Intel’s Core-X i9 and i7 series (x299) & Xeon (1P/2P)

Take power draw of a Ryzen 8 core @ 4ghz and doubling it is already a scary number... Let alone 5ghz

 

This is from a retailer, so get out the salt shakers.

 

The guys at Level1 speak briefly to this here:

Level1 News July 3, 2017: In Japan, They Call It The Radeon Balrog
13:02 - Overclocker Claims Intel X299 VRM Temps are a 'Disaster' With Skylake-X
And they say they are doing an in depth test themselves; I'll watch for it and post it here when it shows up.

Spoiler: Full Index

Article URL's referenced in show:
https://www.one-tab.com/page/39lLV2myQ3OIwUnG3H9qLw

0:23 - Germany approves plans to fine social media firms up to €50m
2:48 - New Lawsuit Demands ISP Blockades Against 'Pirate' Site Sci-Hub
5:52 - The Radeon Vega Frontier Edition 16GB Air Cooled Review
12:28 - Radeon Loom
13:02 - Overclocker Claims Intel X299 VRM Temps are a 'Disaster' With Skylake-X
16:28 - France drops Windows 10 privacy case after Microsoft changes telemetry settings
17:29 - London Met Police's 18,000 Windows XP PCs is a disaster waiting to happen
18:01 - HMS Queen Elizabeth is 'running outdated Windows XP', raising cyber attack fears
19:03 - NSA's use of 'traffic shaping' allows unrestrained spying on Americans
21:23 - Google Loses Supreme Court of Canada Case Over Search Results
22:24 - A Bunch Of CIA Contractors Got Fired For Stealing Snacks From Vending Machines
24:38 - China's 'big brother' reality
25:46 - DOJ Asks The Supreme Court To Give It Permission To Search Data Centers Anywhere In The World
26:34 - Petya Ransomware Outbreak Originated in Ukraine via Tainted Accounting Software
26:34 - Turns Out New Petya is Not a Ransomware, It's a Destructive Wiper Malware
28:19 - Proposed bill would make doxxing a federal crime
29:53 - Victoria Police to Withdraw 8000 Traffic Tickets After Roadside Cameras Infected with WannaCry Virus
31:18 - ISPs Are No Longer Even Bothering To Provide Bogus Excuses For Their Expanding Use Of ******** Usage Caps
32:38 - Fayette Home Invasion: Suspects in court for killing 74-year-old
33:59 - Fired Employee Hacks and Shuts Down Smart Water Readers in Five US Cities
35:29 - Nvidia to launch graphics cards specifically designed for digital currency mining
38:16 - Amazon Robots Poised to Revamp How Whole Foods Runs Warehouses
39:47 - There's No Money in Internet Culture
41:58 - Sushi robots and vending-machine pizza will reinvent the automat
44:25 - "It will combat crime": Robocop cars join Dubai's futuristic police force
46:23 - Volvo's driverless cars 'confused' by kangaroos
48:04 - The Mere Presence of Your Smartphone Reduces Brain Power, Study Shows
49:06 - The Army is flight testing helicopter-mounted laser weapons
50:04 - Super Nintendo Classic Coming in September
52:06 - Facebook crosses 2 billion monthly users
52:45 - Bionic bartenders deployed at Las Vegas Strip bar: But can you bend their ear?
54:35 - Fun Machine Learning Sketch Shenanigans Dazzle YouTube Viewers

 

They address it a bit more specifically. I would agree the issue is in overclocking at 4.5 GHz or better where 280w is trying to be drawn through the 8 pin. You can see where going to 12,14,16 and 18 core on these boards could be very concerning. Running a stock 7900x hopefully should not be.

Now there is the issue as mentioned about the ripple effect on the 12v rail. This too can be a concern, even at stock speeds. I do not subscribe to the thought of there are other connections etc.. The issue there is you start porting the 12v rail across the board it can cause other issues as it draws from the 12v rail from other circuits. The circuitry is not designed to transfer current in this manner. It is like a car having a bunch of bad grounds where you turn on the wipers and the radio comes on trying to draw the ground from your speakers. I know this is an over simplification but I just want to get the point across.

 

It is an Intel link;
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-is-staffing-a-design-team-for-a-revolutionary-new-processor-core

 

not bad https://siliconlottery.com/collections/lga-2066
not bad at all!

 

Out of 7900x's

 

Ha!!, Ryzen are much better!!.

