BLACK LIST. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits are locked out due latest Win Update/Bios

It is absolute madness and the idiot OEMs and retarded imbeciles at Micro$lop molesting computers without the express consent of the people that own them is pure evil. Their companies deserve to die financially for it. They should cease to exist as companies.

 

Acer Predator Helios 300 (i7-9750H) added to The Blacklist on first page http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1122#post-11000131

 

Add HP Probook 440 G5 as well. My office laptop Although I had no trouble downgrading the BIOS and got my undervolt back. So I guess HP has crippled their entire ultrabook portfolio with the patch.

 

And it is not like most of the trash they are ruining was blistering fast or cool running before. It is probably somewhat advantageous and timely that people have grown used to the idea of everything running too hot and thermal throttling. Malfunction is already expected, but now it is exacerbated by loss of autonomy and ownership decision-making rights.

 

Thanks. +rep

The possibility to downgrading BIOS and get back undervolt doesn't change the fact that the ODM/OEM destroy own product with intent (they don't let you get options - "choose security vs.needed options for voltage adjustment in bios/3rd part software"). HP Failed hard.

HP Probook 440 G5 added to the list of shame!

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5

 

Fully agree. Even after undervolting, the 440 G5 can't keep the CPU from running at 100C. Once I push the power limits up from 15W to 25-30W using throttlestop, it gets terribly hot. At least undervolting helps bring the frequencies to a respectable level at 15W PL1.

Thanks for the rep. I don't know why the OEMs are doing this. Remember, back in the year there was a post by Umar @ Alienware/Dell about how undervolting won't be covered under warranty. I guess the higher management is filled with bunch of fools who think they are gods and yet they don't know much about tech, and use their authority to force their ideologies on their respective product design teams.

What this also means is that, the 10th Gen Intel CPUs will also come plundered with the patch from the factory. Which means without undervolting, the laptops with poor cooling solutions (especially Alienware) will now be plagued with complaints. Many of these units get away only because of undervolting. Now I think this is another hit Intel is going to take versus AMD. With no undervolting in place, the 9750H on my Asus Scar 3 consumes in excess of 100W in Cinebench R20, and even when it was brand new with zero core temperature differentials, the CPU used to hit 93-94C and start throttling in a matter of around 30 seconds or so (only after undervolting it, the wattage came down to 70W at much better 75-80C temps). And I fear that will be even worse with 10th Gen as they're simply pushing the clocks without any architecture improvements.

But that was undervolted by -125mV out of the box isn't it? So how come Acer is against undervolting all of a sudden? Thought they wouldn't show this stupidity like others.

 

-125mV out of the box is the new default. They can add whatever they want in bios. The owner should be damn happy they did. Imagine the trash without the factory undervolt and now with the Plundervolt fix Put an undervolt as default voltage is the cheap fix instead for making good enough cooling that is able to handle the heat.

 

Oh so that -125 is the new 0 . Luckily Asus hasn't rolled out anything plundervolty (touchwood), and wish they don't do any such thing in the near future as well.

 

https://www.dell.com/support/home/d...w&oscode=wt64a&productcode=xps-15-7590-laptop

- Firmware updates to address the Intel Security Advisories INTEL-SA-00289 (CVE-2019-11157) and INTEL-SA-00317 (CVE-2019-14607).

@Papusan

 

Thanks. +5 reps Dell XPS 15 7590 added into the list of shame!

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
7) Dell XPS 15 7590

 

Hard to believe. What's the rationale for the crusade against undervolting? Umar K.'s statement that it won't be covered by warranty would be clear evidence he is a proper tool, since UV must have saved Dell from countless returns as well as directly and indirectly overheating-related support tickets/repairs.

The arrival of AMD Renoir could provide some respite if this disease spreads further.

 

The Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 can be added to this list. Terrible pity, because the Precisions (especially the 7740) are powerful as hell, and allow the 9980HK to properly hit 5 GHz.

Let's hope the next generation moves to AMD Renoir.

 

But why on earth would they prevent undervolting when their cooling solution can't even handle stock speeds without thermal throttling?

