Laptop with GTX 560m

I see Nvidia is suppose to reveal and launch their 5x0 series at CES, meaning we will probably see the GTX 560m. Anyone who have some sort of idea how long it will take to see a laptop with it, and what will be the first manufacturers to release it with a laptop?

Side question: What power consumtion does it have? I can`t find any source who knows, but several sites claim it is lower than GTX 460m. Which is pretty sweet

 

Considering its just a rebadged GTX4x0 series of some kind, I doubt it will consume less power and be quicker.

 

It's not just rebadged, it's respun. The GeForce 5** series is based on the GF11* chips which are made with the same 40nm process and more or less the same architecture as the GF10* chips that the GeForce 4** series is based on, but TSMC has refined the process so that GF11* is a lot more efficient. For example, the GTX580 consumes a lot less power at idle and about the same at load as the GTX480 despite the 580 having higher clocks and more shaders enabled. If the mobile cards have the same improved process as the desktop ones (and I don't see why not as both are made by TSMC), they should be faster, cooler and less power hungry.

 

It's exactly like GeForce 9 and 8, mostly die shrinks, which allowed higher core clocks. Only slightly higher performance gain, but less power draw.

 

They won't all see the same improvements as GF110 did because GF104, 106, and 108 weren't in as bad a shape as GF100 was. There will be some improvement (especially yields and desktop clocks) but not as much.

For mobile cards I expect only the GTX 580M to be much more efficient than it's predecessor as it will hopefully be based off GF114.

 

The only chip to be respun is the one used in the desktop GTX580.

It basically took the design of the GTX460 (with many of the compute centric functions removed/balanced sections based on gaming) and scaled it up to GTX480 power/cost scale.

The GTX460M is already using all of this.

 

Why? It's the only one released so far (in the form of GTX580 and GTX570), but I suspect they'll be releasing respun versions of the other ones at CES. On the other hand, Phinagle may be right: the others weren't as bad so the improvement won't be as good.

 

Respun but much better than the original GF100 chips. And more stream processors, redesigned cooling system (heat pipes to vapor chamber), overall much cooler, AND much better for the money than the original cards. In fact 570 lines up with the older 480 for much less heat and ~350, 150 cheaper than the original 480.

 

GF104 is being respun to GF114 to get better yields of full 384 core GPU for the desktop GTX 560. Another rumor is that GF108 has been redone as GF119 to fix production problems.

SemiAccurate :: Nvidia to launch GF119 at CES


The benefits to mobile GPU should be minimal though.... as already seen with the GT 540M.


If GTX 580M is a significant enough increase then one course Nvidia could take is to rebadge the GTX 470M as a GTX 560M similar to how desktop GTX 480 became the GTX 570.

 

Regarding the 560m's release date, it may be a few months away.

Asus, and MSI are set to unveil some new notebooks with Sandy Bridge, however, the gpu is the 460m.

If the 560m was set release at CES, or anytime soon, then ASUS and MSI would have the 560m opposed to the 460m.

 

I don't think Nvidia can afford that. We've already seen people on these forums who have Sandy Bridge laptops with a Mobility Radeon 6570 in their hands (it was on sale in a Micro Center store) and that card is surprisingly powerful for something with "5" as the second digit. Nvidia needs the refresh to remain competitive.

 

Notebooks with 560m already on sale ...

But 560m is only a mid range card.

 

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 Specifications Revealed by VR-Zone.com

The GTX 560 is only retailing around January 25th.

It normally takes a couple of months, or weeks at the least, before the mobile version is released.

 

Which ones? Proof?

Links?

 

I would look out for sandy bridge/GTX470M.

 

I'm pretty sure GF560M Going to be GF470M Re branded card.

 

I agree 100% with this.

 

Midrange? What? GTX 470 M is on the top of the GPU chart at notebookcheck.
And i would like to see a link of the notebook with GTX 560m please. I cannot find it anywhere.

 

I think you're thinking of the GT 540M.

 

There are a couple of possible reasons why Nvidia would delay rolling out, at least, the top model parts....the most obvious being to clear stock of existing GF10x based GPU.

 

GPU Wars: Nvidia vs. ATI: Nvidia mobile 500 generation is DX11, CES
CES 2011 to Witness the Arrival of NVIDIA's GTX 560M - Softpedia

"What's more, the discrete 560M should even be able to match the GTX 480M, at least in some areas, while also featuring a significantly lower power consumption."

 

Interesting...hopefully not 480M prices..

 

The first link is so full of crap. The GTX 460M features 192 cores, not 384. If the GTX 560M is a by-product of the GF114 it'll probably have a few more than the 255 cores of the GTX 470M.

