Pascal MXM GPU Upgrades

I've forgotten most of it, LOL
I used such phase cooler like the review for 10-12 years ago. Had two pieces a while. But as I said. All forgotten now There were some problems with these from asetek, as I recall. But the quality has certainly improved after 12 years i think.
Another option for me is not applicable. Either phase cooling or nothing. Water cooling I've had before, so this is not interesting anymore.
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asetek_vapochill_ls_review_(sub_zero_cooling),1.html

 

Yes, if I were to go with a case I would want it to be something massive like that. A warehouse versus a tool shed. However, my first preference would be...

...an open air bench like this with phase cooling for CPU.

 

I warned everyone when the 980 desktop came that the transition to desktop cards was going to happen.

As for the MSI Whitebook, http://m.ebay.com/itm/MSI-Gaming-La...Nvidia-GTX-980M-8GB-GDDR5-GSYNC-/222102492708

http://www.xoticpc.com/force-msi-16l1-11-009.html

http://laptopparts4less.frl/N17E-G2...-SYNC-laptop-zelf-samenstellen-build-to-order

They're not terribly easy to find and they're subject to the MSI tax but they're out there.

 

Do they have a 17" version?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Unfortunately no. It's the 15 inch only. I ran a full config on Xotic just now and it's actually not subject to the MSI tax... 2660 with 6700K, 2x512GB NVMe 950 Pro, 1TB HDD, 32GB DDR4-2133, Intel 7265. If the eBay listing is correct, it can handle a 1070 (N17E-G2) but good luck getting your hands on one.

 

Good price, but I hate 15" displays!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Yeah and MSI is being pretty quiet about its existence. I happened to stumble on it by accident.

 

Well, with only two heat pipes directly contracting the cpu, one running the edge and screwed down over the three on the gpu, I question the cooling capacity, although those fans probably push more than Clevo's design. Also, it could cannibalize their flagship bga crap!

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

Well the specs wouldn't allow a 95W 6700K if it couldn't cool it decently but I have my questions about it as well. Putting a 6700K and a 1070 in there would definitely be a struggle though. Although MSI tends to have flat heatsinks compared to Clevo especially so who knows.

 

Eurocom has the MSI barebones but Instead of the MSI tax we have Eurocom's , with 1070 card it starts at $1666 - Eurocom Tornado F5.

Honestly, this thing is out of control, these greedy coprorates want to extort their consumers who are ignorant about the socketed hardware in mobiles, Sockets existed since the gaming laptops came with the Alienware when they had Clevo as their partner, now that maxwell 980N changed everything, Clevo just took the huge P7 series base for granted and pushed this new form factor while Ngreedia killed the MXM 3.0b size, MSI 1070 is really designed on that purpose not to allow the older machines to be upgrdeable. Intel on the other hand is just pure evil, dropping of the MX and XM series chips replacing with lowest retarded junk silicon infestation with the BGA filth for super profit maximization. Dang ! AMD is just sad, Wish Samsung take over them and give a round of spank to Intel.

I don't think this would make some radical changes but I atleast expect them to have this read and know people who think really do exist in the Notebook scene also and just deliver something worth for us, this is on the bright side, but yeah I don't even think this side exists anymore in this 2016, just a ray of hope.

I never thought Clevo would do this to the P7 and P8 machines....First Alienware now this ? Inexcusable & very sad, ASUS is just a stupid corp wannabe in the NB realm, have you read that new GL502Vs review ? the chassis has the flexing issues..

 

Str

Strix has permanent optimus

 

Yeah, it's pretty sad. Almost no good news anywhere for notebook enthusiasts. Everyone is getting screwed whether they are aware of it or not. ASUS laptops have always been kind of the butt-scrapers of the Steam punk world. ASUS make some really great desktop enthusiast stuff, but I've never had an ounce of respect for their notebook filth.

