BLACK LIST. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits are locked out due latest Win Update/Bios

https://www.dell.com/support/home/u...oscode=wt64a&productcode=alienware-m15-laptop

 

What's your Windows version? I'm still on 1809.

uCA=CA, I don't have the zero offsets issue in TS, and actually benchmarked to confirm this - as you may recall from the m15 lounge. CPU stepping U0, it case it matters.

 

1809 as well,

link to winver screenshot

https://i.ibb.co/ZHbfXJF/Untitled-1.png

 

Did you install the TS power control plug in?

 

With what Bios version? @clarity17 have 0xAA with v2.0.4


Microsoft still haven't the newer uCode from Intel for Plundervolt.

 

Of course 2.4.1....

 

but you can directly control overclocking/voltage from bios even if "plundervolt updated bios" is installed, right ?

 

Same Cpu and same machine but different uCode. This doesn't smell well. And Microsoft do not have access to latest uCode from Intel. You can't get something nasty from M$ Update, as long they don't have access to it.

Depends on how the ODM implement the fixes. Intel® SGX need to be disabled to be able to adjust Voltage. And this only if the ODM have done it right.

See link in OP Protecting your Intel CPU from Plundervolt attacks can ruin your overclock/undervolt

 

No i don't, can you explain, perhaps it's the missing link in all this

I'm trying to knock all the doors until one eventually opens

 

On FIVR you have this button unlock power limits. For it to work you need to drop a DLL in TS folder. Don't remember whihh one, I got mine from @Vasudev

 

@Papusan Well the uCode would be different since he is on 2.0.4 BIOS?

 

2.0.4 was a minor bios upgrade. And no Intel fixes was added over 1.6.2 which had x96. I can't tell for sure. Often will microcodes injected follow up or downgrades. Others with 2.0.4 need to confirm what they have. Same also for those running 2.1.1

 

The point is that 2.0.4->2.4.1 upgrade would be significant? Also, he claims he cannot UV even after downgrading to BIOS version which didn't cause any UV issues before. How could that be? Something else might be at work here...

 

Have you already done a load defaults or reset to default values on the BIOS itself and then test again if the undervolt works?

 

Which button, kindly post screenshot

Yes, F2, load optimized defaults or is there a different method ?

 

You don't have the library. Look at your own FIVR screenshot, on the right:

Disable and Unlock Power Limits [ Install ].

It's just a shot from the hip, since that has to do with power limits not UV.

 

Are you referring to a Dell laptop? Load optimized defaults wont work, as said countless times before, you need to chose the OTHER option, load factory defaults.

Isnt the XPS 15 7590 latest model? The 9570 will follow in the next days (it's a bit late mostly because of Coronavirus), and then in 2-3 months the 9560. It was like that before the past bios updates.

Whats more disgusting about this entire Plundervolt panic is, that Plundervolt just "begins to work" at crazy undervolt offsets, something like -300 to -400mV, and not the usual -100mV you use, which are kinda 99.9999% safe to use and dont trigger Plundervolt. The CPU kinda needs to crash to be exposed to Plundervolt. If you have a working undervolt offset, you dont have Plundervolt. Plus, you need a program (with admin rights) running on the laptop which adjusts the undervoltings. You cant do that obviously via a browser/JS.

 

Can kindly explain how i can access load factory defaults option..

Are you referring to the "reset to factory option" found in the advanced boot options menu?

 

bios, restore settings, factory settings...

 

There

I can't for the life of me find this option, the only option i can see in Bios is load optimized defaults...

Which bios menu did you access, F2 or F12 and how exactly do i find this settings

I apologize for giving you a hard time with this, but you'd be doing me a solid if i can solve these scorching hot tempertures, it's completely ruined my experience with buying a "new gaming laptop"

 

@clarity17 what Dell laptop do you have, maybe it is too old or hasnt the option for it. G series and XPS have the option for it. What do you mean which bios option F2 or F12... you first enter bios first. And then load defaults and chose factory.

