Nvidia Thread

Wait, so the 2070 non-Max-Q - highest performance in a laptop 2070, is all of 5% faster than the 10 series full 1080 laptop GPU? Pfffft!!

And, that's probably a "cherry-picked" 1080 laptop "lowball" score... what does the "magical" Clevo P870 1080 GPU score at this benchmark, or the MSI GT75 1080 GPU score, for example?

Again, re-enforcing the fact that the 20 series RTX GPU's are just a price jacked rename / rebrand of the 10 series, a total non-event rip-off of a GPU release.

 

Ding ding ding.. FE pricing is $299. FE pricing for the 2060 is rumored to be $349. That is a $50 dollar increase. The rumored prices say nothing of after market cards, nor did I. Current prices of GTX 1060 prices on Newegg range from $200-300 with most decent cards around $250-275. $75 is a small price to pay to get double the performance. Dare I say it's far better than what AMD is offering with their laughable RX 590 upcharge, or maybe their "rebranded" RX 580, I mean 570.

 

Maybe ask Apisak (He is a known leak) https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1078835220659355648

 

Yeah, you are playing the Nvidia "mash-up" FE/AIB pricing game, aren't you, or did you even notice?

Nvidia can't price the 2060 FE even higher than the AIB this time as that pricing encroaches into the 2070 pricing.

So Nvidia is pricing the AIB/FE at the same MSRP this time - like it did before the 10 series, but just for the 2060:

" The GeForce RTX 2060 will be introduced on January 7th at the price of 349 USD (same price for custom and Founders Edition cards)."
https://videocardz.com/79505/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2060-pricing-and-performance-leaked

So, the AIB price vs AIB price is indeed $100 higher in MSRP than the 1060 AIB $249 release vs 2060 AIB $349 release.

Please stop trying to justify Nvidia's price gouging, you are encouraging their deceptive pricing practices and price gouging both.

 

You posted it as fact, you do the work to find the true facts and post them, I've already done enough of your / @Talon's fact checking for one day.

Do it right the first time and I won't need to post a correction.

 

None know the facts... yet

 

Friend don't let friends drive under the influence of Nvidia deceptions.

Again, you're doing it, posting information as facts and then retreating into, hey man, don't have a cow, it's not real - we don't really know - once those facts get challenged.

If you want to claim value for performance on MSRP, then you damn well better back it up with MSRP facts, and don't play the Nvidia-stooge by the manipulation of details to deceptively make a false point.

I'm not the only one here that pays close attention to details, neither of you are fooling anyone but yourselves.

The 1060 AIB $249 MSRP vs 2060 AIB $349 MSRP is Nvidia's BS establishing a $100 higher price point from 10 series generation to 20 series for AIB GPU's; pending actual announcement and release info.

 

I posted


And The Founders Edition (Gtx 1060) implementation will sell for $300 on nvidia.com https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-pascal,4679.html

Then compare it with coming RTX2060 at 349 USD. What is wrong with my info? I said add $50 on top. You said Nope.

 

Too easy.

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7...060-gaming-6g-graphics-card-review/index.html -- MSI Gaming X GTX 1060 was $299 at launch in this review, the same price as the Nvidia FE 1060, well slightly cheaper. Yeap pretty much $50 cheaper like I said. Especially as you just quoted them saying the FE and OEM cards will be same price this round with 2060 as to not cut into 2070 sales.

$50 for some pretty massive gains in normal rasterized games, in addition to RTX features and DLSS is a very small price/tax to pay over last gen. The 2060 actually looks like a solid value for the mid range consumers.

Edit: Again this is all rumors or leaks at this point. I would love to see the prices even lower, but that would require AMD to actually be competitive again.

 

Ok wiseguy's, which one of you two has *ever* bought or recommended someone else buy an Nvidia Founders / Reference edition as a better buy than an AIB GPU?

If either one of you have, then I concede that everyone that buys an overpriced 2060 FE edition GPU @ $349 are only getting priced gouged by $50 over the 1060 FE $299 MSRP price.

For everyone else that forgoes getting suckered into buying overpriced Nvidia FE GPU's, and by that I mean the vast majority of GPU buyers, will be contributing to Nvidia's bad behavior by being price gouged by $100 for their 2060 AIB GPU @ $349 MSRP vs the 1060 AIB GPU MSRP of $249.

