New Generation Intel CPU's 'Tiger Lake' Processors

Some interesting remarks from the Reddit AMA intel did recently. Quoting them below

9-11980HK is fully unlocked
i9-11950 and i9-11900H are partially unlocked for up to 5 bins of overclocking
i7-11800H is partially unlocked for up to 4 bins of overclocking

All of the fully and partially unlocked SKUs can take advantage of Intel Speed Optimizer (boost the all core turbo to the single core turbo frequency) and memory OC

Reg undervolting:
"Undervolting requires the ability to overclock enabled in the bios, which is up to the OEM. So it could be available on all partially or fully unlocked SKUs depending on OEM design."

 

I hope this trends continue and one day I can tell my grand-kids that Dell never learns from past mistakes instead they keep repeating them.

 

Not the most knowledgeable person on turbo bins, but would the non-K SKU's be able to sustain these added bins at full load?

 

AMA with Intel - 11th Gen Intel® Core™ H-Series Mobile Processors (Tiger Lake H)


Intel 2 days ago

"PL1 has a range of 35-45W for all SKUs except the i9-11980HK which has a PL1 range of 45-65W. Most OEMs are using a 45W "nominal". There are two levels of PL2. Base PL2 is 107 watts, performance PL2 is 135 watts. Default Tau is 56 seconds. OEMs have the flexibility to configure these values as they see fit." -ML

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html
Most likely no. Crippled firmware and the cooling ain't designed around max allowed OC bins. + Turbo boost in its default form is for burst loads until 56 sec.


https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...0007359/processors/intel-core-processors.html

Edit. See also how the OEM castrate the Cpu power once you put stress on the Gpu simultaneous. Yeah, more cores was meant to be useful for streaming/other tasks while you gaming. How can you enjoy 5 bins of overclocking if the OEM heavly castrate the Cpu's power limit due not adquate cooling for both Cpu and Gpu?

The company said that the Core i9-11900H is configured to use up to 50 W of sustained power with the GPU active and 90 W on its own. The CPU can be paired with up to an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU that is configured to consume up to 140 W via Dynamic Boost.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/New-A...H-and-Ampere-RTX-30-Laptop-GPUs.538624.0.html

 

This goofball approach really is a great example of how idiotic the technology brain trust has become. The amount of power the CPU can use should be totally agnostic with respect to whether or not the GPU is being utilized and how much power the GPU is using. The only reason this stupid idea makes good sense is that it facilitates mass production of turdbooks with crappy engineering, defective thermal management systems and panty-waisted wuss power requirements.

 

The die can only dissipate so much..

One could imagine that the GPU can use up to 40W, and that going above 90W, you get into such high power/mm2 values that no thermal paste would last for more than a couple seconds...

I would say that slapping a 90W CPU into a laptop is the defective idea...

 

Laptops have been shipping 90w+ chips since 2019. As long as its an intel 8 core it uses 90w+ so this is nothing new.

Paste works but only on vapour chamber systems it seems. Otherwise Lm is the only way to keep temps reasonable.

 

The problem is not the idea. If it is built correctly, even 250W is fine.

The problem is half-assed engineering and laptop manufacturers not giving a rat's butt about the products they sell or the people that buy them. They just crank out the trash and let someone else worry about trying to deal with the fallout of their incompetence and lack of concern for quality. In the current scenario, 90W can be a serious problem. But, as we have already seen, so is 25W. The fact that most of them can keep a wimpy low-power chip from hitting 100°C, and then changing the rules to define overheating as 'normal' behavior, shows the magnitude of the incompetence and lack of integrity that has become common.

The way they build laptop garbage nowadays, the only way these chintzy turdbooks are going to avoid thermal malfunction is by being left turned off.

 

https://hothardware.com/reviews/intel-tiger-lake-h-core-i9-11980hk-performance-preview

TLDR version:

 

The 3DMark scores, I'm dying in laughter right now . I'm hoping its just because the laptop that was used for the testing was a thinner than a hair.

 

At the end of the day, they're all just a stack of crippled turdbooks no matter how you slice 'em. The degree to which they get crippled varies by OEM and model. It is difficult to ever get a clean apples-vs-applies hardware comparison due to the wildcards with laptops. Some are going to perform poorly regardless of specs simply because the numbskulls that designed it botched things up. It is as much a comparison of vendor behavior, engineering quality, (or lack thereof,) and firmware, as it is the underlying components that are used in each build.

The unnamed proof of concept platform used in the comparison may be better or worse than what eventually rolls off of assembly lines. Even in the case of desktop motherboard manufacturers, some are much better at optimizing things and enhancing performance through firmware than others are. Some adhere to Intel's suggestions for power and turbo time limits. Thankfully, some do not. There is sometimes a significant difference in performance between those that do and those that do not. For example, if you buy a Dell, chances are great that it is going to have crippled power limits and thermal throttling issues that a system using the same core components in another brand does not have.

