The Notebook Review forums were hosted by TechTarget, who shut down them down on January 31, 2022. This static read-only archive was pulled by NBR forum users between January 20 and January 31, 2022, in an effort to make sure that the valuable technical information that had been posted on the forums is preserved. For current discussions, many NBR forum users moved over to NotebookTalk.net after the shutdown.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
← Previous pageNext page →

    How do you want your next laptop to be built?

    Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Mr. Fox, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Raidriar

    Raidriar ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

    Reputations:
    1,708
    Messages:
    5,820
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    Trophy Points:
    431
    What I love about Alienware (and never really manifested with the P870DMX) was the ability to be a portable desktop, but also worked as a laptop too. I could get 5-6 hours battery life on the M18x when I switched to intel GPU. I doubt there are any p870DMs that can remotely approach that kind of battery life. I'm pissed intel killed off socketed mobile extreme chips.
     
    Ashtrix, Mr. Fox, Papusan and 2 others like this.
  2. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331

    This is why I love my current setup of having a desktop at home base and then a tablet or light laptop for mobility. I understand not everyone has the space for a desktop and that some are on the road enough that they need to effectively bring desktop power with them, but I suspect that's not enough users to make a dent in the market any more.
     
    tilleroftheearth likes this.
  3. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    5,398
    Messages:
    12,692
    Likes Received:
    2,717
    Trophy Points:
    631
    Yeah; desktop + notebook is still the best option today for having a backup, not only of your DATA, but also of the hardware/platform you need to run that DATA on.

    Over the years I have seen many left out in the cold with lots of data backup (2, 3 and more copies) but no system with which to do their work on when that single system fails.

    I have 3+ notebooks and 5+ desktops for my personal use (with DATA synchronized between all of them) and still have run into specific situations where I was without a system to use. That is why I love the T100TA type 'digital notebooks' that can still make me look professional vs. trying to do anything on a 'smartphone' (yeah; even replying to emails...).

    (Note; the 'DATA' itself lives additionally on a multi-drive NAS - that is why a small notebook with a keyboard and external mouse can do what I need).

    Not only is the notebook lighter and usually more battery efficient using this approach (still waiting for the promised full day/8 hour run time!) - but I walk a little taller too. :)
     
    ole!!! likes this.
  4. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331

    It's also nice as a bridge, so when it comes time to upgrade and you want to sell one off to help fund its replacement, you've got the other to briefly shift to.
     
    tilleroftheearth likes this.
  5. ssj92

    ssj92 Neutron Star

    Reputations:
    2,446
    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    5,690
    Trophy Points:
    581
    Probably the last true desktop replacement that had excellent battery life and could work as a monitor (HDMI IN).

    I'd like to see a P870DM3 made of anodized aluminum, mux switch for better battery life (even 7700K has integrated graphics!) and to top it off, an HDMI IN.
     
  6. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331
    With the number of people asking about HDMI IN you'd think there would be more options for that floating around out there.
     
    Ionising_Radiation and ssj92 like this.
  7. ssj92

    ssj92 Neutron Star

    Reputations:
    2,446
    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    5,690
    Trophy Points:
    581
    I don't understand why it was taken out. I still cannot find any USB2/3 or ExpressCard solution that has no latency.

    Only laptops I know of that have it:

    Alienware M18x/M18xR2
    Alienware M17xR3/R4
    Alienware 17 R1/18

    Clevo X7200

    Don't remember if the older Clevo's had it but yeah..
     
    Ashtrix likes this.
  8. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331
    Me either. It's clearly popular.
     
  9. Raidriar

    Raidriar ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

    Reputations:
    1,708
    Messages:
    5,820
    Likes Received:
    4,311
    Trophy Points:
    431
    Pick up a properly sorted M18x R2 and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Maybe avoid building one this time around ;)
     
    ssj92 likes this.
  10. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    I never really had any use for the HDMI input, but it would be a nice feature for someone to have if they could identify a benefit to having it. Same was true of the IGFX switch. Between the M18xR1 and M18xR2 I think I actually had a reason (for pleasure only, not an actual need,) to rely on the battery twice over many years of happy ownership, and I used the 6 hour battery life to its fullest both times. If battery life had ever been more important it would have been extremely useful to me.

