New Generation Intel CPU's 'Tiger Lake' Processors

Not benchmarks, time saved. There is a difference. A benchmark 'score' can be 10,000 for one product and 1,00 for another, yet the 'time savings' are in the milliseconds. Who cares for 'scores' when this is possible? It can also be 1,000 vs. 840 and mean that the product that scored 840 does it in half the time. 'Scores' are meaningless unless a unit of value (time) is directly attributable and you're able to at least guestimate what percentage of your workflows/workloads will benefit too.

I don't tout the software 'victories', did you even read the article? Did you read all of my responses above? In context? Where did I say Adobe software is the 'norm'?

The tests which show improvements are the same type of workloads most consumers do. Highest GHz speeds for single-core loads. Even for more than a single core/thread, 4C/8T is still enough for 99.9% of consumers with their sequential and low/medium multitasking workloads. RAM makes more difference to multitasking than more (idle) cores ever will, for them.

Don't question the benchmarks to me, question the author(s) of the article. But they were clear on what was guessed at though.

My points are that the shocking results they got, pretty well mirror what I see in my experience too.

Some additional points to make my stance clearer.

1) On a mobile platform, I want as much performance as possible when I'm plugged in.

2) But as much battery life as possible when I'm not. Dedicated graphics on a mobile platform that is not someone's 'primary' or 'only' computer is an oxymoron to me.

Yeah, some workloads do benefit from a GPU. Not enough for me to want one though on my mobile platforms. See point 2.

Furthermore, any issues in the testing of the linked article by @Papusan are real-world issues regular users would face. That is why I like articles like that.

And not ones that, for example, lock the CPU clock to an arbitrary value to determine inane properties like IPC that means nothing to me when I buy and use a system at its defaults and therefore gain more than the sum of the parts in benefits. The synergy of a new platform is what makes it stand out above what was previously available, if that synergy exists, of course. Neutering a platform, to show how little (or how much) it has progressed is just one way that online rags way of showing their BIAS, or, at the very least, try to create traffic for themselves. I see through that old tactic.

As I've said. I don't buy into the magic of 'better' IPC, improved and smaller XXnm nodes, moar cores, or other, single metric/one dimensional, easy to serve, swallow and digest marketing bs from any company. I buy and keep what improves on what I previously had, and I'll return it if it doesn't.

Reading the online rags when I'm trying to decide on a platform upgrade? Strictly, fictional entertainment for the kiddos with no experience under their belts.

Yeah, I called it. Hope dies last.

Yeah and I don't want to search my old posts either. So stop asking me to do what you won't. I'm not and have never touted 'BMs', re-read what I've written. The reasons are there for all who want to see. The evidence is there too. If you're open to it.

My point is this: my workflows which you're so gung-ho to learn are not what's important. I've indicated a million times similar loads, but not good enough, huh? What's important is each person's workflows/workloads and not the one-dimensional 'scores' being fed to them about what they should buy to be 'cool'.

It's not Intel I'm so set on. It's about making a discerning choice unhampered by peer pressure or marketing.

 

Anecdotal evidence = meaningless

 

For choosing a CPU, yes. For choosing platform as a whole, the sum of personal experiences of different users is often much more valuable than any benchmarks.

 

That's a lot of words to not actually explain anything. Here are my thoughts:

1. NVIDIA optimus allows users to get the best of both worlds when it comes to power and battery life. My XPS gets >14 hours of battery life without doing anything. Plus I can use the dGPU for editing/gaming/whatever.

2. I linked benchmarks that are the same ones as the ones that @tilleroftheearth touts as being real world and yet somehow it's rubbish.

3. If we extrapolate the information from the two articles: The one @tilleroftheearth loves shows that the i7-10750H beating the i7-1185G7 on numerous tests despite it being "old tech." Then the benchmarks showing magical IPC gains on 5000 series shows AMD being faster than the Intel counterparts (at less power usage too). My guess is AMD will be ahead in the mobile market, at least certainly in multi-core and close in single (thanks to the magic of IPC gains).

4. Saying comparing "old tech" to new tech is unfair in my benchmarks but yet saying there will be no IPC gains with new tech from AMD makes me laugh...

