Ryzen vs Intel

Well me neither if I was exposed to the elements, the sun is the only thing I am shielded from though haha

But it does tend to color my perceptions and I am usually good about filtering that out but the past few weeks have been quite trying, so I apologize on those fronts.

 

Someone needs to tell the utoober that he missed the most important testing of a notebook computer; performance on battery power.

But then AMD already lost to Intel while plugged in...

We can't show the destruction of AMD that badly, that would be telling the... Truth. Lol...

 

Yeah I wrote off Linus for laptops a long time ago, laptops take too much time to properly do on his schedule.

 

At least he was able to show of AMD as the worst omen for gamers Not that the Intel Joke was so much better.

 

Intel CPUs throttle under those same scenarios on battery, CPU, GPU, RAM, WIFI and so on. Like i said you're not going to get the full potential of any laptop on battery. This is why i care about real world performance more than benchmarks because it doesnt tell the full story

Intel CPUs always had the advantage when its come to games and its been proven.

Intel's Tiger Lake was their answer to AMD's Ryzen 5000 series and competition is always good and it showed that Intel needed to step their game up has they gotten lazy for years. Also having thunderbolt 4 is another plus and its gonna hurt AMD in the future if dont they figure out a way to counter that.

Also AMD CPU's has another problem is that they're paired up with cheap RAM causing bad peformance and not sure it affects Intel's Tiger Lake CPU's or not. I heard rumors it does.

 

USB 4 support is slated to arrive with Ryzen mobile 6000 in early 2022 if Linus is to be believed, so not much longer of a wait.

That's an OEM/supplier issue, not a problem with AMD specifically. It's not the end of the world on laptops where you can replace both sticks yourself, but I fear to think what may happen with Asus and other laptops that have partially or fully soldered RAM modules. So far it hasn't been a problem, but I wouldn't put it past any of these companies to sneakily make such a change without altering model numbers or otherwise informing consumers.

 

Thats where you are wrong, intel thermal throttles the CPU after a certain temp threshold is reached. My dell does not throttle is ram, ssd etc as soon as it's unplugged. I am not talking about thermal throttling. You are.

 

I didnt mention thermal throttling whatsoever im talking about power throttling and any system will throttle anyways because your CPU, GPU, WIFI and other components will revert to power saving settings when running on battery to conserve battery and this is a feature on all current laptops, Most of them you can disable within Windows and even if you set it on Maximum performance on battery your CPU would still throttle hence why you've lower performance on battery and that a feature on most current Intel and AMD laptops and laptop batteries have less voltage.

That good to hear but it might be a bit too late but we'll see

Yeah it wouldn't surprise me because a lot of OEM made cutbacks on components because of COVID. Sadly the customer usually get screwed...

 

Then you didn't read the article where is says implicitly that intel devices DO NOT do this. They thermal throttle, however, they do not "power throttle" as AMD systems do. Also, you cannot override this with the AMD systems either. Again, read the entire article.

 

This will depends on the laptop and what HW it contain.

Of course a Cpu that is able to puke out above 100W heat and 200w graphics will throttle down the Cpu speed or/and Gpu boost to not kill/burn up the battery.

 

Yeah the amperage requirements would be a bit high on that lol

@KING19

I havent owned a performance oriented laptop in the 14" range and my P750FM is not a mobile gamer by design so my experience is nil.

Even with that said the issue here is AMD is reducing performance regardless of power plan, thermals or any conditions that can be set by the user save for maybe one unconfirmed comment on windows central which is likely to never be since the user "doesnt care". Im not sure if I would say AMD is a criminal enterprise because of that as its not an Intel product and shouldnt be evaluated as such. However they know what market they are trying to enter and whom its currently dominated by, which comes with its own expectations. If this was a DTR laptop I'd chuckle and go about my business, but its all BGA and in a 14" package which does emphasis mobility.

Perhaps you can do some digging on your own system and see if you can alter that behavior from a Windows or Linux front. Pretty interested actually.

Not all laptops default to power saving in Windows when on battery, nor does all power saving plans behave the same way on all laptops. Some might have more aggressive settings while others do not since it can afford to do so without compromising user-experience.