    The nicest thing about the IGFX (but only with an SVL7 unlocked BIOS... not possible with stock BIOS) was the ability to boot from IGFX to flash a bricked GPU.
     
    Papusan and TBoneSan like this.
  11. ssj92

    ssj92 Neutron Star

    Reputations:
    2,446
    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    5,690
    Trophy Points:
    581
    Naw I'm done. My M18xR1 was brand new from HIDEvolution and was bad(they tried fixing it for two months). Although it was beautiful, brand new nebula red m18x r1 new in 2017, that's hard to find. I ended up getting a refund for it.

    Then my friend's M18xR2 dies..this was sad. Ultimately after what happened with My R1 he decided he's going to just get a new laptop.

    Only two survivors are my friend's legandary M18xR2 Nebula Red Maxed Out(my previous M18xR2 that I should have never sold) and my brother's M18xR2 (Stealth Black, 680m SLI, 3630QM).

    I'll stick to my Clevo for now. Probably my last DTR laptop unless things change.

    Edit: I spoke too soon, there's someone selling a M18xR2 here on the forums and they're 40 mins away from me LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  12. Teraforce

    Teraforce Flying through life

    Reputations:
    3,055
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    114
    Trophy Points:
    81
    ^^This, even though I've never swapped a CPU in any laptop. 10 years ago, I did consider swapping out the Core Duo T2600 for a Core 2 Duo T7xxx series CPU in my old HP Compaq nw8440, primarily so I could use a 64-bit OS and 4GB of RAM, but I never got around to it.
     
    Papusan, Jarhead and Mr. Fox like this.
  13. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    thats one portion i feel lacking with clevo's desktop replacement feel like they cheaped out. iGPU has its own good use, such as troubleshooting when dGP goes bad you can still do work, and game at low settings. as for battery issue, i'd simply duel boot and on 2nd partition have 1 core active only and put on p12 or w/e GPU lowest state is with least voltage and use it that way.


    i think those two cp have different FSB unless its T7600 iirc can't remember. get T7600G for overclock duo core.
     
    Papusan and Mr. Fox like this.
  14. LoneSyndal

    LoneSyndal Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    341
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    530
    Trophy Points:
    106
    I'm probably one of few, but can we get a display panel that is actually worthwhile at the competitive gaming level? I can feel ghosting on every panel on all the recent laptops being released and it makes my games feel sluggish (this is including the 120Hz/5ms panels). There are times I just don't want an external display connected...

    -An FPS enthusiast
     
    Ashtrix, Papusan and Mr. Fox like this.
  15. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    All other game genres are just cheap imitations of what makes PC gaming so wonderful.
     
    Ashtrix likes this.
  16. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

    Reputations:
    5,036
    Messages:
    12,168
    Likes Received:
    3,133
    Trophy Points:
    681
    r00d
     
    Papusan and Mr. Fox like this.
  17. Splintah

    Splintah Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    278
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    131
    he's right tho
     
    Mr. Fox likes this.
  18. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Thanks. I do what I can. +5 rep
     
  19. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Being right is always wrong in a world obsessed with being politically correct.

    What's that word they use???

    Oh, yeah... tolerance. :vbthumbsup:

    Mountain:
    Mole hill: ∆
     
    ole!!! likes this.
  20. Ionising_Radiation

    Ionising_Radiation ?v = ve*ln(m0/m1)

    Reputations:
    757
    Messages:
    3,242
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Eh?

    I think the only two FPSes that are worth playing today are BF1 and PUBG.

    I'd much rather sit back and relax with a musical masterpiece, a graphically-intensive, interactive open-world game like The Witcher 3.

