to deliver movie playback experiences. Hence, i believe the news is about those Inspiron/XPS/Vostro series products, not Latitude/Precision/G Gaming/AlienWare products?

The Brits gets a first taste of the Aphrodisiac Red pill of computing power, that less stress to body systems(U series)!
With

https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/ideapad/s-series/IdeaPad-5-15ARE05/p/88IPS501393
@ GBP500 with "entry lvl'" 6 cores, thats hard to resist! ​

The Germans hv a little lead in home computing WAR!!!

With the additional option of a little "lesser armed" spec with IdeaPad 3,
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/81W4...96d1ee56d&fromEdit=true&transMessageFlag=true
...lesser option on CPU types, lesser on brightness by 30nits, lesser WHr on Power Juice pack by up to 28Whr...

By choosing identical configuration to compare(256gb SSD, 6core 4500u CPU, 8gb RAM, FHD screen with the minimum brightness specification, 2pin Euro power block) with one another,
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/81YQ...7bd8f5bbb&fromEdit=true&transMessageFlag=true
...IdeaPad 5 is definitely a better buy @ 5euros more!!!

 

Not a bad machine... (the 4800U seems to be as powerful as Ryzen 2700, except with higher single threaded performance and far lower TDP) but somehow I thought the price was a bit disappointing without a dGPU (which I would kinda need for 3d work).

Add to that 2-3 weeks waiting times.
I wonder why hadn't they offered a dGPU like 5500M or 5600M for some people? The chassis looks like it would be capable enough for it.

Although, I'm not too sure if I'd trust Lenovo.
They do have a history of giving AMD APU's bad cooling (2 cooling pipes for Intel variant vs 1 cooling pipe for AMD variant) and not too great hw options... but the screen quality looks good here (I think).

 

This is what under the cover of my Intel based L340-17IWL lappie.

The IdeaPad under the S series are mostly much slimmer in thickness than mine
that i don't think can accommodate dGPU and heat pipping.​

Wouldn't that be nice? I'm hoping that Lenovo could come out with a All Red Blooded AMD system as well...

Base on the current L340


...or Y540 structure...

Unfortunately there isn't such announcement and listing yet.
So... for big screen buyers, we're stuck with the only option from MSI with their Bravo17.

 

Wow...
What IS it with Lenovo and bad cooling?
The amount of heating pipes is insufficient. The L340 has only 1 cooling pipe, and Y540 has only 2 for CPU and 2 for GPU?

Shouldn't the number of those pipes be at least double in L340, with Y540 having at least 3 cooling pipes for CPU and another 3 for GPU?

They did the same in S145 which has AMD (by placing just 1 cooling pipe) :


This definitely makes me wary of how Lenovo decides to approach Zen 2 hw.

Seems that way.
Even the desktop replacements offered by Clevo which have Ryzen 3900 and are featured in the German XMG and UK PC Specialist only come in 15" chassis.
They mentioned that 17" options are NOT in the pipeline (and have 0 designs on integrating AMD RX options - they said that AMD GPU's might be more 'problematic' in regards to thermal performance and software support - to which I mentioned that those issues may have been the case years ago, but certainly not today - besides, AMD drastically stepped up their game with mobile driver support by merging them with desktop drivers and of course Acer managed to integrate a desktop Vega 56 into a laptop by limiting it to 120W and losing only 10%-ish of performance compared to the desktop counterpart - but the trick is, this 120W limited Vega can be undervolted and overclocked to reach GTX 1080 performance without exceeding 120W limit - which is impressive when you consider the 'unchained' desktop V56 has 210W TDP - just shows you what clock and voltage optimisation can do - along with pottentially better binning).

The XMG temperatures for GPU and CPU full stress seem to be in the range of 75-ish degrees C (GPU = RTX 2070) and 82 degrees C (CPU = Ryzen 3900).

However, XMG said that in regards to noise levels, the machine does seem to get loud (but they couldn't be specific as to the decibels range.

The PC Specialist version of the same laptop and chassis however (which was reviewed) seems to reach over 90 degrees C on CPU and its just under 50db for the fan noise under such conditions (the XMG uses Kryonaut for thermal paste, so its possible that PC Specialist was using a relatively low quality thermal paste). But the implications could be the noise on the XMG variant is higher than 50 db (or possibly the same as in PC Specialist version - at this point, I don't know).

Not sure if I could manage that (or should I say that my ears could manage that).
The Asus GL702ZC was a problem as it reached about 55 to 57 db... and that was headache inducing for me (couldn't focus or work).