 

Hmm... AMD is a joke. I'm not sure why we have a new question about Polaris in a Pascal poll. I would be looking to upgrade my P870DM-G, not downgrade it. Leaving laptops and going back to desktops is a far better option than accepting anemic trash from AMD. I think adding that question to the poll is a serious mistake. It gives Clevo some wiggle room and they don't deserve that. Unless or until AMD releases a 1080 SLI killer that overclocks better, they have no horse in this race. They are losers.

 

AMD's polaris have the same performance per watt as maxwell.....

There is very few points good about it.

 

Yup, 100%... AMD ( Always Manage to Disappoint) seems to always be a day late and a dollar short. For anyone that has a P870DM-G with 980M SLI or a 200W GTX 980 AMD's best for 2016 is a downgrade. They are entering the game with 2014-era performance grade. If their Polaris GPUs don't overclock well, then they don't even qualify at 2014 performance levels.

I sincerely want them to do better, but I am not willing to support their incompetence with my wallet. If they actually do great things the money will follow naturally and automatically. They will still need to deal with skepticism due to their poor track record.

 

Oh, you don't know? If you pull all power & heat limits from a *STOCK* RX 480 and run Witcher 3 at 1440p, it'll hit about 192W.

And it doesn't even match a 980, which pulls less power, in almost all cases. Polaris is not maxwell-level efficiency yet.

And overclocking... lol. No. It isn't going to overclock. Not only would you need an 8-pin connector JUST to run stock boost frequencies properly, but overclocking exponentially sucks more power from the system. A 5% overclock with unlocked power limits would easily crack a single 8-pin's allotted, unmodified, power delivery level. Don't expect anything.

Unless Vega isn't GCN, they've just given up the entire race. GCN is not working, I don't care how much they refine it. And waiting for 2017's Navi to show up is just taking too bloody long. It may have been accidental, but nVidia launching the Titan X Pascal just basically sealed AMD's entire chances of having top-level performance this year, unless Vega is some entirely other architecture, in which case they should have used it cut down for Polaris.

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That being said, I did vote in the poll, however I chose "other" and "going to desktops". I cannot choose "I would take a pascal upgrade" because my laptop is not designed to cool Pascal and it would overheat and die. I also left a comment too.

 

All excellent reasons having it as a question in the poll doesn't make any sense.

 

I didn't know what you were talking about until I went to the Poll to check on current results, and saw the added AMD question.

It's a 0% chance of AMD putting out an MXM card of any interest for a P870DM series laptop.

Can someone please remove it? @Prema

Is someone posting daily results somewhere?

It's nice to make the results available to people that don't know about the URL / poll yet, a daily refresher in a couple of places would be nice, we might snag a few more votes

 

Either manufacturers stick to a unified, rigid MXM structure free of royalties, or I will be switching to desktops very soon. I'm done with custom PCBs and nVidia BSing TDP of their cards.

 

AMD has an MXM card coming...it may not be the first choice for a P870DM3 user, but it could be an alternative upgrade option for user that can't use NVIDIA's new cards due to compatibility issues.

 

Go on....i'm all ears. I have been waiting since 8970M days for such an announcement

 

If it's not better than what we already have available with the best Maxwell had to offer then it's not going to be a viable solution under any circumstance.

But, I'm certainly open to listening and having all of the cards on the table before I sign their death certificate. The eject button is still within reach if I need to use it.

 

Yeah. I could see little point to any AMD MXM cards in current-gen systems. They'd have to be competing with single-GPU last-gen systems for the most part.

On THAT note however...

This might work. It would have to beat a 980M rather heavily, though. Which I am skeptical about. I've got a huge collection of text somewhere about it considering what the current Polaris cards have shown. I still don't know how it's going to compete with 980Ms, though.

 

Tell us more

 

For once, I'm placing principle over performance here. I loathe and detest nvidia for the crap they give us repeatedly, and I would be happy with a 980M AMD equivalent if it means I can dump nGreedia's cards. I do not want to support such an unethical company.

