AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

You can estimate 25-35% performance with the Ti. But, it is one card and works with all titles. You get 72-76% scaling SLI most times, but not all games support it and you can force it, but results can vary. So, you are paying for certainty and reliability. But, I don't think the benefits outweigh the costs in my current decision.

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I used to get close to 100% scaling with Crossfire AMD GPU's, more or less better than Nvidia SLI scaling. With HBA more games do better in SLI, but not as good as they used to do.

When it comes to it, it would be fun seeing what a Crossfire AMD can do against it's equal Nvidia SLI.

Not necessarily top GPU to top GPU, as that would be unfair, cost-wise - the Nvidia 1080ti SLI would be huge $, with AMD being 1/2 that cost.

I guess it would still be fun

 

If you are going to get 2x 1080's why not 2x Water-cooled Vega's? It would be fun to have a 100% AMD rig after all these years

Squid Proxy, for what? Do you do hosting at home?

 

If cost is better on AMD compared to the 1080, I'd consider out if and only if they built in the ability to force crossfire like you can with Nvidia profiles. That's all I would need to make that jump this time. Next time, I want to expand further than two cards (Nvidia practically locks it at two with Pascal) which means I'd care a bit about the power draw.

But, until you can force crossfire, it isn't as appealing. They need to give disclaimers and it would be tested, but would be good. Imagine a 480mm cooling two cards, with an aquatuning active backplate to cool the VRM (look it up!). I'd be happy.

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It's been awhile since I had a Radeon with my AMD rig. Last one was an Athlon 2800+ overclocked to 3333. But nostalgia isn't enough. Unlocking the ability to use your hardware how you see fit is very important.

As for squid proxy, home based business at the moment. Also want the staging of traffic to have an antivirus scan secured packets before reaching the LAN. So, just a mix. Not going to be anything crazy on data storage on that device.

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ASRock Socket TR4 X399 Motherboards – Beyond Expectation

 

What the ? The gigabyte had a timer set for 12:00 EST on pre-orders but there is nothing, nowhere, no how.

 

What Links are you trying? Maybe clear browser cache and retry?

 

Would water cooling even be needed if he undervolts the gpu? With a sufficient and stable undervolt, rx vega will likely not throttle down to lower clocks, will reduce overall power consumption or keep it stable, and produce less heat while operating at stable 1600mhz).

Amd usually integrates water cooling to help reduce temperatures at higher clocks, but undervolt could likely do the same with air cooling because we know they overvolt to increase yields (which this early would depend on silicon quality, but most should be able to undervolt relatively well). Though one could also get a gpu water cooler after and fit it themselves for maybe a cheaper price

 

Water cooling helps the Nvidia Pascal GPU's maintain stable clocks and the same will be true of the AMD Vega's.

IDK if AMD is going to ship with water cooling with any or all of the RX Vega GPU's (or the TR CPU's), but it would be a good option to provide like with their "Frontier Edition" GPU models.

Check out the various reviews of Pascal GPU's with water cooling, and in particular the stability of clocks and power draw reduction under load with water cooling it's all improved.

The heat from higher and higher density is going to keep increasing the need for companies to default to providing water cooling for their high end parts, now's as good a time as any to start

 

It's possible that you could save a few bucks, on the back of your own many hours of labor, but most people aren't so inclined and need an option that gives them the most optimal performance for just plugging things in.

I think the open loop guys will find an angle to offer their own options to replace the OEM CLC option for those with full system water cooling integration - especially with chillers as an option.

 

I don't dispute that, but undervolt works pretty much the same. Vega fe suffered from downclocking/throttling even with water cooling. The air cooled version when undervolted eliminated that problem and reduced temperatures. The liquid cooled vega fe was even overclocked to 1700mhz with lower voltage than 1.2v

 

While undervolting helps, if firmware allows it, there is still a lot of thermal generation that needs to be expelled, and although air cooling is great up to a point, water-cooling is going to bring down the temps much further.

I'd suggest doing both, starting with water-cooling - buying the air-cooled version first is going to reduce your chances of being satisfied with the performance - as people already found with the Air vs Water-Cooled Vega FE...

AMD shouldn't have that large of a delta in cost between air and water cooling with the RX versions - the FE cost delta is mostly due to doubling HBM memory from 8GB to 16GB.

If AMD doesn't offer water-cooled models, ordering aftermarket water cooling is a must 1st step - before they run out and you end up waiting months for parts

 

Lots of news article links come up but no pre-order pages, no prices etc.. It states pre-order available but if you go to the retailers it isn't

http://event.gigabyte.us/x399promo/#

 

It seems the vendors are still asleep

newegg doesn't even have a socket entry for the new ThreadRipper category:

 

So, I find I can install a block as well as buying it pre-done. The cost of buying it already done isn't much, if any, more than just buying it already done. If you have doubts, are lazy, or don't care on the thermal pads used, just buy it with the block on it. Also, the price is relative to the next highest card in that company's line, usually, with minor tweaks.