5. Benchmarks that assign an arbitrary score on how FAST a cpu does something is a way to make a baseline. Funny how one article with scores is good but another is meaningless...

6. Writing paragraphs instead of a simple sentence on workflow means you have no real proof. Being cryptic and telling someone to read something that isn't there or search hundreds of old posts supports that.

7. It's fine to be a fan of something, but don't kid yourself or others on why.

8. If single core numbers are the only thing that matters for most users, why do we have more than one core two threads at all?

 

Tiger Lake is looking like a very good product if the price is right. Low power consumption, high ST performance and good igpu for mass market, and 8-core Tiger should be at least competitive with if not better than next gen Ryzen mobile.

The good laptops take forever to come to Singapore and come with stupid price premiums early on, but at least we'll have plenty of time to research which platforms suit us best.

 

Yeah I'm sad that the H series won't be out until Q2. It will likely be what my next XPS is, I just hope NVIDIA releases something with a reasonable power consumption for the mid-tier user by that time. A 6-core tiger lake with a 3050 or so would probably be the sweet spot for me.

 

1. I like to do things when my notebooks are on. I don't get a kick out of them being on and doing nothing.

2. There are benchmarks and there are benchmarks. They are not equivalent. Try to see why they're not the same.

3. My points are that Intel has never been left behind in the mobile sector, thank you for proving my point. And for showing how easily you get confused too.

4. Again, read what I'm saying. A single metric may or may not show a manufacturer in a positive light. Comparing a complete platform though, as the article @Papusan linked, shows things as they are in totality and how they will perform for the people that bought them.

5. Time is not arbitrary. That is the only thing that counts. Don't equate things simply because they're being described with the same name. Arbitrary 'scores', as I described in my post above, and with which you claim with a disturbing level misunderstanding as "That's a lot of words to not actually explain anything.", are different from 'twice as fast', especially when the baseline is in minutes and for someone's workflows, hours.

6. Reading and pretending to not comprehend the written message is a good 'tool' to use when you don't have a valid point to make yourself. I am not being cryptic. We've had this conversation many times. I'm done repeating it, but that doesn't make it a 'proof' of no proof.

7. I've stated what I've been a fan of since I joined this forum over a decade ago. Tools that are performant, are dependable, reliable, and compatible. Anything else is a swing and a miss. I don't do 'fan' things. I don't buy 'marketing'. I don't do 'fads'. I'd rather spend a months' worth of my time donating and helping out where I can than buy (and keep) a platform that performs less than what is sitting on the workstation beside it.

8. Never said that. You really should stop saying things that support your cause but make you look a little less intelligent each time you repeat them.


Reading for comprehension is a requirement that you're not willing to make.

Thanks for trying to make it look, once more, like you're interested in a real conversation, but nothing has changed all these years.

 

I'm sure whatever GPU Dell decides to put in the next-gen XPS 15 will be an upgrade over the 1650 Ti. I hope for performance at least comparable to the RTX 2060 Max-Q that's currently exclusive to the XPS 17.

 

I was interested in a conversation but you refuse to actually provide any info besides dancing around the subject. It's the same stuff with you every time. You make statements but don't provide anything. The benchmarks I provided are the same as what @Papusan posted, but comparing high end CPUs but somehow it's not equivalent. I've never said that Intel isn't a great mobile option, but they are behind in many areas. You don't understand what normalizing scores looks like in relation to speed, that's fine. And my reading comprehension is fine, you just don't actually post anything that backs up your statements, you just drone on and say how amazing something is without providing any info.

I'll stop pestering this thread with our back and forth, but I'll be sure to chime in when something comes up that doesn't actually add up...

 

One core and two threads isn’t enough today. You need also a second core for the telemetry/maintenance/bloated background tasks from the new and shiny OS from Redmond I have enjoyed 2 cores chips from Ivy Bridge lineup the last days. A very disgusting experience, LOOL

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ers-welcome-too.810490/page-983#post-11070058

 

I'm sure you will chime in. You always do. Just making the effort to understand and accept what I'm saying is also valid seems to be impossible for you.

This is NBR, correct? Mobile is what we talk about here.

 

Yes, we all know that desktop CPUs and mobile CPUs are totally different and the improvements made to one or the other don't apply, right?