 

Single GPU, hefty cooling system laptop, no overclocking desired? Sure.

Multi-GPU? Overclocking? Not-the-best cooling (like a MSI GT60)? Waste of cash.

I see you're lined up with Alienwares, though, but the SLI models...

 

Me neither. NVIDIA sucks. But, it's a catch 22 and I'm not willing to accept less performance from AMD. At least not yet. I had to employ an exit strategy on Alienware, and I think I am about to do the same thing for laptops in general. I am not willing to compromise on anything. I have no incentive to compromise. I'm going back to desktops. I hope there is a mass exodus from this niche and I hope it completely obliterates the industry. It's time for it to take a bullet to the skull. There is no future in notebooks because the architects are imbeciles. Desktops may ultimately perish with the same fate, but it will probably take a little longer for the cancer to metastasize in the desktop realm.

 

I really do think our entire class is headed to desktops, the high end enthusiast laptop selection has more or less, disappeared. There is no appeal in buying a 1-turn computer and shelling out for a new one year after year to keep a performance crown. Take me back to 2011 man.....

Sorry mate, this went over my head for some reason and I can't pan out what you're trying to say here. Please explain this to me, I'm slightly puzzled.

 

Buying MXM AMD:
- Single GPU setup? Sure.
- Well-cooled laptop? Sure.
- No desire for overclocking? Sure.

On the other hand:
- Multi-GPU setup? Waste of money. Sub-30% of new games will use crossfire and no nVidia Profile Inspector to force profiles and manage bits. Also refuses to work unless game is in true fullscreen.
- Want to overclock? Waste of money. Getting the card from a 192W power draw state at stock in its desktop form down to 110W *IS* a performance cut AND undervolting all around. Re-increasing its performance will obliterate your power draw. 150W *CANNOT* provide enough power to the desktop card, even undervolted. If you expect inbetween 970 and 980 performance, it'll need 150W+ easily. 330W power brick required on any single-GPU system, SLI requires dual PSU for that kind of strength.
- It's still GCN, if you're planning on using it in a laptop with suboptimal cooling (like a P170EM without modifications, or a MSI GT60) then expect it to overheat for the most part. Pascal *IS* hotter, but the last few gens have held 780Ms and the cooler 980Ms in general. You'd need a system that could keep a 780M well cooled, even with a slight OC, to hold one of those cards easily.

The reason I pointed out your SLI alienwares is that to grab MXM AMD cards for them, you'd effectively be cutting out one GPU slot. In fact, on the AW18, if you even touch them above stock, the machine will probably run out of power, especially since I see you keep it overclocked, and that system cannot use a dual-PSU configuration.

 

I've owned the 7970M, R9 M290X/8970M, 780M, and 980M. Lets set some things straight:

1. The 7970M/8970M ALWAYS ran cooler than the 780M and 980M in the M18x and Alienware 18. The M15x guys will also chime in and confirm this, since they have tried a variety of cards including the 780M and 980M, found it too hot and power hungry to operate. Why is the 7970M/8970M different? Because it was strictly a 100W TDP card if you disabled powertune or locked voltage to 1.050V (default). 780M pulled north of 120W and the 980M an obscene 135-140W on boost clock, stock vBIOS. 780M ran in the mid 70s (before undervolt), 980M (before undervolt) in the low-mid 80s, whereas 7970M/8970M always below 70 C on full load (before undervolt). This is using the same pads and paste. It was only with undervolts did I get the temperatures and power back under control, otherwise I'm sure the 980M would have fried itself in the M18x R2 like it did in the Alienware 18, which is currently out of commission thanks to continuously running above 80 degrees no matter what I did to it (no undervolt vbios available for Alienware 18)

2. Overclocking is a complete crapshoot. I've had poor 7970Ms and great 7970Ms, as well as poor 780Ms and great 780Ms. Silicon lottery here. From experience, the nvidia cards tend to be better overclockers, but late fabrication 7970M and later 8970M overclocked by an extra 150mhz with no voltage increase. That's far from being poor, in my opinion. I never bothered to add voltage, because I"m not a fan of overvolting any component.

