Hands down the best 4th Gen laptop?

I am not sure. Maybe the "Want to Buy Forum" would be a good place for it? Perhaps @ALLurGroceries could chime in about that.

Seems like a good idea. That is a fantastic deal on a brand new P750ZM. If I had a legitimate need for a solid daily driver laptop I would have already jumped on it. I'd love to buy one just because the price is so low, but that's just an impulsive urge since I don't need it. (Had I not already purchased the MECH-15, I'd definitely jump on it.) Looks like they have at least 16 available (maybe more if there is a limit on the number they can list).

Yeah, avoiding BGA whenever possible is always the best policy. Not everyone can, but there's no reason to settle for trash if you don't have to. Unfortunately, settling for garbage is the norm today and conditions are such that garbage is almost all we have left to choose from with very few exceptions.

 

Ok but what does a dead LGA platform have over modern BGA?

 

Similar performance at cheaper price and not locked down.

 

Basically this.

Ill just add, a purpose I can actually give it.

 

the best CPU for 1150 is a 5775C. At best, you can score around a stock 7700K. Compare this to a R7 4800H which will blow it out of the water in any aspect.

 

You already have one at home?
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i9_9900k-890-vs-amd_ryzen_7_4800h-1146

 

edit

 

You got one for 450-500? MXM GPU?

But then why would I want a 4800H when I have my 2700x @ 4.2Ghz

Im not looking for bleeding edge, Im looking to make the best of my hardware. I still think you're missing that point.

You are welcome to stop thread crapping, if you want a BGA vs LGA vs rPGA discussion this is not the place for it. If you want one, create a thread.

 

Does it really matter? But if you prefer Notebookcheck link, Oh'well here it is. 4800H will struggle come on par with last years unlocked Intel BGA chips. And you talk about an 9900K killer

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-R...n-reach-of-an-18W-GeForce-MX250.455357.0.html

 

5775C with an OC and tuned DDR3 beats 5GHz 7700K and DDR4 in most games due to the L4 cache, as well as Zen2 in non heavily multithreaded titles.

 

When I was looking into this machine as just another potential option and saw this article on NBC.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...gured-with-Broadwell-processors.143901.0.html

Taken what I had seen about L4 cache in the 4980hq I had also seen some information about the 5775c besting 5.0Ghz 7700k's. I dont expect that here but just being in the same breath is enough for a 'secondary' machine.

 

For the average consumer that doesn't know much and has very low expectations, a disposable BGA trashbook is fine. If you can buy it cheap enough and don't mind throwing it away when it dies instead of fixing it, BGA is good enough. It won't ever be great though. For those that have higher expectations, LGA (past, present or future) offers:

• Easier and less costly to repair
• More configuration possibilities, easily overclocked
• Ability to change hardware configuration (not locked into one thing forever)

That P750ZM linked previously is brand new and ready to use out of the box for significantly less than the replacement cost of a motherboard for a dead BGA turdbook.

Modern BGA really doesn't bring anything compelling to the table... just a huge butt-load of meh.

 

Starting from this page, you can see that the 5775C at 4.2GHz beats the 7700K at 5GHz in almost every game tested, and sometimes by not insignificant margin (e.g. Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Watch Dogs 2, Witcher 3). And that's while remaining very power efficient. Keep in mind that both DDR3 and DDR4 platforms were tested with run-of-the-mill RAM, 1600MHz CL9 and 2133MHz CL14 respectively, so I expect the the 5775C to do even better with some 2133MHz or 2400MHz memory.

 

Yes I remember seeing that at some point when I was doing my original investigation into L4 cache equipped processors.

The p750zm over time has become quite interesting. I will wait a bit longer before purchasing as I want to make sure other things dont come up and surprise me lol.

Guess I need to get my wares on ebay, ugh.

 

Has anyone actually used an i7-5775C in a P750ZM before? If so, was it a drop-in or did it require a @Prema BIOS mod? I don't recall ever seeing that configuration.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroc...gured-with-Broadwell-processors.143901.0.html

I dont imagine Prema Mod would be needed, though I should also say I hope its not needed. As I doubt I would be able to make that request lol Hes a busy guy after all.

