BLACK LIST. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits are locked out due latest Win Update/Bios

The reference was not to the Redmond Mafia, but the application is fitting. It is exactly what they do. Same goes for the Cupertino Clown Possee.

Some never do what is right or proper. They intentionally do the opposite and find delight in doing wrong because they are corrupt and reprobate. Others simply lack the mental capacity to identify any difference between right and wrong and remain oblivious to their own deficiencies.

 

Thanks. +reps

Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 added into the list of shame!

Preview from the OP...

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740

 

I wonder how many more belong on the list but are missing due to consumer ignorance? I am sure the list is far from complete, but it is interesting that the trend suggests that Dell seems to be the OEM most hell bent on ruining end-user experience. Seeing any so-called "gaming" laptop on the list, no matter the brand, really shows us who the butt-kissers are that don't care about their customers.

They deserve to be called out, publicly ridiculed and financially harmed for their lack of regard for the victims that waste money on their broken trash that doesn't offer firmware configuration options to afford end-users the freedom of choice.

You're not putting up with their stupidity, are you? Are you taking appropriate measures to undo their inexcusable antics?

 

Apart from the MSI WT75 and the Eurocom Clevo/MSI clones the Dell Precision 7740/7540 are the most modular mobile workstations. Good luck I guess with hitting 5 GHz once you cannot underclock your 9980H anymore...

I think it would help if we had some kind of explanation next to the device in question that tells users if they can downgrade in case the firmware was accidentally upgraded.

In any case it is a shame that Intel would have to cripple it's CPU's like that - first they make them run too hot and then they prevent undervolting - great job!

 

They don't have to, and technically they do not. The problem is the stupid losers that build laptops with no option for customers to disable the feces features that cause problems like this one. The real issue here is SGX. Most people don't need it, don't know what it is for and haven't even heard of it.

With SGX disabled the vulnerability is, too. The Procrustean approach that the dumb dumbs are taking is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Intel didn't tell them to release crappy cancer firmware with hidden menu options.

On top of all that, Plundervolt isn't even something anyone needs to lose any sleep over. Unless you frequently give direct physical hands-on access to your computer for hackers to do as they wish with it, one should not worry his/her pretty little head over it. A big to-do about nothing, and one that certainly does not warrant ruining a customer's laptop without letting them decide if they want it ruined. Your chances of dying in a plane crash or getting swept out to sea by a tsunami are greater.

The problem with them running too hot also falls on the shoulders of the losers that build and sell trashbooks that are poorly engineered. Intel has nothing to do with their collective incompetence. When they can't even do that right with bare die contact and castrated TDP BGA junk it is obvious that they don't know what they are doing and don't care how it turns out.

 

@Papusan - Should this one be added list of broken turdbooks? ***XPS 17 Owner's Lounge***

 

Once it's 100% confirmed I will put it up XPS is a Dellbook so I expect the engineers have locked voltage adjustment out. I'll wait a few days. Please, everyone can tag me once they can provide the proper info. Thanks.

Just sad see people put the whole blame on Intel when the notebook manufacturers do it on free will. They can make a proper working firmware at any time. But nope! Cheaper and less work just add in the lock out and go further cripple their next models.

 

Are you planning on adding every 10th gen laptop that is released? I'm sure it will continue with all future CPUs too, unless they fix plundervolt at the hardware level. You are aware that Intel creates the microcode and manufacturers implement it. You can blame manufacturers all you want, but that's not how the game works. Intel creates the CPUs and the microcode, and then manufactures integrate that into the the bios. It's simple. Sure you can be upset about it, but be upset you didn't buy a laptop with voltage control in the bios. It sucks that it's come to this, but expecting manufactures to offer voltage control in the bios of every laptop they make isn't going to happen. We are a small community.

 

The info is to warn people what models have Voltage adjustment locked out as well tell already affected users why they can't undervolt. This is to provide info for all. Up to the people/buyers where they want put their money. I prefer most possible info when I buy a product. Being warned beforehand that I can't fully fix a flawed cooling design is a good thing to know before I shell out my hard earned money.