Except for stripping an FE GPU to convert it to water cooling, I can't think of a good reason we've ever had to recommend FE / Reference GPU's over AIB GPU's.

 

To sum up @hmscott ramblings above...

GTX 1060 FE was $299
GTX 1060 Gaming X from MSI was $299 on Newegg at launch in review linked above
RTX 2060 FE (and aftermarket) is rumored/leaked $349

For $50 you get DLSS, RTX features, Turing architecture support, and a massive performance uplift over previous gen 1060.

Both companies can and have been shady. It's funny you mention bad behavior with launch pricing and such. AMD's latest GPU product seemed to have launched under false pricing premises! Yes, those Vega "launch" prices they used to skew initial reviews and deceive their consumers.

https://wccftech.com/amds-rx-vega-64s-499-price-tag-was-a-launch-only-introductory-offer/

Dude at the end of the day both AMD and Nvidia are corporations with the sole purpose of making money for the publicly traded company. They have a legal responsibility to their shareholders to make maximum profits. AMD isn't a white knight company.

 

So now you stoop so low as to use an AIB GPU priced @ $299 that is *above* release MSRP of AIB $249 to prove your pointless point?

Using the fact that there are usually few AIB GPU's shipped at MSRP to prove that Nvidia's rip-off pricing deceptions from last generation justify the rip-off pricing deceptions of this generation? Pffft!!

At $399, $50 more than the 2060 MSRP of $349 you *might* find a desirable 2060 AIB 6GB DDR6 GPU as more than likely all the AIB 2060's of value - the 6GB DDR6 models - will be priced higher than AIB MSRP.

We'll most likely only find the less desirable single fan models, or models with less VRAM or slower DDR5 VRAM near that $349 MSRP.

Nvidia always telegraphs it's deceptive moves before they even deliver product.

For those of you wanting to get caught up, here's my original post, 3 pages back:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-129#post-10839810

The MSRP of the GTX 1060 was $249, do a simple google search and stop being blinded by ignorance:
https://www.google.com/search?q=nvi...ome..69i57.10735j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Rip-off pricing or not... $349 vs. $299 and the magic number $50 is still valid whatever you turn it to be

This is somewhat wrong (I compared Apples vs. apples)... http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-130#post-10839823

 

RTX 2060 DEATH of Mid-Range GPUs!
The Good Old Gamer
Published on Dec 29, 2018
After some time away the reveal that the Geforce RTX 2060 may come stripped down in 6 different variants I knew this signals the END of the Mainstream PC Gamer.


Nick 47 minutes ago
"Excellent break down GOG! Kinda sad to see the days of HD 5870s come to an end. Top tier performance for under $400 is now the fevered dream of a madman. Ill stick with my 390 until I can get 1080ti performance for a reasonable price"

The Good Old Gamer 31 minutes ago
"I remember buying the Geforce 6800GT for $399. It was the same core/die as the 6800 Ultra just cheaper. A little overclocking and it was just as fast. Now $399 get's you a cut down version of a low end chip. No thanks."

CyberClu 24 minutes ago (edited)
"I'm still at 1080p gaming, and just got an RX 580 8GB used mining card for $150. If Navi comes out next year as predicted at $250 for near GTX 1080 performance, I may upgrade to 1440p. But, I agree, these high Nvidia prices are killing the PC gaming market..."

This is why 2018 was TERRIBLE for PC...
JayzTwoCents
Published on Dec 29, 2018
2018 had a lot of ups and downs when it comes to PC, but today we go over some of what really hurt the PC industry. Let’s see if 2019 can turn it around.

 

Not even nvidia knows. I think nvidia won GPU race this year just like Intel did when Bulldozer demolished AMD instead of Intel. I don't think Navi will be come close to 2080 Ti gaming performance but AMD will market it as compute oriented instead of pure gaming just to save themselves. Unless Navi kicks the green team pricing will be similar to iphones just to show nvidia is giving the best product in the market.

 

I agree with you on the $50 price increase part, but that videocardz link that was posted a page or so ago was showing a 40-60% performance improvement in most games over the 1060, it was only a Vulkan title (Wolfenstein) that showed nearly 100% increase in performance, but that's because Turing is insanely good at Vulkan. A 40-60% jump in performance is a pretty good generational increase though when it comes to the xx60 cards, it's a lot more impressive deal than the other Turing cards which show less performance increase in comparison to their corresponding Pascal brothers. A $50 increase in price doesn't seem that bad for this specific card given it's larger performance increase and the lack of competition.