How could undervolting affect related components? what components?

 

Just wanted to add for owners of the Dell laptops, that Dell (the crappy outsourced company who makes the bios updates) mostly messed up, as usual, how could it be different?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fxfcos/how_to_get_undervolting_back_after_g3/

Seems that if you update to the latest Dell bioses which include the deactivation of undervolt for INTEL-SA-00289 mitigations, that doing a bios load factory settings (load default wont work just factory settings) gives back undervolt (for the current bios, could be fixed in the next one of course).

This suggests to me, that moron Dell devs forgot to include the undervolt_off flag in the bios factory settings config. What other explanation would it be. There is no option visible to normal users in the Dell bios to turn on/off undervolt obviously.

 

@Spartan

Believe me, Dell's higher management wouldn't have an idea of what undervolt is. Otherwise, not only would they allow us to undervolt, they would have simply undervolted the laptops from the factory, though this is all speculation based on Dell's behaviour and their tendency to cheap out on cooling and stuff. Remember, engineers are always slaves to their management - even though engineers know what is right, they have to do what their bosses want, as someone already said, boss is always right.

Management only thinks in numbers - in profits. Maybe they tend to think factory liquid metal'd laptops are not a sustainable model (although Asus is now shipping their ROG laptops liquid metal'd from the factory, but still have to see how much their stuff improves), given how unaware most of the buyers are about these nitty gritty things. When Dell's onsite technicians don't even know how to check CPU temperatures using a third party tool and ask you to go to BIOS instead to check temps, terming softwares like Throttlestop 'inaccurate', what do you expect?

@etern4l They'll get to know the consequences soon. At least we guys are not interested in their 10th Gen future models which are destined to be crippled from the factory with the plundervolt, pushing even higher frequencies without the undervolting ability. Good luck to them, as far as handling the RMA numbers is concerned . Though quite funny to see the way in which Intel is increasing stock clocks seems deliberate overclocking at this point, it doesn't even feel like those are factory clocks on laptops. Intel managed to mint another year of free money out of its 14nm Skylake by simply overclocking their chips to the point where the user will even dream of running it at its full stock potential, given crappy cooling design of most laptops.

I just asked Mr. Umar about it on twitter. Here you go: https://twitter.com/lakshay2015/status/1249319952395333633. Everyone can feel free to question his expertise in his domain, and ask the rationale behind their decision to totally take undervolting away. At least a choice can be provided for tech savvy users, as after all most of the buyers of these expensive machines are tech savvy in the first place. I'm curious to see his reply - if at all he replies. In case he chooses to dodge the question, you all are invited to the party here on my twitter post to let him know the difference between good and bad.

 

This looks promising for the Dell XPS 7590 1.6.0 Bios: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fzv599/xps_7590_160_uefi_unlock_undervolting_and_remove/

 

"The UEFI variables encoding for Overclocking Lock and CFG Lock are 0x789 and 0x6ED respectively."

Can that overclocking unlock be used on say the Intel 7700HQ which was locked down from the factory by Intel? Or is that Overclocking lock is it just a toy for laptop vendors to cripple CPUs?

 

That has absolutely nothing to do with the 7700HQ.
Overclocking lock being disabled means you can overclock via the overclocking performance menu in the unlocked BIOS.
It will not help you on a HQ Processor, which is hardware multiplier locked upwards to 3.4 ghz on all cores.

CFG lock being disabled allows you to change the C-state limit while in OS.

 

FYI that reddit post got updated with a much simpler solution -

 

He guys, Umar has just replied to my post about the undervolting being taken away. He says "I am not aware of any undervolting ability being taken away. Looking at my system here I can still UV my system with XTU. Can I get more info?". Here's the link to his tweet: https://twitter.com/aw_umar/status/1249741619299061761

 

so it's an hidden settings in bios on Dell laptop ? in that case we just need to know which nvram value to edit and which value to use.
I know that for Dell ivy bridge and haswell (not sure about sandy bridge) you can edit nvram value thanks to a bootable usb key, the only issue is that you need to generate an "IFR file" for your bios, I don't know if you still can make it on newer Dell laptop, I never tried.

edit : well that's exactly what the reddit post shared before is doing, very easy stuff when you have the "magic file" that list all available bios option

 

@TheQuentincc I would be more interested in knowing, what other options are hidden but configurable in the Dell bios. Someone should make a tool for that. Or is there maybe a way to unhide all options so you configure them via the bios GUI? XMP profiles, fan control, sleep functions ect.

