Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake Z370 and Z390

Why isn't Intel getting more flak for this stunt?
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/75ib6t/_/

"Why isn't Intel getting more flak for this BS paper launch stunt? Have they Officially responded to the lack of product that was shipped to retailers?

Why would you do the release when you had no product available? Really f'ing a lot of people over here who rushed out and bought hardware and are now just sitting on it."

 

At the moment I'm pretty much taking every launch no matter the brand as "it won't actually ship for a while after, hold your horses"

 

people making rage, ask the people.

 

May I ask why you should buy 2.....?

 

When you can, it's a good rule of thumb. My reasons; either the product is so good you wish you had bought at least one more, or, one is faulty and (hopefully) the other just works.

Too many products shipped doa these days...

 

Friends #1, they will want one, or complain you have one and they don't

Spares #2 Should the first one fail... it creates a much more relaxed environment for experimentation, otherwise you're worried you'll burn out the 1 and only.

In demand means a client might need one, they don't take care and blow theirs out, White Knight to the rescue, years of happy memories.

DOA #3 A class all unto itself, one or both are DOA - if you have 2 DOA - maybe a damaged package, you have a better chance of getting the attention of the retailer for replacement - when they finally arrive back in stock.

Shipping savings #4 Bring the total up to over the free shipping limit - CPU's are different of course, but cheaper doodad's qualify often.

Need to fill the Spares drawer #5 Eventually you have enough parts to build one or two more computers, nice when the cold winter months get long.

So many more...

 

Having a spare is always a good thing when you want to delid and push for maximum overclocks. And yeah downtime is the absolute worst thing in the world. Not everyone has access to a high end laptop to game on if their brand new desktop has a defective part and they sold or discarded their Sandy Bridge parts...

 

Speaking of downtime, it's also always a good idea to buy an extra PSU when getting a new laptop, unless you already have a stable of PSU spare's.

When batteries were removeable, same for batteries, although for those I recommend 3. In case one dies, lost, or not charged - "damn, I thought I charged up all of those!"... 3 is better than 1

 

Newegg does not expect new i7 8700K stock for 3-5 weeks
That is a long wait
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp..._new_i7_8700k_stock_for_at_least_three_weeks/

Source

Shortages Plague Intel's Coffee Lake Launch
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-coffee-lake-shortage-cpu,35632.html

"Newegg, B&H Photo, and Amazon, among many others, don't have the processors in stock, and some have canceled preorder offers. Adding insult to injury, most of the lucky buyers have to wait 15 to 20 days for their units to ship."

 

Binning #0 With two you can bin your own chips. Sell the loser. Shouldn't be a problem with a new released chips(Huge lack of chips once they are released).

 

A good point, I know people who make money snapping up new products and selling them marked up while vendors try to get more to the shelves and even having one extra is nice.

 

Although you could flip one of the two, you'd want a larger quantity to really make either idea effective. Like a tray or two of CPU's from a couple of sources so you have a good cross section of samples

 

Still, I wouldn’t let the chance go out the door getting two or three chips, then pick the best one(of course If you have the money).

 

You always give your friend the fastest one, or sell the slowest one and keep the fastest one, but that's not so much binning as being aware and actively testing your components for performance.

 

Awesome Hardware #0124-A: Coffee Lake SCARCITY
51:45 Intel Core i7 8700k and i5 8600k avaliable in pre-binned varients.
56:53 Newegg does not expect new i7 8700K stock for at least 3 weeks.

Spoiler: Full Show Index

0:10 Intro
Disclaimer
1:05 Stores
3:10 Pauls giveaway, 1 day left!
*VR Update
4:30 Fallout 4 VR and Doom VFR preview.
9:06 Steam VR, Valve develops custom lenses for future Vr displays.
11:43 Beer, Kyles scared of corks... wonder why?
12:49 Cork pop.
14:35 Microsoft announces Halo: Recruit for Windows 10 VR.
17:00 *Pimp my PC: Mostly PIMPED! Edition
33:11 BURP!
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38:20 Headphone users ALERT!
*Tech News
39:21 Windows phone is officially dead. RIP
41:52 Google Pixel 2.
48:45 AMD RX Vega finally supported by Afterburner.
51:45 Intel Core i7 8700k and i5 8600k avaliable in pre-binned varients.
56:53 Newegg does not expect new i7 8700K stock for at least 3 weeks.

