Forget Intel Haswell, Broadwell on the Way

Skylake S is?...

 

Oh guys, Broadwell will be so good, cannot wait!

 

Yeah I dont get it either. Why are they launching Skylake architecture at the same time as they are launching Haswell architecture (Broadwell)...
If so, Im skipping Broadwell and buying Skylake instead.

It got DDR4 support, PCI 4.0 and probably much more efficient than Broadwell

 

Oh goodie, PCIe 4.0 would help a lot with future AMD XDMA crossfire implementations. I just wish Intel wasn't so stingy with the PCIe Lane count. Cmon, even AMD (despite a weaker CPU) allows easy 4 way x8 for quadfire/SLI.

 

Guys, for a notebook such as the 15" Retina MacBook Pros...

1. How much CPU performance increase can we expect?

2. How much GPU performance can we expect?

3. How much battery life improvement can we expect?

Obviously, nobody knows for sure, just educated guesses would be nice. Also, is Skylake coming out in 2015 as well?

 

cpu? 5-10%

gpu? 30-60%

battery? something like 0-1h

 

CPU should be 5-15% for desktop while laptops with the limited TDP should expect some very nice gains in my eyes with the die shrink. They should use significantly less power so i wouldn't be surprised if we see some good increase in mhz. I think a better guess can be made if you look at previous die shrinks for comparison. i bet kara knows. I have been out of the loop with that stuff for a while.

GPu i have no clue. I thought they made statements on what was being released on EU counts and it was lack lusters. Intel in my yes is a generation behind in what they should have done. I posted that a ways back sorry to lazy to remember or find it.


FYI S according to wikipedia is the LGA so Broadwell and skylake LGA is coming out at once??? Is that slide a fake because it makes no sense.

 

Details of first Broadwell "Y" mobile processors

 

Holy crap thats amazing. 4.5W on dual cores with 2.6GHz clock.
Haswell had these clocks on CPUs with 11.5W.

 

The turbo rate for ULV processors is not like the turbo rate for standard voltage processors. For standard voltage processors, they tend to run at or pretty close to turbo in most circumstances. But for ULV processors like the Y series above, they can only hold turbo clocks under favorable thermal conditions. And that means the processors won't be running at turbo nearly as often as their standard voltage counterparts. So it's a bit misleading to say 4.5 watts for a dual-core CPU at 2.6 Ghz. More like 4.5 watts for a 1.1 Ghz dual-core CPU that occasionally hits 2.6 Ghz.

 

Yep, Intel and its SDP vs. TDP obfustication.

 

I think Broadwell is too good to introduce, it will bring huge efficiency improvement and they waiting. Otherwise cannot sell anymore the Haswell laptops.

 

Doubt it. It's a die shrink of Haswell not a new urarch. It'll be a sidegrade or small improvement like Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge was.

 

I was referring to low voltage Haswell processors as well...

 

FYI no such thing as favorable thermal conditions... it either uses X TDP or doesn't

 

What I'm saying is there are performance sacrifices made to fit the TDP, and the lower the TDP target, the more sacrifices have to be made. Yes, the processor will always stay within the set thermal limits. But that does not mean it will always have consistently highest performance if maintaining that high performance would violate TDP.

 

Intel Broadwell Processors Delayed Again - 'H' Variants (Desktop Processors) will Now be Landing in July 2015

 

*face palm* -_-

 

The important is the U series still on track for this year, the bigger ones I'm not interested .

 

There was an article speculating that Intel might try to sell both Skylake and Broadwell desktop CPUs at the same time, and use the number-branding marketing to fool non-educated buyers.

 

maybe more so what P&G does with laundry detergent?

 

Intel beats estimates, says PCs packing next-gen Broadwell chips on track for the holidays | PCWorld

 

Followed by the inevitable:

Intel shipping Broadwell, but next-gen Skylake chip could slip | PCWorld

 

lol someone is having big problems with 14nm.
Not a good year for Intel or anyone for that matter.

Intel Core M Broadwell CPUs Delayed as Well, Just like Broadwell-K

 

So what do you guys think? 2.5 years of Intel on 14nm? 3 years?

Or are they able to pull it together with 10nm and get things out relatively on time?

I could see a "Skylake refresh" coming out in 2016.