 

I read the article, and yes Intel processors power throttle as well, It doesnt make one better than the other especially on battery and tbh its a very dumb argument. I used Intel Laptops for years and they done the same thing but was the performance sluggish? Answer = No and same goes with my current AMD system and also in the article he mentioned his AMD system didnt feel sluggish at all, benchmarks doesnt tell the full story especially on battery.

Agreed. it would need to have the exact same HW to have a fair comparsion

 

You may have read the articles, but you're not very good at comprehending them.

AMD systems take 10 seconds before they spool up to their top clocks, Intel does so instantly. Everyone notices that that isn't an AMD fanboi.

Also when on battery power, AMD systems (well, that one in particular - I might test Ryzen 6000 systems if I read anything great about them then...) are clock limited to 2GHz. That too is noticeable and nothing like what Intel does.

And Intel does all that and has better performance for it and still comparable battery life.

You keep telling yourself that Intel does the same thing that has been pointed out to you over and over (and you keep ignoring the main point), but your Ryzen powered L5 is not operating like 99% of the systems out there (on battery power).

A snappy computer is my first criterion of upgrading a system that I will use day in and day out. A server that is forgotten in a backroom is okay to feel sluggish (even though it sounds like you don't see sluggish when it hits you over the head).

 

Then how come i dont experience that? explain that to me?

I did some quick tests on battery on best performance mode and when i booted up Microsoft office and some lighter programs my CPU's stock speed reaches near base clock speeds at 2.8Ghz on battery and then i ran 3dmark and cinebench and my CPU turboboost close to the turboboost CPU limit at 4.2GHz. I'll run some more tests when i have more time if you want. My L5 only has a 60Wh battery so i dont expect it to be at the same performance when its plugged in and no laptop will because laptop batteries lack the power and voltage to do so.

Keep telling yourself that Intel CPU's dont do the same thing on battery. Like i said earlier its a feature on modern CPUs in order to conserve battery this includes other hardware components as well, plus Windows uses a lot power saving settings on battery as well plus OEM's too.

I can try to run some more tests when i have some more time, But i dont expect much of it.

 

I don't need to keep telling myself that intel based systems don't do it because I only need to look at the actual tests and numbers to prove that I am right and you are wrong. You still are confused.

A little snippet from Dan regarding INTEL on AC/DC power.

"Daniel Rubino


Sorry, but a few things here as this is not correct:

1. You may confusing thermal throttling - the temperature of the device gets too hot and the CPU slows down with the issue we are discussing here. Those are separate things. All devices thermal throttle, whether AMD or Intel.
   
   
2. We're also talking about how on AMD the SSD is slowed, something that Intel devices do not do.
   
   
3. There may be something else going with your device, not sure as I'm not there to test, but Intel devices definitely do not do the "same" as AMD ones.
   
   
4. I just benched Surface Pro 6 with an i7 (so even older than yours) and I'll post the Geekbench scores (tests 8764953 and 8764904 to verify):
   

• AC: 1019 / 3354
• DC: 1057 / 3330

That's the normal, expected performance of Intel laptops (putting aside thermal throttling issues, which is a separate topic)."

 

Another from the same article. With more explanation.

I understand how you feel King, Buying something you think is one thing, then find out it's not exactly what you thought and now you have to defend your decision to make yourself feel better, after being misled by said company. But facts is facts.

"Daniel Rubino

"Where you go astray is when you say only AMD does this"

I just tested a Surface Pro 6 with a 2017 8th Gen Core i7 and I'll post the numbers below:

(Geekbench tests 8764953 and 8764904 to verify):

• AC: 1019 / 3354
• DC: 1057 / 3330

That's on a very thermal-constrained laptop from 3 years ago with a 4-year-old processor.

Gaming laptops get more complicated because of issues with thermal throttling (plus OEM custom software to control CPU performance is very common complicating things), but on regular Ultrabooks e.g. HP Envy x360 as noted by another commenter, the CPU/SSD/GPU drops are significant. This is a common theme with AMD laptops regardless of Ultrabooks status or gaming rig.

