Intel Core i7-8750H/ i7-8850H/ i9-8950H Coffee Lake

i7-8700k Recommended Customer Price$359.00 - $370.00

 

Because of Intel and the OEM corporate In better words... They want your money. What you get in return doesn't matter.

 

Why, intel, just why ......

 

It used to be even more absurd.

https://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/6488...essor-Extreme-Edition-8M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

 

*snorts water out of nose*
And too think, its gotten $800 less

 

At least you could get a binned chips. Not a binned motherboard.

 

true dat, and atleast it was easily end user serviceable

 

You can still replace the old with a new Motherboard

 

1797 usd

 

I don't know what a new MB with i9-8950Hk and 1080 will cost. If you is able to find it after a year or two after your warranty has expired. And for the correct model. Don't forget the screwdriver toolbox set.

 

I had to remove a number of posts in this thread that were off-topic/irrelevant.
Keep it civil.
Charles

 

As a blanket statement this is not supportable

Thin BGA high performance laptops (gotta compare apples to other apples) are routinely mid 50s / 60ish dBa on maximum noise in a number of different reviews

MaxQ is aimed at a dBa ceiling with the deliberate choice to heat up rather than spin up.

It's also simple physics that more heat from more performance means more required airflow, and reducing radiator volume and fin surface area (by thinning everything out) increases the airflow required to convect the same heat quantity to air

The P870DM, which I have used, was no louder than a "normal" performance laptop.

The N950TP I just set up for my brother ran its 6 core i5 8400 stock at 80C and doesn't spin beyond medium fans until 10+ minutes of full avx load benchmark. I haven't even bothered swapping out the stock paste.

The P870DM3 has its dead-waking 12V fans to cool the ~400W worth of SLI 1080s, and the CPU cooling performance is not that much greater than the DM despite having more airflow AND a bridge section to shunt heat over to the giant gpu VC heatsink. I also have never had it spin up to that maximum speed in normal use, not even Crysis 3 on ultra 4K (after replacing stock paste with LM and fixing the too-thick stock VC heatsink thermal pads)

 

Sorry, I thought you were a Clevo "Fan".

I'll catch up on your posts at some point. Thanks.

 

I

Im literally so confused right now
Just because I like one thing I can't like another brand? Wild...

Since you seem to require it, my explanation for liking AW's (All models before Echo) is that they are very aesthetically pleasing, and run cool and decently quiet. The same goes for Clevos. Notice a pattern?

 

IDK how many times I can say it plainly, but I am not talking about auto-fan or "normal" operation, I am talking about benchmarking mode where all the cooling possible is needed to get the best scores, the noise generated as in the video (included below for your convenience) is horrendous.

Why else would you suffer with a Clevo LGA laptop other than to run it at the full performance you paid for? Detuning it because it's too noisy, to the lower noise and performance level of a BGA laptop, seems like a waste of investment.

And, the guys that have to constantly post their new "high score", or compare scores from their 1000's of hours of tuning to a new out of the box laptop with no tuning are all running at that tornado level of fan noise.

That's why I said you can't compare high scores from 100% fan runs and then post low noise scores from auto-fan tests. They are 2 different mutually exclusive worlds of operation.

Can the LGA laptop be tuned to run as quietly as a thin BGA laptop, of course it can, but at those settings it's not going to score it's highest potential of benchmark scores either.

And, what's the point of getting an LGA laptop only to detune it to BGA noise levels? Seems like a waste of weight and $ to tote around a detuned LGA laptop.

If you are going to go to that extreme in desktop performance hardware squished into a laptop, then run it with 100% fans and maximum OC all the time, and get your money's worth.

Listen starting at 06:50 for 100% fans under benchmark load, and at 02:25 during idle with 100% fan.

