AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Buying anything with the Alienware name on it is a huge mistake. ThreadRipper will do nothing to make their proprietary filth desktop crap excusable. Dell is a fantastic source for good quality mainstream consumer products and business class machines at acceptable prices. In most cases they are pretty decent, but it ends there. Their nonsense and incompetence is unforgivable when it comes to misrepresenting their second rate crippled trash as enthusiast products. Great example of their incompetence and shoddy product support is the fact that they expect their customers to buy a new desktop to go from 6700K to 7700K. They're too lame and greedy to provide them with a simple BIOS update. Don't count on seeing any benefit having an AMD socket that should be good until 2020. Alienware will make you buy a new desktop rather than properly supporting what they sell you.

 

Something Wrong At Radeon

 

Alienware Area-51 AMD BudgetRipper Desktop - which Linus said had an unexceptional motherboard with limited overclocking options + unsightly memory' - is still in the news



Faster memory coming right up! Now with unsightly price ...

eleven hunge​

64Gb Hyperx Predator from Kingston.com = $710 (US) / 4x16Gb @3000 ... not sure I condone that. Or below:

1950x, 64Gb HyperX, dual-1080Ti, 1500w
120mm AIO
​

 

To me Vega is a bust. The Vega 56 seems like a viable card but the pricing issues make it a no go for now.

 

I agree @TANWare ... OC3D review of TRipper, 360mm AIO cooler, fans cranked to 100%, he complained of high heat (backplate that burned @4+ GHz overclock) = high wattage (691watt system draw) ... toss in today's Vega 64 review which I believe was 648watts draw w/100% GPU fan ...

question is, total system power draw with TRip + V64 overclocked ... like Buster Poindexter: feelin' hot hot hot

 

Wow, that TR can drink up the juice.

 

Pricing was addressed by AMD here:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/amd-rx-vega-launch-price-reduction

It seems their original pricing as announced stands.
They however have little to no control on what OEM's decide to charge for the GPU's... unless they can somehow influence that.

It might be noteworthy to say that Vega 56 power consumption (system - wide) is not a lot higher than 1070 total system power draw.
Plus there's undervolting of Vega 56 which improves power consumption, thermals (and in direct relation, maintains boost clocks for as long as one needs them).

I think the core on Vega should really be left alone except the undervolt and not touching the power limiter.
What would likely be a better option is to focus on HBM overclocking and undervolting in order to improve performance. VRAM on vega is really clocked too low and AMD if I'm not mistaken did mention Vega HBM supports undervolting.

 

NVIDIA and AMD do not control pricing. The people making and selling them decide what to charge. They charge as much as they can get away with. As long as retarded people are willing to get shafted things will be overpriced.

 

Release price gouging happened for weeks with the Pascal cards release too, it's a demand vs supply issue that will get resolved as supply increases past immediate demand.

If Vega 56 is a good performer for the price, then Vega 64 simply outperforms for more money.

Is Vega 64's extra performance over the Vega 56 worth it? Is a 1080 "worth it" for the price over a 1070? For both it is worth it if you want that last bit of performance from 1 slot.

Would Crossfire Vega 56 undervolt/OC be a better choice? Maybe for some games, but there are enough games that don't support multi-GPU / SLI, so same as for the 1080 the Vega 64 is next option up in performance.

The 1080ti isn't in the running if you are trying to support AMD. If the price of the Vega 64 with water-cooling approaches the air-cooled 1080ti, then add on the water cooling costs to the 1080ti and compare again.

Right now cost comparisons for the just released in short supply Vega cards against the long available Pascal cards isn't balanced, even with mining induced higher Pascal prices.

If you really want a Vega card to match your ThreadRipper / Ryzen build, shop wisely and pounce on a card when you see it, you'll pay a premium to the seller most likely, but that's the cost of being first.

 

Now 382 watts I could deal with.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-threadripper-1950x-review,29.html

 

If NVidia is actually playing ball and ensuring compatibility like they seem to be saying they are, then I'd just go with whatever has the best performance at the price point you want and call it good.

 

"If" ??

That's what I'm saying, AMD is needed for competition and fair play to consumers, which Nvidia has had enough exceptions to give the play to AMD.

The power draw issues seem to stem from AMD "unlocking" full performance, and leaving off the power limits to allow settings past the point of diminishing returns, leaving AMD open to excess power draw criticism's.