 

Here is more tragic. Intel wasn't able to tame their own brand new chips. And the OEMs always cheapo cooling in thinner and slimy chassis will be a hot and throttling mess once again. This power hungry 10nm mess from Intel is one of the reasons Dell capped the GPU TGP and no unlocked 11th gen HK in the Alienware m15R6 refresh (yeah, Unified heatsink to balance the cooling).

Intel 11th Generation Core Tiger Lake-H Performance Review: Fast and Power Hungry
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16680/tiger-lake-h-performance-review


Anandtech had to castrate the chips and use the lower 45W TDP as PL1 to be able to test the new unlocked Tiger lake 11th gen BGA.

Looking at the temperature, we’re seeing maximum load figures in excess of 95°C, with some 96°C peaks in our coarse sampled data. What seems to be happening here is that the CPU is thermal tripping between the 65W and 35W states, unable to sustain the 65W state for any amount of prolonged time.

We’ve confirmed that this throttling and power and frequency fluctuations happen on several workloads, and the only conclusion we can come to is that the reference system simply doesn’t have an adequate enough thermal dissipation solution to effectively enable the 65W cTDP mode of the CPU.

While the reference laptop had a bare-bones BIOS, fortunately enough we were able to rely on XTU to change the system’s PL1 settings, and we chose to re-test at 45W given that this is the i9-11980HK’s supposed default TDP setting.

 

And I thought my 4930mx with a maxed out fan and 4 pipe heatsink was too hot...

I really hope that the non i9 offerings are alright, I plan on getting my father one of MSI's new Crosshair/Pulse laptops by the end of the year (if they aren't bad), but the cooling solutions on them are quite lacking, 2 pipes on the CPU (11800h,) and 2 half-assed pipes on the 3050/3050ti models.

 

Will depends on.... If the OEM cut costs on the cooling for the non HK. Remember some of the the non HK chips will be partial unlocked. Up to 6 bin for the more expensive 11th gen BGA chips.

 

Hmm, yeah, that looks pretty pathetic. I think your description is spot on. Maybe it will be cute enough to keep the kiddos happy and they won't notice that it's a pile of crap.

 

It seems OEM's like putting all of their money in budget systems towards "performance" and looks/dimensions. I wish someone would make a budget machine that doesn't look "gamery," and would sacrifice a bit of performance for the sake of decent build quality and decent cooling. My father does a bit of CAD stuff for work, but likes to play light games on the side, and he also just generally likes MSI as most of his past laptops have been from them and he hasn't complained much.

I am hoping that the Crosshair 15 isn't a piece of crap as it doesn't scream gamer (the only "gamer" thing about it to me seems like the trackpad and the vents at the bottom), and seems to have decent components. I wish it was a bit thicker as my father takes his current laptop around quite a bit and needs something that's a bit durable, but it seems that durable options either don't exist, or are priced at a premium. ASUS's TUF lineup would be ideal as the plastic that is used seems quite durable, and they are advertised as that, but all of their TUF laptops have either had heat issues, terrible components, or both.

 

I honestly don't know of any company that sells a great notebook at this point. There is nothing available that stands out as something that I would be eager to spend any of my money on. There are lots of options, but all of them junk.

 

Shipping a reference design with the power limit bumped to 65W and yet be unable to sustain it, lol.

Heres to more years of '100C is just fine' dellcrap

 

HUB's initial review of an i7 11800H Gigabyte Aero laptop. Good gains for Intel this go around, but AMD still leads in most heavily multi-threaded workloads. Ryzen seems more efficient at lower power levels with Intel closing the gap at higher limits. But with team blue looking like it will cost more pound for pound, team red is still probably going to be the better option if you can find one and don't need Thunderbolt.

 

how much does cpu affect gaming?


trying to decide between 11980HK vs 11800h (same laptop. with a 3080).

i really have little use for an i9 and the cost savings would be nice, but i dont want to leave performance on the table when im trying to game at 4k.

 

Get the cheaper CPU. CPU difference won't matter at all when gaming at 4K since you'll be GPU limited.

 

If there's only 200$ difference between H and HK models get HK model. There are OEM that may sudden disable undervolting by pushing updates via windows updates or their (OEM_Name) update managers.

 

its $499 more but i rather not spend $3500 on a laptop

15.6 UHD AMOLED
8gb mobile 3080
i7-11800H
1 TB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD
16 GB DDR4 3200MHz
$2,999.00


15.6 UHD AMOLED
16gb mobile 3080
i9-11980HK
1.5 TB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD
32 GB DDR4 3200MHz
$3,499.00


going the 11800h one, since sounds like the i9 wont help me hit 60 fps any easier

 

HK seems pointless then. You won't see any difference. 3500$ for soldered non upgraded machine is too much! Unless it came with 4yr premium warranty + ADP 3500$ is too much when you can invest that cash into something or save up!