 

That's why I tagged @Prema but apparently it was offered (based on that link) and may not need a BIOS mod. That said, I think this was back when Eurocom was still a PremaMod partner shop. Not sure if the stock Clevo BIOS supports it or not, but I'm sure he will know the answer to that question.

Intel Core i7-5775C review: The unwanted desktop Broadwell has one neat trick

 

It would be great if he could confirm.

Hell it would be majestic if he knew how to code in a feature to overclock the L4 Cache. Seems the 3 basic speeds are 1600/1800/2000 with 1800 seeming to be the best of the bunch, 2000 wasnt always stable and the gains were slimmer.

Eurocom dropped out of Prema's graces? I dont keep up on the latest since I am usually in the used market.

 

I don't know the answer to the first question, but hopefully he can confirm it. Even though I had one, I was never really "into" the P750ZM that deeply. It was in the shadow of my M18xR2 and P570WM, then came the P870DM-G. I could have easily missed the option of a 5775C being popular, and it never would have been something that I would look at if it is not unlocked and overclockable. I'm always looking to go up in TDP rather than down. But, for a workhorse CPU it would have been pretty decent. There is no way to use the Iris Pro graphics, which was probably the reason most people wanted the 5775C.

They came both ways (LVDS and eDP) with FHD screens. The one I had was eDP with a 1080P screen.

I fixed that for you. @Prema offered an unlocked BIOS for all PremaMod Partner Shops. Eurocom is no longer a PremaMod Partner Shop.

I've never been a fan of the SteelSeries chicklet keyboard on MSI laptops. It was my least favorite thing about the Tornado F5. But, some people really love those keyboards. Personally, I think Clevo keyboards are better. As chicklet keyboards go, the SteelSeries was really good, but I do not care for any chicklet keyboard. I just don't like the look or feel of them on anything.

 

I think games were more GPU heavy in that era and plus it never really took off. Only other cpu besides the 4980hq to have L4 cache was the 6770hq which naturally is BGA, but Im sure it was nice in the NUC.

The 5775c and a 1070 could make it quite the sleeper. Doubt the 1080 would be worth the trouble, plus TDP modding the 1070 would bridge the gap nicely enough as this unit can use the 330w AC Adapter.

 

I'll show what a LGA system from 2012 in a 14" form factor has over a modern BGA in a week or so once I throw in a 2920XM into my M14xR2

As @Mr. Fox said, the AW 17 R1 and AW 18 were some of the best, especially the 17 R1 for 4th gen.

It's really hard to beat that

 

All Crystalwell CPU's have L4 cache, most have PGA/LGA conversions, and from what I've seen the 4950HQ atleast works in the P750ZM.

Best use of your HW would be selling it, and getting something higher performance than some dead end platform like 1150 or technically 1151 at this point, and waiting for the furnace to be that is LGA 1200 laptops.

-Easier/Less costly to repair
If the CPU/GPU dies, sure, but since you like being generic, go watch a rossman video or two, and you'll know they'd be more likely to fail in a LGA based laptop due to inadequate design of VRM vs proper design on a BGA machine

-More Configuration/Easily OC'd
Not really a valid claim, unless you mean more configuration by the end user.

-Ability to change HW configuration
Every swapped a stick of RAM or SSD?

 

Except 5775c should work just fine, aforementioned cpu would be harder and more expensive to acquire.

No thanks, tried to sell, didn't work out. This allows me to use that hardware instead as mentioned probably 3-4 times.

The rest of your points honestly seem like your trolling given how weak the counter points look to be.

 

You're kind of beating a dead horse here and making lame excuses for crappy BGA products won't make them any least pathetic. It's clear from your comments that you either don't have much experience with Clevo's LGA laptops or you're just trying to stir the pot with the wrong audience. Do LGA laptops run too hot? Yeah, you're damn right they do. But, not any hotter than crappy BGA turdboxes with half as much TDP, lousy overclocking abilities and poorly binned CPUs. Bottom line is that all laptops are varying degrees of garbage. BGA is just more so due to poor engineering and the self-serving motives designed to enrich the OEMs/ODMs that produce them. The fact that newer BGA CPUs with higher core counts and improved IPC run better than older LGA CPUs with one-third or one-half as many cores and threads shouldn't be surprising to anyone. That's just a simple mathematical calculation. When you do an apples-to-apples comparison, BGA can't keep pace with same-generation LGA. BGA is dead-end by design.

