Pascal MXM GPU Upgrades

The only reason why i would have been happy with the aw13 is because i could decently game on it and i could get it for like 700usd and then sell it used here in my country for 1000usd give or take and thats used!. 300usd additional money put towards the upgrade of what would have been the batman 3.0 or the 870dm2. Crossing my fingers and hoping that many manufacturers will go into the whole egpu thing to drive the prices of the boxes down. More competition= better for us consumers as we all know. I'll try my luck approaching people i know from the local animation industry as i am hoping they would know someone who would need this kind of computing power and as soon as i get the payment i'll be running directly to @Larry@LPC-Digital to order the new batman and hopefully this time he can give me a better discount as i am a returning customer

 

AW eGPU is under $150 now on Amazon. Unfortunately, it is a proprietary piece of junk and does not work with TB3. I found a thread at Tech|Inferno where a guy was trying to mod one to use Thunderbolt instead of the proprietary Alienware connection and it seems to have been a waste of time.

https://www.amazon.com/Alienware-9R...&sr=8-1&keywords=alienware+graphics+amplifier

 

There is a good chance AW might be moving towards TB3 as well.

 

I voted in favor of MXM. Although I have consigned myself to buying a BGA notebook due to concerns about price and portability, I would absolutely love to have modular components like MXM creep their way down into smaller form factor notebooks. I highly doubt this will ever happen, but if it ever did, I would have folks like you supporting MXM at higher levels to thank for it. I also sympathize with the unfortunate situation that many Clevo and MSI owners are experiencing right now with violated expectations and broken promises for MXM upgradability, and I hope you get the upgrades you are due.

 

Thanks for your support. We really do appreciate it. It means a lot and every vote helps get the attention of the right people. Hopefully, our joint efforts can ensure this never happens again.

Side note: Some of us do have little laptops with MXM. Even me... little P750ZM with a desk 4790K and 980M in a tiny 15-inch package. Smallest high performance laptop I have owned and it is extremely powerful. So, this is very doable. What many consumers do not understand is the driving force behind BGA. The main advantage to BGA for the OEMs is customers cannot fix it or upgrade it easily and affordably. They hope to make more money selling new machines as frequently as some folks buys socks and underwear. If you upgrade it for less than half the cost of a replacement system, they make nothing on repeat sales. It's all about their greediness and being control freaks more than anything else.

 

Riiight. I wont comment on that, but I would on something else - the amount of people asking for possible upgrade where all their hardware is soldered. And people ask why NBR is aggressively geared against BGA - because informative decision, that's why. People have to know what they are buying, if they decide to buy anyway - their call. That's why I'm vocal on BGA, that's why I'm vocal on current Clevos - where's the warranty that they wont switch once again with HBM, because it just happens that HBM is coming right-up next. Almost zero point in removable GPUs (you can still replace defective/burned module, but that's all about it).

As for me - Polaris, please, because FU nGREEDIA. Yeah, I'm that guy.

 

Based on the current snapshot, it looks like our numbers do not jibe with theirs. Maybe they asked the wrong people to get the answer they were looking for. Anyhow, it looks like the 1% refers to those that would prefer to waste money replacing a perfectly good machine with a new one instead of a simple and affordable GPU upgrade. This is encouraging. It shows us that a statistically irrelevant portion of the people answering our poll questions are actually stupid.

 

Sad thing is that majority of the people in the market looking for a $3k laptop dont even know about Clevo DTR's. And then out of the ones that do know about, only 1% care about upgrade ability ? Give me a break, those stats are just a way of lying and getting genuine people like Prema off their tails.

And after all the ******** they just pulled, im glad the more people dont know about these DTR's. I for one am not going to recommend Clevo's. Might as well suggest an ASUS with a soldered on 1060/1070 , which at least looks good. And is disposable in a year or 2.

 

At least Asus will be cheap... and won't lie and super charge for fake upgradeability.

 

Pretty much.

But then again, Clevo never officially said their systems are up-gradable. The ones up to this point just were.

 

I got the 770 because of the 17" screen and best in its weight class. Never had the cash to get sli, even though I know I could punch in that weight class. CPU is easy enough to hang, but I only just started GPU...

Too bad they are killing off what makes these laptops worth it. Hopefully the ship corrects because at this rate it is capsizing. I also find that number dubious because more and more people are willing to open their electronics to work on them and fix them and that number suggests the opposite!

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Oh no... they're not getting off that easy. These are the same people that make Rampage motherboards. They are not stupid, just evil. They are taking advantage of ignorant people by selling them filth on their misinformed assumption that the ASUS brand name is an icon associated with quality. It should be, but their smart customers know better and avoid their BGA CPU and proprietary GPU filth. That should be against the law... that kind of evilness rates right up there with taking advantage of widows and orphans on the slime factor.