The *most* expensive SiliconLottery Ryzen is $130 cheaper than the *least* expensive SiliconLottery Intel i9!!

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/pga-1331

 

"Good fortune favor's the out-of-stock desire", you saved $1000 !!

 

eta july 6th rofl.

its not about ryzen being cheaper tbh, at least not at these price point which we are very use to intel over charging premium. it is a premium option over what AMD doesnt have, binned chip with high frequency along with high core counts. 8 cores at 4.8-5ghz isnt just a dream anymore but it'll only work with water cooling, which is fine for desktop.

 

400W+ in a worst case scenario, for a user oriented CPU... is inhumane, and the sh** is not even delidded!

 

Intel Core i9 7900X Benchmarks: Everything You Need to Know


muiecopyright 7 hours ago
You see AMD this is why your processors are not good and people don't buy them, because you can't even make an omelet on your processors. Intel can make me dinner, therefore Intel is better.

 

Oh god, Salazar. I'm not drunk enough to endure that guy...

 

Awesome Hardware #0112-B: ETH Mining Sucks Now, New Pixel XL, Net Neutrality Day
49:22 The Skylake-X Mess Explored: Thermal Paste, Runaway Power
56:10 Der8auer’s “X299 VRM Disaster” Update

Spoiler: Article links

The Skylake-X Mess Explored: Thermal Paste And Runaway Power
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/-intel-skylake-x-overclocking-thermal-issues,5117-4.html
Der8auer’s “X299 VRM Disaster” Update - Already posted this one

 

ASUS Rampage VI Apex VRM check - the savior of X299?
der8auer finds a "good" one

 

Intel is LOSING its DIGNITY - WAN Show July 14, 2017

Spoiler: Topic Timing Index=Several of Interest Highlighted

0:00 Intro...
4:08 Zillow orders popular blog to take down photos
11:55 Stupid juice machine now “only” $200
16:55 Luke talks about being at Twitch in Silicon Valley
17:55 Luke's mum calls up for a guest call
20:25 Throwing Shade: Intel Xeon SP Slide Deck attacks AMD EPYC Server Lineup
38:35 Sponsor : Comic Bento
41:35 Sponsor : Fresh Books
43:49 Sponsor : IFIXIT
45:19 AMD Ryzen Threadripper and Ryzen 3 Product Updates
49:10 The Skylake-X Mess Explored: Thermal Paste And Runaway Power
52:57 $200 Wireless Oculus Rift in the works for 2018
58:45 KFC Phone. Yup.
1:02:17 OnePlus 5’s Display is Upside Down
1:04:05 Google Pixel 2 design leaked
1:05:03 Logitech Acquires Astro Gaming

 

WHAT VRM HEAT ISSUES? - ROG Strix X299-E Gaming Review

Just an AMD Fanboy?? - i7-7820X Review Comment Responses

 

Almost like saying this was not a flaw Same as other defend BGA filth!!

 

Given all the "pre-throttling" with the toothpaste TIM + down powered default settings in the BIOS, both gutting the top end, he says VRM heat is not a problem.

So 2 Wrongs make a Right?

And, then he says this is a gaming board, not an enthusiast board, wait for Asus Rampage for OC'ing.

All gaming boards are OC'ing motherboards, they all need to provide maximum performance - power, cooling, and head room for delidded top CPU with maximum core count.

While the Asus Rampage x299 is better, it's still not good enough, which is sad as that's the board I usually get. I was hoping it was going to be good enough, but IDK... more reviews.

The range of Intel i9 core count CPU's coming in staged releases - with the top end not even originally planned, has put all the current x299 motherboards out of the running.

It's going to be better to wait for the final wave of i9's to release, with new motherboards to support them fully, and see how those perform.

 

Maybe they need to apply the latest microcode update and see if it fixes the issues. Or maybe they rushed their production line that isn't power optimsed.

 

I trust Deb8uer more than this reviewer. Gaming board and HEDT? You should expect more than this.

See ↑↑↑↑

 

It wasn't exactly clear the differences between Engineering sample and Retail samples, it would have been nice if he didn't delid the engineering sample without running tests and measurements.

He blurted out a bunch of stuff about the differences and problems due to those differences between the microcode built into the Engineering sample vs the Retail sample.

Filling in the details of those differences and their effects and workarounds could be a good video to make, even with both delidded.

