AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Testing AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake For Business Use | PCMag.com

tl;dr: conclusion

The second Ryzen is past the 4GHz it will compete in real time with Intel, the clockspeed still means a lot. On top of that, once optimization is in place (I know BIOS updates and OS updates are worked on atm) they are in a sweet spot that they will have to leverage to their full potential.

The question is whether AMD knows they have created a jewel or not.

 

A lot of work went into these video's, but the RX580/570 are just refreshes of the RX480/470, depending on the AIO card OC maybe up to 5-11% real world difference in games between a top OC RX580 and a RX480 stock (not much OC there anyway), more or less depending on the game. The refresh does put the RX580 in better competition with the 1060, and there is a $10 MSRP drop in pricing. There is a big bump in power usage, and the top OC'ing cards are really thick, like 2 1/4 slot width. AMD added "Chill", an FPS limiter to reduce unneeded FPS over monitor refresh, and that's a big deal - reducing power, cooling, noise, and increasing life. The benchmarks have "Chill" disabled.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/57177/nvidia-launch-next-gen-volta-based-geforce-q3-2017/index.html

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NGreedia don't want come in Intel's situation

 

When you push up launch by six months, which effects fab scheduling, while at the same time expecting to cannibalize 1080 Ti AND Titan Xp sales, you're scared and telling everybody. Considering those releases didn't shake AND into leaks on performance...

Also, this time they are pushing up the price, meaning they were bleeding margin on the other cards at the same time as being scared. I just don't know I'll wait another quarter if Vega kills the Ti. Nvidia's actions on drivers and laptops lately makes me feel like Vega is worthy, if performance is there, to thumb my nose at Nvidia.

Edit: also, with the scheduling move, this might not have the 12nm die shrink

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This isn't so much an answer, but also shouldn't be written off. It is built on 14nm++, which will not be beat by 10nm until 2019-20 when 10nm++ comes out. So, it is a good chip.But, the pricing sucks.Also, if it doesn't work on the z100 &200 chipsets, you have two motherboard generations released in the same year. Consumers will be pissed! But it shouldn't be written off, it just isn't great.

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Now this news made me think long and hard. I have an Asus Strix 1080 TI OC card still unopened I got from newegg and I have 10 more days to return it before my RMA expires (I initially placed the order and then got buyer's remorse after 30 minutes; then attempted to cancel the order but couldn't but Newegg will accept the return). If Nvidia is going to release a new GPU series late summer, I can get by with my 1080's SLI for now and see how Vega/Volta pans out.

 

Probably a good idea, as now we know why Nvidia rushed out the Titan XPp right after the 1080ti, the Volta release is breathing down our necks right afterwards.

It's a tough time to buy something, that's for sure, new stuff coming around the corner and likely significantly faster, cheaper, and more power efficient.

 

Nshitia and Toilentia are both sabotating themselves from a business standpoint, but it is alright, because they literally have monopoly on the market.

 

Yeah but I wanted to go back to a single card setup. I tried selling my Asus Strix 1080 OC cards for 460 each but most people locally are only offering $350. I'll stick with what I have now and play the waiting game.

 

Exactly what I would recommend! Sit back and wait. If doing SLI, since you cannot force crossfire, but can with SLI, waiting is your best bet. If single card, check the performance of Vega against Volta, with the time to improve driver support. It is the best way to go.

 

"The all new RX480 Vbios..."
Starts at 28:20...


The Radeon RX 580 8GB Review - Polaris Populism

 

AMD has pushed Intel into battle Intel to Unveil Basin Falls, launch Coffee Lake ahead of schedule - digitimes.com

"Intel will unveil its Basin Falls platform, i.e. Skylake-X, Kaby Lake-X processors and X299 chipset, at Computex 2017 in Taipei during May 30-June 3 two months earlier than originally scheduled, and will bring forward the launch of Coffee Lake microarchitecture based on a 14nm process node from January 2018 originally to August 2017, to cope with increasing competition from AMD's Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 5 processors, according to Taiwan-based PC vendors."


Coffee Lake: cheaper 6-coreer possibly already in August - Notebookcheck.com

Translated from German

 

That PCPER podcast I just posted has a good discussion of Intel Reaction to Ryzen at 56:20 (click me).

 

Does Ryzen Really Need Fast Memory? Guide for Gamers


Does RAM speed REALLY matter?

 

I don't see/hear any reaction to Intel in that link at that time spot...

