Forget Intel Haswell, Broadwell on the Way

Intel's efficient 14nm processors to arrive on both enthusiast and entry systems

 

Nice. But it will probably be an i5 ULV in 14nm probably at about 12W TDP. Basically will be a souped up tablet.

I just can't see fanless coming to an "enthusiast desktop" even with 14nm. Today the TDP of the higher end desktop CPU's are still 80-130W. Even if you cut that in half, it's still too high for a fanless machine.

 

Gigantic heatsinks, phase change fridge, LN2/LHe2, immersion in mineral oil. Impossible is nothing.

 

you can have fanless for 40-80W IIRC. They sell them i believe. But i still dont understand why people want fanless so badly...granted my old desktop with 80 (50db?) and 92 (55db) mm vantec tornados might have been a little loud. I just don't get why a computer that makes 30db noise is just an issue....

 

HopelesslyFaithful,

Maybe because 30dBa constant background noise is still undesirable (and depending what kind of noise specifically is generated, of course). Not so much the noise itself; but because noise is cumulative it has a way of becoming too loud even in otherwise 'quiet' surroundings.

Of course, I'm assuming a computer that is used very close to the person - in this situation 0dBa is the goal (there is no 'quiet enough').

 

well according to my db reader my bathroom with nothing in it and all doors closed is 32db so i am not sure how a computer with 120mm fans is going to make much of a difference in a room that has generally comparable background noise. Assuming the average person that doesn't live in a hole where his own breathing is the loudest sound

 

As stated: it is additive, which means the background gets louder. It is also subjective too, you can have a 30dBa sound which is soothing (a baby's breathing in your ear) or you can have a fan with a bearing going that sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard.

0dBa is the goal. No noise is better than noise. Even if you think it doesn't affect you (others may be more sensitive).

 

Have a kid or two or three... background noise is irrelevant.

 

Past tense... so now every peaceful moment counts (until the big sleep, of course).

 

I live about 100 feet away from a major highway, so ambient noise instantly shoots up to about 48 dB if I open my windows. Can't hear the fans even at full load unless the laptop is in front of me. Even my bathroom registers 31 dB when I close the door and it's dead silent. So yeah, I'd jump for joy if the fans only made 30 dB.

Also, "fanless" and "powerful" should never go in the same sentence.

 

I don't see fanless being for the noise. The kinds of laptops that in the future might be fanless are already extremely quiet. Many laptops are already silent half of the time, at least when not doing anything intensive with them, but then they can turn on the fan to high levels and really cool down the processor when it starts to do work.

 

For me it would most certainly be for the noise. My machine is quiet, but every time the fan becomes audible, a small part of me dies.

 

to each their own but the only computers with fans that annoy me are netbooks...-_-

 

Intel Broadwell graphics enhancements

 

goddam who gives a rat's butt about Intel's useless iGPU. Intel needs to focus on what really matters and that's CPU performance.

 

actually the igpu is really important just they nerf it. The iGPU should be 30 and 60 by now but they are taking their sweet time and not applying the power that it deserves, which is garbage. The CPU only need single thread performance...singgle thread is still way way way to low in my opinion. overall CPU performance is great for nearly anything but single thread still eats it hard core style.

 

My point is, any serious gamer would have a dedicated graphics card, and that completely negates the point of having an iGPU. The best Intel has so far is the Iris Pro 5200, which has 90% the performance of Any current mid-range mobile card outperforms the Iris Pro, and a 3 year old desktop 550Ti completely decimates it. So I don't think I'm wrong when I say Intel's iGPU is complete and utterly useless garbage. (at least in its current state)

What I'd like to see is GPU-less versions of high-end CPUs. The iGPU does jack all in a high end system except for producing more heat. Instead of wasting that TDP on the iGPU, why not use to boost CPU performance or cram another core or two in there? Seriously look up Haswell's die map, the iGPU takes up roughly three cores worth of die space -- LOLWUT