 

You need to extract the bios, then use UEFItool as the reddit post (I was not aware about this before) or make an IFR file if it's still working, more info here :
techinferno.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6438-guide-dell-e6530-cpu-tdpmulti-unlocking/
As for making a tool for that, I don't think it's very worth it, extracting the bios need to run a python, which is pretty easy, then for making a full IFR file, you should follow the link above.
As for hidden settings don't expect a bios to same level as an Asus Zxxx desktop motherboard, I don't think it's worth the time of making these available in GUI, it's very quick and easy with the method linked above

 

Could you please tweet back to Umar and post the link below. Say to him that Dell is on the way being world famous for killing it's own brand.
https://www.ultrabookreview.com/370...g-on-their-laptops-heres-how-to-re-enable-it/

Edit. +5 reps added.

https://twitter.com/lakshay2015/status/1251557434256023552?s=20

 

Done. Let's see what he says. Don't know why he's not much aware of it, but anyway he'll be finding out soon now.

 

I appreciate the passion in this thread greatly.

I would love to switch (back) to linux, but it's just not functional for gaming/eGPUs and battery life the point where I could just use it instead of fighting to get every app to work.

I would switch back to Apple and use a VM for work if they weren't already even worse with their hardware, having soldered everything and locking undervolts (though at least they are doing factory undervolting)

 

Umar is asking for a G series laptop which has this undervolting disabled. I'm gonna reply "the entire G series is known to be plundervolted".

Edit: I just replied there. See if there's anything to be added. Let me know.

 

Should be enough. Maybe ask him when we can see Intel vulnerability fixes for etc <Plundervolt> for the whole Alienware lineup. Both current and older models. Because Dell have already patched XPS and the G series models.

 

Is it not possible to opt out from these fixes atm? Or are they being pushed as obligatory updates.

 

Via bios updates or with help from Windows update servers. On top it will come microcode updates from Win update as patches when Intel have them ready for Microsoft.

 

LTSC is just a gift that keeps on giving against all of these nasty updates.

 

Dell is the bell sheep regarding pushing out bios updates via Microsoft. Almost as bed partners. Often new bios versions you can't find on their own download page at Dell. They being posted on own servers several days/week after Microsoft have done it's deal.

 

Hi,
After lot of research, I found a simple way to undervolt my laptop with the last BIOS update. I was able to unlock the voltage settings, without any downgrading.
It works for my G5 5590, may work for the G7 7590, and probably on the previous version also! Let me know if this procedure work for you too!
!! Before any manipulation save all your data !!
- First if you use bitlocker, be sure to suspend the protection of your SSD/HDD, and save the recovery key!
- Go to the BIOS setting by pressing F2 on boot up
- Reset the parameters to "Factory" ( not "Default" )
- Reinstall ThrottleStop or XTU
- Now you can change your voltage parameters through ThrottleStop or Intel XTU!

BIOS: 1.12.0 Feb 2020
Intel microcode: 0xCA Feb 2020

 

Dell Alienware m15 & m17 added into the list of shame!

Alienware m17 & m15 forced bios update to 2.4.1
So after purchasing razer, then returning it, and thinking ill go with Dell alienware instead, i'm left to regret my choice, everything was running fine, and being an experienced gamer specifically with gaming laptops, and have over the past 7 years resorted to under-volting the CPU temperatures using XTU & throttlestop, only to recently realize that i cannot access this feature anymore.