Sarcasm aside, it looks like Intel can't figure out their 7nm stuff so they are asking TSMC for help now. Sad days.

 

Yeah, CPU's are different as are the platforms. The focus and goals of each are starkly obvious.

And 'asking for help', even if taken at face value , is now a bad thing? Yeah, sad days indeed. But not for Intel.

Meanwhile, even 'moar cores AMD' has toned down their meaningless rampage of their non-importance in 99.9% of today's computing.

AMD CEO Lisa Su Talks: Chip Shortages, Tariffs, GPUs, and More Cores | Tom's Hardware

 

So they can try to stick it to AMD by wanting to constrain their supply even more than it already is? Is there no depths to which Intel will sink?

(That was only half sarcasm, btw.)

 

Nice insight! There are half-truths everywhere. Too many perspectives to keep track of or verify to 100% each time.

That is why discussions are great. Opens the mind to always new possibilities if one wants.

Except, of course, when it comes to determining the worth of a product by differences in productivity, as measured with time. No tricks of the old trade have worked to keep me from staying focused on that.

 

Reminds me of the time Intel couldn't even remember the name of their own tiger lake mobile CPUs and said AMD 5x more times (shaking in their boots I'm sure).

Not sure if you remember but the Core-2-duo was based on the Pentium M and Intel dumped their NetBurst architecture for it. CPUs between desktops and laptops are the same, the only thing that changes is the power envelopes.

 

The Peniutm M if I recall was essentially just a tweaked Pentium III Tualatin core, I don't think it had a parallel desktop equivalent after P3s were phased out. Tualatin PIIIs (which were good products) and Athlons comically enough beat higher clocked initial Intel Willamette P4s in many areas, outside memory perfomance. Northwood was probably the golden era for P4. Netburst was just an attempt to trade efficiency and throw "Moar Mhz" with a longer data pipeline, it would look good from a marketing perspective as well in regards to the average consumer not knowing any better. By the time of Prescott/Pentium D the heat/power consumption pretty much put a dent in the Netburst line at around 3.6Ghz. The much better Core series pretty much traces its lineage to the P3 as @custom90gt alluded.

 

Yeah, I remember all that except the 'shaking in their boots' part.

A mobile platform is not a desktop platform though. Even if the CPU's have the same lineage.

A desktop-class CPU in a portable chassis does not make it mobile.

 

Typically a desktop CPU is more powerful than its mobile counterpart.

Desktop Celeron/Pentium = Laptop i3
Desktop i3 = Laptop i5
Desktop i5 = Laptop i7
Desktop i7 = Laptop i9
Desktop i9 > All the above

If you look at the laptop and desktop Core CPUs all the way up to Coffee Lake, you'll see the desktop CPUs always outperform their mobile counterparts. With Coffee Lake Refresh and onward, this is even more obvious since the mobile counterpart actually has less cores (ex: laptop i7 for 9th gen has 6 cores while desktop i7 has 8).

This is one of the reasons I love true DTRs. I don't have to deal with cut-down non-replaceable BGA CPUs.

 

The i7 1185G7 is faster than quite a few desktop CPUs even current gen ones as well.

i5 9400 6x2.9ghz 3.9ghz all core turbo (using about 70w)



i7 1185G7




I posted this example because I own each one.

 

My point is that the architecture is the same, not the naming or thermal envelope. It's a function of how efficient a CPU is when you try to meet the TDP requirement. It's not like desktop GPUs vs Laptop GPUs where one is cut down in some way (outside of just TDP of course). A 4800h is essentially a lower powered 3700. A 10750H is essentially a lower powered 10600... The point is that advancements made in architecture will apply to both lines.

 

Regardless of low performance, I dare say Intel is a bad company, and their management deserves to rot for what they do to the industry. This time, I am not talking about selling pretty much the same CPUs with anemic iGPUs over the years, or numerous security vulnerabilities.

One of Intel's favourite exercises is buying a successful business, and putting it to ruin. As a consequence, users end up devoid of software and firmware updates, because vendors loose all interest when Intel scraps yet another product line. To give a few examples, Intel Lantiq-based routers and Intel XMM 7160 & 7162 modems didn't receive firmware updates in ages. XMM 7162's firmware is barely functional, yet Intel just abandoned the product. Oh, and documentation for those was never available! Same goes for Intel WiGiG 802.11ad devices - 17265, 18260 & 18265 WLAN+WiGiG adapters, and infrastructure around them - no documentation whatsoever, and at some point Intel just dumped the whole WiGiG thing. Just like they did with Quark. This company does not deserve our money!