 

Always follow the breadcrumbs to the original source article. As Botsu mentioned Softpedia's assumptions are based on assumptions made by Expreview based on assumptions made by Fuadzilla where he believes the GTX460M is based off the same GPU that the desktop GTX 460 is....and that's completely wrong.

A desktop GTX 560 based on an respun GF104, and the start of a new 500M mobile series at CES have both been supported by evidence from various separate sources, so those are reasonable assumptions. It's also probably safe to assume that GF114 will be used to create the top end mobile parts just as the GF104 was...but assumptions on which models will show at CES, how much performance they'll have, how much power they'll draw, and when we'll see notebooks with them are all just Fuad's guesses.

 

Im confused. GF114 which GTX 560 will be based on have 384 cores. GF 106 which 460M is, have 256 shaders. But 460M only have 192 cores like you say. GTX 480M is GF 100 have 352 cores. And they say GTX 560 will be better than 480 in some areas, so why cant it have 384 cores?

 

A full GF106 has 192 shaders not 256....or even 240 which actually can be made outta blocks of 48 cores.


If you think GTX 560M will have 384 cores what GPU do you expect GTX 580M to be made out of?

 

I have no idea. That is why im asking. According to semiaccurate the GF106 have 256 cores. But that is probably the desktop version right? That is why it is 192 in the mobile version (GTX 460M)?

But if the 560M have 384 cores, cannot the 580M have the same amount of cores but higher clocked? Or more cores?

 

With 384 cores a GTX 560M would have a crazy TDP. The GTX 470M with 255 more or less already hits the limit of what could be considered a reasonable TDP for a mobile chip, and its clocked fairly low. A GPU with more cores running at extremely low frequencies wouldn't be an efficient trade-off I guess.

iirc the GF110 / GF114 consume less in idle but more under full load because of the extra cores / higher frequencies, so while it may be suitable for desktop rigs it's not the same story for mobile parts.

 

GTX 470M have 288 cores. GTX 480M have 352 cores according to notebookcheck. 480M is clocked lower than 470M though. Don`t know what TDP the 480M have compared to 470M

 

And look what he posted a few days ago.

Geforce 500 mobile marginally faster than 400M

And he doesn't even mention the previous article, not to mention the fact that he doesn't know that 400M cards have DX11.

Who hired this guy?

EDIT: Oh, he's the boss. Even more pathetic.

 

My bad, I don't know why I had 255 stuck in my head. Anyway I doubt the rumored 560m would be radically different. According to notebookcheck the 470M has a 75W tdp while the 480M has a 100W tdp.

 

No version of GF106 has 256 cores. That was an ancient rumor back before Fermi was launched. GF104, 106, and 108 have cores in blocks of 48 and you can't make a 256 core part out of blocks of 48 cores.


In theory you probably could make a GTX 560M out of a 384 core part but in order to get it's power down to the 75W TDP envelope that notebooks you typically find a GTX 560M level card in it would have to be downclocked to the point where it wouldn't perform any better than a 192 core or 288 core GPU with higher clocks.

 

Ok you guys are probably right about the cores. Doesnt matter anyway. All that matters is that the GPU is better and more efficient than 460M.


But like you said 75 W limit for laptops, GTX 480 TDP of 100W, and the softpedia article saying:
"What's more, the discrete 560M should even be able to match the GTX 480M, at least in some areas, while also featuring a significantly lower power consumption."

Do you think they have managed to push it down from 100 and to lets say around 75W? I know GTX 460M have around that, so must be golden if they managed that

I will be paying attention to CES for shure. It is so close yay.
Imagine a Sandy Bridge laptop with GTX 560M and Optimus.

 

Yes, CES is going to be huge this year. All worthwhile mobile processing units are refreshed: Sandy Bridge, Bobcat, Nvidia 500M and AMD Mobility 6000 all get their official introduction.

 

Optimus is a great selling point....to go for an AMD GPU.


GTX 460M and 470M are already 75W, and the 470M already matches the GTX 480M in some areas. GTX 580M is again looking like it will be a 100W card...especially if it's a 384 core part with meaningful clocks.

We're hopefully going back to the days when the top model cards were in the largest notebooks with the best cooling, and anything under 17" had a GPU with a lower model number.

 

this is the biggest truth I have read on NBR in months !!!
Optimus is a massive fail in many eyes for many reasons.

 

Good in theory, major fail in actual implementation. I guess better than Nvidia's older hybrid graphics where a switch required a reboot..