 

Dell AW m15

 

it's from 2019, alienware m17 8750h

After some serious digging, in the boot menu, i found it

Restore device to factory setting, is part of alienware support assist recovery, and that basically wipes the laptop clean to it's stage 0 state, or atleast thats what i understood.

Is this the setting that is suggested?

Damn these forced windows/intel bios microcoded updates, and Dell seriously wtf?

 

No, I was speaking about the bios factory settings, not laptop factory recovery... for Dell it is:

F12





BIOS.

If the Alienware bios doesnt have this option, well... you need to downgrade the bios then, and this trick doesnt work for Alienware laptops.

Edit: Seems the Alienware bios dont have this option:

 

RW Driver? https://mega.nz/file/CNNA0SoC#Z2Xi2icwX4d4jzW016dKnKGhVglWmSSPpgiRU7VCG6g

 

I wonder if its time to add another Dell-book into the shame list...

Alienware 15r3 unable to undervolt after downloading BIOS 1.9.0

 

Yes and alienware m17 to the shame list, what an unfortunate turn of events

I'm down to my last dice throw, Factory state reset from the image stored in Alienware bootup menu, and hope that the image would send me below the 2.0.4 Bios i'm currently unable to downgrade from manually and perhaps land at the same bios version that came with the laptop when undervolting worked, if that fails.. it would be a tough pill to swallow

And certainly the last experience with "gaming" laptops

 

What's wrong UV now exactly?

 

Plundervolt:
https://plundervolt.com/

Allows to extract secret data from the SGX "secure" enclave by playing with voltages, so Intel response to fix it was to just nuke undervolting all together via micro-code updates and Dell is being extra dumb with forcing BIOS updates and locking bios downgrading.

 

Yes undervolt does not work, i tried every method under the sun, even the above with throttle stop, there is no need to deny reality further, Dell really messed up on this one, and there not is way to undervolt under the recent Bios updates, and the laptop won't allow me to downgrade below that bios version..so i'm just left with the factory reset option to see if that will change anything.

I'm not talking about the factory reset bios settings, cause that option doesn't exist in this laptop, so erasing the laptop through the secret boot menu and reseting to factory state through the backed up image, is my last resort, i'm just too lazy to do it now, even though my laptop is cooking and i'm unable to play any game within one month of buying the damn laptop

 

more people are reporting the annoying development, but i see those using Dell G7 line have the reset factory bios setting, which don't exist in alienware.

https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/G7-7590-Undervolting/m-p/7512317#M75952

 

Is it m17 R1, as the BIOS numbering would suggest? Strange. I'm on BIOS 2.4.1 and I'm undervolting my m15 R1 like a boss lol. I wonder if there is SGX setting in the BIOS that I have disabled - will check later.

 

Here is a new one from ‎04-30-2020 with m15 R1, can't undervolt And the help from Dell support is nothing more than a huge Joke.

 

I don't use XTU.

 

I'm using the Insider Slow Ring and I'm still able to undervolt my Gram with Throttlestop.

 

I'm a soon to be new owner of an M17 R1 and XTU/Throttlestop are mainstays of owning these laptops. So, I've done some digging around and came across this Dell forum post:

https://www.dell.com/community/Alienware/m15-downgrade-from-BIOS-2-0-4/td-p/7309791

I've never heard of rolling back BIOS via a method like this and it was apparently provided by admins at Dell. I hope it helps you get back to 1.6.4, and I'm interested as well, seeing it as a future action I could be taking. Please let me know how it turns out.

 

Well without undervolt, temps will be worse than before. Especially people with i9 and HK CPU, they really can't overclock it anymore. I hope they have a solution for this.

 

You can undervolt if you can enable the "XTU Interrface" option in an unlocked BIOS. No idea if Throttlestop will work or not, though.