 

I read only a very very small amount of select broadwell designs will ship in 2014. The vast majority of broadwell will not start releasing until Q1 2015. Full release from i7k to i3 desktop to tablet wont be complete till q2 2015 than the lower end pentium/celeron q3 or q4 2015.

yea skylake stays on 14nm so there shouldn't be a large skylake delay like there is with broadwell. So I think 1 year after broadwell will be skylake so yes h1 2016 i expect skylake, now the shrink to 10nm i think its called cannonlake, now it should be out in 2017 meaning 2 years on 14nm. Keyword should be out. every shrink gets harder than the last one. Having that knowledge and seeing how much intel struggled on 14nm to know the 10nm shrink will be even harder, I think intel will take an extra year, so till 2018 to get 10nm right. That makes it 3 years 2015-2018 of 14nm and that is honestly optimistic. If 10nm really does end up being harder than 14nm we could be waiting 4 years even.

 

it really comes down to if they can get the new process done....what was it called? EV or something. UV? They use a different light source or something in the process. I honestly can't remember. It was like a year ago last time i heard anything about it. They make lik 3-6 passes to get the process to 22nm right now but with the new process it would be half or something. This is why going smaller is so much harder because they have to make multi passes. If they get the new process done in the next year or so you can expect 10nm and 7nm to be on schedule. but 5nm might run into the same problems with needing 5 or more passes or whatever.

I am still wondering when intel pulls out of their R&D program the new material for computers.


EDIT: Interesting old article
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...that-will-take-us-to-the-limits-of-moores-law

EDIT: by the delays i might just build my server before i build my gaming desktop :/ It all really depends on what CPU is out when next gen GPUs are out.

 

5th Generation Broadwell 14nm family comes in three lines

 

So Ultra crap gets shipped first, and actually useful chips won't come until at least April 2015, which is 9 months out. And even then they'll only be available as soldered on BGA crap, with no mention of the socketed M chips.

Screw this.

 

Considering the fact that Apple won't be launching Broadwell laptops until spring 2015 should indicate what Intel's product launches would be like.

Also, Intel's mobile division has been consistently reporting losses due to their "contra revenue" policy. So of course they're going to continue to be obsessed with the smartphone/tablet market if they're still willing to PAY people to build tablets with their chips.

 

I've been really impressed with the recent ULV chips. I have a Haswell 2955u Chromebook and an Ivy Bridge Pentium 2117u gaming ultra-portable.

For most people, they provide great performance in a thin, lightweight notebook. Their performance is far superior to an Atom chip.

Intel is headed the right direction, and I'm really looking forward to Broadwell and Skylake, even if they are late to arrive.

 

Trying playing a modern AAA title with a ULV chip and see how far that takes you...

 

If you tried gaming with a ULV chip and dGPU, you would be pleasantly surprised and more than a little amazed.

Full-voltage laptops have already become a niche market.

 

By "gaming," are we talking Minesweeper or Crysis 3?

 

Finding ULV CPUs paired with a decent dedicated GPU is a fairly uncommon find compared to the piles of "i7 with no dedicated GPU" or "i3 with a Fermi GT 820M" or "GT 850M strangled with 4GB DDR3 VRAM because GDDR5 was too expensive".

Dell has barely any non-gaming/business laptops with a dedicated GPU. I've noticed that you had to move up to the 37W CPUs in order to get mid-ranged GPUs, at least for their non-ultrabook Latitude models.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/not...eon-8850m-1080p-matte-screen-under-500-a.html

this looked pretty badas by specs. An ultra book with a dedicated GPU like the asus zenbook is on my list whenever i get my first job out of college. A nice blend of quality, performance, battery, and protability is where it is at. Though if you are buying a ULV die shrinks are crucial times to buy because the real issue is TDP with those so a die shrink is perfect. So the broadwell/next gen GPU is when i can to buy an ultrabook if i want it to last for any reasonable amount of time. I am one that finds my IB at 4Ghz too slow because of single thread. The day i get a new desktop with an unlock chip and push 5-6Ghz will be the day...that will still hit walls for single thread though :/ going from 3.3Ghz 920xm to 3820qm/3920xm at 3.8-4Ghz was a night and day difference for single thread but it still hits brick walls :/

 

Crysis, Battlefield, whatever, an ULV already have plenty of power to play games, just need a good GPU near it. Like The above mentioned 8850M or i already seen an Acer Aspire with 850M Geforce.

 

Looks like Intel will still produce H-series chips for niche markets. Just don't expect them to be first out of the gate.

A few generations ago, Intel focused on 35w chips and binned a few 17w chips.