    As for 'what makes PC gaming so wonderful', the PCMR subreddit has beaten this to death so much I don't want to list it all out again, but, like I said, @Mr. Fox... You're fond of absolutes. Not everything is #FFFFFF or #000000. There's no political correctness in this. Some people detest FPSes and exclusively play grand strategy. The lowest they'd descend is Civ V. Others play a bit of everything. A few build ridiculously powerful PCs to run one thing: flight simulators with cylindrical projection. Even a system with a 7700K at 5 GHz and 2x GTX 1080 Ti SLI would sit up and beg for mercy when X-Plane 11 is run with all the sliders to the right. I've seen it.

    It's the same argument with BGA. Just because you think it sucks doesn't mean it does (well, it does, but how else would we get 0.8cm notebooks? Unless you've got a solution).
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
    Mr. Fox likes this.
  21. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    4,346
    Messages:
    6,824
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Trophy Points:
    681
    I agree, but I don't think Mr Fox is being serious serious, after all everyone knows that it doesn't really matter what games you like (I mean c'mon we can't get upset about that, these are the mountains & molehills!), I'm thinking people were just having fun with the conversation in that fps gaming part - starting off with the "rOOd" comment. Ha!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
    Ashtrix, Mr. Fox and TBoneSan like this.
  22. laserbullet

    laserbullet Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    86
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    41
    I'm intrigued by this "fun" thing and wish to learn more. Where can I download it, and is there a guide here on the forums, or elsewhere?
     
    Mr. Fox likes this.
  23. sicily428

    sicily428 Donuts!! :)

    Reputations:
    816
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Trophy Points:
    231
    ASRock releases the small form-factor DeskMini GTX/RX PC with GTX 1080
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/ASRoc...eskMini-GTX-RX-PC-with-GTX-1080.245958.0.html

    https://www.asrock.com/nettop/intel/DeskMini GTXRX/index.us.asp#Overview

    [​IMG]

      • upports Intel® 7th Core™ / Pentium® / Celeron® LGA1151 processors
      • Discrete MXM slots with Type A/B/B+, up to GeForce GTX1080
      • Dual DDR4 SO-DIMMs, up to 32GB
      • 4K@60Hz video outputs: HDMI, DisplayPort, mini DisplayPort
      • Up to 3 x Ultra M.2 PCIe Gen3 x4 Slots
      • Supports Intel® Optane™ Technology
      • USB 3.1 Gen1 type-C port
      • Brand new Micro STX platform
      • 2.7 Liter tiny size


    [​IMG]
     
    ole!!! and Mr. Fox like this.
  24. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Yes, exactly. It's all fun and games until someone loses any eye. Life is too short to be serious about everything. I knew the comment by @Jarhead was playful and gave him rep for it.
     
    TBoneSan, Papusan, Ashtrix and 2 others like this.
  25. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

    Reputations:
    5,036
    Messages:
    12,168
    Likes Received:
    3,133
    Trophy Points:
    681
    Yeah, nothing too serious (except maybe the BGA v no-BGA thing). As for games, of course some FPSes can be very demanding on computer hardware though of course other genres can be too. An example: I typically play WarThunder (flight sim-ish) and management games like SinCity and Transport Fever; playing those sort of games on their "beautiful" settings is also quite taxing on computer hardware (such as city games and tracking all the citizens; that'll stress the CPU easily).

    Danke, by the way :)
     
    TBoneSan, Papusan and Mr. Fox like this.
  26. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331
    I'd argue but now that I think of it most of the genres I preferred back in the day have stagnated to the point where I don't play them any more or are irrelevant, so you have my grudging agreement.
     
  27. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    old games are generally made better, in terms of story, game play mechanics etc.

    just like most of the older movies from 60-90s are generally better than the flashy, cgi movies nowadays with boring stories.
     
  28. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

    Reputations:
    37,218
    Messages:
    39,333
    Likes Received:
    70,632
    Trophy Points:
    931
    That looks pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing it.
     
    sicily428 likes this.
  29. Jarhead

    Jarhead 恋の♡アカサタナ

    Reputations:
    5,036
    Messages:
    12,168
    Likes Received:
    3,133
    Trophy Points:
    681
    Eh, I'd say the same with FPSes really: they all look and feel the same to me, at least between when I started playing them (early 2000s) thru to the MW3 era. On top of that, what I've seen since I stopped playing them is that it's still the same, with one or two gimmicky elements attached: sometimes you can drive a big robot (Titanfall), it's a MMOFPS (Destiny), it's a clone of TF2 with cute girls (Overwatch), etc.