 

Well i don`t care about 580M. Anyway, i am waiting to see what Asus republic of gamers release. They have great cooling with their G-laptops.

But do tell why Optimus and AMD fit so nicely together

 

totally agree... in fact it was epic epic fail... I actually wonder what the GTX560M will be.. 460M was a failure... could barely beat a 5870M.. in fact can't wait for 11.0 catalsyt.. hoepfully now 5870M trashes 460M in DX11 with ATI's new DX11 coding.

Panther214

 

Optimus is HORRIBLE. it reduces the speed of any discreet GPU as final display is handled by the IGP ... and badly. the drivers are still bad after a year. other OS support is non existant. its ineficient as the IGP is always in full usage and in most laptops the Discreet card never fuly shuts down.

I sold EVERY Optimus enabled Laptop I tried this year because it was such a horrid implementation of GPU switching and driver combination. ( all 8 laptops )

that is why Linux users and many other power users found Nvidias Optimus to be the best marketing tool ever for ATI/AMD... well that and the over priced power hungry toasters they ( Nvidia ) keeps cranking out

 

Why? Optimus is the first GPU switching technology that more or less works as an ideal one should. AMD has nothing like it so far. Of course, it has thus far been matched mostly with pathetic GPUs that are not substantially better than Intel's current integrated graphics, but Sandy Bridge should put an end to that. Optimus matched with a 560M should be quite good.

 

your kidding right? Ati has had hybrid graphics for awhle now and had a manual switching system for 1.5 years

and unlke Optimus BOTH work well under Linux and other operating systems

take a peek at switcheroo for linux that we hope to have working for Optimus sometime soon as well

 

And don't forget Dynamic Switchable Graphics, the true competitor to Optimus, is being introduced with the 6000M series this month. (Though, I'm not thrilled for that unless it allows manual switching; otherwise, it's just as bad as Optimus.)

 

Oh well. They are improving Optimus im shure. It is just a start.
Although it sounds very bad at this stage canuk

 

No, I am not kidding. Manual switching is quite different from Optimus (the entire point of which is that it's transparent to the user). Hybrid graphics is also somewhat different, but more importantly, there's no way to get it in a laptop together with a half-way decent CPU.

The lack of Linux support is unfortunate, but as far as I can tell, it simply defaults to the integrated graphics, right? That seems like a pretty good solution to me -- I've been using Linux for more than 5 years now and I've never encountered a scenario where even an old IGP is not sufficient (it's virtually impossible to play modern games on Linux). The Sandy Bridge GPU is as good as entry level discreet cards so I don't really see a problem here.

 

Optimus is only an ideal implementation of switchable graphics in so much as it eliminates the extra MUX connection, and makes it cheaper for notebook manufacturers to use it. However, how the automated switching is handled is sloppy and problematic....and that's not talking about the driver issues, conflicts, and other headaches users have faced.

In order to use the IGP's display controller the Nvidia card has to copy the information to be displayed from the cards memory to the notebook's shared system memory...that copying is handled by CUDA cores that are diverted away from processing graphics. Once in the notebook's shared system memory they're then in the hands of the same memory controller issues that slows down all IGPs. This method is less than ideal as both of those steps are potential bottlenecks that can degrade performance....especially as the discrete GPU gets faster.

The ideal solution would allow the discrete GPU direct access to the IGP's display controller and forget about the copy engine. Unfortunately this is not something we're ever likely to see with Intel CPU and Nvidia or AMD discrete GPU. It is however something we might see with AMD APU and AMD discrete GPU, as it would end up working much like Crossfire does.

 

Hmm... how large are these effects? From what I understand, they should not be that big since the IGP is being fed ready-made images which we know it can handle. Copying likewise should consume only a miniscule fraction of the discreet card's power. I guess we'll find out in a couple of days from seeing it in action.

 

"One of the best laptops in the G-series, the GT680, has a 15.6-inch screen, DirectX 11-ready Nvidia GeForce GTX 500 Series and 400 Series graphics cards, as well as Dynaudio speakers. The device will ship in January for a base price of $1,499. A larger version of the same laptop, the GT780, with a 17.3-inch screen, will ship in the second quarter of this year"
MSI among first to show Sandy Bridge laptops - Computerworld

Sweet. I bet they are waiting on Nvidia to release the news about GTX 560 before publishing the real hardware details about MSIs next Sandy Bridge laptops. Will for shure think about buying this one if Asus doesnt get their in to gear and ditch the oooold GTX 460.

 

That will make at least 9 months after the chassis first appeared at Computex 2010. MSI can't be competitive like that.

 

Phinagle isn't that sometime after the end of March?