 

and who said iGPU should only curtail to a serious gamers? maybe when some's GPU fan dies they want to still play a game or maybe people who want an ultrabook for portability and battery life would like to be able to reasonable game on it. A good iGPU is an important part for a lot of people. I would like to be able to own a laptop without feeling i have to have some type of dedicated GPU. If iGPU had 30 units on it i would be able to play a crap done of stuff. I currently can play a large selection of games on my 3920xm while i wait for a GPU fan but i could play a crap ton more with double the units 16 vs 30 bit instead it is a measly 24 -_- Haswell should have been 24.

seriously on the 550Ti? my 10 year old super computer is still faster than the fastest desktop derp!

first off you need to realize that 70% or whatever of intels CPUs are the same chip -_- all quad cores are the exact same chip. (minus the H line) 3720qm 3820qm 3920xm 3940xm 3770k 3570k and so on are all the same chip so that won't happen because that would be pointless. Also adding extra cores is generally useless due to it wont be used. I am not the largest power user in the world but i would even find few cases where 5th or 6th core would be useful....now better single thread is a different story.

 

Even if you're a "non-serious" gamer, I doubt you'll find using the iGPU satisfying. You said it yourself, a good iGPU could make a difference for some people, but right now even the Iris Pro 5200 is crap, and the HD 4600 is utter crap. If Intel is going to halfass their iGPU and release something that's only good for playing non-demanding games on the lowest setting, they should just not bother with the iGPU at all. Extra TDP for very little return. Yes yes it saves your butt when your dGPU dies, but my point is the current iGPU as it is just isn't suitable for gaming, which is why it's useless.

And I still don't understand why Intel can't make iGPU-less versions of high-end mobile CPUs. I stand by my statement that the iGPU has no place in a high performance CPU. None of the desktop SB-E or IB-E chips have the iGPU, so why can't they do the same for at least the Xtreme editions of mobile chips?

As for the 550Ti comment, I'm saying Intel's "best" is still worthless compared to a 3-year old middle of the road desktop GPU. Considering that Intel uses the same iGPU in both their mobile and desktop chips, I don't think this is an entirely unfair comparison.

Intel's current best (Iris Pro 5200) is still unsuited for any current game at 1080p, let alone the much weaker HD 4600. Which is fine for people who don't game, and want to keep costs down by buying something without a dGPU. OK fine, but in that case how does improving the iGPU benefit them if they're simply watching movies and web surfing? As for the Iris Pro, yeah I've railed enough about it already.

For me it really just boils down to this: instead of focusing all that effort on the iGPU, wouldn't Intel's time have been better spent improving CPU performance, and especially like you said, single thread performance? It just seems to me that Intel's focus on the iGPU has detracted from it's focus on improving the CPU.

 

i clearly stated that my 3920xm can plan a lot of games but if it had 30 like i think it should i wouldn't complain at all. 24 wouldn't be bad but 30 would be a good sweet spot for the none IRIS Pro and the IRIS is pretty cool actually. I wouldn't call the iris pro crap again still needs a 25% boost but it is not bad at all especially considering it is meant to be in ultrabooks and GPUless laptops. The GPU ads nearly 0 TDP. I doubt you can even notice it when you don't have iGPU on. Also TDP can easily be sovled if intel unlocked TDP on all CPUs like i have called for, for several years.

your GPU comparison is still stupid on several levels:
Desktop
TDP (116w TDP hahha comparable rofl) so 35 watt iris pro vs 116w
size
cost
intended use
and so on

Still a stupid and irrelevant point.

BTW i can get 1080 on AOE3 on the crap under power 3920xm, which i was not expecting but it runs playable so i am happy in that regard for a 16 EU CPU that at max uses 17w with it overclocked and overvolted. It uses like 14w ish otherwise.

Again the iGPu in highend GPUs will always be there retooling is not worth it plus it adds a complexity and cost that makes no sense...hence why you have GPUs in every chip -_- and i am glade for it because my m17x would be dead in the water plus i would be forced to have terrible battery life with only having a dedicated GPU. I can use 15-22w on battery with iGPU vs 24-35 with 7970m so that is a huge difference. I can pull around +-5 hours on iGPU vs +-3 hours...big difference.