 

1:14 or about there is the Intel rumor segment. I'm just now getting up and getting ready to respond. But this is, if true, an Intel reaction like increasing the Xeon core count from 28 to 32 core flagship. Also, Skylake-X and Kaby-X both are 14nm+ process. Coffee is 14nm++. Someone in an article said Intel purchased 5 more EUV machines recently, but I have not confirmed that, nor have I seen anything saying 14nm++ would be an EUV design, so it is likely just preparing for EUV incorporation on advanced 10nm processes.

It is still a rumor, but if this is true, Intel is willing to kill Kaby to keep higher margins to compete with Ryzen.

Meanwhile, AMD's earnings will only include March's numbers and CNBC says will come May 1. Considering both Intel and Nvidia moved up releases, if rumors are true, means they don't exactly plan this war to be all pricing.

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Gigabyte RX 570 4GB Aorus Review: Power, Thermals, FPS


Powercolor Red Devil RX 570 Review & Benchmarks (Overclocked)


Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 570 4GB Review | Good Enough To Be Called A New Line


PowerColor Red Devil Golden Sample RX 580 Review

 

Scott Wasson Q&A: What is "GPU IPC?" Pipeline Stages, & More

 

http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-chipset-drivers-download.html
So, updated chipset drivers for those that have AM4 boards. Let us know how it works!

 

"This driver supports the X370, B350, A320 and A300 chipsets. Supports Windows 10 / 8.1 / 7 (32 & 64-bit)."

 

Sorry if this was posted already but it really does look like Intel is pushing for an early release. A 12c processor...

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/in...9-chipset-announced-at-computex-may-30th.html

"The X299 chipset will be compatible with Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X Intel Core X series processors. Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X, will include 12, 10, 8, 6 and 4 core products. That 12-core version is a new one and seems to be a bit of a panic reaction from Intel towards AMD who might be releasing 12 and 16 core parts."

AMD, time to unleash yours ahead of time.

 

In some articles I've read, the 12-core version may not come until December. This means a full design/tape out accelerated to give it additional performance over the Xeon 12-core version, which would make sense. Adding 4-cores to the Xeon line is easier than having to add 2 while supporting a faster GHz rate of the X series for HEDT/workstation. But, with all the acceleration, it will take some time to sort out reality from rumor.

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If this is true, that potentially gives AMD a leg up in the HEDT market, a few months on the market (if the August release date is correct) without an Intel answer. I want to build either a 10 or 12 core HEDT and whoever can deliver at least 4.0Ghz will get my money. In the time being, I have to decide to invest in the Acer X34 or wait to see if anyone will offer an Ultrawide beyond 100hz.

 

Well, considering Intel's 8-core will cost what AMD's 12-core will likely cost, I'd say base it on if you need IPC or more multi-threading. The 16-core may cost what Intel's 10-core costs, if the 10-core price is reduced to around what the last gen 8-core costed. In other words, sliding the slots down on core count, but keeping pricing roughly equal. The old 20-lane 6-core is moved to the mainstream, replaced by the Kaby-X 4-core entry with 140W tdp.

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Ryzen 5 1400 vs. 1500X: 8MB vs. 16MB L3 Gaming Test!

 

http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/104953-rx-vega-launch-within-next-two-months-says-amd/

Edit: http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/104950-amd-launches-polaris-powered-radeon-pro-duo/

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More articles on Vega release, including articles about driver development, Vega used with Adobe creative products, etc.:
https://wccftech.com/amd-confirms-rx-vega-launching-quarter-showcases-running-8k-video-editing/
http://www.networkworld.com/article...gas-ability-to-handle-8k-graphics-at-nab.html
http://wccftech.com/amd-teases-vega-prey-preview-gpu-launching-2017/ (from February, but telling they are trying to have a competent day 1 driver)
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2017-April/152733.html (OpenGL support for Vega)

 

Thought I would give these links a quick read... to see the demo's and other 'showcases' showing Vega running 8K video (which in one link below is indicated to still be a few years away).

Didn't see any demos at all? More puffing from the AMD camp?

Or, did I miss anything?

 

You missed it! It said rendering 8K video in Adobe premier, not running video at 8K. I may have mistyped what the articles discussed. But this was the Pro WX Vega card, not the consumer card. They also showed off the Pro Duo with two Polaris cores and 32GB of ram for content creators. This wasn't the consumer cards, but is right up your alley as a content creator. You should see what the new Pro Duo did compared to Nvidia in Adobe programs (at a $1000 price tag).

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Id Software praises AMD Ryzen and promises optimizations for the next game engine - sweclockers.com Use Google translate

"This means that players will eventually be on more powerful processors than today, something that allows Id Software to put more effort into parallelization. Just this is highlighted for the next major version of Idtech, which will benefit from all the performance available in the multi-core Ryzen processors."