 

It's very disgusting what's happening to the computer industry. We have one company controlling GPUs, other controlling CPUs, and OEMs who's only wish is cutting costs and filling their pockets.
I won't hold my breath for AMD either, It's a lost cause brothers. Lost cause indeed. (4870x2 was my last AMD product, it performed great, doubling the E bill and almost setting the house on fire )
I SAY LET IT ROT/RUST.
Desktop is the to go, until they start forcing BGA down our necks, and ditching standard/reference designs and extensions.
My condolences guys, it's an outrage owning an ultra expensive machine that lost it's potential in less than a few months.

 

I agree... they sold like hotcakes right until the very end, never batting an eye about the customers they were screwing or the Clevo/Sager resellers whose livelihoods and reputations they were discounting. To make this right they would need to either recall all P870DM-G or offer free DYI motherboard and heat sink kits to those that want to upgrade to 1080 SLI. This needs to come out of their pockets, not ours. We already emptied our pockets and they took our money. I don't think they need to give away free GPUs, just fix their bad engineering decision and make the wrong things right.

 

I'm not sure about this bro. Dellienware go their own way now as you can see in past. Proprietary Alienware connection allows for more money in the bank to Dell's shareholders.

Edit. DEllienware with Mr. Azor have already said in media that their G/A solution is the best for performance. This Proprietary G A connection will be used in their other products as well!!

 

pass on the toaster box! would love to get the razer core though if it was only 150usd that is!

 

I dunno, I could see some sense in Alienware going the TB3 route to try to undercut other manufacturers' eGPU solutions. Something like "Hey kiddies! Why buy an overpriced Razer Core as the eGPU for your Razer Blade, when you could instead buy our $200 Alienware Thunderbolt 3 Graphics Amplifier FROM THE FUTURE?" Or perhaps Alienware will start offering eGPUs that support a full PCIe x 16 proprietary connection instead, which would truly set them apart from other manufacturer's eGPU solutions (short of MSI's Gaming Dock, which connects via PCIe x 16 but works will all of 3 computers at the moment).

Or maybe they'll just stick with what they have now, just because.

 

Read my edit in previous post.
<Edit. DEllienware with Mr. Azor have already said in media that their G/A solution is the best for performance. This Proprietary G/A connection will be used in their other products as well!!>

 

Well then, never mind. Looks like they already have the eGPU business completely, totally, 100% figured out.

I hope Alienware has in their vision a plan for eventually upgrading their proprietary connector to support full PCIe x 16. If they're truly committed to a proprietary PCIe x 4 connection in the face of TB3... sigh.

 

If it could be modded to TB3 it would be a cheap way to get a foot in the door with eGPUs. But, it's not readily moddable as far as I can tell. I think selling things for twice what smart shoppers would pay is par for the course for Razer. The Razer Core looks like an awesome product, but not $500 worth of awesome. I'd be willing to pay half that amount. I think that would be an appropriate price for it.

And, here is where a machine the caliber of the P870DM-G would continue to shine. I'm sure it would rape all of the pathetic BGA turdbooks that might employ the use of an eGPU as a half-hearted effort to compensate or distract attention away from their glaring inadequacies.

 

Their Proprietary GA will sell like hot cakes. AW15 and smaller model will have maximum a single 1070. If Dell continues with the same motherboard for AW15 and 17. Will all have max 1070

 

This reminds me of one thing,

Asus used to have custom MXM until they just decide bga is less effort. Whats preventing clevo deciding its less effort?

 

This is the sum of all fears for truly discriminating folks that have found refuge in Clevo as the world's last and only real example of high performance notebooks. If they do decide to go that route there is virtually nothing left worth buying. Nothing. Until MSI gets with the program and starts using unlocked socketed desktop CPUs in their top models they will never position themselves to be taken seriously by serious enthusiasts. (I had to add that last part because I'm sure someone with very good intentions that simply doesn't know any better would try to help by jumping in and suggest the MSI brand as an alternative.)

 

Absolutely nothing. There will have to be yet another redesign for Volta and I'm not sure Clevo has the sales money to float the R&D for these custom machines. Clevo definitely takes a profit hit compared to the likes of MSI and ASUS.

 

Let's make their pocketbook hurt! Hopefully it will wake them up by Christmas and they won't have a choice but to make a p570wm replacement next year with skylake-x, released a year from now (and they learn to provide support for it years into the future)!!!