 

The release MSRP of the GTX 1060 was $249 which makes the bump in price point to $349 a full $100, do a simple google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=nvidia+1060+msrp+$249&oq=nvidia+1060+msrp+$249

Given the usual MSRP price inflation the $349 for the 2060 will soon become $399 and up for the desirable 2060 6GB DDR6 AIB sku's.

Turning that "$50 increase" into a real world $150+ increase, bumping the 2060 real market price to $400+

There are plenty of GTX 1070, 1070ti, 1080, and RX Vega 56 / 64 GPU's used and new for less, much better buys than the Nvidia RTX BS.

And don't forget, all of those Nvidia Series 10 GPU's and AMD GPU's have 8GB of VRAM, whereas even the top model RTX 2060 only has a maximum of 6GB of VRAM.

So even if the $400 RTX 2060 6GB can give 1070ti level performance, an actual GTX 1070ti 8GB will have 2GB more VRAM and cost less, providing plenty of "competition":

Ebay 1070ti 8GB BuyItNow - 100 current listings

Ebay 1070 8GB BuyItNow - 436 current listings

Ebay 1080 8GB BuyItNow - 98 current listings

Ebay Radeon Vega 8GB/16GB BuyItNow - 145 current listings

 

RTX 2060 why is there six ?? Ill tell ya why cause its a ripoff
not an apple fan
Published on Dec 30, 2018

Spoiler: Uses magical Irish superlatives, expletives, NSFW?

Sacco Belmonte 5 hours ago
"Some stock analyst said " Nobody is gonna believe Jensen for a while"...that pretty much wraps it up."

Joe O Sullivan 1 hour ago
"I think people should avoid ray tracing cards until it actually works properly. So far it's just a gimmick. As you said "puddles and reflections". What I mean by "working properly" is that ray tracing should be replacing all the effects.. lighting, shadows, god rays, etc.. Like that Star Wars demo.

You know it's a gimmick when everything still looks the same, and you have to look really hard to find the effects. You'd want to be silly to buy this generation of RTX unless it's a good deal, or unless you just have too much money.

Nvidia should really be selling these cards at a reduced price just to get lots them into circulation so that developers will focus more on ray tracing. If the 2080's had been a reasonable price I would have bought one, instead of a used 1080ti, a few months ago. Or, if ray tracing actually looked good I may even have splashed out the extra £200. But not for puddles and reflections!"

TheReihn 3 hours ago
"Well the day Nvidia released the RTX series all the people with some brain they said don't buy them until we have some benchmarks. After we saw the benchmarks many ppl said skip this generation or buy the 10 series if u need a gpu right now. But still all the fanboys went to buy the overpriced "NEW" cards. Nvidia is capitalizing the fact that ppl will buy everything they produce cant blame them for that. I just pray for AMD to save us."

Max Hughes 5 hours ago
"Me Too. 20/12/2018 Strix Vega 56 $350. Before I get my next check I'll be eating the paper off the empty food cans. but after 18 months of waiting for a good price, I got one."

 

Another intelligent person that "broke the code", and figured out all the GTX 1060 owners that paid $249 at release are now still holding the best Nvidia GPU at that price point.

The RTX 2060 @ $349 MSRP is priced out of the GTX 1060 price point established for the '60 GPU's of $199-$249 over many generations - see video starting @04:35.

The GTX 1070ti at $349(-$400) makes the $349(-$400) RTX 2060 a drop in replacement at that price. The RTX 2060 is a 10 series GTX 1070ti relabeled at the same price. You are paying the same money for the same performance - that's *not* an upgrade. Sadly, it's even worse than that, the 2060 6GB has 2GB less VRAM than the 1070ti 8GB at the same price.

It's better to buy the GTX 1070ti and avoid the whole Nvidia RTX generation BS rip-off. Send a message to Nvidia that you don't support their bad behavior... even better, send a stronger message and buy an AMD Vega GPU instead.

The RTX 2060 release is another total flop, and probably worse, considering there are worse performing 3GB-4GB models. Given the lack of real overall performance boost from GTX 1070ti -> RTX 2060 it also looks like the DDR6 upgrade doesn't mean squat in most games / applications.