Sager NP9873 / Clevo P870DM3 Fan Noise and Cooling
htwingnut


Sager NP9873 / Clevo P870DM3 Quick Review by HTWingNut
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/sager-np9873-clevo-p870dm3-quick-review-by-htwingnut.795187/

Removing redundant "slave" fan in Clevo laptops.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/removing-redundant-slave-fan-in-clevo-laptops.821139/

 

It wasn't very plain IMO, you just posted a variety of tests with a few quotes. If you wanted to make it obvious, you should have taken more action to do so. I don't believe anyone in the entire history of owning a DTR laptop has purposly sacrificed thermals and raw performance for noise. There would be no point, as they could by some name-brand piece of trash BGA'd laptop. As well, you don't need to constantly run at MAX speed, thats just insane to think. If you want max benchmarks, sure why not? I don't see the issue here, for normal day-to-day tasks, the fans on anything should never be maxed out, DTR or actual Desktop

 

Instead of trading anecdotes (my personal ones are obviously discarded because they don't fit your opinion) how about some data-based comparisons.

Spend some time browsing the notebookcheck database of noise levels here (add the column "Load Max" and edit the URL to show more than 500 results, I couldn't find a way to reorder by highest noise levels first)
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Benchmarks-and-Test-Results.142793.0.html

 

And out of the top 11 noisiest (>=60dB):



5/11: MSI
3/11: Aorus
3/11: Clevo LGA

Hmmm...

 

Some Intel Core i9 laptops are not running any faster than a Core i7
There are generational performance leaps, and then there is pure marketing. The Core i9 series has so far been leaning towards the latter in terms of raw performance. In some cases, the CPU may even be slower than the Core i7.

The Coffee Lake-H Core i9 series, however, has been a mixed bag. When compared to the Core i7-8750H, the Core i9-8950HK can range from anywhere between 0 percent to 30 percent faster in multi-threaded workloads. In other words, some laptops are selling at premium Core i9 prices while providing a performance level very similar to that of a cheaper Core i7 configuration.

We've already tested a handful of Core i9 laptops including the Aorus X9 DT, MSI GT75, Asus Chimera G703GI, Alienware 15 R4, and the Eurocom Q8. The latter two in particular return disappointing CineBench R15 results with scores not unlike some competing laptops with the less expensive Core i7-8750H. The graph below illustrates how a number of Core i9 laptops are curiously underperforming despite being an unlocked HK-class processor.

---------------------------------------------------

Yeah, lets start with latest review of Alienware 15 R4 and Alienware 17 R5. Both with unlocked i9-8950Hk and adverticed with 5.0GHz.

The first notebook with the Intel Core i9-8950HK in the test, the new Alienware 15 R4-techtest.org


Clock, temperature and volume
Let's start with a few problems. Alienware advertises the 15 R4 in combination with the i9-8950HK up to 5GHz. The i9-8950HK has no 5GHz, but only 4.8GHz. The missing 200Mhz come from an OC fashion. This OC mode did not work so well for me. In the Alienware control center this is active, but the clock initially does not exceed 4.8 GHz in any situation. Until then after several reboots suddenly 4.9GHz were seen, but not the advertised 5GHz. Maybe this is because I reinstalled Windows and there is a bug somewhere, but in the end, I decided that this 200MHz would not make the roast fat.

As with all current notebook CPUs, you have to enjoy the clock very carefully. The i9-8950HK has no 4.8GHz, but only 2.9GHz.

Anything over 2.9GHz is a bonus, depending on how many cores your load, how the temperature is, etc.

If you only load individual cores and this only for a short time, these 4.8 GHz are also achieved. Therefore, the single core performance of the Alienware 15 R4 is also extremely strong.

However, if all 6 cores are loaded at the same time, as in a video export, the clock falls to 3.0-3.4 GHz. Here the i9 reaches its 45W PowerLimit.


The temperature will settle here depending on the fan setting at 78-84 degrees. For a short while, during the boost to 4.8GHz but also just under 100 degrees are reached!

-----------------------------------------------

 

"Apple’s new top-end MacBook Pro 15-inch, with the optional Core i9 CPU, is markedly slower than last year’s Core i7 design despite fielding two more CPU cores."

