BGA vs PGA continuation

I have the calibrated TN version with WVA so 0 backlight bleed. GT72 is too large and horrible battery for my web development sessions. I'm getting around 5-6hours with optimus enabled on p650, yeah the speakers were horrible till I install the Dell's Sound blaster profile (msi sounds horrible under linux, so DSP is important). Again not sure how you are comparing p650 to the gt72 which is twice as large (bezels body and weight), whole different league, I would prefer it over a p870dm though.

 

Got 5.5hours on my GT 72 when intel graphics is switched on.
No software on this planet can fix the garbage speakers in your notebook, sadly. Even with dell sound blasters profile the speakers are an absolute disaster for the price. Trust me, I tried, and I got amazing results out of some notebooks (signature for of the potential in P157SM).

yeah linux ruins the drivers and gives a poor audio control, so obviously speakers sound bad on linux.

Well then take a GT62 instead then.

Note: I'm used to MSI GT 72, Dell L702x and Toshiba Qosmio X775, so obviously my standard for good sound is lightyears away from most people. You could say MSI kinda ruined enjoying notebooks with inferior speakers for me. I can absolutely not live with a notebook that doesn't have compariable sound, it does differ from person to person tho, some won't care because they use headsets all the time, but I use my notebook as everything, including watching series on it, so bad screen + bad speakers are an absolute nono for me.

Also about the backlight bleed:


This is the backlight bleed they experienced at notebookcheck with your model, and the model I had my hands on (GTX 980M model) had similair backlight bleed. If you really have no backlight bleed, consider yourself lucky, but then again, as I said backlight bleed is basicially a 0 factor, unless you enjoy watching on a black screen in the dark for unknown reasons.

 

And most expensive. MSI has G and P series. Gigabyte and Asus, on the other hand, have at least twice as much. MSI advertises itself as "no. 1 in gaming", even the crappiest notebooks with MX150 are in the "G" series. So yes, every company has its gaming series, but not every company puts "gaming" sticker on everything crap in their portfolio.

 

Can you show me a G series notebook from MSI with MX150?

 

You can't really have that discussion without BGA vs LGA because the thing that people associate with Clevo is their LGA socket. The reason why I compare clevo to MSI for instance is to show where Clevo has cheaped out compared to MSI.

 

GV62 7RC

 

It's funny, "iconic" members are allowed to spam bga vs pga arguments, when a new member or outsider asks to focus on a main subject it finally gets filtered, If i have not replied to papusan these pga fanboysim posts would still be there.

 

No they are not allowed to SPAM arguments, threads need to be kept on topic. This is the proper place for those comments of PGA/BGA. Where seen that they do not belong they are removed no matter who posts them.

Moderators do not read ALL posts made by all users. When complained about or where they are caught, they then are addressed. Consistent inappropriate posting behavior has seen a few "Iconic" members permanently banned!

 

@Tmash its because trolls like danishblunt and people spreading false info like yourself that threads gotten too toxic.

you cant deny facts and proofs, as we all know MSI got some decent quality hardware they also do come with cancer firmware and BGA CPU that will limit u no matter what you do. same with clevo, but like mrfox already said, with clevo there are still ways to improve it, with bga its so much harder to the point of impossible to fix, hence we call it trash.

for regular computing, bga is definitely good enough but honestly we all want the best and want to brag about it, do you wanna brag about on stuff that you suck, should be the opoosite.

 

Contradicting, and why are you taking this personal? It *was* a clevo topic for suggestions, its not limited to the highest end non portable laptops only.
I have yet to see an efficient LGA laptop that lasts atleast 5 hours on battery paired with a 1070 during web browsing.
Ill omit from replying as I fear of trashing this thread further more.
Also if I was trolling why are you still bringing this up?
To mods @TANWare I don't mind deleting all my replies, especially the out of topic ones, if anyone wants to talk personally please use the PM, guess you might be new here @ole!!!
Edit: didn't see your rep on mobile, defiantly not new

 

@Tmash You want to see what happens when you try to disable Battery Boost (NOS) on MSI ??
(note: there is a way to avoid this happening if you disconnect the battery, and do a few OTHER things also...but if you don't do those 'Other' things, the same thing will happen):

This is called Cancer Firmware.