 

It was der8auer's thermal paste application video I learned how to spread the paste.

 

You can't really optimize for power - it's a known fact that Skylake/Kabe Lake, similarly and Polaris, has awful efficiency at higher clockspeeds.

 

Intel Core i7-7800X Overclocking, Temps & Power!


Again, more outrageous heat and thermals from huge power draw when OC'd...

He sums it up at the end saying that he got 5% better gaming performance from OC'ing, so he doesn't think it's worth the power and heat hassle from OC'ing, it's a waste of time.

So @Papusan, Intel OC'ing is a bust, not enough Ice in the Hinterlands to tame the beast, and even if you can, it's not giving much of a benefit.

Ryzen!! Ryzen!! Ryzen!!

 

See previous post #65

 

I can't help but think how ironic it is that Intel has transformed into this generation's Space Heater OEM.

 

Maybe NASA will buy them in bulk or they make called Prescott Reloaded.

 

I know enthusiasts are not too happy but this is how 100% of manufactured items are engineered. That is you design around the weakest link. If in the designed data the TDP limits power draw to an OC of say 4.3 or 4.3 GHz and its power draw limitations you design the rest of the system to run within those constraints. No where does Intel state the systems are designed to OC to 5.0 GHz each etc..

I know we all want over design. We want way more than designed for. We essentially want it all! This though is a fact of life, so long as it works within its design limits it is a good design, but I understand the want of better than just good enough but do not say it is bad because it is just good enough just say it is not the best.

 

The 10 core i9 is hitting the power and thermal limits without any more effort than a review overclocker, using technique's we all use to gain best performance - I know I would have done the same and more if available to expand performance capabilities.

The 12-28 core CPU's are going to have a good chance of hitting these limits under stock settings.

That's the main concern, not the "unusual" high OC on the 10 core CPU.

Although that does concern me too

 

Agreed, I had mentioned the concern of higher core counts earlier as well. My thought here though is how high will Intel by design go? if they hold true to the Xeon cores the 18 core may see a turbo of only 3.5-3.6 GHz. This may fall within power limits but means a 4.0 GHz TR will give the Intel chips a bit more of a fight than originally thought.

 

Asus X299 TUF Review Sabertooth
@15:00 VRM temps...


ASUS TUF X299 Mark 1 Review
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/asus_tuf_x299_mark_1_review/1

 

It's a shame they put that tacky shroud on there if for no reason other than the adverse aesthetics. I have to admit that I really don't like how it looks and would not want that on my system. Seems like extra crap to unnecessarily complicate the simplistic beauty of having a desktop.

 

He seems to think the shroud in this case is ducting air and providing better cooling to the VRM's than other shrouds, but I think removing all that plastic would be a good idea, and apply some real active cooling.

This board, and the X299 Prime had a number of thermal, current, and power off failures while OC'ing, not good...shown in the video after 15:00.

Starting at 23:34 - not a gaming platform, not much improvement from OC...

 

It'd be one brave hopeful soul who'd buy a current x299 mobo with the aim of dropping one of the >12cores in later on.

 

Such a disappointment.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Kaby-Lake-X-Intel-Core-i7-7740X-in-Review.235632.0.html

 

Flame On Intel i9 x299!!

Spoiler: ...meanwhile, over at AMD...

 

Actually Ryzen 1700 stock cooler temps, no OC ( reddit source) edit: he undervolted, oh well

 

12-core Intel Core i9 7920X will get a 400 MHz slower base-clock
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/1...20x-will-get-a-400-mhz-slower-base-clock.html

Intel Core i9-7920X 12-Core Monster Enthusiast Processor Rocks 2.9GHz Base Clock
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-7920x-hedt-processor-29ghz

Intel’s 12-core i9 7920X will run slower than their ten-core 7900X
https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/intel-core-i9-7920x-vs-i9-7900x

"Intel were originally claiming 15% better performance (albeit on SysMark…) for Coffee Lake compared with the previous Kaby Lake generation of chips, but at Computex this year they annouced the performance increase will be double that.

"Earlier this year you probably heard we committed to get a 15% performance improvement as we went from 7th generation to 8th generation core," said Intel's Gregory Bryant. "But you know our engineers, they weren't satisfied with that, they didn't want to stop there. They knew that they could do better and they dug in.

" Now I'm happy to report the 8th generation is going to deliver more than double that. That's right, more than 30% performance improvement generation over generation."