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250 usd is still not reasonable imo. Why? because 250usd for the box + 650usd for a 1080(cheapest one in amazon is the zotac amp) =900 usd. We could have gotten a mobile 1080 for 1-1.2k usd and sell our 980m/d for maybe 500-600 and 800-1k usd respectively and just lose a little bit of money but if we opt for the box we would have to spend more not to mention be strapped/tied down and lose portability which to me is the essence of what a laptop is and if we decide to tie it with an egpu it makes no sense to keep my machine... Still trying to make sense of it all but i feel like we all have been ripped off esp those who purchased the 870dm. We all purchased machines that were socketed for exactly this purpose(not having to worry about not being able to upgrade later on when new tech emerges). I hate saying it but i wish i kept my aw15 r1( i know it was a POS and cpu throttled non stop) but i would have not lost this amount of money if i kept it and sold it today and purchased the batman 3.0 or 870dm2 tomorrow.

 

The idea of an eGPU has always been unattractive to me as anything other than a geeky frankentoy. Now, for that purpose (geekness) I have to admit that it does intrigue me a little bit. Who doesn't enjoy a freak show now and then, right? But, using an eGPU has never been something I have taken seriously because it represents compromise. I hate compromises of any kind. Compromise always sucks. I probably will not entertain the idea any further unless I cannot sell my P870DM-G for an acceptable price. The eGPU would then be a project of last resort. I'm not willing to take a loss on the sale. If it can sell it and get what I want for it, the money will most likely go into a desktop build and I will be done with notebooks. I'm tired of getting screwed. I left Alienware behind for that reason and I'm pretty put off by Clevo for putting me in an unfavorable position.

There are simply too many negative implications to every available option right now to make a truly rational decision about the next step. I hate being tethered to a desk as well, which is a given with either an eGPU or a desktop beast. So, right now I am just mad and shouldn't say exactly what I am going to do because I don't know for sure. The only thing I really do know for sure is that I will not accept BGA CPU or GPU now or later in something categorized as a gaming or high performance notebook. I won't have any part of that kind of feces. I also doubt that I would be willing to settle for having just one 1080 in my P870DM-G. So, for now it's time to chill, see what happens, and then make a strategic decision about what kind of future I am going to accept for myself.

 

The P570WM was discontinued because it didn't sell well. Clevo couldn't justify the R&D for a new model. By far their biggest sales are the 15 inch and under so it's very well possible that they could pull the plug on the P7 and P8 series next time around and go to mobile chips and BGA throughout. It would definitely be cheaper for them and they could still keep the cooling up which would still put them ahead of the competition. Since Alienware has dropped out of the race and MSI is only playing with desktop CPUs in their Whitebook barebones kits, Clevo would still make their money. They could even go BGA for the GPU and still stuff a desktop chip in there and they would still sell.

 

I think you are right. We should probably just hold off a bit and wait for everything to normalize. Screwed. Ripped off. Robbed. Thats what happened to us.

 

If they do that there is no reason for Clevo to exist. The only value they bring (from my perspective) is the fact that they are the only acceptable (non-BGA) alternative that is left in the world of notebooks. Remove that advantage and Clevo instantly becomes an irrelevant brand. If I were going to stoop to the level of buying a BGA turdbook, which is absolutely out of the question, it would not be a Clevo turdbook because there are better options available for compromisers.

 

I pray they don't, but don't think they'll return to the standard mxm card. The chip with hbm2 on an amd die interrupted screw placement if thrown on an mxm board. There is no reason to expect less from an Nvidia die. As such, they knew a change was coming...

So it is difficult to think of what to do if they go bga, as they are my go to laptop maker and I accept nothing less than 17". I wish I knew how well the p870dm sold for them, which I believe the dm2/3 may perform less because of the change and enthusiasts being mad at the industry overall...

If they go bga, I wouldn't buy one until I could afford a used motherboard component machine, which is $2500 to over $10,000, meaning being forced back into a desktop instead of one device for my needs...

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They will go back only if their quarterly took a hit from it. I have decided unless I see HEDT and NViDIA's big die chip going into laptop, I dont think I am moving away from a primary desktop. I do not need SLI, but I do want a big die GPU and a 8 core on a laptop, which I know its pretty much impossible.

@Mr. Fox Good luck on desktop if you are going to do that.

I am guessing you will be going with either an open air testbench or a full waterloop in a good chassis?

 

I will go this way http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/ld-pc-v10-115v-usa/87-ld-pc-v10-115v-usa-phase-change.html

http://www.tek.no/artikler/her-er-norges-raeste-spilldatamaskin/167852/alle Use translate

 

The EU seems to have more phase cooling available than the US. I just find fewer shops selling it here. How many stages is that machine? Single?