Protecting Corporate Interests OVER Your Own BEST Interests?
The Good Old Gamer
Published on Dec 31, 2018
Today I was reading through Techpowerup's article on the news of the Geforce RTX 2060's launch price of $349. While reading through the comments, one user epitomized my frustration with many PC Enthusiasts today.


Sea BelowMe 8 hours ago
"It's not ranty if it's the truth. Here in Australia the GTX 780 Ti (the last high end GPU I bought) was about $700 - $800, if you want the RTX 2080 Ti the cheapest is $1900, if you want the ROG Strix $2450. It's a five year gap, I'm sure that inflation and exchange rate has not had that much of an impact, the price is criminal here."

Clint Williams 8 hours ago (edited)
"Well said, nvidia needs a wakeup call big time."

bgtubber 6 hours ago (edited)
"Nothing will curb Nvidia's hubris more than not giving your hard earned money to them. Realistically very few people need 1080/2080ti level of graphics performance for gaming and with most games you could do perfectly fine with an RX580/590 or a Vega 56. I almost feel dirty having a 1080ti in my work PC right now, but unfortunately I didn't have a choice since the software I work with is CUDA only. BTW, welcome back and Happy New Year!"

 

It's 1th Jan. Not 1th April

NVIDIA Titan V Raytraces Battelfield V in RTX mode at proper perf (but does not have any RT cores) Guru3d.com | 01/01/2019 11:03 AM

It is a bit of a remarkable story really, but users have enabled RTX mode on a Nvidia Titan V, which works quite well and performs as fast as the RTX 2080 Ti. Titan V, however, is Volta, and Volta does not have any RT cores.

These new findings do make us wonder what the actual effect of RT has on performance. It has to be stated, these are merely user reports and we cannot verify any test methodologies used here (testing in an RT enhanced environment would be one concern that comes to mind).

Regardless, these are interesting find but for now, please do take them with caution and a few grains of salt.

 

That's no surprise because RT cores are not special. When announced, people blew off having the mobile GPU demo doing RT, performed by Imagination PowerVR in 2014 or 2016.

All that matters is how quickly the hardware can do the specific computations. Theoretically, specialized cores can help do the math quicker, but it isn't necessary. Hence why I argued awhile ago, in regards to GPUs, AMD was not that far behind (argument made after performance numbers were released, but cannot remember exactly when I made it). AMD is planning to combine SIMD (GCN which has good compute) with VLIW (type used before adopting GCN), but with master and slave ALUs and not requiring passing to cache before the ALU can grab the result and use it, IIRC.

Now, this also doesn't mean Nvidia didn't make an advancement. In my rant a couple weeks ago in the Ryzen/Vega thread, I mentioned Nvidia seems a bit behind in disintegrating their chips compared to AMD and Intel (breaking things down to chiplets or removing key parts of the die to their own chips). What they are doing well in, though, is creating specialized core designs which will later be broken off into their own chiplets, eventually. Nvidia's multi-gpu die white paper suffers the same problem AMD currently faces, which is GPU NUMA nodes. Game developers said they will not support GPU NUMA. So...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Nvidia Targeted With Class Action Lawsuits Over Crypto Crash
by Paul Alcorn December 30, 2018 at 11:25 AM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-class-action-lawsuit-cryptocurrency-amd,38304.html

► 0:53 - Nvidia Sued for Crypto Misleading

 

*deleted*

 

*deleted*

 

Nvidia rebranded Volta as Turing with few mods to engine to make it RTX to appeal consumers.

 

GDDR6 Memory Costs 70 Percent More than GDDR5
by btarunr Today, 06:40
The latest GDDR6 memory standard, currently implemented by NVIDIA in its GeForce RTX 20-series graphics cards, pulls great premium. According to a 3DCenter.org report citing list-prices sourced from electronics components wholeseller DigiKey, 14 Gbps GDDR6 memory chips from Micron Technology cost over 70 percent more than common 8 Gbps GDDR5 chips of the same density, from the same manufacturer. Besides obsolescence, oversupply could be impacting GDDR5 chip prices.

Although GDDR6 is available in marginally cheaper 13 Gbps and 12 Gbps trims, NVIDIA has only been sourcing 14 Gbps chips. Even the company's upcoming RTX 2060 performance-segment graphics card is rumored to implement 14 Gbps chips in variants that feature GDDR6. The sheer disparity in pricing between GDDR6 and GDDR5 could explain why NVIDIA is developing cheaper GDDR5 variants of the RTX 2060. Graphics card manufacturers can save around $22 per card by using six GDDR5 chips instead of GDDR6.