 

Intel's CEO resigns and the company is incapable of delivering products on its own nodes so now it's attempting to turn to its direct competitor, which is already under severe supply constraints. And here's why that's a bad thing...for AMD.

When you're done doing whatever it is you do in real life, you should apply for a job at Buzzfeed.

 

I wouldn't agree with this because a mobile CPU is designed FROM the desktop CPU... and the mobile part ends up with lower TDP than the desktop counterpart due to better binning or some extra modifications to make it fit into that lower TDP (which are necessary due to different chassis and thermal thresholds in laptops).

Down to the core and overall design however, mobile and desktop are pretty much the same - the main differences are in TDP and whether or not a CPU has an iGP or not... and as far as I recall, the Zen desktop APU's are identical to the mobile series, but without the same TDP limits.

My Ryzen 2700 in PH517-61 objects to that statement. Its pretty portable, not to mention FAR cooler and quieter than most other laptop cpu's on the market (and various desktops).
This is a full fledged desktop CPU inside a laptop (which only goes to show what OEM's can do even with outdated cooling when it DESIGNED properly for the hw inside).

The only thing it lacks is an iGP (which would radically improve upon battery life when away from the mains - but desktop replacement laptops aren't usually MEANT to operate on battery in the first place for long periods of time - for that matter, most gaming laptops with mobile APU's aren't designed to be gamed on or perform complex tasks on battery power either - battery power is meant for relatively light tasks - I treat the battery in this PH517-61 as in allowing me more than enough time to save my data and make backups in case of the mains power failure - the battery in this thing lasts about 1hr and 30-45 mins - which is comparable to other laptops that don't have an iGP, and its more than enough if I'm on the go and need to use it and I don't feel like using my mobile phone).

 

Portable, is not mobile.

A mobile phone is still useless.

The platform is what makes it mobile.

Thanks for making my points.

 

I'll have you knew, he can launch MS Word in 2 seconds on his Windows Mobile phone.

 

Core i7 11370H laptop review. Verdict? Pretty much sucks, especially in gaming which is where we're seeing this CPU pop up.

 

It shouldn't surprise anyone that a Quadcore CPU combined with a higher end GPU isn't enough anymore in many modern games. Intels real Tigerlake H lineup is coming in a few week with 6 and 8 core options.

 

Yep. Wait for real H series with 6 and 8 cores which is "coming soon". I hope we see some laptops pop up mid to end of May.

https://twitter.com/IntelGaming/status/1385624524104818688?s=20

 

alder lake is where its at! or golden cove hedt, or ocean cove hedt! optane dimm support with at least hexa channel.

 

Tiger Lake H45 launch is official, and there are some nice improvements here. The IPC gains should offset some of the lost clock speeds. Also glad to see the i5 lineup start at six cores instead of four, 24 MB of L3 cache on the i7 and i9, PCI-E 4.0, and embedded Thunderbolt controller. The only disappointment is the WiFi with the Killer co-branding. Hopefully Intel will continue to offer vanilla drivers without the binary cancer that is Killer Control Center.

 

Any thoughts on whether the i7-11800H would be a noticeable upgrade vs the i7-10875H? I’m referring specifically to the early 2021 Blade 15 vs the mid 2021 model. Thank you

 

No point upgrading within the same gpu generation. Unless you're upgrading to a laptop with a higher tdp/better gpu as well.

 

Thanks for the reply. The main reason I asked is that I can pick up a brand new early 2021 Blade 15 tomorrow. I’m debating if I should hold out for the 11800H model in June. I have no need for Thunderbolt btw

 

If you can wait till June, do it.

By then, the model you want now may be less expensive, or, one of the 11800H models may offer you more for equal $$$$.

Either way, up to ~20% performance loss for a months worth of impatience is too high a price to pay.