GCN is a tired architecture, we are all aware of that, but if it competes at the proper price point, it is still attractive. Give me a 400$ AMD MXM equivalent of the 980M and many on this board would go for it. There are those that like to multitask as well, such as myself. I always keep 1 radeon card around for rendering, because nGreedia neutered the GTX series for no reason other than to sell quadros.

As for multi gpu, we are in agreement here. I actually ripped one of the 980M from my Alienware 18 and put it in the M18x R2 because nothing is utilizing SLI anymore, and it causes more headaches than usefulness when playing games. SLI is really for benchers these days and nothing else.

AMD cards have a place in the mobile space, just not at the top of the food chain. It seems all these manufacturers are other competitng for enthusiast marketshare or nvidia is bribing them to use all of the nvidia range, which isn't really out of the realm of possibility considering Intel did the same thing with the processor components.

 

Right on... you make some valid points, but...

Spoiler: ...at the end of the day...

 

I really wish I had enough money to adopt this mentality. Too bad I'm a poor college student

 

Your solution is truly a simple one. Don't upgrade. And, thanks to NVIDIA you can't even if you want to using the machines you already have. There is nothing to upgrade to. So, do nothing. Just say "NO" to the filth. When things change for you financially, and they will (been there, done that) build yourself a monster desktop and spend $150 on a Chromebook. You can just about buy two 1080 superclocked desktop GPUs for a price similar to what one just one goofy 1080 MXM-ish morphodite GPU is expected to cost.

I don't want to see it end this way. I'd love to see the high performance notebook craze continue indefinitely. But the people selling them are brain-dead muppets that are counting on us to drink their wee-wee tainted Kool-Aid. I'm not going to provide financial support for proprietary garbage or tolerate upgrade interference of any kind. This should be the straw that breaks the back on all of our camels. They need to start hemorrhaging money. Let their crap rot on warehouse shelves. We all need to vote with our wallets and make it harder than ever for the high performance notebook OEMs to keep the lights on and the paychecks flowing.

 

Which is exactly what I intend to do. As I've said before, I'm not buying any new laptops. I'm rocking these legacy machines till the day they drop or can no longer function reasonably. I'm not giving money to companies that masquerade BGA systems as high performance. There will probably be a desktop in my future. Cheaper and no stupid crap like this to deal with, but I will really miss portable power.

 

Yes. But that was Pitcairn. I've never seen much issue with Pitcairn and heat really. But yes, I'll take your word for this on their heat.

However, there's no way a 980M would be pulling 140W at stock boost clocks. That has to be a from-the-wall calculation. If it was pulling a 140W boost clock playing games, then SLI 980Ms + any overclocked mobile CPU (as many have run them here already) would have well exceeded a 330W brick, and everyone would be instantly dead in the water. 270W-280W for the GPUs and 50-60W for the CPU in any halfway recent title would more than break a 330W brick.

Mature-silicon 7970Ms hitting 150MHz to match their desktop counterparts, I get. However Hawaii, Fiji, Tonga and Polaris can barely hit a 5% overclock on desktop cards most people say. I've got a friend who has overclocked his R9 290 Vapor-X by a full 75MHz with voltage control, and considers that "high" for those cards. Downclocked mobile cards can of course upclock a bit, because their silicon limit is usually higher. HOWEVER. This isn't the point in this instance. The point in this instance is that the RX M480 would not be able to shrink down to a 110W envelope and even fight with a 980M as far as I can see. Undervolting would help, but it MUST need a power cut. And clocking it back up to the desktop clocks or near to the desktop clocks (to compete with the 1060) will cause it to drink north of 150W easily. Even undervolted. You'd have to hit a 980M rather hard to make it actually pull north of 150W in terms of OCing, though I DO know that they lose efficiency fast when overclocked.