Source: 3DCenter.org

Add in better and more components on the graphics card and you can see you can't charge same prices as previous gen. Why some think nvidia would sell it for Pascal prices... Oh'well.

 

The price of DDR5 *now* isn't the price of DDR5 or DDR5x at the launch of Pascal. Nvidia's price isn't the price of public availability, it's much less.

With the lackluster performance effects of DDR6 in most games / applications, to me it looks like the DDR6 premium cost is a waste of money. It's all for "show", nothing for "go".

Besides Nvidia has long term contracts for memory, and likely got stuck with DDR6 before realizing it was a bad deal, too much cost with lackluster performance improvements.

It's yet another bad Nvidia management engineering decision, coupled or rather disconnected from financial responsibility. Nvidia should have continued to use up it's stock of DDR5x - and work down that inventory of past mistakes.

Nvidia screws up again.

 

New faster vram have been hyped long time. Expect people would ask themself why nvidia wouldn't go for latest, (greatest ) and newest tech on their new models. Whatever Nvidia have done... It would be wrong

 

A tech review website that doesn’t realize Titan V has and always will support RTX and has tensor cores. It may not have Nvidias specialized dubbed RT cores but it has a lot of tensor cores which NVIDIA uses for RTX.

Quality journalism.

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-talks-ray-tracing-and-volta-hardware/

 

Yup, like I said Nvidia DDR6 is all "show" and no "go", just like the rest of the RTX "innovations". Don't fall for it, get the 10 Series, AMD GPU's, or wait for Nvidia to put out a real upgrade release - soon?

GDDR5 Vs GDDR6 – What Is The Difference?
https://www.faceofit.com/gddr5-vs-gddr6/

Maybe it will help for the professional and commercial applications that depend on memory bandwidth, but for the consumer applications - games - few of them will benefit from the 15% percentage improvement.

15% paper improvement in memory performance, with a 0% real performance improvement in most applications / games doesn't justify a 70% cost bump. That's another Nvidia screwup.

 

It would be stupid of me buy 10 series and yesterday's notebooks. I bough my Clevo in 2015, skipped 1080 and then buy +2 years old graphics now... Nope. Wont happen. But I will follow whats coming... I don't buy without knowing what I will get. This both for laptops and desktop if I go that route.

 

Sorry man, it looks like you, and a whole lot of other people waiting, should have bought those MXM 1070's and 1080's, as it looks like you've all wasted a lot of good waiting time for no good result.

The "new" RTX MXM GPU's will likely max out in power / thermals right near the best 1080 oc made 2 years ago.

The RTX GPU Turing core technology is the same as Pascal, as are the power and thermal requirements. It's not possible to expect much better from the RTX 20 series than what the Pascal GTX 10 series attained in laptops.

Even if it is a little faster, it's gonna put out more heat, draw more power, and it's gonna cost a crap load more than even the outrageous MXM GPU prices from 2 years ago,

So watch out, be sure and dodge that RTX bullet and continue to wait until the 7nm GPU's arrive... from AMD *or* Nvidia.

You could pick up a nice used GTX 1080 / 1070 MXM to tide you over, but hopefully it won't be too long before a good 7nm MXM GPU arrives. Maybe another year or so...

 

There is no point in speculating whether this will be a good buy or how it will perform in advance. The results will come then decide what to buy. I have saved up since I bough my Clevo in 2015. A good rule of thumb... Save up while you can(start once you have your new toy in hand). I can of course skip even one more generation and save up more money. But what if I say the same next or the year after?

 

The difference is this generation is the same process and architecture as the last generation, just more elements to gain more performance, and we already have the desktop power requirements for the RTX 20 series and GTX 10 series.

It's an easy comparison between the two to see it's going to be the same situation for mobile with the RTX 20 series as it was for the GTX 10 series

Anything past a single GTX 1080 / RTX 2070 level power requirement per MXM socket is going to be unlikely. Just like the GTX 1080ti wasn't doable, neither will a 2080, as they have the similar power and cooling requirements, which are outside the capability of current MXM implementations - your laptop for example.