Look i have almost 700 games in my library if i have a desktop/gaming laptop that works for hard core gaming cool but even with a 30 or 60 EU iGPU i can still play at 1080p/1200p a good 500 games. The iGPU is relevant. Not everyone only plays brand new games. I play new and old all the time and many new/newish games are not AAA graphics crazy games. It would be nive to have the ability to choose an iGPU that was good enough to play 3 year old games at 1080p, which a 60 EU GPU with unlocked TDP easily could.

Also the real issue with intel GPUs are two things:
intel drivers
second and most important OEMs not releasing new drivers

my iGPU is a real disappointment because i am stuck with v8 drivers when intel is on v15 -_- I can only install dell drivers for some reason so i am totally screwed on drivers thanks to dell. v8 when v15 is out....-_- Ridiculous.

 

I hope there is i7 quad core on Ultrabooks!

 

I am very bothered by the fact that Intel's best all-in-one integrated solution can barely run current AAA titles on medium in 768p, and that to me is just unacceptable. Of course, not everyone plays current AAA titles with crazy graphics; older and non-graphics intensive games would run at 1080p with the iGPU. So I suppose for them there's value in an all-in-one solution.

Also, my real complaint was that Intel seems to be focusing much more on iGPU improvement, apparently to the detriment of CPU improvement. Seriously we've gained about what, 10-15% from Sandy Bridge to Haswell, but iGPU has more than doubled its performance in the meantime. Granted there could be absolutely no correlation between the two phenomena. But for users who have a dGPU and don't have any use/couldn't care less about the iGPU, this is very disheartening.

 

oh god not another person clearly lying through their teeth spreading garbage information on the we have only gained 10-15% since SB. I have posted in this thread what 3-5 times now documentation showing that statement is utter crap. Please stop spreading BS.

 

Awesome. I can't wait to see where the Broadwell GPU lands in comparison to Maxwell.

 

It isn't utter crap, nor it is lying through their teeth. In most metrics, there are only very modest bumps in performance.

 

Ummm that 10-15% isn't too far off the mark: The Haswell Review: Intel Core i7-4770K & i5-4670K Tested

Granted those are for desktop chips, but my point is valid. And those are just figures at stock, overclocked it's even worse:

Intel Haswell i7-4770K IPC and Overclocking Review - Synthetic Benchmarks
Intel Haswell i7-4770K IPC and Overclocking Review - Multimedia Testing

Now, if you want to accuse me of looking only at desktop results and slightly embellishing on the "10-15%" figure, fine. But please don't say I'm lying through my teeth and spreading BS; the above figures speak for themselves..

 

Intel Broadwell Gets Significant Graphic Enhancements over Haswell - 8th Generation Architecture with 2x MSAA Hardware Support

 

So what does the 2xMSAA support mean? Was MSAA not supported before (maybe because of the lack of VRAM)? Or is this like dedicated hardware for MSAA?

 

Probably means the eDRAM lets the iGPU do 2x MSAA for "free" (no performance impact) like in the Xbox 360. Pretty much useless nowadays though since MSAA has basically dropped off the face of the earth in the last few years due to most modern game engines shifting to deferred rendering.

 

Your point is valid, but somewhat misleading when it comes to laptop chips. The two desktop chips you refer to are clocked at the same base frequency and have very similar Turbo modes. If you compare the $378/$568/$1096 CPUs for Sandy Bridge and Haswell, you will see that the 2760/2860/2960 are clocked at 2.4/2.5/2.7 GHz whereas the 4810/4910/4940 are clocked at 2.8/2.9/3.1 GHz. Thus, you pick up the 10-15% from architectural improvements, but you also get 15-17% from the clock speed at the same price and nearly the same TDP despite a much more powerful iGPU so the overall improvement is more like 30%. That said, the days when we got factor of two or even 50% improvements in a single CPU generation are long gone -- the Sandy Bridge to Haswell transition includes a die shrink, an architecture change and the switch to FinFET transistors... and all it really buys is 30% under the best circumstances.