"Ryzen has a super attractive price point, so we’re going to see a lot more capable CPUs in a lot more people’s hands over time and the additional threads and cores allow us to turn up a lot of things, like better frame rate, more AI, more things happening in the game space, more simulations running, more realistic worlds."

"We’re working on the next generation of idTech right now and we’re definitely going to fully optimize for Ryzen. The new engine technology that we’re working now is far more parallel than idTech 6 was; we plan to really consume all the CPU that Ryzen can offer."

And all those who hoped for long lifespan and opted for the fully locked down 4 core i7-6700hq - 7700hq Will they feel a little cheated? Or shall we say screwed ? I haven't forgot all those Who paid +$4000 for machines with 6700HQ. Not fun if you opted similar machines for 3-5 years lifespan.

Spoiler: See what I meant?

 

I know this is off topic but the Radeon pro wx7100 used in the links is like a crossfire of 2 RX580's or so. I think the Vega will be fast but for the consumer version unless crossfired with two of them 8K may be a stretch not just for video but for gaming especially.

 

Well, to put this into perspective, the previous Pro Duo had Fiji cores, much less ram, but allowed content creators to better optimize for crossfire. This allowed the new Sniper Elite game to reach 100% crossfire scaling. Now, you are correct on the Pro Duo being two 580s, but, at $1000 ($500 less than the last version) and with way more ram, much can be done. It outperforms the Titan series and is a good addition for the Pro segment, as this is meant to compete with the Titan, not the Nvidia K series (which is against the FirePro cards, unless they have changed that recently/I haven't followed it in awhile so I could be wrong here).

I definitely agree on the consumer version having to be in crossfire. Considering 8K is 4X 4K and the 1080 or Ti only plays Wildlands at 40FPS average on 4K ultra, you would need like 4 cards from Nvidia, and even that wouldn't be good enough due to SLI scaling. The best you could hope is that the Vega consumer flagship could meet or slightly exceed the Ti and that, due to the Pro Duo helping with better crossfire scaling, you could then use crossfire on multiple GPUs to hit the mark. Considering the 500 series performance, the added crossfire development, the rumors showing an underclocked (75% of expected final version) Vega matching a 1080, and the expected Tflop performance of the Vega exceeding the Pro Duo, you are still correct in saying crossfire is the only way to hit that in gaming (which may perform better in crossfire over SLI in properly supported titles, especially as Nvidia has tried to kill SLI support).

Just wanted to mention that in some titles, you would likely still need more than two consumer cards to hit that mark.

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Lets not forget the absurd lack of good optimizations in todays games...

It is absurd that good optimization is so heavily overlooked, it makes my eyes water.

 

Rendering and my 'running' was meant to be the same thing. I still don't see it though in those links?

The content creating that I do is with pro, still cameras. Not video. The editing of those images doesn't even need a discrete GPU...

Do the Pro Duo's accelerate PS and LR? Then, I might be interested (a little).

Thanks.

 

That I'm not sure on. For premiere, it cut it nearly in half, if I remember correctly. This exhibits some optimizations for Adobe, which makes sense because of Apple's use of Radeon GPUs.

I do agree it is roughly the same thing, but rendering can include applying color changes, edits, etc., into the work, so it can take more time than the running of the film depending on the frame per second rendering. I linked reports on what was shown, as I have not found film of the event yet and was not personally present. I do apologize for using the word "show" when it should have been "tell." Lol.

So, I'd wait to see if it does provide a benefit to those two programs, but it may be something that interests you if it does. Of course premiere makes a better exhibit because of the longer nature of much of the encoding process, but I'd almost be willing to bet it applies to the entire creative suite.

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Thanks, I thought I was going blind trying to find links to video on those links...

Up to now, I have not seen GPU's have an extensive impact across the entire CC suite. If that has changed; I'll be re-optimizing my workflow (soon!).

Take care.

 

From our conversation earlier, I went ahead and searched to see how to turn on GPU acceleration and what features come with it. They do not have any recent cards listed, but do mention compatibility with most cards after 2014. Here are the links to Adobe's pages so that you can check it out yourself and decide whether or not it would be worth it. If nothing else, if you have a relatively new GPU on a computer somewhere around, you could run a test with and without GPU acceleration and decide which works best for you and provides the best results or balance of benefits.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-gpu-faq.html
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-cc-gpu-card-faq.html