And don't get me into the VRM shutoff issue where if the system thinks you are drawing enough amps to avoid reaching 100C with their calibrations (ignoring that some users may use liquid metal), the system shuts off.

If I can find a way around that @BeastsForever.TheDragon please help me! Remember my promise to you if you do, I will not break it, ask @Papusan i keep my word!
I would be able to *GAME* at 4900 mhz and bench at 5 ghz without the VRM's shutting off.

Yes MSI admitted the VRM's can handle the load. But they intentionally refused to let them handle the load because "everyone on normal thermal paste would reach 100C no matter what at max fan speed".

 

get back on topic, we've explained power efficiency isnt because of BGA, in fact, BGA CPU has the worst silicon quality so it should be the worst efficiency out of BGA/PGA and LGA. if you take LGA and BGA cpu run side by side with same frequency from same generation, check the power usage and we'll have an answer.

(again, papusan has already proven on this point, donno why people still argue power efficiency with BGA).

 

If it makes people here feel any better there's PGA conversions for BGA CPU / Embedded CPU using a third party interposer.

Though the 4980HQ has 2MB less cache compared to the 4900MQ, maybe the Iris Pro iGPU will make up for it: https://world.taobao.com/item/528507840070.htm

The issue with haswell's retarded FIVR limits usage to very specific notebooks that can actually take the heat. And many manufacturers either go down the quality drain (AW Ranger/Viking) or just straight up switch to BGA (MSi, ASSus republic of shills) so not many quality options to put this in.


Search term

Code:

BGA轉PGA

 

Intel Core i7-4980HQ was the utter High end for Haswell BGA gen. And Intel Core i7-4900MQ wasn't even the high end for PGA. It was the i7-4930/4940Mx.

And same crippled for Broadwell BGA

 

MX is always special, higher than MQ in terms of hierarchy.

 

I know, but both PGA chips come with normal Cashe level.

 

It's just to show that the HQ chips are retarded and don't deserve extra cache.

 

Indeed. They deserve the same fate as other BGA processors: a one-way ticket to hell.

 

Yeah, Would never come to heaven

 

It seems this thread is being trolled in reverse from the other one. Please all stop this and keep on topic.

 

@tmash @Danishblunt this is what happens when you get BGA

https://wccftech.com/intels-core-i9...re-cpu-benchmarks-leaked-from-lenovo-laptops/

8950hk throttling hardcore getting less performance. major limiting factor will always be bios from oem/odm and finally the size of physical heatsink. gonna get crippled, less performance than clevo's desktop chip in a laptop.

 

My always precise analysis!!

 

This is what happens when you're full of crap.
The BGA chip doens't throttle because of the chip, but because Lenovo has insuffcient cooling or power delivery, maybe even both.

Again proving my point, BGA or LGA, if the power is to much to handle for the cooling/power then don't bother building it into a notebook while turning it into a furnace.
End of story.

 

that is correct, it throttle because of lenovo. and when you get BGA chip in a laptop thats what you'll get unless you by the super high end and spend 3000-4000+. because intel list them as 45w, oem/odm will purposely restrict them to those value. not to mention at 45w you'll need an extremely good chip to get some decent performance, which is the opposite of BGA, worst of the worst silicon resides in it.

this it just further shows that you pay more for BGA, and get less performance, for 99.99999% of bga turd books, which also includes your laptop.

 

In the end backliht bleeding isn't anything you really see anyways who cares.

And yes, clevo subwoforum is full of peple who rave about the theoretical performance while doing their 95c benchmarks. Out of the box, no clevo will ever not throttle. Yes you pay a grand premium for barely functioning notebook, which needs to be tweaked to just be a furnace that doesn't throttle, while having no difference in real life scenarios, actually due to power management, it seems the performance in gaming gets rekt by BGA MSI notebooks, go figure. Has yet to be proven, but I couldn't find a single clevo user that was willing to do the actual benchmark, again go figure.

 

I doubt that blacklight bleed is possible from the manufacturer tho :'D I think that kind of bleed is only happening when using it a lot and it's getting damaged over time.

I don't want my notebook to be a furnace because It will kill VRMs at some point and paying for a new board is way to pricey, I'd rather have 5% less performance and enjoy it for years to come.