It's possible given the desperation to deliver at least one "faster" than 1080 / 2070 GPU for laptops that someone will shoehorn a 2080 / 1080ti into a laptop, but it might not be doable in the standard MXM format that would be backwards compatible.

The 7nm GPU's should use less power for the same performance, and deliver more performance for the same power. So those 7nm GPU's should be able to deliver more performance per watt in mobile given the same MXM power and cooling limitations.

In short, the 10 series power limitations match the 20 series power limitations, so not much more can be done that couldn't have been done with the 10 series. If a 2080 makes it into laptops, why didn't the 1080ti as well?

Again, a nice 1080 MXM would be a good hold-over should the 2070 MXM not deliver enough performance - or the 2070 puts out too much heat - or the 2070 MXM costs too much.

I wouldn't wait on getting that 1080 MXM GPU though, as with the GTX 10 series desktop GPU's once people figured out the 20 series were not desirable the prices for the 10 series new and used went up.

IDK what the 1080 MXM price is right now, but it could go up quickly or be impossible to find after the RTX MXM's are announced / delivered.

 

That was also from March 2018, six months before the official release and every press journalist had cards in hand. So that is forgivable. This was during a presentation last spring to show off DXR, which AMD even showed off Radeon Rays around then. There were a lot of bad rumors around that time, which even I couldn't dig through to get answers. So Volta and ray tracing were all you could show at the time. Remember, always look at dates and put information into context.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

They could have gone with HBM2.

 

HBM2 high price and low availability seems to be a large part of why AMD canned 7nm Vega 2 for consumers.

 

Going with GDDR6x is going to be cheaper in a long term. 2080 with 256-bit width GDDR6 gets pretty close to the memory bandwidth of 356-bit width GDDR5X 1080ti. Since less bit-width and less number of memory chips will offset the higher price of GDDR6 and the price of GDDR6 will go down over time. Also, since GDDR6x supposedly should draw less power than GDDR5x, it probably makes it possible to put 2080 in a laptop.

Nvidia is pretty conservative in terms of moving to next memory tech. I don't think they would have gone GDDR6 if it didn't manke any financial sense to do so.

 

That and the memory controller for gddr6 is compatible with gddr5x (cannot remember if it is compatible with gddr5). Because of that, if something goes wrong on supply of memory, you can throw out a new SKU as a stop gap, whereas a shortage on HBM2 leaves you stuck holding your **** in your hand. So there is that as well. And the cost of integration onto an interposer....

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

That isn't necessarily true, financial sense is what Nvidia has lost given the huge bump up in MSRP's this generation. Nothing like it seen before now, it's ridiculous how much the price points have bumped up. No, Nvidia have no financial sense, at least they have no financial responsibility to their customers.

You keep calling it DDR6x, there is no DDR6x...check the specs again:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/rtx-2080-ti/

"Frame Buffer 11GB GDDR6 11GB GDDR6 11 GB GDDR5X"

If DDR6 is costing a 70% bump in price, and only a 15% bump in performance (at most), then it's not a worthwhile improvement technically, it's only for "show" not "go", it's only there to pump up the visuals on the marketing sheets.

DDR6 may be the only thing differentiating Series 20 from Series 10 technology wise, but it's still not worth the extra cost - if any - Nvidia blew it again - cost / financially / engineering design / technically - Nvidia screwed up once again.

 

Sorry for the typos but you probably know well that I meant gddr6, no need to nitpick stuff there.

Bump up on MSRP is due to many different factors. They want to clear their pascal inventory but they have no pressure to cut the price of their existing line up since they have no pressure from AMD to release anything new anytime soon. So they instead released Turing GPUs on higher price bracket insteard of outright replacing their pascal line up.

 

Call it like it is, Nvidia screwed up; Nvidia are a bunch of screw ups.

Nvidia's BS is attempting to fool you and I into giving them more money for a bunch of nothing. The same performance as Series 10 for the same or more money as Series 10, with different labels and names.

Except for the 2080ti $1300 and Titan RTX $2500, both reaching new heights of ludicrous pricing - with Zero price vs performance justification - none of the "new" Series 20 GPU's are "new".

The 20 Series are all re-branded, renamed, rehashed performance from the last generation 10 Series, overpriced "new" Nvidia sucker-bait for the unwary.

Don't make excuses for Nvidia, unless you want to look like a screwup too.