If there is a $400 RX M480 and it competes with the 980M and can be used in previous boards, then single GPU users *NOT* already using the 980M and not wanting to overclock heavily will have an upgrade on their hands. I WILL agree with you there. But it isn't going to compete with the 1060.

As for the AMD not having a place at the top of the food chain, that's kind of the issue I pointed out before. AMD is aiming for a desktop segment that nVidia has been ignoring with Pascal, and they're at best going to be able to compete with last generation hardware if they drop Polaris cards on us. And this is the problem.... last gen people already have last gen stuff, generally. You might be more than happy to toss a 980M on ebay and grab a $400 RX M480... but how many other people are going to do that? You are instantly consigning yourself to garbage performance in OpenGL games and any game you might ever want to play on Linux, and to a card with a driver series that has SERIOUS CPU overhead in DX11 games. The only reason DX12 and Vulkan give AMD cards such a "boost" is purely because the API kills the DX11 driver overhead that's in place... the reason nVidia performs on par or worse in DX12/Vulkan is because devs aren't coding in optimizations and are simply using the API to kill CPU usage... which means that actual performance optimizations are still driver-side... which meant that the previously immature DX12/Vulkan drivers could not compete with the mature, overhead-less DX11 drivers. So unless someone was at a CPU bottleneck, DX12/Vulkan was a worse experience for them. And instead of working on killing that DX11 overhead for their drivers, AMD is insistent on pushing that DX12/Vulkan performance is amazing for their cards, and how they're future proof. It's not the way to go. They're wasting their cards' current potentials.

 

I was spitballing slightly here, but I know that the voltage varies depending on ASIC quality. I know some Alienware users running 980M at 1.075V pulls about 140-150W, so I assume stock boost clock voltage (1.05-1.067) would pull about 130-135W, more than the 120-125W of the 780M for sure.

 

@iunlock 980M on AW17R3 pulls 100w max on hwinfo/hwmonitor reading

also, the 97/80M on the AW15/7R3 mobo has the full 6-phase vrm mosfet

 

Lol, 100w from 980M?
Mine (P870DM) pulls 130w-135w on stock bios without OC...
On prema vBIOS it pulled 165w.

AW is really a cripple...

 

Meh that Clevo politics tho... I hope I sell mine soon and get cheaper P775DM3 4K G-Sync (or MSI 4K G-Sync if there will be such - at least I will be able to sue them if they would promise me upgrade and later say big nope)... Loss will be huge for me (1month payment) but I have no choice...
Pretty hard kick in a butt from Clevo. ;x

 

I remember when people were freaking out because desktop motherboard makers started putting things like serial and parallel ports on the motherboard. OMG! Of course those are not GPUs.

Sent from my overpriced Galaxy S6 Edge +

 

AWWWWW YEAAAAAAH Too bad there wasn't a Polaris option in the poll and I voted "If Notebook GPUs stop being upgrade-able I'll probably switch to Desktops instead!". Anyway, you can bet that my vote is for Polaris!

I'm sorry, but I think that nGREEDIA and its partners are the better example for catch 22 - you get them, because there's "not other option", but the taste is bitter-sweet, and it's more bitter than sweet. You know what happened past year and a half, I think I don't need to elaborate. No one gave AMD the chance, like they are giving to nGREEDIA. Now, performance gap is pretty wide for most to be willing to fix it. Anyway, my vote is for fixing things. You can thank me later.

 

AMD will get a chance if and when they put forth enough effort. If they don't, they won't. I want results, no pie in the sky and good intentions. That simple. I'm not bankrolling incompetence and paying for lame hardware trash, nor am I placing any confidence in them because their history with me as a customer tells me I would be a complete fool for doing so. Literally everything I have owned made by AMD has been pure trash... everything. The last good products I owned from team red ( ATI not AMD) were 4870M and 5870M. Some of today's BGA brats were probably barely out of their diapers back then.