My Acer PH517-61 (with Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56) on the other hand was unmatched in cooling (not exceeding 75 degrees C under full stress for CPU and GPU - whereas gaming usually resulted in mid 60-ies for CPU and GPU) and noise levels which were at around 45 db or lower (I'm afraid no other laptop on the market will ever approach it again in the cooling department, even though laptop OEM's certainly COULD design such good cooling).

 

My apologies, a little clarification here, that L340 internals shown belongs to the non-gaming Ryzen system.
The correct Gaming L340 with Intel 9300H & GTX1650 is this

Highest Temp captured under stress...
​

 

But my point stands that Lenovo has a tendency to give AMD half as much cooling pipes vs Intel variant (or so it seems) - even those without dGPU's.

So I'm understandably concerned about how they approach Zen 2.

 

For the mean while, we've not seen any reviews on the new Legion gaming laptops replacement especially the Legion 5 with the new 4000series CPU. So... it's perhaps a little too early to judge that Lenovo will scrimp and save on cooling solution design.
On poor cooling design... Asus did injustice to the Ryzen 3750H with their earlier FX705D lappies.

 

Thats the exact same heatsink used on the all Intel version, you can upgrade it to the dual CPU heatpipe version and extra fin stack for the GPU fan, it only costs around 40€ from Asus and the new bottom with the exhaust holes for the extra fin stack costs 35€.

 

See, most users (even those experienced with laptops) wouldn't have this information.
Which begs the question, why didn't Asus just didn't install a dual CPU heatpipe version for the AMD?
And also, how much of a difference would it have made?

I did mention that we have no reviews of the Legion 5 with Ryzen 4000.
I said I'm merely worried about Lenovo doing AMD injustice given their history with AMD laptops.

 

Probably the world's first video review on the 4000series entry lvl 6core CPU in a slim chasis!

with the latest IdeaPad 5 15inch slim laptop. This time round, the heat dissippitation may not disappoints some expectation! Internals revealed!​

 

AMD Ryzen 7 4800U at 27 W delivers a 34% increase in performance

https://optocrypto.com/amd-ryzen-7-4800u-at-27-w-delivers-a-34-increase-in-performance/

Heh... see, OEM's should do THIS for laptops (and give them proper cooling in the process to be quiet and cool under full load).

If they paired this little guy with a dedicated GPU like 5500m and 5600m (with decent cooling and minimal/low noise during maxed out stress tests) I'd probably go for that instead of the H or HS series.
Give it also 16GB or ability to upgrade to 32GB or RAM (LPDDR4 of course for maxed out iGP performance when you need it) and that would be GREAT.

 

I wonder is it just my personal false observation...

...the 3500U was toned to perform less efficient in this ASUS becos the cooling design is...poor?​

 

Asus cooling designs are generally speaking poor.
Their GL720ZC (with desktop ryzen 1700 and RX 580) ended up being a disaster when it came to fan noise (57 decibels which ended up headache inducing)... and temperatures going over 90 degrees Celsius on the CPU when fully stressed - ultimately resulting in a unit which fried its own motherboard twice in a very short time frame (all this in a 17" chassis no less).

Needless to say, Asus also messed up AMD Navi GPU's with incorrect pressure of the cooling assembly on those GPU's and had the gull to blame AMD for providing basic 'guidelines' for cooling assembly pressure (but never actually TESTING their own cards before shipping them to ensure everything works properly - so they stopped blaming AMD eventually and realised they need to conduct proper in-house testing beforehand and issues an option to recall all their Asus Navi GPU's).

Incidentally, the highest number of Navi GPU's with black-screen problems were Asus cards.
Sapphire and other more respected OEM's tended to have either no problems or very negligible amounts (either way, chances of experiencing issues with those GPU's were excessively low).

Furthermore, their newest Zen 2 laptops also allow the CPU to reach 90-95 degrees Celsius when fully stressed - which can also result in high noise.
Meanwhile, the GPU (which is often GTX 1660ti or RTX 2060 - both of which have MUCH higher TDP than the much more efficient Zen 2 CPU) tend to run 10-15 degrees cooler.

I'm not going to get Asus stuff ever again until I get some reassurance they improved their quality control and started giving laptops decent cooling with relatively quiet fans under load.

 

Expect noisy fans if you want the best cooling. Apple went for fans with less noise but with processors running 100C. It's what it is. You can't get both. Only if the manufacturers increase the notebook chassis volume to be able to use bigger and better cooling + fans. We will see the opposite... Thinner chassis with less volume for proper cooling.

