OCZ Shipping 25nm SSDs, customers not happy over lack of change?

I got a response back from newegg essentially telling me that they can not disclose what the manufacturer is using 25nm or 34nm and all of the information on newegg was correct.

At the moment, thanks to the posters here, I believe that my drive is 34nm (luckily) and I will keep it, but I will not be buying from them for a while.

 

Really why not?

Consumers have the right to know exactly what they are getting.

 

Is there a way for Newegg to tell if OCZ didn't label which were 34 nm and which were 25 nm besides assuming all new stock is 25 nm? People would just try to return the SSD to Newegg saying it was defective or something. People did that with the Q6600 to get G0 stepping.

 

I just e-mailed newegg as to why they would not tell me whether the drive I had was 25nm or 34nm. Technically, when I think about it, they are correct that the information on the Newegg site is correct. They just did not disclose the fact that there was a switch from 34 to 25. Maybe they did not know about it either? When I sent that e-mail, it was before OCZ began to cave into the demands of their consumers (I think, its late here), so I might get a different response this time (hopefully)

 

NewEgg does not exactly have a way to know what is in those OCZ drives (remember, they did the change silently without a change in packaging). Even now, they don't know for sure. 34nm parts are still in the market, but the stock is probably getting quite depleted by now.

Basically comes down to this. Return the OCZ drive. This company is not one you want to have a business relationship with. Been there, done that, and multiple SSD failures/problems later I'm SSD-free and I'm staying like that for a long time.

 

I really thought the 25nm switch would be handled differently. That as in new models altogether. I figured it would just be 2x density but say a mark up of 50% per chip till prices came down.

That as in an old constructed model of say 120GB that sold for $230.00 could now be made as a 240GB but at 345.00. I also figured once the initial high markup of the chips came down you could again see 230.00 pricing of the higher capacity drive or even lower.

I guess my assumptions were wrong, at least by OCZ pollicies. I do however think what this thread is showing them to do is TOTALLY underhanded and unethical. At least when I got my Vertex 2 I didn't get an OCZ so they have none of my money.................

 

OCZ is the only vendor doing this bait & switch. Everybody else has publicly stated that when they switch over to 25nm in the next few weeks, they'll be updating the listed capacities and labeling on the box so that their customers know exactly what they're buying.

At any rate, even if I do get a Sandforce 2000-series SSD, which is looking unlikely given the preliminary stats Marvell and Intel have posted about their next-gen controllers, it won't be a Vertex 3 or anything from OCZ.

 

To those wanting an answer as to whether or not their drives are 25nm nand:

Source: Guide New update on the 25nm OCZ SSD drives

 

I just got a reply, and this is what was said


Dear Customer,

The reply I got is from our internal department. I do not know the reason why we cannot disclose the information. However, I will further check the issue. Any update will be posted online. Thank you.

I believe that OCZ is also keeping Newegg in the dark, but I do not have anything to back it. It is hard to believe a company would actually do something like this.

 

Hello, guys, a little question fast to answer, some of you know certainly the answer. I want to know: is that true that OCZ "hidden" transition from 34 nm NAND to 25 nm NAND only exist on lower capacity drives, especially on 60G, 90G and 120G. Because I recently purchased a 240 GB version, and I want to know if it is still 34nm. Thank you very much.

 

they have implemented 25 nm in every version of vertex2, but performance issues only affetct capacities uo to 120 gb, so you should be ok

 

why it doesn't affect 240 GB version? Doesn't the transition decrease 240GB performance?

 

Because they didn't(possibly because they cannot) switch to higher density chip. The problem is not about switching from 34nm -> 25nm(it is a minor issue) but from using 32Gbit chip to 64Gbit chip at the same time of the 'transition'.

 

I think performance may be affected on the 240 GB version, it's just that capacity isn't (which was the big "obvious" problem). From real-world testing, though, the performance drop is unnoticeable in real life, just there in benchmarks.

 

All 2nd gen sandforce drives are shipping 25nm. They sell a lot more 60/120gb drives, so you're more likely to get 25nm if you purchase one of those.

I got an 80gb after the switch and it is 34nm. If I RMA it, I'll get a 25nm in return.

 

hmm? why you return that? Doesn't the 34nm version more perform better than the 25 nm version?

How could we distingue the 2 version wthou open the cover? thank you

 

I don't find any information that indicates that smaller line width would affect performance so there is no reason why 240GB using 25nm chip would have performance difference.

As for real world testing, it depends on what kind of real world. If it is read heavy, it is not going to be noticeable, just like 40V is almost as fast as 80/160M in those scenarios.

 

According to OCZ, drives above 180GB have always used 64Gbit chips.

At any rate, the bigger drives like 240GB don't sell by the boatload so you might have received (relatively) old stock - what firmware version came on it? You can check via Intel RST.

 

I'm just saying that if I had to rma the drive for some reason....I would be sent a 25nm replacement.

 

I will check it as soon as I'd receive it. So 240 GB will not have any performance difference, right? That's good to hear. Thank you

 

The flipside of not having any performance difference is that the larger drives have always been slower. OCZ doesn't have any official data for the 240GB Vertex 2, but this chart is pretty damning when it comes to capacities greater than 120GB.

Either way, if you haven't even received and opened the drive yet, you should return it to the retailer for a refund and get a Corsair F240 (which is 34nm guaranteed) or one of the next-gen drives. Besides, there's the matter of why anyone would want to support OCZ and their shady business practices too.