    That said, personally I don't think the gaming industry as a whole (not just FPSes) are really doing anything interesting to be honest, and it's all just gone flat and stagnent. Really, the only thing to come to mind that's been game-changing (excuse the pun) in the last few years was the rise of voxel games (Minecraft, etc), and *maybe* very-realistic sandbox sims (KSP, etc).

    The rest of the "innovations" mostly have just been gimmicks and/or excuses to consume more CPU/GPU resources (which might also be considered a gimmick).
     
  30. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    4,346
    Messages:
    6,824
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Trophy Points:
    681
    I think so too, unless I'm just older than I used to be!
     
    Mr. Fox likes this.
  31. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    4,346
    Messages:
    6,824
    Likes Received:
    6,112
    Trophy Points:
    681
    Wooot, Titantfall 2 for the win! I likes them robots and the flying through the air & all! (I'm on a break from it though, it was too addictive & it was annoying me, so exploring Mass Effect Andromeda recently.)
     
  32. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331
    I didn't really mean that. Many of the games I had in mind literally had no story at all, or had such a bare skeleton of one as to be almost meaningless. FPS games largely haven't had to change mechanics and they've remained relevant the entire time. What I meant was that many genres that I was big into are no longer as popular and games within them don't get as much dev love because the consumer base wants its FPS games and genres that I don't play like MOBAs.
     
    ole!!! likes this.
  33. sicily428

    sicily428 Donuts!! :)

    Reputations:
    816
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Trophy Points:
    231
    You are welcome :)
    It should use this one
    Aetina gtx1080
    [​IMG]
     
    ole!!! likes this.
  34. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    young kids nowadays dont have the time and patience to appreciate movies/stories games at slow pacing. basically, people lack patience or becoming more and more lazy. if people are willing to learn to repair their own pc, learn about the hardware, basically learn about eveyrthing they do in life they'll easily understand (not prefer btw) why we choose LGA over BGA and LGA cpu usually at a much higher quality.
     
    Ashtrix and Donald@Paladin44 like this.
  35. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    man that 1080 wont work in p570wm or m18x r2 :(
     
  36. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

    Reputations:
    486
    Messages:
    3,148
    Likes Received:
    3,490
    Trophy Points:
    331

    I don't think it's the slow/pacing part, more like a lot of older games just straight up didn't have a story at all or had one that was simplistic like "Bad guys are here, shoot them in their faces". Nowadays every game is expected to have one so games that used to just hand you a shotgun and ask you to please apply a fine coating of alien blood to every surface are now given a "story" that seems half done and shallow.

    I do agree on the hardware side though. It needs to be more widely understood that PC enthusiasts have about as much in common with most users as that guy in his garage trying to eke every last bit of horsepower out of his car do with every day commuters and the hardware for the general audience is not for them in either case.
     
  37. sicily428

    sicily428 Donuts!! :)

    Reputations:
    816
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,988
    Trophy Points:
    231
    you are right
     
  38. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    i find new games are stale in terms of game play and game mechanics, and it seems people play for the stories and the looks which is quite boring, theres hardly any thinking part in most of the AAA games. games on the other hand RTS/FPS or dota/league requires more work and those are the ones i played the most. or super smash brothers, Tonyhawk pro skater etc.

    heres a good video


    video hit spots on many things really.
     
    Donald@Paladin44 and bennyg like this.
  39. DataShell

    DataShell Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    47
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    354
    Trophy Points:
    76
    I would actually argue the opposite. PC gaming is becoming more accessible and widespread, and the younger generation appears to be embracing it fully, just look at the success of Let's-Play channels on YouTube, or the popularity of games like Overwatch and LoL. It's teens and young adults keeping these things alive, not lads who reminisce about their Commodore '64s.
    In some respects you're definitely correct, but I think you're over-generalizing. Take MOBAs for example; they have long and steep learning curves relative to other genres, and yet the MOBA scene is mostly young people. Even games that have built-up, for a lack of a better word, 'cringey' fanbases populated mostly by children and teens like Undertale and Minecraft require a considerable amount of dedication and time to really get the most out of.
     