 

@Talon

Would you please, when have some time to spend, run CB15 at same defined clock(on all cores) of your choice but changing the cores used from Task Manager or by the software itself on 4/8thread.

This to evalute IPC gain over Skylake/Kabylake from an independent test as in this review? sorry 5 secs after the bookmark on vid, at 15:04


Thank you

 

Rewatch the video, it wasn't about IPC improvement - there isn't any:

Look at the wide range of results from the 8700k's reviewed, a wide range of performance, due to multi-core enhancement - overclock - enabled pushing the performance up higher than stock - the lowest actual scores in this graph are the "real" stock 8700k CB scores and also show turbo maximum isn't always achieved:

Watch the whole video again, there's a lot of good info in there.

If not for the multi-core enhancement OC + All Core Sync running all 4 cores at 4.7ghz instead of stock boost, bumping up the stock scores, the "real stock" 8700k is benchmarking CB under the stock Ryzen 7 1700x, and just over the Ryzen 5 1600x.

Much different results at stock, it seems too convenient to be accidental. These MB makers put the defaults in the BIOS to run the 8th generation CPU's with multi-core enhancement OC'd and All Core Sync, that's not cool.

jayz2cents blew catching the MCE "stock OC" + All Core Sync, and published bloated scores:

" JayzTwoCents 19 hours ago
FOR THE RECORD.... after we were called out for testing with default board settings (by the audience by the way, not you) ASUS reached out to me to explain that MCE is OFF by default and Sync all Cores should NOT have been enabled by default, I explained to them that this is indeed FALSE.

ASUS themselves aren't even clear on what the default settings were and it was only after clearing CMOS again and showing them what the optimized defaults are did they agree that they need to reel in their BIOS team and get to the bottom of this...

I also said in my video that we as reviewers need to be better at this, so although you calling me out in this video is accurate, I had already updated my content showing where the discrepancy was.

...channel infighting redacted...

As for the "Intel hiding something" of course they are... they are widening their stack on purpose... It sucks, but its business and it doesn't take much investigative research to figure that out."

But, it's clear a number of reviewers didn't catch this and published bloated scores at "stock". This is really annoying for reviewers, getting caught in the middle of this effort to pump up stock scores. You trust the vendor to play straight, and then this happens.

IDK how this is going to shake out, but it's clear score pumping occurred, due to Intel's inability to dramatically outperform Ryzen at "real" stock settings.

 

Reviewer caught CHEATING!

AMD Ryzen vs Intel Coffee Lake - CPU Rematch!


Read this post as well as jayz2cents comment from the youtube video quoted (watch that AdoredTV video too):
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...coffee-lake-z370.809268/page-17#post-10614718

 

LOL, Volkswagen Emission-gate anyone?

 

Yup, and it's not just the 8700k, it's also going to affect the scores from the other CPU sku's reviewed on those same z370 motherboards.

 

Let me ask, when MCE is enabled - is the processor (or any other component) running at a higher voltage?

If it is; that is O/C'd.

If it isn't; that would be my definition of 'stock'.

 

Lol, last intel vid is 1,52 on specs, about 1,40v of vcore.. Put in case you have a good temps, did you really like to put that voltage on your new shiny cpu, without overclock it decently? Because to me seems abysmal thing for clock reached

 

Sorry, I don't understand your reply?

What are the (relevant) voltages without MCE and what are they with MCE enabled? If in fact they change when that option is 'ON'.

 

True, I think they got the most money out of getting a bunch of Nintendo consoles each year before the holiday sell-out, but if chips are going to start being that way, might be a way to make some. If I had thought of it with mining GPUs I might have done something like that myself.

 

Yes, the voltage is higher - Jay pointed this out in his Apology video and Re-test video, that's why he thinks he needed to move to water-cooling for the 8700k even on stock settings.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...coffee-lake-z370.809268/page-17#post-10614749

@Talon found the same MCE on by default problem, affecting his "stock" benchmarking:

 

Thanks for the clear answer.

 

Aha, I always wondered why the 5775C in the Mini itx box ran at x37 with no partial turbo multipliers ever, now I realise its the Asus motherboard with MCE on by default.

This is early 2015 hardware, this surely can't have been missed by reviewers for this long? Is it just now being discovered now that max single vs multicore turbo is more than a couple hundred mhz/ a few %?