There may exceptions with Intel - I certainly haven't seen them and it's not widely reported as an issue - but I disagree this is the same, or even the same level as what AMD is doing, which is very common (all the AMD laptops I have: ROG Zeph, Blade 14, Laptop 3/4, HP Envy x360 do this). Moreover, this seems to be AMD policy vs odd OEM configuration/customizations (which may explain Intel exceptions, assuming your results are accurate).

Take something like the Blade 14 which we just reviewed. Some of the performance drops by merely unplugging it is well over 40% with the CPU dropping below 2GHz. It's a night/day difference when on AC vs DC."

 

I dont need to, tests have been done posted, if you claim otherwise then provide the evidence so it can be considered is really all it boils down to.

 

And to be 100% clear, I don't want your L5 to be gimped like the articles are stating AMD platforms are (I have high hopes for Lenovo, even if this isn't a ThinkPad).

Hitting 'base stock speeds' of 2.8GHz is having a mobile computer from 2011. Good luck with that.

It's not a matter of 'can you notice it'. Someone (I) can.

 

He did. He actually posted benchmarks of his systems that actually prove exactly what's being shown.

 

5am, I thought it was a quote for just me since I was notified.

 

It was. Ha ha.

 

My L5 is far from gimped and thanks for the concern. Never had a problem with its performance even on battery same goes for past Intel laptops i owned. Using an SSD helps a lot

I did some more quick tests but this time on my GF's Dell Inspiron 15 which uses an I5-8250U and the same thing happened as well as my L5. It reached near to the base clock speed which is 1.6GHZ and it rarely turboboost to its max clocks which is 3.4GHz no matter what i tried. When plugged in it often turboboost very often which most laptops do and its full potential is reached. Again its not an Intel nor AMD thing its more of a laptop thing as batteries lack the power and voltage to do so otherwise the battery life would be crap even running basic programs and plus Modern CPUs have features usually try to squeeze out the most battery life they can, not to mention OEM and Windows as well.

If you wanna go with some article instead of your own personal experience that on you but the point still stands that you wont reach your laptop true potential on battery and its been that way for years. Personally this has been a waste of time.

 

The 5300 2-in-1 I use for work on battery starts at 4.3-4.6Ghz and dials down according to thermals.

Stupid thing has never been repasted so it complains quickly and throttles down

 

It completely is an amd issue as you are ignoring fact. Fact Intel does not cut power to every component as soon as you pull the plug. Intel only dials back CPU speed once a thermal threshold is reached. Fact as soon as you pull the plug on an amd your CPU, graphics, ram, and ssd are all throttled 25 percent or more. Your benchmarking even proved this. The fact that you chose to ignore fact does not make it any less of a fact.

Fact, amd is getting ripped for this gaff. Rightfully so. Fact Intel are more efficient than amd. Proof is in the fact, yes, fact that they throttle every component just to keep battery life within reach of Intel.

 

Then explain these results.

 

Poor battery but serious i can do the same with my AMD CPU too.

I used AIDA64 to stress test the CPU on battery it reached its full 4.2GHZ for a bit until it power throttle because the battery dont have enough power. It reached to 48W before it started to power throttle. It a 45W TDP CPU after all.

Then how come my GF's intel laptop did the same thing? Explain that to me.

I dont want a Intel vs AMD war like you and Tiller wants so badly because its childish and stupid. I already said what needed to be said and ran the tests accordingly. Nobody cares about performance on battery besides you two as Modern Intel and AMD CPUs can easily handle most tasks while still having decent battery life. Anyone who wants to run a laptop on battery would want the most the battery life as possible. In my first post about the article i said that users should more control of it.

 

I fix it for you But they normally don't cut ssd/wifi performance permanent on Intel systems.

Running on battery power will limit performance. A Fire Strike run on batteries returns Physics and Graphics scores of 17354 and 7956 points, respectively, compared to 21030 and 9930 points when on mains.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-...ptop-Review-No-Core-i9-Nonsense.468199.0.html

Or near 25% lower Cpu performance on battery. Please Stop all this BS. Re-read my post #60

 

https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...en-running-on-battery.2003993/post-1044820371

User above has the Legion 5, expected losses on Cinebench for battery vs AC which again is expected

Another reference:

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/asus-zephyrus-g14-review-ac-vs-battery-performance/3/

 

Again. You are not correct.

 

Oh'well. Seems you don't understand how it works.