Second, why undervolt? I've heard with FE it can help, but cooling the VRM opens the throttle on performance. I'm sure I'll find the balance for whatever hardware I get.

Look at this backplate: http://www.aquatuning.us/water-cool...scal-nvidia-titan-x-und-gtx-1080-ti-aktiv-xcs

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NewEgg has 3 Cyberpower PC's with threadripper as out of stock for now.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...er=BESTMATCH&Description=x399&N=-1&isNodeId=1

 

Weird, I am only getting 3 power supplies, and a Kenwood car tuner as search results using that link

newegg might be in the middle of putting in the new products, and you caught some enabled in search in between their edits, they aren't there right now.

 

Introducing AMD Ryzen™ 3 Processors

AMD Ryzen 3 1200 & 1300X Review

AMD Ryzen 3 1300X & 1200 Review, Core i3 Range Put On Notice!

AMD RYZEN 3 REVIEW - KILLING the Budget Competition?

Ryzen 3 vs Intel i3 - ANOTHER AMD Win?

How To Build a $525 GAMING PC with Ryzen 3!

RYZEN 3 Gaming Build! July PC of the Month

What Graphics Card Should YOU BUY for Ryzen 3?

 

AMD Ryzen™ Threadripper™ Processors

Alienware Area-51 Threadripper™ Edition, Powered by AMD

 

http://thermalbench.com/2017/04/26/aqua-computer-kryographics-pascal-1080/5/
Check out the VRM using the active backplate I showed earlier. Then think of how many cards, including Vega, that could help!

 

RYZEN THREADRIPPER DELIDDING (en)
ThreadRipper CPU's are Epyc CPU's with 2 of the 4 8-Core CCX's disabled @ 4:40

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6pw0wu/der8auer_ryzen_threadripper_delidding_en/

 

I'm thinking 1080 ti and mid range Ryzen, but haven't pulled the trigger yet so don't know if that will change.

 

Awesome to know!

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It just occurred to me that Nvidia might release a new series of Pascal GPU's to one-up AMD... might want to wait on those new Nvidia GPU purchases a bit longer...

Or, get an AMD Vega single or Crossfire set up, and let AMD know you appreciate their hard work

 

Oh man, I hope not, give me time to decide NVidia.

 

AMD Ryzen 3 - 1200 & 1300X - Launch Review - 12 Benchmarks

 

I reviewed the image and believe I know exactly what happened. Look at the component nearest the corner with the triangle on the left. It was damaged during delid.

 

AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 coming in two variants
https://videocardz.com/71246/amd-radeon-rx-vega-64-coming-in-two-variants

This is all unofficial, rumor at best.

"Reddit:

ASUS Radeon RX Vega 64, 8GB, HDMI, DPx3 (RXVEGA64-O8G-LIQUID) retailer listed it at 1155€ without VAT, super high… date shows 2017-08-02 as incoming

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6pvu1i/asus_radeon_rx_vega_64_8gb_hdmi_dpx3/

ElChapuzasInformatico:

SAPPHIRE RADEON RX VEGA 64 8G HBM2 HDMI + TRIPLE DP, LIQUID COOLING 2048-bits – Water Cooler

SAPPHIRE RADEON RX VEGA 64 8G HBM2 HDMI + TRIPLE DP LIMITED EDITION 2048-bits – 2 slot active

SAPPHIRE RADEON RX VEGA 64 8G HBM2 HDMI + TRIPLE DP 2048-bits – 2 slot active

https://elchapuzasinformatico.com/2017/07/exclusiva-precio-amd-radeon-rx-vega/ "

 

So Alienware started selling there lineup for the 16 core thread ripper today. From what I have read they have the rights till the end of the year? Does this mean we will not see anyone building there own desktops anytime soon. Hopefully this is not that case.

 

From PCWorld:

Clarification: Alienware claimed a worldwide exclusive on Threadripper, but that exclusive is only among major PC vendor rivals such as HP and Lenovo. Smaller boutique OEMs will indeed be able to build Threadripper-based PCs at launch, as will DIY PC builders.

 

Well that is good. It will be nice to see what it can truly be overclocked to as Alienware does not have a very good cooling solution for there CPU's.

 

They spent their cooling money on designers for their cases.

 

Undervolt helps improve overall efficiency of the GPU and reduce power draw while optimizing performance.
Point is, if AMD already managed to find a way to produce GPU's with optimized voltages from the get go, they would likely run much closer to Nvidia's in terms of efficiency.
Extra cooling certainly can't hurt, but some people don't like extra power and like to be as efficient as possible.
For me, it's not that important to OC because I prefer hardware that runs cooler and more efficiently.

 

Undervolting only goes so far, it's a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole solution, even at stock the Nvidia Pascal 1080 and 1080ti respond greatly to water cooling, and give higher performance with lower power drawn.