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-core-i9-throttling-found-on-new-macbook-pros

I7-8850h model throttles too down to i5-8300h levels of performance, <900cb r15

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-n...nd-clearly-beaten-by-the-XPS-15.317264.0.html

 

ftfy, hun.

 

Eurocom, are you nuts?

How can this cooling keep an i9 in check when the i7 8750H IN THE SAME CHASSIS can barely remain operational in the smaller Q6 (with the same heat sink config) without an undervolt?

 

**** this, here's the chassis of the Q6:



And this is with the i7 8750H. Clearly separate heatsinks for both the CPU AND the GPU.

So, why, in the seven hells does the Q8's chassis insist on a fused heatsink assembly? In what alternate universe is THIS a good idea? Who, at Clevo, designed this atrocious, half-assed cooling system?
What happened to Quality Control? Because this is the kind of **** you DO NOT LAUNCH.

 

This isn't even marketing, its' sabotage.

Quick one, do these vendors actually have a QA department? Is there someone tasked with the job of actually testing a product for fitness of use before launch?

How does this make it past QA?

I get it, all these fellows (Apple included) care primarily on generating sales, but at this rate, this is self sabotage.

 

I just hope they don't mess up the P870TM1's successor, which will have an 8-core CFL-S Processor and 1180 to cool. Please Clevo. Don't mess that up.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

Hopefully, but DTR seem to have been going to the way of do-do

 

The closed loop internal watercooling setup in the P870x is yet to be seen...

But yes, Clevo don't screw it up with insane rubbish for your halo product like 480W system limit

 

We can only pray, my friend


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Seems you people have forgot that there is already soldered an 4th fan header on the P870TM motherboard. And the coming 8 cores will most likely be the same 95w TDP. And much can be done with better and stronger fans.

 

Not forgotten that at all bro. Just feel that watercooling would be cool (pardon the pun), but is likely to remain a dream for the near future. I am looking forward to the 4th fan and hopefully a better keyboard. @Phoenix


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

The best part, is that the fan is smaller, the fins on the CPU heatsink are smaller and it lost the top fins with the heatpipe going around, it has half the previous fin area, that is some smart cost cutting /s...

 

Core i9 Done Right! - Acer Helios 500
Dave Lee
Review of the Acer Predator Helios 500. The most powerful gaming laptop from Acer. With an overclockable i9 - 8950HK, GTX 1070 and up to 64 gigs RAM, the Helios 500 delivers some crazy performance. This is one of the best performing laptops for the price. Excellent thermal performance with easily upgraded hardware. Acer did a fantastic job on this. It's not as durable as an Alienware device but it will be cheaper and lighter with awesome performance.

 

Not much better Processor performance results from this review of Alienware 17R5 and i9-8950Hk either.



At least not 100C. Saved by Power limit Throttling?

 

It’s time to call out laptop manufacturers for their ******** CPU throttling

 

It’s time to call out laptop manufacturers for their ******** CPU throttling
Exactly what I have said several times latest years... Don't put all the blame on Intel. Up to the OEM's make/design a cooling capable to cool the BGA chips. The damn STUPID idea FORCED ON ALL... THIN and flimsy madness must STOP!!

When we talked to Intel about the Core M situation, the company explained that it had given OEMs more freedom to set certain specifications for their own systems. One example the company gave was skin temperature: If OEMs wanted to specify a low skin temperature that had the side effect of keeping the CPU clock speed from turboing as high as a competitive system from a different OEM that traded a higher skin temperature for better thermal performance, that was fine by Intel — even if it also meant two systems with the same CPU might perform very differently.
​

OEMs Should Create Guaranteed Non-Throttling Systems
There’s an opportunity in all of this mess if companies are brave enough to seize it. Instead of shipping laptops that rely on false claims and customer apathy concerning a global problem in the industry, OEMs could certify that their laptops don’t throttle. Instead of simply assuming that customers demand thinness at the expense of all else, try offering performance-maximized systems that deliver what they claim instead of obfuscating it.
This consumer-hostile, ******** behavior needs to stop and it needs to stop now.