 

I understand your point, but you're going to be adding every laptop with a 10th gen CPU that doesn't have voltage control in the bios. May be easier to make a post of laptop with confirmed voltage control?

 

Easier get correct info about affected models when People start post about their problems. There is several brand with several models. A hug task find everything.

Se also @unclewebb 's post

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1084#post-10978288

@Papusan - Your Black List is a great idea. It might be a few more months before Microsoft starts force feeding the masses with Intel's latest microcode update which blocks voltage and turbo multiplier control.

I expect the same with firmware. And not all models will get firmware udates as well.

 

My point is every 10th gen laptop that is coming out will have the updated microcode and your thread will really be obsolete in terms of new laptops. It will be easier to have a thread that lists laptops with the ability change voltages...

 

Can also make a thread for 10th gen laptops. This thread could of course be only for models up to 9th gen notebooks.

But as I said... Easier get info when the problems start pop up.

 

Right, but you're talking about adding the XPS 17 (10th gen). Lots of posts on Reddit about people and their 10th gen laptops of every make and model that cannot undervolt. It was just a suggestion, I know I'd love an easy way to source which laptops offer some voltage control (such as the Max-15/17).

 

Yeah I know sir. I can make a thread for 10th gen notebooks. But I need to add in affected models (Locked out voltage adjustment). A lot easier because of the flood with brands and models. Anyway, Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Lol, I'm not sure how adding EVERY 10th gen laptop except the 10-15 that have voltage control is going to be easier.

 

HaHa, yeah we will se how this will pans out


New thread up for 10th gen laptops.

BLACK LIST 2. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits locked out - Affected 10th gen notebooks

 

Not for those with an option in the BIOS to disable SGX. There is no legitimate or honorable excuse for that option to be hidden. I suspect there will be some 10th gen laptops sold by companies that care and employ people that want to do the right thing. I doubt they will all be muppets, but some will continue to suck as they always have in the past.

Will have to wait and see, but for now the list of machines botched up by OEMs that do not care about their products or customers is shorter and easier to track. Let's hope it stays that way.

Intel® SGX for Dummies | Intel

Thus, the option to disable SGX exists in the firmware provided by companies that care about their customers. The companies that do not care may not give their customers the control they deserve and they are not upholding Intel's values.

 

Dell Inspiron 15 7577 added into the list of shame! Inspiron 15 7577, severe CPU throttling, recent bios update

Preview from OP post...

1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740
15) Dell Inspiron 15 7577

 

One brand really stands out as being the most consistent at failing to do the right thing. They have a reputation for screwing things up and repeating the same mistakes over and over again rather than learning from them.

 

Yeah, and add in the more power efficient AMD chips won't help (No Plundervolt patch needed) http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-776#post-11022782

You need proper heat protective gloves if you spend time on it. Maybe Dell should add with a external keyboard?

 

Yes shame on Dell for updating their Intel ME and microcode per daddy Intel's recommendation.

You've forgotten a couple:
HP Zbook 15 G6
HP ZBook 17 G5
Surface Laptop 3
Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop

I'm sure there are lots of others, these forums are just really popular with Dell laptops so we have a good sample size.

 

Thanks. +reps All 4 models added into the list of shame!
HP Zbook 15 G6
HP ZBook 17 G5
Surface Laptop 3
Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop

Preview from OP post...
1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740
15) Dell Inspiron 15 7577
16) HP Zbook 15 G6
17) HP ZBook 17 G5
18) Surface Laptop 3
19) Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop

 

I haven't updated my firmware, and even if I do, it appears a user here has discovered a workaround to update and still keep undervolt capability.

@Papusan needs to add the previous-gen notebooks, the Dell Precision 7530, 7730, and the next-gen notebooks, the 7550 and 7750 as well.

Like @custom90gt said, this is an Intel problem, first and foremost. *lake is the new GCN, and given Intel has been using more or less the same architecture since 2015, it's almost inevitable that researchers find more and more holes that Intel then has to plug with software and firmware patches.