Neither program supports more than one card, officially, but suggests that it may be able to, if necessary. To do so, make sure the cards are the same make and model, same driver version, etc. How this would work with the Radeon Pro Duo, I'm not exactly sure as they do not list dual chip cards on LR or PS, but do list the 295X2 for premiere. Also, I do not know if those two programs matter so much on Cuda and OpenCL support (I'm not as familiar with the programs as I'd like to be, but both are supported by Premiere), but finding that out and which you would prefer to use may influence your purchasing decision (or what you would prefer to use if you fiddle around with Premiere for fun in your downtime). Except for testing (which even the mobile 900 series seems supported), if you are going to buy, I'd recommend the fastest single GPU card out there (unless certain something like the Radeon Pro Duo would work (by shooting Adobe an email to confirm support on those programs)). You'll need to look up the advantages of Cuda with the Titan and Quadro lines and check them (and performance reviews) against the FirePro and Pro series, or the upcoming Vega consumer card and the 1080 Ti. But, since you asked about it, I hope this helps!

Also, I do not know how much support has been added since 2014 or how the changes would impact your workflow, but considering they have been working on it for the past couple years (hence saying just about any card past 2014 will work), it may have a larger impact now. With that said, using graphics acceleration, on many programs like these, has seen them love higher IPC over more threads (as I mentioned before). That may change in the future as Adobe optimizes for Naples and Ryzen, but it is worth mentioning again as it may impact your platform purchase decisions. I cannot remember if the higher IPC love was seen specifically testing Adobe products, so it would be worth checking some of the Ryzen reviews again and once Naples and Skylake-X are released in June-Aug. time frame. I think Jay TwoCentz had a video comparing the 6900K with two 1080s squaring off against Ryzen with two Titan X (maxwell) GPUs and the rendering was a couple minutes slower on the Ryzen. But, in his 30 day video, he said it was quite enjoyable and he loved being able to live stream and video capture games playing at 1080p with the encoding happening on the same CPU rather than using a capture card. Further, Linus's video showed better image encoding for gaming than Intel's or Nvidia's hardware encoding acceleration. Just to replay some of the greatest hits in this thread.

 

Thanks, ajc99888.

I am aware of the potential of GPU accelerated workflows, but like I said; in my workloads/workflows it is negligible.

See:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/

The above is an old article of how close a discrete GPU vs. even Intel HD 4000 graphics iGPU compares to some filters/enhancements (most of which I don't use - and these are the ones that are the most significantly accelerated).

See:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...15-8-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X-Performance-910/

Here is a link which shows that Intel is still the platform in the money no object camp (mine) - when, productivity is king (and LR is a major part of your workflow). GPU acceleration isn't too important here... (in my own setup/workflow).

See:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...CC-2017-NVIDIA-Quadro-Pascal-Performance-938/

With Premiere Pro, that changes, of course. With the GPU used being king.


When compared to the performance advantage (negligible, in my case) vs. the higher cost of a discrete GPU for each of my workstations - not to mention the higher power load/worse battery life and higher chance of an additional failure point - an iGPU solution such as is offered by most Intel CPU's is highly desirable.

Put another way; for the cost of a decent discrete GPU (8GB VRAM) to give ~5% (overall, for my workloads) advantage - I can buy two or more additional SSD's for my DT workstations. These can be used as Scratch Disk space (with 50% or more OP'ing...), or, they can be used as fast storage for transferring RAW image files to be ready to be processed by the main setup... used like this, SSD's provide much more than mere single digit improvements to productivity and are a much better purchase than discrete GPU's have ever been for my workflows (at least since iGPU's became a 'thing').

Multiply the savings of a decent/discrete GPU by many dozens of workstations and I could buy multiple units of the NAS below which frees each workstation up to concentrate on the work (only) - and not also the managing of the huge files I end up producing daily/weekly/monthly.

See:
https://www.qnap.com/en/product/model.php?II=160&event=2


With an i7 QC, 16GB of RAM, 7x 8TB and 1x 1TB SSD and 4x 10GbE ports - a NAS like the above performs almost as a DAS in some/most of my workflows. That is where I have greatly increased my productivity (time spent on storage/management of my files has drastically decreased - and when I need to expand the storage every few months? Simply clone another identical system like the above - but maybe with 10TB drives next time. ).

Thanks again for your in depth answers; greatly appreciated.

But I think now you know that I have explored what there is already available to me (and I'm making the most from it).

Take care.

 

Definitely! With that information, I agree with your assessment. When I get some free time, I'll see if I can find an equivalent updated version of that 2012 article, just to see if much has changed for your workflow (also just because I love researching stuff like this).