Inte'l wont Stop sell their chips to the OEM's or claim that they create better cooling... It's a reason Intel put 45w TDP for the unlocked $600 usd i9-8950Hk... What the OEM's will do with the i9 BGA chips... Doesn't really matter for Intel. Higher sales beats the Throttling mess or bad reputation!!

It's a reason I created my newest Avatar as it is last fall. My avatar show my feelings about today's Tragedy in tech world... See above. Everything is a mess.


Edit. I have put up the "Crippling Performance with all types dirty tricks" on the agenda long time ago. Also in this thread... How Dell cripple performance. And as you probably know... Dell ain't alone doing this.

 

"The chances that this happens in an industry devoted to squeezing out every nickel of profit as opposed to delivering a superior customer experience is negligible. But it’s what ought to happen. Either way, we’re through tolerating this behavior. We’re not claiming Apple was the first company to cross the line between “flexible configurations” and “Unacceptable throttling,” but the line has been crossed. This consumer-hostile, ******** behavior needs to stop and it needs to stop now."

 

I agree.

 

Manufacturers want to release new machines in this stagnant market to make a profit and because they are worried that the competition gets the upper hand. But I agree the current 8th gen core i7/i9 machines are just unfit for their purposes and customers. Apart from 1 super thick acer machine I saw no machine cooling the i9 well enough and all current hexacore models have some form of limits or throttling. Its a step too far for the current form factors which customers seem to prefer to buy.

Because it's force fed onto consumers and there are not other reliant alternatives. This will keep happening. I dont blame the manufacturers, I blame intel for pushing a too hto CPU with underspecced requirements. they still label the i9 as a 45watt tdp cpu. Where this was true in the past while boosting. its now barely enough for baseclocks and in some workloads not enough. Intel pushes they reference specs and cooling requirements and manufacturers base their design on this before the chips come roling of the assembly line.

 

Razer Blade 2018 Review, Too Thin For a Six-Core CPU! (Apple Has Company)
Hardware Unboxed
Published on Jul 24, 2018

 

Intel put the 45w moniker for selling most possible chips. No other reason for the TDP. But this doesn't tell the whole story. I'm quite sure the OEM's receive enough info from Intel regarding how much power their chips will use in specific loads. Intel have changed and now put more of the work on the OEM manufactures (freedom to set certain specifications for their own systems).

The OEM can't deliver. Or won't deliver due increased costs for them. All they care about make it thinnest possible and with pretty design. The performance and cooling come last.​

As you can see... Dell speced the machine with own power limits for short-term consumption as high as 78W (for 28 seconds) and 56W for sustained load. The OEM itself can put the limits. When they can do that, they should also be able to make better cooling or just use Intels 45w specs for sustained load.

And Dell themself put the 5.0GHz moniker for i9-8950Hk in their newest Alienware Gamingbook jokes. Not INTEL!!

See... Don't put the blame on Intel for this... If Dell want increase the Power limits... Damn, why not make a cooling for the increased power limits that they are solely responsible for by themself?


Edit... If you can't see the pict above.

We already reviewed the entry-level SKU of the new Dell XPS 9570 with the Coffee Lake quad-core processor. The cooling solution did not have big issues with the smaller processor, so we were eager to find out how it handles the faster hexa-core CPU. We are testing a unit with the Core i7-8750H right now and already performed some benchmarks.

Dell increased the power limits of the processor. As long as the temperature is not too high, the short-term consumption can be as high as 78W (for 28 seconds) and 56W for sustained load. We can observe up to 71W during the start of Cinebench R15, but not all the cores reach the maximum frequency of 3.9 GHz.

 

"Following extensive performance testing under numerous workloads, we've identified that there is a missing digital key in the firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro. A bug fix is included in today's macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 Supplemental Update and is recommended. We apologize to any customer who has experienced less than optimal performance on their new systems. Customers can expect the new 15-inch MacBook Pro to be up to 70% faster, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar to be up to 2X faster, as shown in the performance results on our website."