@Prema said there were different hardware revisions and a BIOS mod would likely be required to use the 5775C.

 

Ahh thats unfortunate, would basically mean the 5775c would not be an option, as I dont think he would permit sharing that mod considering he's been quite resolute on the matter save for a few exceptions.

In any case, still interested in picking one up, maybe after payday coming up here this Friday.

 

I never advocated for actually getting a 4xx0HQ CPU, just mentioned it was a option.
I find it incredibly rude and yet hilarious you think I'm trolling, I'm dead serious in all my points and have yet to have been met with a serious criticism.

"Lame" excuses isn't a valid comeback at this point, I could have shelled out long ago and called you all some derogatory insult but I've kept the conversation going just to see if there was any valid arguments on the losing side.

If you've ever messed with any kind of serious overclocking over the point of enabling multi core enhancement, you would know how useless a factor TDP is. I never said or mentioned anything about the other poins after so I'll choose to ignore them because frankly I don't care lol.

I would beg to differ that modern laptops are garbage simply because of BGA, look at how performance has increased in certain form factors, for instance, my MBP is thinner than a xbox game casing and yet I can beat a stock config of a M17X R4 all the while costing less than one did at launch. Sure, you can upgrade a M17X R4 with a 3940XM/LM/1070 MXM, but I can beat that with a $450 eGPU setup that costs more or less the same as the cost of the MXM card you would be upgrading to, all the while enjoying a easier and simpler setup.

 

Good for you? I think you’ve completely lost sight of the big picture, that it’s about what the OP wants, not what you want. I would call this trolling.

 

I typed out an item by item deconstruction but you essentially summarized it very nicely.

Thank you.

Slight off topic, did you feel the aftermarket IHS was a benefit? some people debate either way but I figure it would help with contact pressure on the heatsink worse case best case smaller range between idle and load temp.

 

Yeah, it's amazing that we don't stand still with same performance since 2012 or even as long back as 2006 And it's amazing seeing that Apple can offer slightly yearly increase in performance. In same way as for the Windowsbooks.

Your Phone Is Now More Powerful Than Your PC

"You owe it to yourself and your colleagues to have the best tools for powerful, on-the-go connectivity."

One of many... Dead End

It help due the increased pressure and you can sand it completely flat without loosing/destroy your orginal Intel lid (sanding down the lid, which in turn causes even less pressure).

 

1. Your idea of selling their old hardware and then pouring brand new, top end expensive funds into an LGA 1200 platform makes poor economical sense. Even buying a used or discounted new (you know, since you said it is dead end) platform based on 1150/1151 makes complete sense unless you have money to burn. Depending on workflow and usage needs, you can save a major chunk of change by picking and choosing your components and buying used or discounted new and satisfy your needs requirements.

2. System board repairs are unilateral across BGA/LGA, but look around the forums. How many people are looking for GPU fixes? It seems to be a regular occurrence. In a BGA system you're usually out the entire system board. In most (not all) LGA systems you can replace, downsize or upgrade new or
used GPUs at your discretion. The bulk of the systems I've repaired over the last 10 years are GPU failures (or the owner seeking an upgrade). Same goes for the rare CPU failure. I had the CPU die in my Mac Pro. I ended up just upgrading the CPU....BAM back up and in action. Look at @jc_denton and his P870TM1. His heavily modded P0 CPU (RIP ) went to the great silicon afterlife. He just ordered another CPU....BOOM back up and running. Right now I'm fishing for a choice 9900k/kf/ks for my P870TM1 to hit a killer sweet/quiet 4.5-4.7 profile. You do not have these straight forward options with BGA systems.

3. It is a valid claim. That is the very reason to have more options and better cooling and OC power is the end user. Never mind in an LGA system you can cherry pick the CPU not only by type but by silicon lottery to eeek out optimal performance.