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True that. We took it for given, because of everyone else letting us down. This is why we are frustrated, we are left with literary no options. Clevo was the last one standing and now it seems fallen as well. Alienware got its fair share of the $h!t storm as well. MSi would have a special place in hell as well, just a couple of months more till we know for certain whether or not they'll keep their written promise for upgrades. That would be entertaining. People are just mad at Clevo, but in MSi's case, things would be MUCH more serious. There are people who bought their products knowing that the CPU is soldered, but that the GPU would be upgraded. These same people could've bought Clevo instead (not that it matters obviously, but no one knew how things would turn back then). So if you think that people are mad at Clevo, just sit and watch what would happen to MSi if they fail to deliver

Same here. Just a fun project. I had this plan to wire 3 PCIe lanes through the docking port (there are some unused pins) and the 4th to be the ExpressCard and gut the docking station (that ODD/UpgradeBay is useless since the SATA lane is used for one of my internal mSATAs) and then stuff an R9 Nano in there. Seeing where things are going, I'll just build a desktop. It would've been an awesome project though.

Have I missed something? Where are these?

There's ZERO point to buy a desktop replacement if it's NOT a desktop replacement. The whole point around these machines was that it really replaced the desktops, not just because the sheer power, but easy part swap and upgrade and I think that the later had more weight.

 

The reason they might is they can combine the mainstream and enthusiast lineup. Starting with skylake x, there will be a quad core variant on the same socket. I believe they also plan to add quad core Xeon on that same lineup. As such, so long as you design the cooling correctly, you could transition the sockets upward to the enthusiast line while turning the smaller to bga, thereby having the cost of only one socket to support...

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What I was getting at is going deeper down the rabbit hole on hardware mods, both on desktop and mobile lines. The easiest way to accomplish that is hardware allowing for the easiest removal and installation of components from the pcb, not doing each by hand. It is about $20k to buy the machines new, so I'd look at properly working decommissioned machines sold from retooling, upgrading, etc...

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Eurocom do...

 

Single. With Internal Liquid Cooling System. And a pretty nice cabinet Why a cabinet like this? An ordinary one with only water cooling will not be good enough for what I want. Either a monsterBook or a nice desktop.

 

Hmm, didnt know about that. Never really checked out their website properly after looking at the prices.

 

I'm sure that a caselabs magnum base could potentially hold it... But I'd have to check. That is a nice case, though!

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Yes, open air test bench with phase change cooling is my first choice. Something like what @Papusan just posted is an option to open air test bench that I would be interested in. I'd prefer to have no cabinet at all, but if I have to a cavernous one with tons of space and a behemoth profile that has to be rolled around on casters would be ideal.

 

How cavernous? Like the double wide here?
http://www.caselabs-store.com/the-magnum-double-wide-case-line/

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Only the phase cooler cost $ 1,214.29 tax incl. Then I might as well buy the entire cabinet for $ 1554.88
http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/ld-pc-v2-115v-usa/192-ld-pc-v2-115v-phase-change-black-xl-suction.html
Both are on their wish list. Regardless. A new rig will quickly cost $ 8-10000
Desktop is not always cheaper than a monster book, LOL

Edit. @Mr. Fox Use translate. Maybe similar like this, but with newer hardware http://www.tek.no/artikler/dette-var-arets-raeste-pc-pa-the-gathering/345834

 

Especially picking a chip that is binned well for how cold. Btw, what temps does a single phase like that provide (which refrigerant)? About -50C (which most can do) or colder?

Edit: that build has 300W at -30C

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I'm guessing around there. Ambient temp and max wattage might decide. It's perfectly possible to build one yourself, but perhaps not as well done There may be others who might cools better. One should investigate a little before you acquire one. The price don't be under this anyway. But the overall result is determined by how lucky you are with the chips

 

My uncle does plumbing but has his hvec certification and has worked on cooling systems in the past. If I don't find what I like, I'll turn it into a project with him (as he's also licensed for handling the different refrigerant needed of I decide a multi stage phase cooler).

But, I found lower on the page it is rated for a 300W heat loss at -30C, of course ambient could cause variance, but a good reference for its capabilities.

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They also have phase coolers on hwbot.org's marketplace every once in awhile. Saw either a 3 or 5 stage on there awhile back...

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Possible the result will be better in a garage in the winter Anyway a much better option than a plain water cooling... The compressor can be switched to a better, if you have access to one. The whole phase cooler with the cabinet and everything is more difficult to create. + The finished result must been properly done (on the eye) Look pretty.

 

I bet. I've only started looking at designs and refrigerants used (started by looking at custom water loops, then realized doing more exotic cooling doesn't cost much more). When I get around to my build, I may have questions for you as it would be my first foray with sub zero...

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