We both sincerely want to see AMD be successful and bring NVIDIA down off their Hitler high-horse. I don't care about brand names and I am not loyal to a brand. Screw that crap... but, I have almost no confidence in their ability to be successful. I'm not using my money for gambling. If they pull it off they will get all my money because I hate NVIDIA. But, based on results NVIDIA still gets my money until AMD delivers. I'm waiting, and I have been waiting. So far, I got nothing. Just an annual demonstration of failure and lameness from the red team.

 

It's a question I've been asking a lot lately - define trying/effort/compete? I want to see them flying high probably more than most, but without sales and market share, how much they can realistically do? Yeah they probably can avoid some screw-ups, but I guess it's part of game called life. I see a handful of screw-ups on the other front as well. We have turned into beta testers (not limited to electronics, but that's another story), the thing is why nGREEDIA gets away with it, while AMD is constantly pointed at?

Tell me which of the last 680m, 780m, 880m and 980m was a really rock solid product? I can nit-pick about every single one of them.

You think that I love to write essays like these (even though it might look like it )(it was supposed to be an essay, but I've deleted some of the things)? Hell NO. It's GPUs, you are supposed to go ahead and grab the best bang for the buck or the absolute-top-of-the-line, or a few of the last. In the end of the day I don't want to be brand loyal either and if it was cars, I can enjoy most of them and I don't give a damn if it's FF, FR, MR, AWD, 4WD or Ford (pulling a leg ) or whatever. All of them can be enjoyed. The thing is we are talking GPUs and I can't enjoy nGREEDIA GPU at the current state of things. The whole process is not fun anymore, and I just want to have fun and enjoy one of my hobbies without sweating too much. You know I was about to get 780m and pCARS when the news about GameSux broke. Well, I just got Assetto Corsa and I'm waiting to see in what form Polaris would materialize. Oh and as an added bonus Porsche FINALLY (!!!!!!) broke the EA chains and make a guess where it would make an appearance

 

I'm just sick of getting garbage from every direction. We're not even treated as well as beta testers by these monkeys. They feed us feces and expect us to be happy about it. (Sadly, some folks are not smart enough to be mad about it and don't even realize we're all getting shafted.) BGA garbage, crippled firmware, proprietary trash, bugged software... worst version of Windows ever now... you name it... we are buried in filth up to our necks. I'm fed up with this.

 

Like most of us... :/
Personally I've lost hope and I'm damn angry on both Clevo & nGreedia... I hate that GTX Drivers... I NEVER had any problems with AMD Catalyst/drivers... Last 10 years I had AMD desktop GPUs (in both single and CF configs)... But nGreedia... Quadro Mobile = Problems, GTX 980M = problems, Drivers than weakens GPU performance = what the HELL...

 

It's a demoralizing set of events. In one foul swoop, all excitement for a modular future with a company that knew what enthusiasts are after ... gone.

Seen how many disposable welded shut heaps of sh#t are selling now?! No choice. Overpriced. All BGA disposable and 1 MXM masquerading as upgradable.

Seen how jolly some of these commie school-boys are getting over this too? Lol, cutting their nose to spite their face, yet to thick to realize it.

 

True, but AMD would put out drivers *very* infrequently, which in itself was an annoyance. I've been off AMD for a few years now, so not sure if that is still the case, but several years ago it was.

 

Maybe yes, but I never wanted them ASAP since there was no need (new games we're working). Not like with nVidia... Game release... Ultimate FPS drops, unplayable freezes, crashes, texture fails (etc) until new drivers...

 

If amd make mxm card that's compatible with bios and lvds and price it at 650 with performance between 1070 and 1080 (mxm pascal1080 = 1200) would you buy it?

 

He wont, but im sure a lot of other people will.