 

Forget unlocked bios in the newer Alienwares http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-14#post-11005876

https://firmwaresecurity.com/2015/08/12/intel-boot-guard/

 

I'll detail my full experience, so you can have better oversight on your choice

i'll be objective and fair, me buying the m17 was result of months long digging, and my last finalists were Razer 17 and Alienware m17 r1 and m17 r2 i read all the warnings about razer but i had to go through the fire myself to learn, so i found a good deal on an out of box Razer 17 4k edition from a reseller and had a 3 day windows to return in-case you run into errors.

I did that, and whilst the razer 17 is a nice looking laptop, everything else is complete let down, starting from the horrific color calibration and it is a big disappointment, the color accuracy is completely off the mark, and i should have taken the advice of one youtuber named Andrey Lebrov but i ignored his frustrating experience with Razer and the overly saturated colors.

While the temperatures where great, considering razer "undervolts"their laptops by -100 out of the factory, but i soon ran into a second problem while playing games in the form of ghosting and jitters..i tried every method there is to eliminate these jitters to no avail, from locking FPS to using Riva Tuner, nothing worked!, third day i got lucky, while trying to modify reinstall the graphics drivers and needed a restart laptop went into BSD loop and crashed, called the vendor and sent that junk machine packing..

So the choice was between m17 R1 and R2, ofcourse the fact the Ram sticks on the m17 R2 are soldered and can't be upgraded and the motherboard is inverted which makes repasting at home an extreme effort, i opted for a brand new m17 r1.

The laptop checked all the marks for me, colors were accurate, no ghosting or jitters while playing intensive games and the lowest GPU temperatures on laptop graphics card i've ever owned, whilst i was suspect of the performance of Nvidia's Max-q line-up the trade off in performance against temperatures was worth it, RTX 2080 Max-q and GPU doesn't heat beyond 65C!!..

And now to the rough part, so as was highlighted by many youtube reviews which noted that the alienware m17 throttles and the only way to eliminate that problem was to undervolt, and they were correct, the laptop throttles when playing games and in loading games to 100c, but the tempertures go down to 78-90 soon after, and ENTER undervolt by -140 and the laptop never throttled again and was a joy to use.

Then came the intrusive windows updates, and you should know that with Windows Home you can't permanently disable windows update, regards of all the loopholes you opt to employ disabling services, editing registry, i dunno why windows had to do this to their home edition, but the updates restart it self forcibly and in one of the updates, it microcoded their update right into the bios and upgraded the bios from version 1.6.4 to 2.1.4 and all hell broke loose, from bad tempertures, to the fans overworking randomly to extreme throttles..

And that's where i am now, i did a repaste yesterday to see if that matters, it still throttles but not towards the 100C more around 90C, and i'm waiting to see if there is any new way out of this mess..I hate windows updates with a passion

 

I saw this post, and i tried it when i was on 2.1.4 it didn't work, but perhaps now that im in the exact same bios version as that user, ill give it another go and see if it could solve this crisis.

If you want to get the same laptop, the only advice i can give you is, right out the gates, upgrade to Windows Professional, and disable all windows updates using the services app and through registry and i reckon it would be good from there on.

And the choice to go between the newer m17 r2 or m17 2019, was immediately justified, as i was always low on ram and upgraded to 32 yesterday, what a difference that makes, colossal error by Dell on that front to solder rams into motherboard and negate upgrading in a "gaming laptop

 

What do you mean by "throttles towards 90C"? These CPUs have temp throttle point set at 100C so there is no thermal throttling at 90C. BTW to mention the obvious, the laptop needs to be in a cooler for any heavy lifting.