4. Ability to change HW configuration extends beyond just RAM (unless you're SOL with soldered RAM) and SSD (again, unless you're SOL with soldered storage). I've gone through 3-4 different types of RAM training, testing and optimizing performance. Storage is, well, storage but it is nice to have options to build out or upgrade in the future as your storage needs change. The flexibility of some of the laptops (mainly Clevo now) allowed users to extend their laptops from the 1000 series to 2000....not exactly much gain though. How many Alienware 17 and 18 users have seen their system be able to move through 4-5+ generation of GPUs and still be gaming with modern titles?

BGA laptops definitely have a place in the portable hierarchy (size and battery life being the primary categories), but they come with major tradeoffs depending on what you seek/need. I'll easily concede that the market has and continues to move towards thin and light with killer battery life and the expanding T&L market eroding the ever contracting DTR market backs that up. T&L laptops have reached a point where even with throttled, hot, compact space they now provide enough performance to satisfy the general masses even many gamers. There's value in that, but your points just seem to be grasping.

 

Yes, like Papu said, the biggest benefit compared to the stock IHS is that it’s slightly taller, flatter, and has a slightly larger surface area. I haven’t directly compared it to the Intel IHS, but I’d imagine the difference isn’t huge, maybe a few degrees better at most. Another thing to note is that it is pure copper, so when using LM it does tend to interact a bit more. If I had the means to, I would probably nickel plate it.

 

I ordered a few BartX IHS's with increased height (4.3mm) for my P870TM1. One for 8th gen (in use now) and one for 9th gen (when I track down a low vid high UC capable 9900k/kf/ks (most likely ks) chip in the 4.5-4.7 range).

I had to use a shim with my stock 8086k to get the temps down mainly to lower or kill the fan noise. The pros were I was able to lap my IHS for a better, flatter fit and keep it tight.

The benefit of the BartX was it was milled as flat as could be and one contiguous work of beauty, but more importantly it has absolutely killed the need for fans on the low end and the CPU idles in the low 30's now. With the shim mod, some light loads would still kick up fans ever so slightly due to the inefficiency of the CPU->IHS->TIM->SHIM->TIM->HS transfer process. Being able to custom order an IHS, I achieved the height I needed and a bit of mounting space around the CPU perimeter that allowed me to have an absolutely tight as possible fit and be able to reseal it completely.

Under normal use with the BartX (not gaming, compiling or benching), the system is beyond quiet. Once under meaningful load, at a certain point, the BartX meets the shimmed, lapped Intel stock IHS as heat is saturating that point of transfer shim or not and the fans will kick up to compensate.

NOTE: Usually when I delid and reseal for friends, family, clients, I use a nifty, plastic razor blade to clean up the excess and make it look all super clean and professional. This is my personal chip (atm) and I know it will be most likely be getting re delidded (again), replace the BartX with a RockitCool IHS or stock Intel IHS and then rebinned (again) before selling down the road once the 9900ks step is complete....before someone goes on and on about the extra silicon

Attack of the IHSes and Shims (Stock Intel IHS 6th-8th, Bitspower Silver Lining 4.3mm 6th-7th, RockitCool 6th-8th , BartX 8th gen, BartX 9th gen):

 

You may already know, but others reading the post may not be aware that you can get one that is already nickel plated for use with liquid metal. Although liquid metal stains do not harm copper, the slick and non-porous nickel finish makes cleanup a lot easier. Also important to note that one should not lap a nickel plated IHS, as doing so will permanently damage the finish and lead to delamination of the nickel plating. However, if you buy an IHS that is made flat on purpose lapping would provide little or no benefit. Having a flat IHS is more important/useful on a laptop because the heat sink is flat (unless you get a warped one) and the stock IHS is concave. Desktop heat sinks are generally made with a slightly convex surface to mate with the stock IHS

https://www.bartxstore.com/standard/

 

So right now my ideal scenario would be something along the lines of:

P750zm
i7 5775c w/ Nickel plated copper IHS (resell 4790) w/ LM
eDP mainboard
32GB 2133Mhz (resell w/e 32GB is included)
GTX 1070 @ 180w (resell 970m)
Source 1080p120hz panel or use the 4K IGZO
Killer AX1650 (resell w/e it comes with)
Source 330w AC adapter if 230w is included

Before making this thread I had no idea about the p750zm to begin with lol, so even though it did get crapped on here and there, ultimately I think I have found my solution.