 

Today, I read a lot of reviews on newegg about this ssd. And seriously, all those review cooled me down. All those failed OCZ ssd really scare me, and yes, I think I will return that to the seller and just use my Momentus XT. I am quiet disappointed about the Crucial C300 too with all its freezing issue after only 2 days of use. I think I will just wait for the intel x25-M g3. I really don't want to test other brand and am a little tired about all these deception and waster of money. I payed something like 125 euros just for the shipping fee with all SSD I tested and I hope the seller will refund me 100% money.

Thank you for all your information.

 

I just bought a Vertex2 60

It came with firmware 1.29 and it shows as 55gb

This sucks

On a lighter note maybe its more stable?

 

I just tried their toolbox version 2.33 and it doesnt recognize my drive.


No OCZ drive detected?

 

does your BIOS recognize it, that is more important.

 

Oh yeah it works fine.

Been using it for a few days now with out any issues.


This was just the first I have heard of the 35 to 25nm switch

 

Except the 240 GB isn't listed in that chart. All the AS-SSD benchmarks I can find for the 240 GB drive show that it's about as fast as the 100 GB and 120 GB versions. I'm pretty sure all of the benchmarks I found were for 34 nm drives, though, so 25 nm drives might have worse performance. Or they might be the same.

OCZ toolbox doesn't work with IRST 10. I'm not sure if it works with IRST 9, but I know it works with Intel Matrix (which is what I'm on).

 

works with 9

 

If any of you haven't already, you should run the new toolbox to find out if your purchase is 25nm or 34nm.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/ryderocz/sf/ocz_toolbox_v233.zip

I was told my drive is 34nm because of its formatted capacity. Running the new toolbox showed the drive is 25nm with 64gbit density. This is nasty crippling for drives that don't use all available channels.

 

So if I get 32gbit in that tool i'm ok right?

 

If you have 32Gbit chips, that means your model is not the 'crippled' batch. Whether it use 25nm or 34nm I have no idea but that should not be a concern.

 

if the drive is >= 100 GB, yes.
Higher capacity drives may be 25nm with 32gbit density, but if you return it, you'll likely get the same drive back (if they're out of 32gbit) unless you specify that you purchased the drive to RAID.
Even then, they're supposedly low on stock, so you never know.

 

well if my drive said 55GB and I paid for 60 I'be be more than mad.

I'm happy with my 34nm Agility 2... they weren't shipping 25nm last year .

that being said my Elitebook still is rocking a G1 80GB intel at 50nm.

 

Hm. Interesting. That tool tells me that my (240 GB) drive is on firmware 1.25 (which I already knew), and that the die size is 32 Gb. So apparently the older 240 GB Vertex 2s were still using lower density chips, which is surprising. I wonder what this might mean for the newer 25 nm large Vertex 2s.

 

They're using 32gb, but 25nm

 

i juzz only bought a ocz vertex 2 120gb i got die size of 64gb so must i sent it back to the person i bought for warranty so he can send it back 2 ocz ? but it will take a long time for me to get it back

 

OCZ I think have updated saying you can purchase an upgrade to the 32Gb 25nm from 64Gb 25nm

 

the exchange is free. You can either (attempt to) return it to the retailer from which you purchased or RMA to ocz. OCZ will send you a 25nm 32gb drive in return.

 

OCZ are claiming no 25nm 32Gbit chip drives have been ordered by suppliers.

 

...And I have had direct confirmation by the admin of ocz's support forum that there is a noticeable performance decrease between 32gb & 64gb - both @25nm (up to 20%)

But then again, he also suggested and authorized my rma, which has since been denied by OCZ.

 

There is a difference just as in the case of 40V vs 80M vs 160M, whether it only appears in benchmark or day to day use depends on nature of the usage. 40V being the slowest in x25m is still a perfectly fine OS drive(when the access is 80/20 in terms of read/write ratio). Same may be true for the crippled Vertex 2.

 

That's probably true, but the main problem is that OCZ tried to trick their very technologically-sophisticated customers... And those customers are rightfully angry about paying full price for an inferior product.

This whole fiasco could have been easily avoided had OCZ simply changed the advertised capacity and sold the 25nm drives as 55GB and 115GB Vertex 2's instead of 60GB and 120GB drives.

 

or like give it a name like Vetex 2 V or whatever.

I 100% believe that they had the intention of trying to get away with this and got caught. It is not a brand I am going to touch.

Just tried to put things back to perspective so people can make their own decision.

 

so my RMA was denied even after having 3 staff members tell me the 25nm 64gbit 80gb vertex 2's are inferior (in terms of performance) because "your model are not part of the exchange program, they only can replace your OCZSS2-2VTX80G as same identical drive replacement."

I guess that's because people are only complaining about 60/120gb models.

Another staff member at the forums got me another rma started though, so maybe this will work out. Kind of sad though. I bought ocz partially after hearing repeated reports of how great / speedy their service is.

 

where did you get that information ? OCZ support sucks.

 

Apparently from bad sources

 

I have thought about doing the RMA thing but to be honest im afraid I will be RMAing a good stable drive for one that will be DOA or just be junk in general

Its not slow!


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ATTO is a meaningless benchmark for SF drive, it only shows that your other setup(like chipset drivers) is ok, showing NOTHING about the drive itself.

Though for SF, whether it is working with your laptip is the most important so if doesn't show problem, why bother to RMA.

 

Yup I'm with chimpanzee...why would you RMA your drive? If you were scoring like 15 MB/sec in Crystal Disc Mark then I would be inclined to RMA...

 

They say you shouldnt run benchmarks like CDM or HDtune because of all the small writes it writes to the drive.