The AdoredTV video The RX Vega Liquid Edition Review covers this really well, showing the difference between Turbo Mode, Balanced Mode, and Power Saving mode.

Comparing power draw vs FPS, starting with 569w under Turbo (144 FPS) with Balanced 100w - 3 FPS drop, Power Saving 200w - 10 FPS drop, with load differences in RX 64 Liquid edition power draw.

Simply going for broke by squeezing out the maximum stable OC will draw unreasonable power because AMD has made it available - kudo's to AMD for the incredible power load handling capability of their hardware - wow.

So a new approach needs to be used with tuning the AMD Vega cards, go for best performance matched to a power draw and decide the power of diminishing returns - FPS per watt added.

Then Undervolt to reduce power futher; perhaps adding headroom for more useful OC, IDK it's going to take people experimenting with this tuning to get the most FPS for least power draw.

If you are just interested in gaming with the RX 64 and not tuning, be aware that as a gross estimation - Power Saving will get you enough performance for least power draw, running Balanced gains about 10% performance for 100w more power draw, and Turbo mode gains about 2-3% for 200w more power over Power Saving mode.

I would assume similar power vs fps costs for RX 56 reduced in scale.

So we don't need to count out RX Vega for unlimited power draw tuning, we only need to be aware we have a completely unlocked power limit and tune accordingly.

 

Price to performance ratio is not even important to some people though. Many people that want only the best and most powerful are willing to pay more for it and tolerate a lousy ratio. I tend to be that way. For example, using a 1070 instead of a 1080 is not even open for consideration and I'd rather have nothing or just spend nothing and keep using yesterday's best rather than settle for an "upgrade" to a second-fiddle current-generation component. Upgrading to play games at 1080p doesn't even make any sense. We can play most games with high or max graphics settings using a 980M without any less gratifying experience than a 1080. The idea of spending money to upgrade from 980M or a desktop 980 with the intent of playing games significantly better seems kind of ludicrous to me.

On another note, I have been meaning to comment on this and haven't... I wonder why AMD is making such ugly-looking GPUs? The Vega desktop GPUs look like something from 2005. Not that it matters one iota from a performance perspective, but man, those are some pretty chintzy looking GPUs they are selling. If having something that looks as well as it runs is important (and I know some people care about that) they're kind of missing the mark on that.

 

Or they know about how much they want to spend and get the highest performance numbers within that price point which amounts to a similar decision making process.

 

AMD's goal has been price / performance first, and AMD makes the utilitarian boxey card and leaves the "pretty" cards to the partner cards.

This time AMD came out with that limited edition metal shroud model. They both look the same to me, and I'd rather have the same performance for $100 cheaper.

Do you think the Nvidia FE cards look any better, or do you think they are ugly too?

To me the Nvidia FE cards look like old 1950's cars with fins, grills, and swoops, but once they are in the box or laptop, I can't see the fancy designs anyway.

I've built the glass door viewing flashy desk sides for family and friends, but for me I get the sound proofed cases - extra heavy and solid - to reduce the environmental noise.

The card looks aren't important either if you are going to pull off the shroud and cooling to install a water block, the optimal way to run the RX 64.

 

Now I want one in that '50s greenish-blue.

 

Ask AMD, maybe they will consider it

 

I think I qualified that in my post. Performance is more important than aesthetics. My only point is that they made kind of like a half-assed ghetto-looking effort to me on the aesthetics. Not much evidence of pride in the aesthetic department for what should have been an example of AMD putting their best foot forward in every manner possible. I wouldn't not buy it or reject it based on aesthetics if it were a 1080 Ti killer though, and I would likely put water blocks on it as well. It is more the principle of it that I found a little bit puzzling.

Yes, I actually like the look of the NVIDIA FE reference coolers. Performance typically trumps everything else to me, including price. My next desktop will be an open bench station, so having something that looks snappy when it is easily visible isn't a bad side benefit to have along with holding the overclocked performance crown.

 

Live Streaming Now:

GN Live: Hybrid Vega 56 Undervolting & Overclocking (Pt2)

 

XSPC Raystorm Threadripper Waterblock -

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/20/threadripper_at_4ghz_xspc_raystorm_waterblock/1

 

The main reason I never was interested in upgrading to 1070 who is the option I had. Either 1080 or I can live fine with my 980

 

Well, I should (hopefully) soon have a P870DM-G with 1080 working in it. *crosses fingers* - it will definitely put my soldering skills to the test.