 

Yes, P870 DM series throttled harder than MSI jokebooks without Prema Bios, actually. I forgot if there was a CPU current restriction, or if it was a combination of CPU and GPU load.

The TM series allow alot more power but still throttle.

 

I didn't think about it until now, but I suppose the fact it never bothered me to lug around the ole x7200 through airports, train stations, and walking in metro areas for customer visits or trade shows is probably why making the jump to my 'Mighty Mini' hasn't bothered me in the slightest.

My colleagues usually seem to have a problem with me shoving it in a duffel bag, and they aren't even the ones carrying it. However, once I power it up, that seems to go by the wayside. TBH, there must be some universal truth here, as I also encountered behavior with both the D900F and x7200 too.

 

Monitors are becoming less and less of a problem. In the house, I can HDMI to almost any TV or to the monitors on my home desk. Use a wireless kb/mouse when moving room to room. I have the same setup in my office at work, but don't move around as much. I haven't done too many customer visits lately, but would have to bring smaller, travel KB/mouse to a site. In regards to displays, it seems there's always an extra LCD available here or there, or I guess I could work that out in advance if needed.

Now, I don't bring the Mighty Mini to coffee houses or other public places. But not sure why I wouldn't bring nothing more than a small tablet if I did frequent them.

 

Hey guys. 3 days ago I bought GT75. Yesterday I found out that it has soldered CPU. I didn't expect that, because even my GT60 has PGA.

Should I cry in the corner or is it still good laptop?

 

That depends on your definition of good. Sorry that happened to you. What a horrible discovery. Can you return it for a refund? That is what I would do. I don't know if I would cry in a corner, but I would definitely be seriously pissed off about it and unwilling to keep it.

 

I think I can return it within 7 days (3 days left), but I don't think I have an alternative. As I can see, all laptops now have BGA, and there's no Clevo where I live now, and even if I buy it from another country - it will be less practical than just use BGA and ditch it after 3 years when CPU will be obsolete.

Only alternative is desktop, but it will cost almost the same (slightly less with just slightly higher specs) and even though I've been a desktop user since Intel 286, I kind of got used to a laptop in 5 years... sometimes you can move it, sometimes there's no power in da house, but you don't care (for couple of hours at least)...
As you can see, I just talking myself into keeping it, because it's convenient and it's already here...

My main concern is that I won't be able to upgrade it, BUT tbh I can't really upgrade my 3630QM either. I ordered 3840QM and it will arrive next week, but then I realized that those +13% won't improve my 30fps in CPU demanding games - and I bought GT75... little did I know that it's BGABOOK which I always was making fun of.....

 

I know but now it's different times. Everything is welded on means back to desktop or buy a Clevo LGA/MXM model. There ain't any other options. None!! Or just buy a very cheap Jokebook and continue use a desktop.

 

Since this thread got necro'ed, I'll just put in my $.02.

I have no problem with BGA systems if they are well-designed and don't overcharge. Well-designed meaning they don't compromise on cooling, RAM, storage, I/O, or even go as far as to solder RAM/storage to the board, to chase the thinnest lightest form factor possible.

For users who need decent, but not necessarily TOTL, performance as well as portability in terms of not only size/weight but also battery life (Optimus), BGA systems are the only option for them which tick all the boxes.

My first Clevo, the P650SG, was IMO the definition of a well-designed BGA notebook. I still have a soft spot for that design. That's why it's a headscratcher to me that Clevo decided to can the entire P6x line and replace it with the strictly inferior P95x and PA7x lines.

These days though, pretty much all BGA models are overpriced and over compromised.

 

my thoughts;

A. waste of money as they aren't upgradable, thus the future proofing is limited.
B. overpriced or priced the same as upgradable laptops, when really, they should be less.
C. if a part goes faulty you have no choice to replace the motherboard or whole laptop which means more money wasted.

Always buy a laptop with at socketed cpu and mxm gpu.

Don't go for anything less, unless you don't need a desktop replacement. If that is the case just get a laptop with full hd screen and decent cpu, ignore dedicated gfx and find something reasonably priced, if you don't need it for gaming, don't look for expensive laptops.