It used to be a given that you could at least undervolt notebook CPUs without any other voltage control, to manage temperatures, but now it seems like only notebooks with guaranteed voltage control in the BIOS (usually flashy gaming notebooks) will be able to undervolt, here on out.

From the perspective of the OEMs, integrating this microcode patch is important because security > performance. This is even more so in the case of my notebook, which is a workstation typically used in corporate and more secure environments.

Vote with our wallets, I suppose, and buy notebooks with AMD Ryzen 4000 CPUs.

 

Will do. Remember post 10 gen notebooks in my new thread for 10th gen laptops.
BLACK LIST 2. Adjustable voltage control/turbo ratio limits locked out - Affected 10th gen notebooks

You mean vote with our wallets and buy laptops with AMD chips running average Cpu temperatures above 100C and with no undervolt options? More power efficient chips just means the OEM can shrink on the cooling. Not so sure this is an better option. On top you can't get them with the best Nvidia cards.

 

That's not what the video says (did you watch it to its entirety?) At any rate, the 4800H outputs ~50 W under maximum load, similar to current Intel CPUs under the long-term power limit. Given the same cooling (shared heatpipes seem to be an increasingly and depressingly common thing nowadays), I would obviously expect the same temperatures. And yet the 4800H performs better than the equivalent Intel CPUs (10750H, 10875H) at higher clock speeds and power draw.

 

I have watched it. Here is the notebookcheck article...
Dell G5 15 SE with AMD Ryzen 7 4800H records above 100 °C average CPU temperatures

"With the Dell G5 15 SE running in high-performance mode an average CPU temperature of 103 °C was measured. In combination with a cooling pad, still in high-performance mode, an average temperature of 102 °C was recorded. This latter figure was also reported for stock performance"

None of the OEMs is willing to put in more expencive/better cooling system intended for more than the bare minimum.

 

Thanks for the article.

Seems like the Asus G15 does much better than the Dell in the cooling department, then (once again, not the fault of the CPU, but the manufacturer).

 

Most of the issues notebooks have are a direct result of bad decisions and poor execution on the part of OEMs. It is also folly to believe one chipmaker has "safer" chips. The one viewed as being safer simply has not had its vulnerabilities identified yet. Consequently, there has been no opportunity for the media to create a new topic on which to drum up public hysteria. They also tend to be a little more protective of the one that is their darling of the day. The only things we can rely on in life to be constant and consistent are change, media bias and the depravity of the human race influencing everything else in one way or another. Whatever seems good at the moment is only relative and situational goodness.

 

If those vulnerabilities have not been identified yet, it means those vulnerabilities cannot be exploited yet, which in turn, means that the CPUs are safer, no?

I personally couldn't care less about the drama that news sites like to create, and try to get my information from a wide variety of sources (even those that I disagree with), so I can make an informed judgement of my own accord, without someone else deciding for me.

 

Yes. That is logical as well. At least circumstantially. What is irrational is having a sense of security or comfort because that could all completely vaporize tomorrow.

The real issue with security is human beings. The cyber criminals that create insecurity need to be hunted and pursued aggressively. When they are found they should be dealt with in an extremely harsh, brutal and merciless manner.

 

MSI has uploaded a new BIOS for the GE65:
https://es.msi.com/Laptop/support/GE65-Raider-9SF

Could someone please confirm whether undervolting still works with this new BIOS?

 

Is something on your system messed up or broken? If not, please pay no regard to the availability of firmware updates. Their potential to end poorly is generally far greater than the hypothetical benefits, whether they are real or imagined. Updating firmware has never posed a greater risk than it does today. Doing so is a great way to render a usable system broken and malfunctioning, including but not limited to the loss of any ability to maintain control of temperatures by undervolting. They almost never do anything to improve performance, and frequently do exactly the opposite. Just don't do it. Only fools rush in and jump on firmware updates just because they are new. You can thank me later.

 

Add Asus ROG Strix Scar III to the list as well (both G531GV and G531GW). Asus has issued a BIOS update (version 307) after which undervolting is no longer possible. Those about to update may please refrain from flashing this version. In case anyone has updated already, downgrade is still possible through WinFlash nodate workaround.