 

At the end of the day the 8700K, 8600K, and 8400 just spank on all things Ryzen. They have excellent productivity, and far superior gaming performance. Who really give a **** if Asus boards are enabling MCE by 'default'. Although I think Asus should certainly inform the consumer of it's default status. The system doesn't become unstable and isn't crashing, and at the end of the day most consumers would prefer to get better performance out of their new shiny system. Most hardcore power users are going to manually tweak their clocks and voltage anyways.

 

People forget the platform is just released. Bios updates is in works. See.. F.eks Guru3.com tested 8700K with abnormal low scores(CBR15 - 1230cb). Now fixed with bios update. It's only storm in a water glass

 

Haven’t forgotten about your request. Just got home to my desktop from a 4 day trip so will get to working.

 

Actually Guru3d got 1296cb the first time, I posted that graph of reviewers CB15 results enough times, it's right there in the graph

The 2nd graph has fewer entries because he couldn't get 7700k results from some reviewers, he wanted to show that previous testing with the 7700k had much more stable results showing from all the reviewers, with results grouping closely around an average.

This shows the problems with 8700k out the door, as it was such a rush job noone was able to get it right the first time, and now we wait for some (most?) to get fixes out to get better results.

I wonder what the real stock scores will end up being in the long run?

 

Thanks for the correction. Some in the forum said reviewers never made mistakes in their reviews of products

New review Intel Core i7-8700K, i5-8400, and i3-8350K Comptoir du Hardware (fr) (Cbr15 - 1419cb).

 

Stock CB score is around 1400-1450 depending on memory speed it seems. I score at stock (real stock) 4.3Ghz on all cores under load 1436 with 3200Mhz memory.

1296CB is an a joke and a total AMD shill. It's been shown from numerous sources that 1400+ is the stock CB bench. I'm not sure why people continue to quote these ridiculously low CB scores when they're obviously not accurate, and some were from pre-release ES chips. I'm sorry but looking at some videos the revisions on those chips are different from my retail sample and are therefore not accurate representations of what actual retail hardware performs like. It is highly unlikely that there is a 1000+ point variance between chips unless someone screwed the pooch on their benchmarking.

 

@hmscott , idk if this right thread for asking this question, when the intel processor 8700 mobile(for laptop) will launched ?

 

IDK, I'd watch the rumor sites and see when Intel announces. The last rumor I heard was Feb 2018.

 

The average shown so far is about 1425cb, but I don't know how many if any are Retail versions as the reviews released on release day, so likely as not they are all engineering samples.

I think you'd do yourself a favor by not using the word "shill", as I think all of the reviewers including Guru3d that got the 1296cb pride themselves as being independent and not on either side. I trust their scores more now than the ones from the highest published scores as those were run at MCE Turbo boosted 4.7ghz x4 instead of stock Turbo speeds.

Guru3d updated their CB score after BIOS updates and now show 1402cb:

"Note: After the initial 8700k review there have been a number of BIOS updates. We list this proc slightly higher at 1402 points, which we consider to be the final number at standard clocks and standard Intel turbo bins. This score is fairly similar across most motherboards."
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i7_8700k_processor_review,7.html

 

ASRock Fatal1ty Z370 Gaming K6 Motherboard Review + Linux Test

MSI Z370 Godlike Gaming Review + Linux Test

https://level1techs.com/article

 

https://translate.google.com/transl...attention-aux-overclockings-automatiques.html

MOOAAARR POWWAA!

 

Asus Strix Z370 Full Unedited RANT

ASUS Z370 Strix E and Strix F Review
https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_z370_strix_e_and_strix_f_review/1

 

HW News: Intel H370, B360
0:44 Intel Leaks Chipsets/Cpus

Spoiler: Full Show Index

0:44 Intel Leaks Chipsets/Cpus
4:28 Zen 2 2019, Zen+ 2018
5:54 Vega AIB Cards Gigabyte/MSI
9:44 New DDR4
11:28 EVGA ePOWER VRM
12:32 WD 12TB HDD

 

And Guru3d.com used What? ... What Memory clock speed? In Coffee lake... Is this a JOKE? You said the word Trust... I and none of you should trust 100% on reviewers. You have to gather up correct info by yourself!! @Donald@HIDevolution @Phoenix @Mr. Fox


Scores will depend on what memory sticks (Speed +timings) you use!! Why not see behind what they in fact use for gather up the results they post? Is 2131MHz ram sticks the standard for Coffee lake?