 

Very interesting news, I think Intel might take back the crown after all in terms of performance in games but if they still run hotter, have less battery life and cost more than AMD Ryzen laptops then AMD will still be ahead slightly but i am looking forward of seeing the reviews. Ryzen laptops not having thunderbolt 4 is going to start hurting them in the future especially in the high end sector

 

He want the Razer-book. Not so sure he get so much more value for equal more $$$$

The prices rise significantly
The Razer Blade Advanced has become more expensive compared to the last generation: Both the entry-level and the top model with RTX 3070 cost at least 100 euros more than the predecessor at the start, the equipment is otherwise comparable. For the best equipment variant with the Core i9, Razer even charges an extra 300 euros (€300 = $363.79 USD).
https://www.computerbase.de/2021-05...s-mit-tiger-lake-werden-schneller-und-teurer/

 

@Mr. Fox I'm curious, over the span of your stay in forum.notebookreview how have the prices of high end laptops changed? Excluding outliers like the Acer Predator X21

Has the xx80 range of laptops always been in the $3000 ballpark? or was there a time when it was lower?

 

One of these 8-core CPUs in a NUC form factor (dGPU-less) could be very interesting at the right price, although my guess is that these (like AMD's mobile offerings) are only going to be seen in the highest margin products for at least the short term.

 

Of course it depends on the configuration options, but prices for the high end laptops really have not changed a whole lot. The Dell XPS M1730 was my first high-end DTR with 8800M SLI and that was about $3800 back in 2007. $3000 is on the entry-level end of the high performance DTR price spectrum. Back in the days when they still made Intel Extreme mobile CPUs that usually added close to $1,000 to the price. So, with respect to the option of using the unlocked K desktop processors, things are actually significantly more affordable when it comes to configuring a system with the best CPU option available.

Where costs can get really crazy stupid now is when you start adding things like 2TB NVMe SSDs and 64GB (or more) of XMP SO-DIMMs and both of those configuration options tend to make the cost of purchasing even a chintzy little turdbook unaffordable.

 

Was basically drooling over them in Magazines which I couldn't afford it! 3000$ laptop was overkill for a teenager anyway!

 

Indeed. I was a grown man with a 5 teenagers of my own at that time. I also had the wrong date in my post (and corrected it). That was back in 2007 (not 2017, LOL).

 

At that time (2017) I have a AW BGA and still took a long time to realize that BIOS is borked and only thing you can do is repaste and repad to keep thermals under 85C to avoid slow CPU 800MHz or BD PROCHOT based throttling.

 

Nowaday they accept 100C. And the main reason nothing will change. Is this normal ?

i9/3080 m17r4 - 100c cpu temps while gaming…do we care?? Runs like a champ.

 

This is kind of like saying, " I have uncontrolled type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease; but, I don't care and plan to do nothing about it because it is not painful and I can still drive a car, watch TV and go to work every day." When a person's stupidity runs that deep they are in a different league of idiocy because their bliss is not attributable to ignorance.

 

The Gigabyte Aorus 15p has a 3080 (max 105W IIRC) for $2,300 MSRP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I guess it depends on how one defines "high end DTR" laptop. I would not call an Aorus laptop that personally. My TongFang turdbook is perfectly fine for playing games. It was only $1,500, but it's not even remotely close to a DTR. It's too small, too thin, too light and too crippled. It's a low-cost mobile computing device with gaming capabilities thanks to discrete graphics.

That said, the way I define "high end DTR" is nearly extinct. There is only one product (X170) that fits my definition, which requires a socketed desktop K CPU, MXM GPU, a minimum of 3 drive bays, fully unlocked BIOS, and minimum of 17-inch display. So, it is a take it or leave proposition. I don't own one and don't plan on buying one because I have no use for that niche at this point in my life. Even so, everything else falls into the disgusting disposable turdbook bucket for me.

The only other possibility of a qualifying product I am aware of is the Alienware Area51m and I'd not ever seriously consider that as a viable option due to its plethora of unacceptable flaws and limitations.

 

I'm willing to bet money that the guy who posted it is joking, there's no way one would think that 100c is fine. Hell, I get worried when my 4930mx goes over 90c.

 

WOW i am impressed on how good is your comparaison.

SO TRUE.

 

Maybe a former Apple-guy? They are used to 100C