Watch the video from the beginning, the " The Good Old Gamer" had it right, stop making excuses for corporate entities that are out to screw you out of your money:

[Why are you] Protecting Corporate Interests OVER Your Own BEST Interests?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-132#post-10840618

And his previous video:

RTX 2060 DEATH of Mid-Range GPUs!
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-132#post-10839951

 

Results don't require excuses, but they do come with a high price tag and that kind of sucks.

http://hwbot.org/submission/4029471_ | https://www.3dmark.com/vrpbr/51871

Remember the old trucker's bumper stickers? It's still true today.

Wish you could open the spoiler for all 3 of the rating classes at the same time in the benchmark window to see what specs constitutes their definitions of "Premium," "High End" and "VR-ready" classifications.

"High End"

"VR-ready"

 

I am not really defending Nvidia with their prices lately. They are simply taking advantage of their superior lineup against their competitor and only trying to maximize their profits.

When Titans were nothing more than a glorified top of the line gaming GPU, $1200 was probably the best price they could charge. But now machine learning became the next big thing and Titans became sort of entry point of GPUs for that purpose, so while the price became ridiculous just for gaming, it is pretty good value for machine learning purpose.

I am definitely not going to recommend $2500 Titans for gaming, and disagree with the fact that it is not really good time to purchase GPUs with Nvidia enjoying near monopoly on higher end GPU market and AMD is not likely to compete in that space for foreseeable future. But it is ridiculous to push some kind of moral agenda against a company who is simply taking advantage of their market position and superior technology, and calling people fools for buying their product at asked prices. Whether they are worth the price is completely subjective, and frankly, it is none of your business even if they are willing to pay the price.

 

Spoiler: I'll get to it all later...

There's nothing wrong with speaking up about atrocities before they happen. Warning the unwary, those subject to fuzzy thinking and gullible to marketing BS, the "suckers" as they are referred to at the places that take their money.

Warning those poor people - helping them see the mechanism of their demise before they fall victim to it, is just the same as pulling someone out of the way of an approaching bus that is about to crush them.

If you are taking it personally, good. If seeing the truth makes you uneasy, good. That's all part of the process of waking up.

Wake up.

There are now thousands of woke individuals no longer slaves to Nvidia, speaking out all over the internet, why not join us instead of funding Nvidia's RTX follies?

 

I don't think most people who frequent tech forums and at least have some interest in tech industry in general would be fooled by their marketing "BS" or whatever you choose to call it.
I am just looking at the market situation and seeing how and why the all those GPUs are priced the way it is right now, without getting into any agenda you are trying to push. No one is really taking this personal as much as you do .

 

RTX 2080 TI Vs GTX 1080 TI SLI 4K Shadow Of The Tomb Raider Frame Rate Comparison
DudeRandom84
Published on Oct 10, 2018
This is a requested video... enjoy!


MightySquirrel 2 months ago
"But it's not fair 2 x 1080 ti's are .... cheaper, than one 2080ti. oh wait"

Filomar-T 2 months ago
"bought my 1080Ti last year for just over 700 euro's..the 2080Ti is just over 1400 here..screw that 20 series.....got the money but its a matter of principle to me."

Call Of Duty Black Ops 4 RTX 2080 TI Vs GTX 1080 TI SLI Vs GTX 1080 SLI Frame Rate Comparison
DudeRandom84
Published on Oct 17, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

うずまき ナルト 2 months ago
"The 1080 ti is more powerful than 980 ti sli, but the 2080 ti is weaker than 1080 sli. Very disappointing, especially at the high price."

Pixels 2 months ago
"1080ti sli still cheaper than single 2080ti."

Haas360 2 months ago
"As someone that has 1080 in SLI and was struggling to resist going back to single card. Thank you. SLI has its issues, but when the scaling works, I see no reason to upgrade. More 1080 sli tests! Thanks DudeRandom84!"

Battlefield 5 RTX 2080 TI Vs GTX 1080 TI SLI Vs GTX 1080 SLI Frame Rate Comparison
DudeRandom84
Published on Nov 22, 2018

Spoiler: Click to See Video

With the superior performance of the 1080 SLI and 1080ti SLI besting a single 2080ti, it seems that the only useful upgrade is directly to a 2080ti SLI - otherwise you are paying more money for less performance.