 

Amazon sent my 8700k to Kentucky -- 3 days later, IT'S FINALLY HERE
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/7698cv/amazon_sent_my_8700k_to_kentucky_3_days_later_its/

" TylerJNA[ S] 1 point 21 hours
Some people might've seen my post the other day about Amazon shipping out my 8700k with an estimate delivery date of 10/10 - 10/11. Well, that didn't happen. I assumed that it was some kind of error and that there actually weren't any in stock.

Turns out... they somehow managed to send it to Kentucky. And I paid extra on top of Prime for 1-day shipping. Welp.

(I ordered at 11:58AM EST on October 5th, for anyone wondering.)"

" mkrmec 5 points 13 hours ago
Quickly put it in the motherboard before Intel changes the chipset on you."

" fapperdoodle 6 points 21 hours ago
This supports the theory that Amazon did have some in stock, but a very limited amount since I ordered at 12:00 pm est and didnt get any update."

" altabuse 2 points 20 hours ago
Same & no update"

" sky2934 1 point 20 hours ago
Same, I've just finished talking to an Amazon Rep just now in regard to it and asked for the ETA again anyways. Seems like they've changed their answer from random dates to "we don't know and we don't want to give out fake ETA's anymore"."

 

They can run whatever memory speed they want, as long as they tell us what they used, and they did.

The previous 7700k used 2133mhz the 8700k says 2666mhz memory, but I think there will certainly be people using 2133mhz memory so it's good to have a review with results based on that configuration.

 

I'm 100% sure they can F**** it up. As you have seen... A big mess!!

 

Calm down, it's at least better than the reviewers that left MCE on, didn't notice it, and didn't disclose it.

You can *trust* guru3d, they published their testing spec's and gave us updated results with new BIOS updates.

I think most reviewers used 2933 / 3000 / 3200 memory in their tests.

So if we are talking mess, it's that noone ran the stock memory speed on the stock testing configurations, and that's gonna skew the results up higher than stock.

From the data in this graph, the scores for PCGH and Anadtech suggest that they used 2666mhz memory:

The Anandtech Coffeelake Review: 8700k and 8400 Initial Numbers
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1185...-lake-review-8700k-and-8400-initial-numbers/5
Memory Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR4-2666 4x8 GB

Core i7-8700K, i5-8600K and i5-8400 in the CPU test: Intel on the limit - Coffee Lake is there [Update: Availability]
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Coffe...7-8700K-i5-8600K-i5-8400-Test-Review-1240339/

"In our test motherboard, the Asus Maximus X Hero, was with the UEFI pre-release 0404 about the OC-mode active, once you changed the DDR4 clock rates manually - so even if you activated the actually specified DDR4-2667. Then the 65W processor moved permanently over 90 watts. Unfortunately, the JEDEC standard DDR4-2133 in favor of better compatibility is the default setting which the UEFI grabs with most brisk DDR4 modules. We could happily raise in the fundus, which already had a JEDEC standard DDR4-2667, so that we could perform our tests under normal conditions a couple DDR4 bars."

If I transliterate that correctly then they decided to jump from the motherboard BIOS default chosen 2133mhz to 2667mhz.

Perhaps that's why guru3d left the motherboard default (stock) choice of 2133mhz?

So at 2666mhz the CB15 score: 1354cb, 1364cb

 

I think Hothardware.com tested with maximum officially supported speed for the given platform (without overclocking). If we shall trust them You're welcome, bruh

 

Nice try

They must have run with "MCE Enabled" equivalent, and were running 4.7ghz x 4 instead of 4.3ghz, their 1522cb score is right in the middle of the "cheaters" range:

Refresh my last post, I updated with 2 reviews that used stock CPU speeds and 2666mhz memory, and their scores were much more realistic: 1354cb and 1364cb

 

HeHe. One more!! Hope this one work, LOOL

 

Man those scores are all over the place, aren't they? Kinda hard to depend on CB15 scores when they range from 1354cb - 1415cb all at 2666mhz memory and stock speeds..

Someone needs to sit down and vary all the variables, and find out how much each contributes to the end result score from CB.

 

I use 2666MHz and bench CBR15 - 957-960cb with 4.3GHz + 50% more cores and you have 1435cb. With less optimized systems as Coffee vs. mine who is more mature lets say 1425cb when everything is correct. I'm sure the core scaling shouldn't fuss up and IPC is exactly the same for Coffee and Kaby. We have to see what's coming. Too early and the plattform is new and aint mature yet + we haven't 100% answers on the core scaling.