 

Purchased one for 480

Going to get a lot of OT this week and am going to sell off the 13 r3 plus Alienware 17 stuff.

In the end, all roads lead to clevo I guess lol.

 

Fantastic. Welcome to the Clevo family.

 

I am hoping that the MXM port will actually allow for 170w to let the 1070 shine. that and 5775c, if not then I might have to plead my case to Prema lol

 

Congrats! I enjoyed your Ranger thread of ever evolving upgrades and mods. I look forward to the same with the new system.

 

I got a few ideas for the p750zm already lol.

This time however I am going to try to keep things a bit more simple since I learned some things from my modding of the Ranger. Ranger modding was grand, but will be a bit more mild in comparison because sourcing parts is not as easy. Of course though, I would be standing on the shoulders of giants as many others have been modding these systems and I would just taking inspiration from their efforts.

Ultimate goal:

5775c @ 4.0-4.2Ghz w/ Copper IHS w/LM
eDP mainboard
32GB 2133Mhz (own)
1070 (waiting to come back to me potentially)
AX1650 (have a spare)
1TB M.2 SATA ((boot) own))
2TB Seagate SSHD (own)
500GB SSHD (own)
1080p120hz+

I'll have to wait until I actually get it to see what kind of clearance I have to work with for mods, but I would like to expand on the heatsink much in the spirit of the p870. Just depends on the clearance.

 

The drives (assuming they are not the large desktop 3.5-inch size) and other parts should fit without any mods. There is no room in the chassis for drives larger than standard laptop 2.5-inch drives and 2280 form factor M.2 drives.

Chances are good your mobo will already be an eDP version. However, going to 120Hz or 4K may not be plug and play unless you use a specific panel part number that was offered as a stock option on a Clevo and BIOS support for it is already present. I have needed BIOS mods to use panels that were never offered as an option from Clevo. While Clevo is head and shoulders better than other laptops OEMs in many respects, their Gestapo approach to the firmware is just as diabolical as all of the losers they compete with. @Prema is the only path to greatness when the firmware is involved. There is no excuse for any laptop OEM/ODM to make firmware restrictive where GPU and display mods are concerned, but that doesn't stop all of them from acting like Nazis with respect to firmware. It should be as simple as swapping monitors or GPUs on a desktop, but unfortunately, that is not the case.

The only thing that might be a bit of a modding challenge is using a taller IHS since that will potentially upset alignment of the unified heat sink and cause some contact/interference issues with the GPU as well as where the radiators fit the chassis on the fan end of the cooling system. You might have to do some gentle bending of heat pipes to compensate. Perhaps acquiring a spare unified heat sink assembly would be a good idea in case you ever need to go back to the stock IHS for some reason. Otherwise, you might end up having to order a replacement later and not be able to use the machine while waiting for it to arrive.

 

Maybe I could be lucky and these may just have prema bios included? I doubt it but one could always hope.

Well if I could overclock the panel that would be good too, but have yet to have success overclocking eDP panels. Worst case I'll just look around for a 4k IGZO panel, it would be an interesting experience for older titles like modded mass effect trilogy or dead space or even emulators. I also intend to dabble in game dev stuff some more so color accuracy could be my justification lol

The prospect of making a unique laptop has me very excited, especially for the price and being able to re-use most of my hardware which was my original goal.

Thank you guys very much for bringing up the p750zm, which the price of what I got it for new it seems it was meant to be lol

This weekend I'll be shuffling a lot of hardware around and getting some listings up. It turned out I needed the box this will come in as I don't have the box the 13 r3 came in.

I enjoyed building my desktop and what I was able to pull out of it in terms of performance, but laptops offer that extra challenge that's missing in my price range lol

I look forward to picking your guys' brains in the near future

 

I just got the laptop and only did a quick overlook of it for the moment as I have other engagements for the night.