 

" we've identified that there is a missing digital key in the firmware that impacts the thermal management system and could drive clock speeds down under heavy thermal loads on the new MacBook Pro."

Wow, I bet all those other laptop makers with overheating and throttling 8th Gen CPU's must have missed that "magic number" too?

Those little bitty cases chocked full of stuff including little bitty fans that just don't have enough air flow to expel heat, are the real problem.

Unleashing more power and raising sustained CPU boost frequencies is going to quickly negate any "magic" and hit the thermal throttling quicker - dropping clocks and performance.

Maybe Apple is going to raise the Thermal Throttling point?

105c sounds like fun...

That'll get a nice Cherry Red Glow to the Aluminum going, great for illuminating shiny Xmas decorations.

Maybe there really is an Apple "magic number" that warps the Macbook Pro into the "Apple Reality Distortion Field", allowing it to defy the laws of thermodynamics?!!

 

Add in this also...

"Which, makes us wonder that is the addition of a missing digital key the only thing the latest macOS High Sierra 10.13.6 update will fix? Or will Apple sneakily adjust VRM specifications as well? After all, ‘impacts thermal management system’ is a sweeping categorization and can also include stricter TDP enforcements on the Core-i9. Additionally, Apple’s tradition of late-kicking fans for the MacBook Pro lineup might also have been changed, with the fans now set to kick in sooner."

 

There are so many things Apple could tune to bring the MacBook Pro closer to a "real" laptop, but it's all stuck in a tiny enclosure with little bitty fans - it might squeal a lot louder - hell it might even levitate - but I doubt it's going reach and hold boost or stop thermal throttling under sustained load.

At best Apple might get it to "hang on long enough" to get better benchmark results for the short running tests, but under long rendering sessions it's gonna fall back to where it's been already benchmarking.

 

Blaming Intel is just silly. It's not their fault (or their problem) that people who manufacture notebooks are idiots.

Hopefully, consumers will soon begin to recognize the real villains are the half-assed laptop manufacturers that do such a crappy job of building broken trashbooks, and the consumers themselves for demanding thin and light junk and expecting it to actually work correctly. Sure, Intel is 100% at fault for implementation of crippled BGA filth CPUs for notebooks, but the laptop manufacturers are responsible for everything else that makes BGA notebooks such terribly broken products that function "as intended" LOL. The question they do not dare to answer is "Intended by whom?" because that puts them in the hot-seat and makes them accountable for incompetence.

 

Gotta love the Mac Users

After the OS / firmware fix, many are now saying there never was a problem with the fans or cooling, it's all fixed now.

6to8design an hour ago
"Wait a minute, didn't the CPU reach temps of 99C?

MRizkBV an hour ago
"They still do but that is not the issue. Apple has always allowed MBP to reach 100c and that is not an issue.
The real issue was the power control apparently which they fixed using a software update."

So now the MacBook Pro is back to normal, with the same design problems from using a thin chassis with poor thermal management, providing crappy performance and sucky cooling like it always has.

Apple pushing out performance fix for MacBook Pro 2018
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comm...out_performance_fix_for_macbook_pro/?sort=new

 

I just burned out my eyes from reading a few comments from that reddit

 

Core i9 MacBook Pro - After the Patch
Dave Lee
Published on Jul 24, 2018
Supplementary patch for the 2018 MacBook Pro Laptops was released. Does this finally makes it the best laptop from Apple?
Original review - https://youtu.be/Dx8J125s4cg
They had thermal issues with their new 15" Core i9 Laptop and this patch addresses it for Premiere Pro.

 

Sorry, Apple. But that's not a solution.

What this line of hardware needs is a truly re-designed cooling system, not fancy workarounds to mask the underlying issue.

 

But then again, knowing Apple's clientele, they'll buy this as a definitive solution.

Herd mentality reigns supreme.