 

Same goes to Windows Updates, since the fix by Papusan..i haven't updated windows in 3 weeks

- Didn't experience one problem since, no forced bios micrcoding no irregular fan speeds...life has been a breeze

Thanks to everyone who helped..i was so close to ditching my genuine windows home copy in favor of a pirated windows pro just to disable the mess that is called "essential updates"

 

Also, another thing about the BIOS update 307 on the Scar is that, it gets pushed through Windows Update even though the official website has no mention of 307 bios - the website shows 306 as the latest one, which means they haven't updated the same on their website yet.

 

Thanks. +reps Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW) added into the list of shame!

Added also Dell Latitude E7470 on the same disgusting list.

Preview from OP post...
1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740
15) Dell Inspiron 15 7577
16) HP Zbook 15 G6
17) HP ZBook 17 G5
18) Surface Laptop 3
19) Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop
20) Dell Latitude E7470
21) Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW)

Vey nice see some happy brothers

 

Hi brother. Could you re-tweet Umar to get an update? No reply back isn't good service (over two months since this question). Maybe he is too busy or know the same will come for 10th gen models.

His customers ain't happy.

Why did dell disable undervolting on certain m15 r1 laptops with bios updates?

Why did dell disable undervolting on certain m15 r1 laptops with bios updates?

 

Add Dell Latitude 7490 to the list.
I did get around it by resetting to factory defaults in the BIOS and undervolting works again with latest BIOS.

 

Thanks. +reps Dell Latitude 7490 added into the list of shame!

Preview from the spoiler...
1) All G Series Gaming Laptops from Dell
2) Microsoft Surface Pro 7
3) HP Elitebook 840 G6
4) Acer Predator Helios 300
5) HP Probook 440 G5
6) Dell XPS 15 7590
7) Dell Alienware m15
8) Dell Alienware m17
9) Dell XPS 15 9570
10) Asus GX502
11) Asus GU502
12) ASUS GL704GW
13) Dell Precision 7540
14) Dell Precision 7740
15) Dell Inspiron 15 7577
16) HP Zbook 15 G6
17) HP ZBook 17 G5
18) Surface Laptop 3
19) Hp pavilion 15-cx0056wm gaming laptop
20) Dell Latitude E7470
21) Asus ROG Strix Scar III (both G531GV and G531GW)
22) Dell Latitude 7490

 

The list of shame grows longer!

 

Yes, and it is absolutely DISGUSTING to see unmitigated failures like this due to their technical incompetence and complete lack of regard for the people whose money they are taking. I also see a clear "winner" for top dishonors. My surprised look isn't on my face. This just confirms what some of us figured out a few years ago. My contempt for an entity so deserving of loathing and condemnation has never been stronger. The only good purpose they serve at this point is to provide a paycheck to people trying to put food on the table for their families. Other than that, they're worthless and the world would be a better place without them.

 

Sure. Will remind him. Let's see what he does.

EDIT: Link updated. If someone wants to give Umar a feel of the 'heat', feel free to reply to the tweet

Link: https://twitter.com/lakshay2015/status/1274719322695331841

 

Doesn't Intel have the constitutional right to decrease the performance of older CPUs to make newer (and unchanged) CPUs more attractive?

Kindly add the Dell XPS 9560 to the INTEL-SA-00289 list (BIOS Version: 1.19.2).

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/xps-15-9560-laptop/drivers

 

Don't know if it is "constitutional" but there is nothing stopping them. The Green Goblin (NVIDIA) manipulates performance all of the time using cancer drivers. Nothing new here.

The problem is the laptop manufacturer implementing mitigation options like a Nazi (Dell in your case) rather than leaving the configuration decisions to the laptop owner. Intel has nothing to do with the draconian ways the OEMs and ODMs implement things using firmware.

 

You mean outside of telling them to do it right? Their new microcode comes with SGX disabled by default. Only laptops with the ability to re-enable it will support undervolting.

Intel could design a CPU that has hardware mitigations instead of telling companies like Dell to just disable SGX to add security. It is literally Intel's way of securing their CPU. But please continue to excuse their tactics (including the BGA thing)...