That would be an impressive generational performance uplift, especially considering the last few generations of Intel chips have struggled to even offer a modest 10% performance boost. The fine print at the bottom - which I even struggled to read on the big screen - claims the >30% comparison actually refers to the low-power, ~15W Core i7 chips of the two generations, not the desktop processors."

 

@hmscott I called it!

I don't remember where exactly but I called BS on a 15% performance improvement for desktops day 1.

 

Few years back, AMD piledriver and BullDozer CPUs were used as a heater, now Intel made a comeback that can heat up the entire country during winter or even entire earth if everyone bought them!

 

WIntel is coming.

 

Chillingly true

 

It must be TenTel or 10Tel.

 

@Papusan: Will you buy Ice Lake?

 

If it's better than the current/upcoming Hell's Lake, sure.

 

See ↓↓↓↓↓

 

I don't see the disappointing part here? Could it be more? Yeah. (we always want more).

But for a 4C/8T platform that someone is considering 'new' (not upgrade from anything remotely current) it is better than what was available just a few weeks/months ago.

Of course, for any workload/workflow where many cores can actually be efficiently used; the Ryzen options are there.

But, today, having an 16L V12 in your garage to drive in downtown New York is little more than bragging rights with most consumer workflows.

With a ~56% advantage over Ryzen 7 1800X (and a ~104% advantage over Ryzen 5 1400) in WinRAR type scenarios (i.e. single core 'snappiness')the every day advantage of the 7740x will be felt far past the time >4C/8T will be needed for most consumer software.

If I had to buy a 4C/8T platform today; the 7740X would be most tempting.

See:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...399-xeon-vs-epyc.805695/page-86#post-10566979


The idea is not simply to buy as much potential 'power' as you can for a certain budget. The idea is to actually be able to use, today, and over the course of the expected ownership (in your workflows/workloads) the power you do get for the longest period of time.

Are there workflows that need >4C/8T? Sure. Are there mere 'consumers' that rely on those workflows? Yeah.

But those aren't the ones I'm talking to. Hopefully; they already know their hardware requirements.

I'm talking for the rest (most...) of the world's 'consumer' population that will spend very close to equivalent $$$$ over the lifecycle of any platform they choose today and depending on if/how their workflow/workloads change; could be getting far less productivity out of their systems than they would otherwise have expected (from all the hullabaloo, retweets and current marketing that is trying to make >8C today a 'must' buy for 'everyone').

I live in the real world of 'now' and the immediate future. With the introduction of cheap/inexpensive MC platforms; nothing has changed. And it won't for the vast majority of users either; at least until these current platforms are ready to be replaced.

MC platforms of >8C/16T will be a great buy (and truly and actually needed) in a few years (somewhere north of 2020, I'd guess) for the masses.

Today? Great peak into the future of what's to come (computing wise; both hardware and software) and a boon for those whose workflows and workloads can already leverage the MC grunt these new options offer them today.

 

The synthetic benchmarks do not matter.

Also you greatly emphasizing the only time where the Intel 7740X has any form of advantage, and that is mostly necessary in gaming, so essentially you are buying a new mobo for a 100mhz bump in base clocks. Wow.

Furthermore, paying almost $190-250 more for the combined price of the CPU and the new mobo FOR a quad-core that is priced higher than the Ryzen octa-core is throwing money out the window, and bottlenecking yourself once programs utilize more cores better.


With that said, Intel does win per-core speed, hands down, until the cores start to scale upwards.

 

Actually; more 'snappiness' is the first thing I look for in a new platform - WinRAR just happens to be a real world workflow/workload of mine that means a lot too...

The rest of your reply; I agree 100% with.

Where we seem to not agree is your betting that current 8C/16T offerings will become worthwhile for the masses before they're effectively obsolete, and, the cost ($$$ and productivity) of a new platform that is giving up so much in performance for the programs most of us actually have and use today.

Fair is fair; if we are to believe Intel just gave us 5-10% performance increases with the past half dozen generations; then for those workloads; buying an AMD system when you don't have a workload to fully utilize those cores is like buying a circa 2010 Intel system today.

And that's my point.

Highest torque/hp and skyhigh redlines don't mean anything unless they translate directly to higher top speed and/or faster qm's...

In the end; you have to purchase what actually wins 'today' - not in some theoretical time frame in the future.

When (not if) that future comes; we'll be having another conversation then.