If you want a jaw dropper and proof AMD will take some server space, check out Intel's new flagship Xeon 28C/56T at $12K. Really makes you wonder how the 32C/64T Naples will fare and at what price.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156105872794942&id=49650744941

Also, here is WD's new 12TB:
http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/storage/105067-western-digital-begins-shipping-ultrastar-he12-12tb-hdd/

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With just 205W TDP, that is some serious firepower in the new Xeon's... $12K isn't a lot of $$$$, by itself. It depends what profit you can make from something like that (usually on a 24/7/365 schedule).

Some clients I know can have similar high ticket (tech) paid off in a matter of hours or days, for example...

If AMD comes in too low; they'll never be able to raise the prices (if they're ignoring the long term strategy they should be focusing on; they'll bottom out, again). If they come too high; they'll get slow traction and may never see profit soon enough. Tough position for them to be in.

Google, Amazon, MS, etc. will be able to custom build as needed with these Naples as their base - but most buyers will need something with a little more incentive than just price.

Of course, for both Intel and AMD, we need to see what the performance is. And when they can actually deliver it.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/intel-optane-coming-april-24th.803009/page-2#post-10515129


See the link above to get an idea of why I think Intel still thinks (and acts) like it's still in the drivers seat. AMD Ryzen/Naples or not.

When Micron joins Intel in shipping their version of XPoint (~7 months from now), QuantX, things should get really interesting once again!

See:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/03/micron_working_on_nextgeneration_xpoint/

I'm not in a 'buy' or 'test' mode right now; my workflow is optimized, blueprinted and put to bed.

Rather; I'm in 'what the $%# is coming down the road soon' waiting mode!

In the meantime; saving my pennies and eager to spend them all, very soon.

 

To give a better idea, from what I've read, Intel and Nvidia target 50-60% margin on products. AMD targets 30-40% on products. Considering recent price points on both CPU companies offerings, AMD is able to produce on a shoe string, comparatively. Now, AMD has been adopting more developed nodes while Intel has been rushing for first to market while providing high quality, thereby trying to give justification in the extra 20% margin. But, with what AMD has done here this generation, even with less IPC, they have made a market opportunity by offering value for specific performance. Because of that, I don't think they'll undercut themselves on the long road, although your point is taken by them rushing to 7nm when it is first available. If they use it before EUV, you get less yields, but have lower costs because you are not paying the billions premium for new EUV equipment, whereas with it, you get better yields at more cost. But, by getting some on the platform, if the increased performance is there, the extra cost in price will be negated, especially if it still comes in lower than Intel's offering.

I do agree $12K is nothing, but I do want to know more, as I thought from earlier leaks that the 2.5GHz was the boost rating and 2.2-2.3 was base clock (they may have "against [their] will, knocked it up another notch. BAM!"). But your point is noted. But, if AMD maintained a 40% margin on the Ryzen 8-cores, and the 16-core comes in under $1300 (hopefully $1000-1200) with that margin, they will take a huge chunk, easily paying for the jump to 7nm.

Now, applying that to video cards shows that it costs AMD more than Nvidia, or at least in prior generations, to develop their cards, considering the relative pricing levels, while also showing them often pricing against one tier down from Nvidia's tier. So that fight is harder, but AMD also has around 30% market share there compared to under 6% for CPUs before Ryzen.

Just wanted to add some context.

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What is this? A Dead thread? Come on boys and girls Intel expects CPU prices to fall now that AMD's Ryzen is here - PcWorld.com

"During an earnings call on Thursday, Intel’s CEO Brian Krzanich sidestepped a question on whether Ryzen had any role in the projected chip price declines. He said the market dynamics were a reason."

 

Intel, who's that??

Everybody here is likely too busy "winning" with their new Ryzen computers to spend time posting...maybe later when the new AMD GPU's arrive.

The new Ryzen CPU's for servers would be nice to see too.

 

We Got Inside AMD’s Texas Home - & Learned How To Overclock RAM on Ryzen
Starts@ 3:50

 

A snow storm knocked a branch loose and took out my cable/internet. So, I'll not be posting as much for a week. I live in the US = ****ty and slow cable companies to fix certain things. Around Friday to next Monday, I'll do a week's worth of searching for info. Also, May 1 (tomorrow) is when AMD will release earnings. . . .

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Wish they had the same overclock tool for Linux as well.

 

I keep forgetting how big the country is. In the midwest... Rain expected for the next 5 or 6 days, but temps in the 60s.

 

With the AMD Vega rumors and "benchmarks" floating around I thought I might be fun to post Ryzen + Vega coverage from Dec 2016, and then the rumors...

AMD Radeon Vega Benchmarks Star Wars Battlefront 4K & Doom 4K Compilation


AMD Radeon Vega - 2 SKUs Spotted | Benchmarks & Specs