 

Yes but clock for clock, Sandy Bridge to Haswell only got us 15% improvement, which is disappointing.

 

Certainly is, and that 15% IPC improvement is actually a pretty optimistic, best-case scenario number based on the benchmarks I've seen. And when overclocked they're basically tied as headroom has been shrinking with each successive generation. And no, it's not 'cause of thermal paste under IHS although that certainly didn't help temperatures. Delidded or not Haswell still OC's worse than IB which is worse than SB. IB-E is soldered but still doesn't OC as well as SB-E.

 

Intel will be at Computex in June this year......announcing Haswell refresh CPUs....
Yay

Broadwell will be here in Q1 2015 lol
Haswell Refresh already available in retail channels ahead of Intel announcement at Computex 2014

 

Intel CEO promises Broadwell PCs on shelves for holidays

 

I don't know why people keep insisting Broadwell is 2015. Hopefully this last statement ends that.

 

other reports earlier were reporting that it was pushed from Q3/Q4 to Q1 of 2015 because of delays or something...i think low yields

 

No guys, it is coming q4 2014. source

 

Preliminary launch dates of Broadwell CPUs

 

June 2015? Seriously

???????????????????????????????????????

I couldnt give a rats behind about low voltage "Y" or "U" CPUs

 

I find it hard to believe that Apple would let Intel wait until June next year for GT3e Quad Core parts.

 

Me as well with their dire need to update their line up they wouldn't allow that or something like that

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

 

GT*e has always lagged 6-9 months. The last ones didn't come out until december IIRC, while the rest were Q2/Q3 right?

 

Broadwell coming this year is a slimmed down version

 

What does "slimmed down" mean? That we might see faster clocked models in 2015? That the GPU has been scaled back, because that's the only portion that can really be "slimmed down", right?

And the last paragraph somewhat hurts the article's credibility, in that is says that without a doubt, the chip will be better than all Haswell chips, when this is a tick, not a tock, and a tick that's supposed to be "slimmed down", according to this article.

 

Slimmed down?
To me it sounds exactly like the previous news revealed: Y and U processors coming in 2014. The rest which the majority use won`t be here until 2015.

Here is Intel`s own roadmap. Q1 2015 is when desktop Broadwell arrives. This is seriously one messed up year. First 20nm postponed because TSMC is incapable at producing it for everyone. Then Broadwell might not be here until 2015.
I guess it will become worse and worse for every year we go down a node now since we are getting to really small scale.

Screw this
桌上型 Broadwell 暫定 2015 第一å£ç™¼è¡¨ï¼ŒIntel Devil's Canyon 最慢 9 月開賣 - VR-Zone ä¸æ–‡ç‰ˆ

 

pretty much. You nailed it on both accounts. The article really just sounds like it is looking for reads and thats about it because what it is "hinting" at is just the road map you posted, which is already confirmed. Looks like 22/28nm laptop was a good call and that a new desktop in 2015 sounds like a damn good time to upgrade because if the AMD 7000/ Nvidia 600 series have held strong this long next upgrade will be even worse -_- though! I have heard some talk in techpower up on their forum that 20nm was seriously botched and that 16 or 12 or whatever the next node is won't be as long as a period. Someone was saying that the 20nm was never really meant for high power applications and they were just trying to attempt to make it work and that the next node was actually supposed to be intended for high power. It was about a month back that they were talking about this in the news part of the forum. Should have posted it here. I guess TSMC 20nm was originally meant only for like cell phone SOC and not GPUs. i think someone also posted a chart with a timeline IIRC.

 

Intel Broadwell GPUs to use HD 5x00, Iris 6100 and Iris Pro 6200 branding

 

Intel 5Y10, 5Y10a and 5Y70 Broadwell CPUs to launch in September/October

 

[Phoronix] Intel Broadwell Graphics Names Revealed Via Linux Driver

 

Oh boy. Desktop Broadwell is coming out in Q2 (April-June) 2015.