 

Jay has gotten his EK TR4 blocks in and I do not like the QC. I am going to have to spend some extra time to make sure there won't be any leaks in my loop.

 

Yeah, after seeing the coverage, I'd have to see a mighty boost to choose that over the Raystorm or a monoblock.

 

This is how the contact looks on the Raystorm, plus the screws are not touching the IHS. I also think the fins cover more on the Raystorm for heat.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/08/20/threadripper_at_4ghz_xspc_raystorm_waterblock/1

 

AMD RX Vega 64 Has Problems

Fábio Sosnoski 7 hours ago
The drivers released yesterday made RX56 at the same level of GTX1080 (in any test), yes the same performance. And while you run it undervolting (it only reachs 210W at max with 1.07V), the temps are very low (max at mid 70's) and the clocks are so high that it beats RX64 in the tests. Also AMD have officially stated some hours ago (yesterday also i believe) that the prices will not raise at all, thats the retailers fault and also the low initial supplies. Do you consider yourself a fanboy? You don't even know whats going on behind the curtains right now! Its out there in many tech websites, forums, channels... Anyway, you lost a subscriber. BYE!

F?UX1 hour ago
"I am an AMD fanboy" Never laughed so hard in my life. Coming from the guy who says Vega FE is bad because it's bad at gaming. Gonna stay subscribed, but if you keep up this horseshit, I'm unsubbing.

giantmonkey1012 hours ago
Okay i'm baffled here, you increased the Core causing the power consumption to skyrocket through the roof DUH and than complain plus you didn't even bother to undervolt the card since AMD has Overvolted these Vega GPUs by a ton and you didn't bother to increase the mem speed to at least 1000 to 1100 mhz+ which causes no power consumption increase and adds performance of a 3 to 5%, seriously you are one hell of a bad overclocker holy ****!

ne0ns Games2 hours ago
My vega 64 overclocks about 150mhz above 1630mhz so it can potentially hit 1800 once we see aib cards it will be much better the performance is great just not the power draw. Not many reviews touch on this subject but Vega under volts really well and runs much cooler in this configuration. Vega reference may not be ideal but Vega AIB if priced similar to 1080 is definitely a great option for any gamer.

aspieman19703 hours ago
@3.18, that is not a 1080Ti for $510, it's a 1080. Please start getting these details right, I'm autistic and find it really distracting.

Timmy Joe PC Tech2 hours ago
**** sorry, I edited this and watched it like 3 times once it was done and didn't even notice that mistake

 

16 cores running a full load at 4.0 with those temps is pretty good. Unfortunately, there is no price or availability for the Raystorm TR, otherwise I would cancel my EK TR block order. The microfins in the Raystorm do cover all four dies, thus making this the best block I've seen so far. The author of the article made a video where he measured the microfin area. It is starting to look like EK went the cheap route with their TR block.

 

Yup, the side view of the block shows that on Jayz's video, they didn't even extend it out far enough to keep the screw holes off from over the cores, nice to see the other one do that. Looks like there is plenty of room in the CPU area for it.

You can see the screw sticking up over the block, and the annotation pointing out that the block wasn't set either - due to the screw not being full tightened.

 

I tell you what, if I can find the 56 on launch day, I'll pick it up.

 

Awesome

For your friends Ryzen build?

I hope you get a golden GPU for undervolt / OC.

 

I'm actually thinking that and sell my EVGA 980 Ti Classified.

 

No, for me. I hope I land a golden sample. Brad and I settled on a 580 8GB, when we can actually find one that isn't over $350. In the meantime, he's using one of my 1070's.

 

Ah, watch out, he'll "repack" that RX 56 in the RX 580 box

That loaner 1070's gonna spoil him for that RX 580, only the RX56 will satisfy after that...

 

27 Games Tested On The Gigabyte Liquid Cooled RX Vega 64!

 

He has a 24'' 1080p monitor, with Freesync. The 1070 is overkill for his needs but he does like having the ability to max out all the settings in the games he plays. The 580 should be able to do the same.