  40. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    @Mr. Fox sorry forgot to ask i thought u might know this since u own both clevo P870 and MSI tornado laptop. johnksss and meaker told me any of the clevo laptop with desktop CPU can't use it's iGPU due to clevo purposely design mobo that way. what about the MSI tornado 15" laptop could you use iGPU?
     
    Donald@Paladin44 likes this.
  41. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    1,310
    Messages:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    Trophy Points:
    181
  42. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    1,310
    Messages:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    2,588
    Trophy Points:
    181
    @Donald@HIDevolution may know

    If it does, you would need to source your own lcd panel. I don't think IGPU is compatible with either the G-sync or 120 Hz panel options sold
     
    ole!!! and Donald@Paladin44 like this.
  43. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

    Reputations:
    21,580
    Messages:
    35,370
    Likes Received:
    9,877
    Trophy Points:
    931
    That's a philosophical question that's hard to answer. It comes down to time and money. Same thing like with fixing your car or things around your house. I have to choose between what I fix and what I pay to fix or what I just pay to outright replace every so often. I don't have time to do it all. I don't have money to pay to fix everything. And if it's something you're not familiar with, it takes extra time to learn, and learning means mistakes, and mistakes means money.

    It also comes down to quality of manufactured goods too. PC's used to be all about interchangeability and self maintenance. Price has driven the quality of products down, and forced BGA components because that's what the market dictates. 90% of the people buy it in droves, because to them it's an appliance like a refrigerator or washing machine. They don't want to nor have the desire to learn how to fix it. It's not their hobby or in their extended interest.
     
  44. Donald@Paladin44

    Donald@Paladin44 Retired

    Reputations:
    13,989
    Messages:
    9,257
    Likes Received:
    5,842
    Trophy Points:
    681
    I am not aware of any laptop using an LGA CPU that has the iGPU enabled. This would include the EVOC 16L-G-1080 and the Tornado F5.
     
  45. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    bummer!! do they have similar issue with desktop as well? you know those desktop gaming setup with 120hz display and LGA desktop CPU. issue with iGP not used.
     
  46. Donald@Paladin44

    Donald@Paladin44 Retired

    Reputations:
    13,989
    Messages:
    9,257
    Likes Received:
    5,842
    Trophy Points:
    681
    Correct...I should have said I am not aware of any computer using an LGA CPU that has the iGPU enabled. iGPU is only meant for battery life savings, so why do you want to use it with an LGA CPU based computer?
     
    Papusan likes this.
  47. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,879
    Messages:
    5,952
    Likes Received:
    3,982
    Trophy Points:
    431
    for that reason saving battery when on the go, or using it during power outage. use it to troubleshoot dGP and still able to use computer while dGP is waiting for replacement.
     
  48. Donald@Paladin44

    Donald@Paladin44 Retired

    Reputations:
    13,989
    Messages:
    9,257
    Likes Received:
    5,842
    Trophy Points:
    681
    All good points. Too bad none of the manufacturers seem to have thought of them :(
     
  49. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    8,396
    Messages:
    5,992
    Likes Received:
    8,633
    Trophy Points:
    681
    Fair enough point. And there have been LGA desktops that have access to the iGPU. Having the iGPU available can be a life saver.
     
  50. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

    Reputations:
    42,706
    Messages:
    29,842
    Likes Received:
    59,621
    Trophy Points:
    931
    I fix it for yoo :D
    High end LGA desktops don't have iGPU!! And I really love it :D
    Mainstream LGA Cpu's is the laptop worlds HIGH END :D [​IMG]
     
    Mr. Fox and Donald@Paladin44 like this.
← Previous pageNext page →