 

Well...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Flex-14API-Review-Ryzen-5-raises-the-bar.436864.0.html
...cool temp is still achievable with slim chassis. It's just a matter of how or what approach that the manufacturers adopt.

 

Shouldn't be much of a problem in a 17.9mm thick chassis with a 15 Watt Cpu if Dell is able to put coming Core i9-10885H in a 18 mm chassis. Everything is relative. The Dell book will be a hot mess but that Cpu will suck a lot more power.

 

Adding Asus slim twist n flip...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-...130U-SSD-FHD-Convertible-Review.415856.0.html
... with dual core CPU by Intel, in idle, it doesn't seemingly good in cooling design.

 

TBH, the Yoga 7 slim, 14", is of interest here. It is about 3 times the performance of my current 2500u. in R20

 

PH517-61 did perfectly fine. It was quiet and cool even under maxed out load (I sound like a broken record here - I know).

Granted, the chassis for that unit is 17" but its thickness is comparable to the XMG Apex 15 (and GL702ZC).
The GL702ZC had massively worse cooling for a laptop its size and was nearly 20 degrees hotter under load.
How do you explain that?

My point is that laptops don't need to be noisy to be cooled properly (even with desktop grade hw inside).
If they are, then the cooling is simply speaking inadequate for the chassis (which may or may not be adequate in itself).
I'm not really sure how they expect of people to work on such noisy machines, or how people can be content with such lousy designs.

Don't you think that consumers deserve quality cooling in a laptop of any kind and that its the OEM responsibility to design a proper cooling assembly for each class of laptops with specific hw?

I can understand and expect CERTAIN level of noise, but I'm not going to put myself through another round of headaches (like I did with Asus) just because the OEM's couldn't be bothered to design proper cooling, or give the unit a slightly larger design).

In fact, XMG is far from thin. Neither are the GL702ZC or PH517-61.
XMG has thickness on par with PH517-61 and it seems to be running hotter and louder (except maybe the GPU).

I don't particularly care about 'thin and light' (but even those machines have poorly executed cooling to be fair - their internals speak for the mess OEM's built into them such as inadequate number of thermal pipes and dingy fans that need to ramp up to really high RPM's).

I'll say this for OEM's - quality control in regards to cooling and noise certainly decreased.

That's because the 4800u in Yoga slim 14" is unlocked to cTDP of 25W-27W (which gives it 34% more performance than 4800u at 15w in multithreading, and about 5% more performance in single threaded tasks).
Mind you, that's about 70% increase in power draw, but to put it in perspective, the total power consumption is still like an energy efficient light bulb (or 2.5 LED ones each rated at 10W).

But the results you get from this performance increase means that the 'TDP unlocked 4800u' is only about 7% behind 4800H (for nearly 20W less - and the unlocked 4800U seems to be faster in single core too, which seems a bit odd).

I like the prospect of that machine to be honest, but a lack of dGPU is something that's bugging me. I kinda need a dGPU (because, despite the fact the Vega iGP is enhanced on an uArch level, its still not enough for some of the things I need - but admittedly it IS highly useful for battery).

 

The Thais gives their 9mins excitement preview of the
upcoming Ryzen Legion 5!

Unfortunately...there isn't any auto-generated subs for computer browser YouTube's auto-translate to share with international audiences ​

 

CPUs are much harder to cool than GPUs due to their thermal density.

 

Acer Predator 17 inch (offered with Intel and AMD chips). 70W Package power and 95C. 51 dB(A) ain't bad but still not a quiet machine under full load. Make it thinner as todays trend and you can see it goes the wrong way.

 

The PH517-61 has Ryzen and Vega inside.
It was still pretty quiet and cool for me when I was maxing it out (certainly much cooler than the Intel system you have in that screenshot).

Intel performed worse (thermally speaking) in the same chassis for some reason - probably because it may have far exceeded its TDP by a lot more than Ryzen 2700 (which generally stays much closer to its TDP).

The Zen 2 CPU's are much more power efficient than NV gpu's (aka, they don't pull the same amount of power - or in some cases are pulling nearly the same amount of power under extreme duress for a very short period).

The lower on the nm scale you go components will end up producing more heat, but this is why you balance things to avoid getting too hot with IPC improvements, specific clock frequencies (and boosts).