Currently, I'm not accepting any more build requests. I have a lot of work to do on my own builds now

 

I look forward to your RX 56 review

 

AMD Defends MCM Approach for Building 32-core EPYC: Huge Cost Savings of ~41% - Techpowerup.com

---------------------------

Techpowerup.com - The more overpriced Radeon cards end up in the hands of miners, the fewer cards end up in the hands of gamers at the prices AMD promised; and conversely the lesser game developers are inclined to optimize their games for AMD Radeon, because fewer gamers use Radeon. NVIDIA can accelerate brand Radeon's demise by doubling down on game developer relations and pushing the next-generation of Game Works.

Related.
31% more Graphics Cards Sold Thanks to Mining - Guru3d.com

 

Interesting idea about creating new variants of the Veg64 & 56 cards that are crippled for crypto-currency workloads - I'd like to see that happen.

 

A Retort: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58843/hollywood-miners-gobbling-up-radeon-rx-vega-supply/index.html
Basically saying Hollywood is buying, and miners are getting the blame!

Also, say hello to the proud owner of a [email protected] chip.
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-4094/products/1950x395g
http://www.overclock.net/t/1633654/changes-coming-to-silicon-lottery

 

Here's another website (German it would seem) that covers Vega undervolting:
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...vega-56-und-vega-64-im-undervolting-test.html

So, an undervolted Vega 56 performs close to 1080 while consuming almost as much power as 1070 (and less than 1080).
We can see that while Vega 64 is higher performance wise, it's also able to reach higher clocks.. which of course undermines its efficiency for the used manuf. process - though it's noteworthy to say that undervolting 64 also produces good results.

AMD should likely switch over to a process similar to Nvidia if they are shooting for higher clocks.

 

The question is whether I can pick one up quick enough on the 28th. Hopefully they don't disappear in 10 minutes like the 64.

 

On another note, the TT Core X9 case is huge....I am loving the size. Most of the stuff came in today (I was expecting it tomorrow). The only stuff I am waiting on is the EK Kit and the CPU block.

 

Next level bruh What yooo have is all too small Remember... For enthusiasts

 

If I buy another, you got to come help me build it! I will definitely have two builds inside. The TR and i9. We could do a dual OC session at the same time, you got the Intel 7940X build and I got the TR 1950X. I'll even let you delid the 7940X, so you'll have a "small" advantage of 4.6 to 4.9.

EDIT: Actually, I want both you AND @Mr. Fox to come help me. Winter is coming for New England. That means amazing cold-to-your-core ambient temps coupled with a custom loop with 360 to 480 rads. No need for LN2, hahaha.

 

I think the RX 64 single card sku was sold out in "1" minute... literally.

Maybe have a dozen sites open to their carts, and click buy all at once, maybe one will go through, and if more succeed you can resell the rest

 

That is what I did on the initial release, but was looking for reviews before pulling the trigger. This time, no such hesitation!

I know. How do you like the HDD caddies? Or so many other aspects... I'm kinda thinking of pulling the trigger on the TaiChi tonight. If I do, I have enough to make it work until I build the custom loop. Plus, it will be an island of nickle (including GPU block and backplate) in a see of black (liquid also blue).

 

I am not one of those guys (reselling the parts) but I will do as you say and have multiple websites open at the same time. I look forward to testing it out in both my AMD and Intel systems.

 

I am impressed by the case. It is a very adaptive case (air or water) and that is a wonderful thing. Its size is perfect for me (I wish it was a little bigger so I could create a dual system in it) but it would put off a lot of the people I build rigs for. There is so much space, my imagination is running wild.

The caddies are flimsy but I won't give them a poor score based off the price I paid. The case is surprisingly light without components. The only thing I don't like is the how the mobo lays flat. It will be hard to showcase my custom water loop. I like this case so much, I plan on buying another.

 

Read the written article for "AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 Liquid Cooled, Vega 64 & Vega 56, 32 Game Benchmark" on TechSpot (1080p and 4k results):
https://www.techspot.com/review/1476-amd-radeon-vega-64/

Screen captures from the video:

Vega Power (not undervolted, he said future video / article will cover UV)

RX 56 5% faster than 1070FE

RX 64 air-cooled 5% slower than 1080FE

RX 64 water-cooled 4% faster than 1080FE

Hopefully in a few months to 6 months we will see AMD driver performance improvements like we saw with RX480=>RX580, and 12%+ improvements. There is no guarantee that will happen, so don't count on it

My Verdict on AMD Vega 64 (and 56)