Now their focus is on 15w chips, because most buyers want thin and light. They responded to the market.

 

The Last laptop that experimented with a ULV CPU combined with a decent GPU + GDDR5 was the Acer M5. It was decent but not perfect because as it turns out, checklisting GDDR5 isn't enough. The GPU must also be sufficiently powerful plus the rest of the components must also be up to scratch.

The issue is partly cost but mostly I believe is that most manufacturers always want to build some kind of feature that forces planned obsolescence. The excuse that GDDR5 is too hot or power hungry is not even valid anymore because of the 1.35V variants being available.

 

Sort of. They are focused on low power and thin-and-light because these are the only meaningful differences they can make right now. For almost all intents and purposes, CPUs just aren't getting any faster anymore. Significant increases in single-threaded performance stopped around 10 years go so they went multi-threaded, but this doesn't scale very far and is basically done now. If they could go back to the pattern of the 1990's where they literally doubled performance every 18 months, they would do it -- but they can't. Nowadays performance increases from generation to generation are around 15% (and falling: in the recent past, it used to be closer to 25%). On the other hand, they can make a slightly slower chip that uses significantly less power so that's what they do.

 

Apple won't be releasing Broadwell laptops until spring of 2015 mainly due to Intel's delays. And I'm sure Apple is displeased with Intel not being able to provide Broadwell chips for their summer 2014 refresh.

And recently there were rumors about AMD giving their upcoming Carrizo APU stacked DRAM cache, which has upper-end GDDR5 bandwidth at a lower price. A cheaper counter to Intel's approach of giving a massive 128MB L4 cache to their Iris Pro.

EDIT: That Dell laptop weights 5lb... I wouldn't want to use that for college. But that $500 price is nice.

 

Except a ULV chip will bottleneck THE HELL out of a decent GPU.

 

Well, I went again ahead with ULV and if it will be able to keep constantly frequency around 2.5GHz like the 3rd gen ULV CPUs, I'm not concerned at all about CPU bottlenek. I actually never afraid of CPU but GPU bottleneck

 

Because your GPU isn't fast enough.

 

I have to disagree. A GPU bottleneck you can easily resolve by lowering graphic settings.

CPU bottleneck? Not so much. TF2 is stuck at 10-50 FPS on an i7-720qm (1.6 ghz quad core, only turbos up to 1.73 ghz) even when the GPU usage is only 30% to 80%, because TF2 only uses two cores.

 

To be fair I bet everyone is pissed with Intel for the delays.

They already schedule the r&d costs for the next laptops and that comes with changes to CPU and GPU (if the latter applies). To change only the GPU and then design a lot of changes to the mobo to accommodate the CPU isn't good business

Not to mention stock costs

 

i go to school with my m17x R4 and i would be cool with using an m18x but i would prefer a 15 in zenbook but my laptop is my main computer and i can't afford the zenbook so yea Reason why i would take an m18x with me is because of the screen Weight isn't a huge issue for school personally. I drag a crap ton with me.

Depends the TDP. If you got a 17-15w current gen you might be fine DEPENDING on the game. Source is a single thread hoooo! I posted much about that back several years ago. Other games just require a lot of CPU and multithread but others require none. If you have a 25w CPU with mid level laptop card you are perfectly find for most games. Again this is where the money is at for die shrinks.

You can always buy my 920xm It hasn't done anything in forever and is just chilling. Also this is why I noticed a night and day difference with my 920xm at 3.2-3.3 GHz and another huge difference going to IB. I almost doubled my singled thread with the 920xm and gained another 50 or 80% in single thread with IB. Now it is a waiting game til broadwell or later for me. I am at a sweet spot until a good desktop as my new main PC. I grave single thread so damn badly. I really recommend the 920xm or a new PC for you. It will be a night and day difference.

 

The performance increase will be tangible, but we can't predict that yet for actual workflows.

What we (almost) know for sure is that the performance per watt will blow away the SNB (3 gen old) platform easily.

Especially on idle/low power usage modes.
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Well, 1.73 GHz from first generation is not too muscular indeed. I think that an Y series Haswell ouperforms nicely (if we watch two cores).

 

Years ago when I also played SimCity4, I would run SC4 in the background at the slow speed while playing TF2. I tabbed between them every 10 minutes or so to check how is my city developing (after zoning and putting down infrastructure).

SC4 used 1 core. TF2 used 2 cores. That left another core to handle the OS and background tasks. All at 1.73 GHz.