 

"

The throttling under stress is immediate, high spikes in voltage up to 100C, while in stress test or whilst playing games, that issue was completely resolved when i was able to under volt using XTU prior to this Plundervolt security, tempertures back then didn't reach anywhere above 85C...i'll knock on the remaining doors and see which can send me back to the factory Bios version

I just read the article, and that seems to be the Dooms day scenario for user control on these dreaded "gaming laptops"

unsure how they will be able to sustain these limitations over time, when gaming laptops are currently the cool looking kid on the block and people are altering their past perceptions on gaming intensively on the go on a laptop as oppose to the more capable and stationary PC's

 

What do you mean by "high spikes in voltage up to 100C"? Voltage is measured in Volts. Is the laptop running on a good cooler? It makes a huge difference for these laptops.

Forget XTU. I'm on the latest 2.4.1 BIOS and ThrottleStop, which is a far better tool, is working fine.

 

I'm actually debating on going full Linux on this laptop. I dual booted my 15R3 for a while but found enough utility in Windows only after upgrading to Pro. If I keep it Windows, Redmond access will be limited and on my terms.

I have no idea why Dell decided to go this route. The R2 is a definite step backward, in my opinion. Why any manufacturer would sell a "premium" laptop with this degree of lockdown on upgradeability baffles the mind. This isn't Apple, we don't want a curated electronic experience, we want a killer laptop that reflects the purchase price in performance and future-proofing. Honestly, the thermal issues with the 9th gen Intel chips don't bother me because I know how to mitigate that problem. As much as other users here decry that engineering issue, I recognize that it isn't easy building thin and light and cool. Granted, Dell should do these tweaks prior to shipping (though I believe there would be a crowd that would complain about CPUs being "gimped" out of the factory due to poor or dated design), but that is a topic for another conversation. In summary, Alienware needs to think carefully about its brand and who buys their products before making another mistake like the R2 iteration.

I'm upgrading immediately to 32GB. I've got the sticks waiting on my desk for the delivery later today! Good luck with your XTU/Throttlestop issue. I hope that solution works for you as I'm fearful what BIOS version my laptop shipped with. Hopefully, it's been sitting in a warehouse somewhere and is still on a version that gives me control over what I purchased. I believe in order to roll back, a prior version must have been installed on it. If it comes with 2.4.1, I believe this may be a return.

 

For the last time: there are no major issues with BIOS 2.4.1 per se. All the security fixes resulted in a 2-3% perf hit in CB20, that's all.

 

Which is why I said it might be a return (yes, "may" can indicate certainty, but to be clear, if there are no problems with the laptop, of course I'm keeping it). I think it's been fairly well established that BIOS ver. 2.4.1 includes the Plundervolt mitigation for INTEL-SA-00289, which may disable user ability to undervolt. Your mileage may vary as you don't appear to have been affected by this. You've also pointed out that this BIOS version, in addition to microcode updates, may be the root of the problem, which is entirely possible.

I can't say for certain as we don't have @clarity17 laptop on hand to do a deeper dive into what exactly is going on. What we can do is give that user the benefit of doubt that they are competent in troubleshooting and have looked at that as a part of trying to resolve their issue. However, what we do know is that other users have reported that after rolling back from 2.4.1, undervolt capability returns.

Trust me, I intend to investigate this thoroughly when my laptop arrives. It represents a substantial investment, I have an interest in making sure it lasts.

 

I dunno how that is, when i've just had to downgrade from that version because it didn't work, whether its because the security update was rolled through windows updates and microcoded into the Bios as the case with me, perhaps in your case you did not have the same security fix update installed microcoded into your bios who knows why i blocked from undervolting whilst you are able..

Something isn't matching between my experience and yours, for whatever it's worth you're lucky i guess lol

 

@clarity17 Have you looked at this thread?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ny-alienware-to-locked-lower-versions.829542/

 

I'll look into it, thanks for the find.

Yeah upon further inspection i remember coming across this thread and if you go through the pages, you will see some horror stories of users wrecking their CPU and having to replace it using that method, whatever the error they've committed whilst following the instructions accurately or perhaps going too deep into bios downgrade territory..

i don't think i'm willing to take such risks