Can't use this laptop in it's current state, and i'm slowly regretting my decision to go with Dell Alienware as Razer are now undervolting their gaming laptop by -100 out of the factory. 'That's like choosing between the plague and cholera'

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15 & m17

You know Dell will use this info for all it's worth? Post it in Dell's own tech forum will only help the engineers doing a better job next time.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...gtx-1080-upgrade.814711/page-46#post-10734553

 

If I understand correctly, at least Dell, try to push their bios update throught windows ? so to prevent such update, it would be a good idea to force the write protect of the eeprom to be active (with hardware modification) all the anytime ?

 

I'm not so sure you can disable Firmware Capsule updates that prevents BIOS updates through Windows Update for all Dellbooks. There are even those with it disbled, but still got unwanted firmware updates. And Dell have locked out the possibility that you are able to tampering with firmware. Even hardware modification won't work. You can't easly bypass Dell's PCH/BootGuard Cancer.

https://firmwaresecurity.com/2015/08/12/intel-boot-guard/

 

Reddit, huh? No reports in our own user lounge. I'm on 2.4.1 BIOS, was able to downgrade to 2.4.0 with no issues, I'm back on 2.4.1, TS works. I'm on Win 10 Pro, a year old version.

Dell GIGAHATE continues

 

All models regardless of brand will be posted in the thread as long I see mentioned behaviour. If you look into the OP post, you''ll also see other brands models in there. Let this be crystal clear!

For the records... Not all brand go the same route... Dell's PCH/BootGuard Cancer

Razer and MSi etc... You can unlock firmware and play with ram (but this doesn't mean I will recommend them). With Dell, you're stuck with what they gave you.

 

Yes you're right, I modified my post on they forum. I found this trick on they forum too.. Hope the engineers be like customer service, and do not care about complain on the forum.

 

You can repost any random Reddit stuff you want, but surely data quality is a concern. The original report missed a lot of detail, and is at odds with my own experience for example. Perhaps Windows version is a factor. Could also just be a case of fake news or PBUAK.

 

I don't know, but if you lose undervolting without a notice... Whatever OS, Win updates or forced firmware upgrades in any shape or form you have to take this seriously. This is not normal behaviour from any Windows version (Dell's G series, XPS and Aw show same behaviour). One thing for sure... Dell added in patch to address the Intel Security Advisories INTEL-SA-00289 (CVE-2019-11157) for mentioned models. How Windows handle this afterwards I don't know.

What's amusing... Dell use older models as guinea pig. The newest AW models have still not got firmware updates to adress all the Intel security flaws (included Plundervolt).

 

This is like reading an obituary. RIP little notebooks.

 

For now it seems to be nothing more than a little Reddit BS, but if it actually comes to this, then RIP indeed. Performance would be down quite a bit.

 

That was my post actually, and i've since deleted because i did not get any useful response and some of it turned into private messages of folks trying to buy the laptop gheez...

Anyhow, i have downgraded the Bios all the way to 2.0.4 and unfortunately that's where the downgrades stop, Dell locks further downgrading and as it stands, i'm still unable to undervolt neither with Throttlestop or with XTU

In Intel Xtu the undervolting option is completely greyed out, and you can no longer edit
In Throttlestop you can fiddle with the undervolt parameters but it does not take any effect

As you can see below

 

You used to undervolt with this BIOS version (2.0.4)? If that is the case, try to reset the BIOSs parameters to factory or default.

 

Can you post pict of Microcode version in both HWiNFO and ThrottleStop FIVR windows?

Same for you. Use Hwinfo64

 

Well, again, I can UV with 2.4.1. I tested and posted results in the m15 lounge. Something else is going on here. I'm pretty busy at the moment but hopefully will get a chance to have another look over the weekend.

Edit: I do have this additional TS library which enables power control.

 

Yes i just purchased this laptop less than 20 days ago, the stock Bios was 1.6.4, on that bios version things were working fine, it was only after the recent update which was 2.4.1 i tried to go back directly to 1.6.2 but it refused so i ended up going down from 2.4.1 to see where the downgrade ends and it allowed me to downgrade to 2.2.1 and then to 2.1.1 and then to 2.0.4 and again tried to go below that it wasn't possible

 

can someone provide me one of these "cancer" bios.exe from Dell ?