The die size is another factor, but since OEM's know this, shouldn't they give the CPU an extra cooling pipe in that case?
Or redesign it to use carbon composites as opposed to copper?

 

The Ryzen 3000 series CPU's (desktop chips) have changed that.
Why is my Ryzen 3000 processor getting so hot? - Noctua

This large difference in heat-density is the reason why newer Ryzen 3000 processors become much warmer at similar heatloads than their predecessors.

Running with +80w power consumption will need its cooling.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/xmg-apex-15-with-ryzen-3950x.832568/page-8#post-11008563

 

Ryzen 3700x caps out at 90W maxed out load.
Same applies to 3900 (non X version) and 3950x (in ECO mode).

However, taking the smaller die (and therefore larger heat output) into consideration, why hadn't Clevo anticipated this?
To top it off, they placed it in a 15" chassis. Putting this thing into a 17" body would likely make more sense as it would allow for much better cooling (translating to better thermals and of course lower noise).

And despite that, why not add an extra heatpipe in that case for Zen 2 mobile?

 

YUP!

...like this expanded body of the OriginPC EON15x.
(picture shown is EON17x actually)​

 

Add more pipes doesn't help if the fans and grills can't remove the heat (the cooling capacity is already maxed out). And stronger fans in the same size often add more noise.

 

There are fans that can remove more heat at lower RPM's (therefore lower noise).
I do think Acer used these in the PH517-61 (as that chassis is the same as the one used for the Intel version, however the AMD version was also mentioned to have beefier cooling than Intel).

Yup.
That's similar to what Acer did with PH517-61 (except that Acer put some quite powerful cooling in this particular unit - even the Helios 500 version with Intel/NV doesn't have same cooling - plus, Intel tends to run away from its TDP base by larger % compared to Zen - I am fairly confident that the cooling in PH517-61 would be able to take the 3700x and possibly 3900/3950x (both limited to 65W) - that is if Acer bothered to release the BIOS update) :

 

The issue is thermal density, not total thermal output. Looking at something like the Ryzen 7 3700X versus the mobile RTX 2070.

Zen2 chiplet: 74 mm², 3.9b transistors, 65W TDP, has sTIM and IHS (increase thermal resistance) between die and coldplate
Transistor density: ~52.7m transistors/mm²
Thermal density: ~0.88W/mm²

Mobile RTX 2070 (TU106 die): 454 mm², 10.8b transistors, 115W TDP, bare die contacts coldplate
Transistor density: ~23.8m transistors/mm²
Thermal density: ~0.25W/mm²

The cooling in the Clevo NH5x AMD model is already skewed toward the CPU, which has twice the number of heatpipes as the GPU. Yet the GPU still runs significantly cooler despite its higher thermal output. Which should tell you that the thermal density disparity I outlined above is considerable.

 

Oooh... It seems Techepiphany had been busy playing with the iGPU of his new toy!!!
An AMD Ryzen 4500U powered Acer!!!
Here's one of the sneak
​

 

The Lenovo Yoga Slim (14") with 4800 unlocked to 27W should behave better.
But I have to admit, that's some pretty good performance from an iGP.

It will be even better when iGP's start shipping with on-board VRAM (such as 2 to 4GB).
HBM might be ideal for this due to its very high bandwidth... but I don't know if we will see it on Zen 3 APU's... probably not.
Maybe Zen 4 or 5.

 

Ryzen 4k powered IdeaPad 5 now available to AMD geeks in the land of Down Under!!!
https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptop...deaPad-5-15ARE05/p/81YQCTO1WWENAU0/customize?
Unfortunately... options are not as good as the Europeans now as the configurations are stuck with 57whr power packs, as well as highly priced for the moment.
https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/IdeaPad/IdeaPad_5_15ARE05
Perhaps for some, u might wanna wait for more options available?

 

Nah.
I've already re-ordered the PH517-61.
Older tech, but quite honestly I need a laptop to work with, and that one will do me just fine for years to come (especially with V56 inside and massive cooling which keeps the hw nice, cool and fans are barely audible at load).

The XMG is just too noisy to be able to do any proper work at either idle or under load, and the Lenovo as you said is stuck with a smaller battery and only an iGP (which is not bad, but working on content creation kinda needs dedicated GPU with much more VRAM).

Asus I just don't trust with their quality control or cooling... and MSI have given the Bravo 15 and 17 anaemic batteries (57Wh) with only 5500m (plus the temps on the CPU when fully stressed are above 90 degrees Celsius and the thing certainly seems to get quite loud when stressed).
5500M is not a bad GPU, but 5600M would have been a 'bare minimum'. Heck, I can OC the Vega 56 in my Acer to surpass 5600M without exceeding 120W if I need to (but hardly necessary).