The Vega FE has a much higher thermal output than a 1080ti, and provides better performance in the same way with water cooling.

There's no way undervolting is going to make as much of a difference in lowering temperatures as water-cooling.

 

My point was the power delivery and efficiency, as shown by gamersnexus, is improved getting the Vega FE's VRM cooler. The HBM may act strangely with undervolt. Meanwhile, the core only responds when cool. Sometimes, you have to find the sweet spot. You use benches and actual performance to find where a card decreases performance when lowering volts, or doesn't increase performance when increasing volts, to find that spot. If you overclocked the HW CPUs any, you saw this a lot with the cache voltage, where the minimum cache voltage was not always the optimal it efficient voltage. I'm saying finding what works to maximize performance is efficient. If components get starved, you could be hurting performance. This is why I pointed to the aquatuning water block with active CXS backplate, which uses a heat pipe to cool the backside of the VRM and dump it into the water cooling system, which gave 10C lower VRM (had the second lowest temps on the actual water block on that review site). Gaining 2C on core for 10C on VRM, I'll take it!

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Link, some TR info;
https://www.ibuypower.com/Store/AMD-Threadripper-Configurator

 

Notice the price difference on the Taichi (base), the Giga (+$45), and the Asus (+$272)!

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-x399-threadripper-tr4-socket,35101.html

Exclusive Threadripper Socket TR4 Schematics, Cooler Compatibility

 

links;
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3211...en-threadripper-has-two-mysterious-chips.html

 

Seems odd.

I am curious to AMD's official response to this at some point.

 

In de8auer's video he confirmed with AMD that these are indeed Epyc CPU's with 2 of the 4 CCX's disabled.

Given the disabled CCX's, the remaining ones can be clocked much higher, using the full TDP of the device across 2 CCX's instead of 4.

If you look at the other video I posted earlier which showed the Epyc's with all 4 CCX's scaling at 1/2 the ThreadRipper or Ryzen 7's, it makes sense that by increasing the thermal / power budget across 1/2 as many "Cores" that the scaling could be matched with Ryzen for ThreadRipper.

It's so obvious in retrospect, the ThreadRipper's *had* to be made from an Epyc CPU

If AMD could put the 4 CCX's in a carrier and motherboard that could provide 2x the power and thermal handling capability it would be possible for a new Epyc CPU to also match Ryzen 7 / ThreadRipper scaling, but for now it's almost 1/2 scaling in comparison (points/thread):

Here's the video that came from for reference:

Spoiler

 

What primarily becomes obvious is that the 1700x is a way better value.

 

As far as I can tell, the Vega fe hbm when undervolted didn't suffer issues.
However, when you mentioned hbm an older question popped in my head... Namely, hbm reduces power consumption vs regular gddr5 by roughly 60% if I remember the original specs. That and they take up less space since they are on the same die, but thus far, AMD was barely able to keep up with nvidia since first use of hbm, and their power consumption was higher (granted this can easily be explained via overvolting and more compute hardware on AMD end, but still, even with an under volt, you'd hope to see performance go up with high bandwidth throughput and power consumption lower).

I know AMD is strapped for cash, but realistically, maybe they would have been better off using gddr5 and keep hbm under development a bit longer so as to implement it better.
Then again, nvidia also uses a manuf. Process optimized for higher clocks, whereas amd for lower clocks.

Polaris 480 was a great example of how it was able to keep up with 1060 at lower clocks in dx11 and surpass it at dx12... Especially if you undervolt it.
Look at the rx 580 in asus upcoming laptops. 65w tdp, 1200mhz (or lower) at core and still keeps up with 1060 in dx 11 while being in some titles 5-10% behind. Dx12 is surpasses it
.. At much lower power draw than 1060 (drivers certainly helped also).

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Where did my Threadripper delidding video go? - der8auer

 

I am slightly confused to why they chose the 1700x and not the 1800x.

 

Or at least added it to that comparison.

 

A large part of the issue is to do with HBM2 availability. Another part is that by making it dense and moving onto the chip, you concentrate heat, which can then take more to actually squeeze out performance due to thermals, regardless of energy use. Also, without HBM2, it would have taken more time to adapt the HBCC, which is supposed to help with dropped frames, among other things.

On the architecture and speed, I'll reserve comment for siggraph release, that way I'll have the whole picture on accurate pricing and some numbers on performance.

On the voltage, I have not studied Polaris's properties and responses to undervolting enough to give a judgment. I could only speak in generalities why reducing voltage produces less heat, which then allows for higher clocks to a degree to help performance. I also haven't reviewed the 580 in the Asus on temps, which limits my comments on it as well. But remind me in a couple days and I should have more to say on it...

 

AMD Ryzen 3 1200 Review: The Line Between "Fine" and "Exciting"

 

So now well over 24 hours since the pre-order supposedly started and where are the boards?