 

They could have, but apparently their crystal ball wasn't working and then there is also the fact that the losers committing crimes who are the real underlying problem were born. A lot of things could be different/better if the world wasn't overrun by dishonest people looking for ways to steal and defraud or otherwise molest everyone and everything. There would be no need for any discussion about this at all if they were never born. If things were different AMD would produce respectable GPUs that everyone wanted, CPUs that overclocked nicely and with firmware that isn't crap, too. Everyone would be happy and there would be free cotton candy and hotdogs handed out on every street corner.

I think you are saying it in reverse. SGX is the cancer that disables undervolting. You need to have the option of disabling it for the system to be managed effectively. The laptops with customer-centric firmware already have that ability. Nothing needs to be changed for those folks. The people that do not are the ones being cheated. The laptop manufacturer should not have the final say on whether or not the customer can toggle that on/off, just like they should not withhold options like CSM support, boot order, or the ability to adjust the date and time or select the language displayed in their BIOS/UEFI. Pretty basic functionality. Nothing whatsoever that can be viewed as a threat or risk to the OEM/ODM. In fact, not having that ability might lead to some in-warranty failures or unhappy customer product returns on machines that run like crap or die due to overheating. So, hiding that menu option from customers is like cutting off their nose to spite their face... super stupid.

If they feel some kind of sick control freak obligation to deny the ability of customers to mitigate poor engineering, then they need to burn equal or greater calories controlling thermals by building machines with thermal management capacity to keep everything they sell cool and throttle-free without any undervolting. But, I definitely wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen. I think hell would freeze over first.

 

I get what you are saying, but regardless of what you'd like to appear in the bios or think should be there, it's Intel telling companies to disable SGX in order to have a safe operating environment. The fact that it's built into their IME firmware and CPU microcode to turn it off shows that it's Intel's doing. Sure it would be great if all the companies gave you all the options but that's not going to happen. I'd love to have some ram timings control in every laptop that I own, but that's not going to happen. Intel writes the firmware/microcode at the end of the day, the same microcode that disables undervolting...

 

It's really unfortunate that a couple of the largest notebook brands have become such ridiculous control freaks in terms of the cancerous firmware environments they deploy on their broken junkbooks. Having the ability to undervolt has done a lot to mask the level of incompetence that exists in laptop engineering. With SGX forced ON in the BIOS and no ability to turn it OFF to restore the ability to undervolt, the chickens are going to be coming home to roost and the consumers with slightly better than average intelligence are going to be able to tell something is messed up. SGX has to be turned on to work, and turning it on disables undervolting. There is absolutely no reason for most people to have it turned on because they do not anything, and have no need to do anything, that uses SGX technology. It has very limited business application.

It's only a problem because someone working for the OEM/ODM (not Intel) has arbitrarily decided it needs to be turned on for everyone whether they use it or not, and nobody should have the ability to turn it off. That actually indicates a MUCH LARGER issue with the laptop manufacturer that goes way beyond this topic. It is a reflection of their mindset and questionable integrity in general, and again... has nothing to do with Intel or SGX. It reflects very poorly on them and the products they sell. They may as well design their laptop firmware like smartphone firmware and not give access to anyone for anything whatsoever. By the same mentality, their customers should not have the ability to set the date and time, or change the language of the text displayed in the firmware, or choose whether their system can boot from USB or have Linux installed. This is not about overclocking or performance options. Most of the affected systems are not even capable of overclocking. But, they are capable of overheating because they were poorly designed by people that don't care if what they sell functions correctly.

 

Hah we can go round and round on this. It is INTEL who set the flag on SGX (not the OEM/ODM like you seem to believe). Sure it sucks that Dell and others don't have the ability in the bios to change the SGX flag, but make no mistake about who set the flag to begin with. Prior to Intel making this choice, you could undervolt to your hearts content. But again it was INTEL who set the flag with their microcode and IME firmware (again nothing to do with the bios/firmware provided by the OEM/ODM outside of not giving the user control of SGX). The original offender was and is Intel (and not Dell like you so want to believe).