I guess I could have waited for the Lenovo Yoga with unlocked 4800u, but again, only an iGP. Yoga is also hardly known for its budget price, plus its only a 14" screen (gotten used to 15"-17").

I'll just use the Acer and possibly get myself something better in 3 or 4 years time - by that time (hopefully), laptops will have much better overall designs (and AMD will have a bigger presence in the market with far more powerful options).

 

I'll be waiting for the availability of the IdeaPad3 17inch make, then opt for 4700u.
As for the MSI Bravo17, shall be determine on the battery size and availability of 4600H as an option as well as like what u mentioned, battery size...

 

What you see is what you probably get with MSI.
I don't know if they intend on expanding their zen 2 line with more Renoir laptops or more powerful batteries (if past releases were any indication, then probably not).

As for IdeaPad3... Any idea if Lenovo plans to do that one with Renoir or more powerful batteries?

 

The current Intel based IdeaPad3 battery hv option for buyers to upsize from 42Whr to 56Whr... IdeaPad5 goes from 45whr up to 57Whr.
TFI, the YouTube channel previously made some tests with desktop CPU to test on the CPU benchmark for image processing scores, got some impressive results, but no further details on whether a dGPU was engaged in the process...

Ouch ...how blur am i to missed out the USE of RX580 in this evaluation!



​

 

I would seriously consider a 4k, backlit, 17', 8 core laptop right now!

 

@TANWare 17'?

 

The Razer Blade Pro 17 comes tantalizingly close. Maybe with a 10th-gen refresh it will get that 8-core CPU.

 

Acer Helios 500 PH517-61 here... Ryzen 2700 (8c/16th - 65W) and Vega 5 (limited to 120W but performance within 10% of its TDP unlocked counterpart - and can be OC-ed and undervolted for GTX 1080 performance without exceeding 120W).

Deceptively quiet under maxed out load (barely audible), ridiculously cool (doesn't exceed 75 degrees Celsius under maxed out load for CPU and GPU), efficient and quite responsive/fast.

A bit older but works marvelously... 17" of course (Zen 2 mobile IS better, but I'm not bothered as my config is very powerful as is - and its all AMD).
Its a bit thick and can be a bit heavy (still quite portable though), but worth it because of the cooling and performance it gives.

I like the 17" screen... been using 14" for the past several months (as I didn't have anything else), and 17" is MUCH nicer.

Been playing Ori and Will of the Wisps.
Next game will be Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order.

 

17", sure, 17' though? I wouldn't want to meet giant @TANWare (one that can carry a 17' notebook computer) coming towards me in a dark alley.

 

Razer wouldn't be my choice to be honest.
Too expensive (because of the brand name alone) and previous problems with thermal throttling.
You might be better going for something else that has decent cooling and Zen 2 (at least 4800H) in a 17" format.

 

Really want 4K though.

 

Hm...
Not that many laptop displays come with 4k.
The Razer Blade Pro 17 does does at least offer an option for one, but in all honesty, you'll be hard pressed using 4K in games (maybe productivity software)... as playable framerates under those resolutions are difficult to achieve (even for RTX 2080 - depending if you perceive below 60FPS playable).
You'd need 2080ti for that, and then you're at a juncture of finding a good laptop with one. You may need a desktop replacement for that.

Though, correct me if I'm wrong, but even if you DID get a non-Razer desktop replacement laptop for example, couldn't you just install a 4K display yourself?
Although, in that case, why not just go for 2K display instead?
Its a step up from 1080p at least and definitely more manageable for RTX 2080 (for example). Heck, even my Vega 56 should be able to provide playable FPS on 2K with preset settings on 'high'.

As far as UI goes, aren't we coming up a bit short for 4k on a 17" screen in terms of usability? 2K maybe.

 

You need a graphics card that would support the lanes and interface for the screen along with a compatible install. There is nothing yet on the market but hopefully soon, Also not a gamer here.

 

I mainly use my Helios for productivity and content creation... gaming is occasional for me.
Apart from that, as I said, wouldn't using something like 4K on 17" look a bit tiny?
You might be able to get away with it using 2K, but 4K would be a bit difficult (and I'm sure you're aware of Windows scaling issues).

 

one think for sure... The Ryzen won't make it to move into "premium" Lenovo P housing...
​