The Titan RTX is barely 10 FPS faster than the 2080ti, so you'd also need to SLI the Titan RTX for that upgrade to make sense too.

Robi SE. 1 month ago (edited)
"2 1080s are cheaper then 1 2080ti"

Dima 1 month ago (edited)
"Confirming 6900k 1080ti SLI on ultrawide 1440p custom settings mostly ultra 100-120 fps. Thanks nVidia but I pass on RTX *vsync off, future frame rendering on, dx11."

Jazzy Penguin 2 weeks ago
"Imao: If you are running a 1080ti SLI and you are thinking of selling it to get a single 2080ti then it's not worth it."

 

And, who can actually blame them for that? I don't. In fact, I'd do exactly the same thing given the opportunity to maximize profits. That's what smart companies do. If the price turns out to be too high, they adjust to whatever the market will bear. Ain't nuttin' wrong wit dat.

Do I like it? Or course not. But, the only people belly-aching about it are just mad because prices went up and they feel entitled to some special right to be able to buy today's latest tech for the same price as yesterday's tech. News flash: during the same period of time, the same thing happened with eggs, milk, bread and gasoline.

Well, God bless 'em. They can pay too much for second-hand 1080 Ti cards and enjoy the upgrade for their 970/980/1060/1070 without having to dig too deep. Just remember, these are the same sheeple that once upon a time bought lesser GPUs because "1080 Ti was too expensive" and comforted themselves with the notion that they got more value from the weaker GPU. At any rate, that's a win for them and a win for the people getting more than they ever might have thought possible for their tired 2 year old 1080 Ti... so, everybody wins. They get a new RTX 2080 Ti about half paid for. If the people buying used 1080 Ti GPUs as upgrades are still playing the same games that they were playing merrily while using the old 1060 or 1070 or 1080, I think I would look at them as being the dumb-dumb using exactly the same rationale that it doesn't make sense to pay more for the 2080 Ti. I'd scratch my head and wonder why they're spending so much money on 2 year old tech that is now obsolete, and only to maintain their spot in second-fiddle (or worse) ranking like their old GPU was brand new.



I am not sure all of the people doing those comparisons on YouTube really know how to tune a system correctly. Some of them might, but I'd venture a guess that most of them are are just doing a click-and-run drive-by shooting. When I compare my heavily modded 1080 Ti to my stock 2080 Ti with no mods and cancer vBIOS (both tuned for maximum performance) there is a very noticeable, palpable and incredible difference in performance. Just imagine how much difference there would be with an unmodded 1080 Ti using the same sort of cancer firmware. Yes, the price is disgusting, but historical pricing aside, the jump in performance is not out of sync with the jump in price.

As I mentioned previously, the harder the graphical demand are (workload) the more distance there is between the 1080 Ti and 2080 Ti. It's not a small performance increase. Let's look again, shall we?


With that in mind... Let's start with weaker GPU workloads and work our way upstream from there... heavily modded overclocked 1080 Ti versus unmodded overclocked 2080 Ti.

Night Raid: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/nr/49822/nr/29234

3DMark Vantage: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dmv/5732950/3dmv/5720473

Sky Diver: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/sd/5372973/sd/5298175

3DMark 11: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/13076250/3dm11/12992232

Fire Strike: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/17696087/fs/16929134

Time Spy: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/5547809/spy/4865682


TL;DR - dispense with the nonsense and media hype and theoretical/philosophical cost-to-performance ratio mumbo-jumbo. If you want the best and have the money, just buy it. Poop or get off the pot. If you don't have the money, why are you flushing money down the toilet on an upgrade with obsolete parts you don't need simply because it is cheaper than a new 2080 Ti?

 

If you add in more parts than previous gen. As well more expensive parts... Why should you charge less or the same as before? Because you are forced to? Of course Nvidia could do the same as AMD. But if they did, they would do a lousy job for their owners. They don't run any charity shop, but pure business as all out there.

 

The 70% bump in price is only in reference to the VRAM component, and not the whole finished product (the whole card). A 15% increase in VRAM bandwidth, in any games that are bandwidth limited/sensitive, then that extra 15% bandwidth could provide quite a bump in performance. But we'd have to weigh up the overall added production cost to the card due to GDDR6 vs the overall performance increase in gaming to know if it was 'worth it'. I don't have those figures of course, but it's not as bad or as cut & dry as your phrasing first suggests.