 

Thing is i had two laptops, a light&thin and a desktop replacement. I spend 99% of my time on the light laptop.
The manufacture(google) wont fix it so im trying to get a new laptop than can have enough battery for media/surfing a couple of hours and then game without the laptop being too huge.

So i sold my Alienware 51m (9700k/64gb ram/2080/2.1tb) and im looking at the Aero 15.

im already out money since the alienware sold for a lot less than i paid for it, so thats why i dont wanna spend another $3500 if i can avoid it.

im mostly paying the premium for a good screen (4k AMOLED Pantone) and it being light/decent battery life.

 

Your wants for a 4K screen and decent battery life are at odds with each other.

When gaming, you'll be hard-pressed to see ~2 hours from a full battery, much less after surfing/videos of a couple of hours or so.

 

its decent enough that i can do my daily task without it dying, and im coming from a 2400x1600 laptop so really prefer the resolution.

according to reviews youre going to want to game plugged in to be able to get playable fps, which is fine. The main thing is its portable enough to be a daily driver, thats not something i could do on my 51m. that never left my desk.

 

alright ordered the gigabyte 15 YD-73US624SP.

notebook check has a new review on the 17inch version and it seems to play most games alright at 4k for being 105W.

4k:

Final Fantasy XV Benchmark (2018) 45.4 fps
X-Plane 11.11 (2018) 62.2 fps
Far Cry 5 (2018) 54 fps
Strange Brigade (2018) 77 fps
Cyberpunk 2077 (2020) 27.9 (52.9 on 1080p ultra)

 

Intel Tiger Lake: Due to the shortage of chips, some notebooks are to be delivered without USB 4 notebookcheck.com | Today



Intel emphasizes that the user experience will not be limited by using these chips, however it is currently difficult to predict whether compatibility problems with USB 4 devices can be expected under certain circumstances. For consumers, it should be impossible to find out before buying a notebook whether it actually supports the latest USB standard, while the USB standard itself becomes even more opaque.

 

More like Apple-esque move and force selling of TB3/4 docks due to shortage of USB4 boards/ICs.

 

AMD Ryzen 7 5800H vs Intel i7-11800H - Best 8 Core Laptop CPU?

7:52 Conclusion - AMD or Intel?

 

Thunderbolt.

 

My Choice would be AMD solely for on-the-go performance.

 

Given that higher power limits are possible, Intel is the better buy here (for a mere 3% price hit).

I'd rather have the option to have full power and performance than merely accept lower performance all the time.

Thunderbolt, PCIe 4 (GPU + SSD) and so many other benefits that the Intel platform offers over AMD.

But, as the video states, choose your chassis/platform wisely.

There are not many places I can go that have no power outlets for use.

 

Not to mention better battery life and thermals.

For the gaming tests i expect Intel to be ahead somewhat. Personally you cant do no wrong going with AMD or Intel these days. Competition is always good!

 

Are these 11th Gen CPU's upgradeable like my P770DM Skylake is or is the new 12th Gen Alderlake totally different? Does anyone know what the best retailer is for including modified BIOS options like what @Prema has offered? I have his BIOS in my current laptop and I can't believe how incredibly tuneable it is. Are TDP limits alterable without a modified BIOS or is that something that is locked down? I'm looking at the Clevo NH77HPQ with RTX 3060 and it looks like they all say CPU is 45W TDP but I don't understand if that means that they only run at that or if that's just the baseline.

 

That laptop has a soldered CPU.

 

And soldered GPU. He is used to fully socket hardware

BGA Venting Thread - Ball grid array - Wikipedia

 

Wow, now I get why there's a BGA venting thread. I've honestly been out of the scene for the last 5 years and I don't think I had fully realized just how static the laptop market has become (and in some cases the desktop as well). I do in fact remember several members here talking about BGA back in 2015 and they certainly saw the writing on the wall, hoping by some miracle the "enthusiast" market vendors would fight back. Bummer.

 

TB4, PCI4 doesn't matter since I don't have any TB3/4 devices/dongles. We have frequent power cuts so battery performance and runtime is critical for me. Then again, even with power limits disabled on 11th gen Intel my ambient's of 30-45C+ will still throttle the CPU, pair it with crippled firmware updates it will be another Jokebook besides my AW BGA book.

 

AMD Ryzen 7 5800H vs Intel i7-11800H - Gaming Tests
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ryzen-vs-intel.836144/page-11#post-11111557

 

AMD Ryzen 9 5980HX Cezanne Flagship Benchmarked, Comes Close To Intel’s Core i9-11980HK Tiger Lake Flagship WCCFTECH.COM