First thing, they sent me a Norwegian keyboard layout, which is irritating but that is fixable.

Second, the panel is an eDP panel everyone! 30 pin 2 lane from what I could see from HWINFO64. It came with an AH-IPS panel from LG @60hz. A hurdle for the 1070 has been passed.

Third, the damn laptop already comes with 32GB 2133mhzcl11 RAM!! Welp if I can get BIOS unlocked then I guess I have plenty to go through for binning for best clocks lol Kingston HyperX. This alone makes the cost of the laptop that much more insane.

I don't know how Norwegians type on a layout like this, its so alien to me lol

Lastly, it comes with a 230w Chicony AC adapter. I will need to replace this if I am to draw the most performance from the 1070.

The keyboard is actually nice to type on, just the layout is way too alien to me...

and for the love of god, no optimus.

Lastly the laptop does indeed appear to be new, the keys don't stick and everything was still wrapped. The pro of it being Norwegian is it came with cables for basically all regions it looks like. I plan to take this thing to Korea so that is a huge benefit.

So far I am impressed, haven't looked at temps or anything like that quite yet. Working through the weekend and likely to have to work double shifts next week.

@Prema

Whats a man gotta do in order to obtain a BIOS for the p750zm?

My plans for this current unit involves the 5775c and GTX 1070, with some RAM overclocking. Possible to get a little magic for this laptop? Would be more than happy to bench this thing for you guys in HWBot, as I doubt there is much interest in this laptop anymore beyond myself lol

Anyways thanks again guys, at some point I will make another thread as I had with my Ranger, for mods and stuff like that.

 

Maybe Brother @Papusan would like the Norweigian keyboard.

Congrats. Very happy for you. Really solid machine. Glad you got the eDP version. I think the LVDS versions were not that common.

 

In the mean time I will email Eurocom to see if they have any unlocked BIOS, it wont be as good as @Prema BIOS but I need to see waht RAM is best for keeping and selling the rest, and also to see if I cant get the 5775c working in there.

@Papusan can have the keyboard after I find a replacement, not sure if it will work for his P870DM though.

 

Please check your PM, bro. I have something to talk offline about.

I don't remember if the P870DM-G uses the same keyboard as the P750ZM or not, but Clevo did use the same keyboard on a lot of machines for a lot of years. I think some look the same on the outside, but have some differences in the cable arrangements and mounting screw placement to accommodate different chassis designs.

I really like the older Clevo keyboards. They are comfortable to type on and very durable. Brother @Papusan bought his machine from Multicom (Norweigian Clevo reseller) so it probably already has the right keyboard.

 

Yeah, you really has to work hard being able to kill the Clevo keyboard. And it’s very rare you see flying keys everywhere as you can see with Aw’s newest gaming flagship. Even the colors on the keys stay intact (and no disgusting Lunar Yellowish) And yeah, I have the right keyboard.

 

Figured you would lol, anyways I don't think it's compatible, at least the listings I found don't paint that picture.

I talked to the seller and while I didn't notify him of the actual hardware he's selling (want everyone to benefit from it) I did ask for a partial refund to cover half the expense of a replacement keyboard as that would cost less than shipping the machine back and forth and also reduce the cost of man hours and logistics of handling it and allow me to keep the machine I have which is what I need.

So soon I will have the keyboard for it and get to keep the laptop I have received.

All in all I think this is quite favorable overall. Now on to testing the ram for best overclocks and selling the rest. Maybe this weekend, got to hit the gym as my other goal is consistent weight loss. Corona virus or not I have deadlines to meet lol

Really looking forward to getting the 5775c and making this machine quite unique.

I'll keep the 256gb 850 pro as the OS drive, I have a 1TB ssd I can put in and also a 2TB sshd.
32gb ram and a 1070 this system will be complete.

 

@TheReciever I'm a bit late to the party, but congratulations! (=

 

Thanks!

Now I just got to figure out how to sell my extra stuff when everyone is freaking out about this damn virus lol

 

Silicon chips are nice, but they are not noted for being rich in essential vitamins and nutrients.

You might end up getting more for those parts later on, once the virus drama has passed and demand for computer parts far exceeds the available supply.