Running on battery power will impact performance.... Maybe not in your world.

Second Intel system... Physics is Cpu benchmarks for those of you that don't know.


You know it's up to the OEMs nowadays set the power limits on Intel chips in their notebooks? This apply both for AC and battery mode. Same also for BD-Prochot.

Significant Performance Drop on Battery dell.com/community

From Dell support Team... https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/a2nvt6/dell_xps_15_9570_low_performance_on_battery/

 

Reminds me a bit of when some of the members here were letting me know about how some laptops can ignore the limits on a 4700mq which got me wide eyed lol

We generally understand how things should operate since we been in the space for a while but sometimes we forget its still just an organized mess haha

 

Again, you are wrong. IF you actually read the story it shows that AMD, NOT the OEM has full control over the system speeds. So, NO it's not OEM issue.

 

for notebook still INTEL + NVIDIA "MSI"
what i saw you with AMD. ,,. so it doesn't work very well


edit
for desktop ?
here it probably doesn't matter if you have a good MOBO

 

I have no need for glasses. @Spartan@HIDevolution

 

One thing I praise Apple for is their new M1 chips don't throttle on battery.

Speaking of AMD vs Intel. AMD may beat Intel in synthetic benchmarks but a lot of applications such as Adobe Premiere, CAD apps, etc. are still optimized for Intel Code

 

I expect Apple also have some rotten eggs in their model lineup

How I fixed my M1 MacBook Air Throttle!

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-i-fixed-my-m1-macbook-air-throttle.2280634/

 

Remember, the MacBook Air hasn't any air (ie. no fan). The MacBook Pro has a fan

 

Yep, they have some models with flawed design. Pay more get more fans The greed have no limits!

6 Reasons Why You Should Avoid the Base Model 24-Inch M1 iMac - MakeUseOf
11. jun. 2021 — The starting price for Apple's new M1-powered 24-inch iMac is ... in a performance hit that's popularly known as thermal throttling.

 

I have not the base model. Did you see my sig?

 

Yep, I know you wanted the extra to be able to use it as intended Pay more get more of what the model should have as minimum in first place. Can the extra fan be used to cool you in the hotter days?

 

If you know me for such a long time, you should know my personality that I always order the best, not because I like wasting money but it is just something in my personality. For example, if I wanted to buy an iToy phone, I will always go for the max storage and to use it it rather than paying less for the base model and kick myself in the butt for when that day where my storage is full and I start having to delete stuff. The same goes with cars and taptops

 

Maybe not a base model but certainly a based model

 

Hey, it's a Mac. They're all base models. Defective by design.

 

pew pew shots fired!

 

This is why having a hackintosh is awesome.

Unfortunately the new Apple silicon but the brakes on that.

Fortunately I haven't actually needed MacOS since I graduated high school 5 years ago. All the tools I used now have equivalents for Windows, there are better tools only available on Windows, or I discovered equivalents I didn't know existed before. The only downside here is that I have a large amount of Garageband projects to recreate now, and I haven't gotten to that yet.

 

The mere fact that they do this, and have always tried to, makes them an unworthy technology provider. It is unfortunate that anyone that views their self as a technology enthusiast would allow their garbage to occupy air space under the roof of their abode. Even more than the Redmond Reprobates, as difficult as it might be to fathom, they are extra-ordinarily greedy, self-serving, arrogant and have a disturbing lack of consumer-facing awareness. It is fortunate for them that their customer base is composed primarily of codependent sheeple that are reliant on someone else being their shepherd/puppet master. I believe this is the only reason they still exist.

 

See:
https://www.windowscentral.com/lenovo-legion-5-pro-review

More AMD advantages...

 

On battery


On AC


https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-...or-slightly-more-RTX-3070-power.551690.0.html

 

Is disabling cores still a thing or no?

Make it a 2c/4t for when you are expecting to be on battery and refuse any system that doesnt have MUX capabilities. Best of both worlds In my opinion

 

Yes it certainly can be. In fact, some games and benchmarks perform better with either cores or hyperthreading disabled on extremely high court count processors. This is especially true on older games and benchmarks that were released when a quad core CPU with hyperthreading was high tech. In certain cases having more than 8 or 10 threads can lower performance