Samsung 1TB mSATA 840 EVO Coming

Patience young grasshoppers

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There're some stores allow pre-order. You can check with B&H, ADORAMA, etc.. they all should be available on Jan 28.

Anyway, can anyone tell the difference between the 2.5" & mSATA in terms of performance (if any). Since I have ordered a 1TB 840 EVO 2.5" so I'm now kinda on the fence of going with this or staying with the 2.5". Cost difference is around $120 for the 1TB version.

 

There is no difference other than form factor. The internal components should be identical in the 2.5" and mSATA.

 

There are lots of differences - from TRIM not working (mSATA) to weird glitches that Samsung has not explained away yet after 10 days past the Anandtech posted review.

See:
AnandTech | Samsung SSD 840 EVO mSATA (120GB, 250GB, 500GB & 1TB) Review


Not saying it's bad: but different it certainly is (it has to be - different hardware, different firmware, what do you expect? Magic?).

 

From an app that calls itself magician, I do expect magic.


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Then I guess you also believe in the tooth fairy too?

 

Sound like I better stay with the 2.5". At least until the price drops lil' bit. Consider good bargain though

 

Interesting, since the article states on the first page that everything is identical:

"Hardware and specification wise the EVO mSATA is a match with the 2.5" EVO, which shouldn't surprise anyone since we're dealing with identical hardware."

TRIM works identically to the 2.5" versions. As a poster commented:

"The trim behavior might be something introduced with one of the latest firmwares. I have a Samsung 840 250GB and I recently tried doing some steady state tests. After hammering it with writes, trim does not restore performance immediately. However with normal usage/light workloads, or keeping the drive idle, however, it will eventually (in a matter of hours) return back to the initial performance.

I guess this is some kind of strategy to improve long term wear/stability/write endurance. Maybe some sustained write protection kicks in to avoid writing immediately at full speed after trimming the free space."

 

From the article (not a commenter):

It would seem strange for Samsung to address this and then simply ignore Anandtech's direct questions regarding this issue? This is why I'm discounting the commenter and relying more on the article as stated.

 

As for the hardware and specification-wise is identical part - they may be saying it in a more general way.

For example: 3 core controller, 1x nm nand, all in-house, etc., etc..

 

Interesting. I missed the TRIM comment. I guess we'll see if Anand makes an update to his article.

 

Newegg got some of them in today. I ordered a 250gb mSata to add to my AW14 which had 2 250gb in raid0. I'll run some test on the mSata as a single drive before I add it to my raid0 ..

 

Without TRIM functioning on the mSATA drive - I would not be putting it in a RAID0 environment.

 

Even with TRIM it still needs time to pass through garbage collection especially after you hammer it with writes. TRIM doesn't magically make the cell writable, just flags it as used. If it hasn't had the time to clear that cell, then it will take just as long as if it wasn't TRIM'ed.

I do! As a matter of fact she came around this weekend... you got a problem with that!?

 

I might run it standalone for a while. I will call samsung, if not ill just send it back... and wait for updates. Gives me something to do while my AW18 is in the depot for repair...

 

New firmware is likely required for these drives to let the TRIM function be done more agressively to the mSATA EVO drives.
Anandtech tortured the drive for an entire hour with 4K writes, so Samsung might not have made a protocol that calls in TRIM more often for these scenarios. Which is why Samsung may not have put this high on the priority list.

 

Wait, so this is a crock?

"Stay connected longer with extended battery life
When you're on the move with your PC, the last thing you want to have happen is to run out of power. With Samsung 840 EVO mSATA installed, you can stay connected longer and power up faster thanks to Device Sleep (DEVSLP). Your PC no longer needs to go into standby mode to conserve battery life, nor do you have to wait for it to power back on. Take full advantage of your AOAC (always on always connected) professional life, while enjoying a longer battery life."

 

Was that a commercial?

I'm sure you would -- and I wouldn't mind that either. But I think we'll have to wait until it drops from the-state-of-the-art, and get a few more competitor first.

It looks like Amazon has finally join the 840 EVO mSATA pack. Albeit at a premium price.

 

It's Samsung copy. I wanted to know whether it's significantly worse than other mSATA SSDs

 

Let me clarify a couple of points: I want these large capacity drives for high speed storage (or as a File History location...). As an O/S drive, I am not impressed (for my needs) vs. the real performance and power benefits current MLC drives offer.

The TRIM not working comment stands. I agree with everyone's comments about TRIM - but AnandTech has been using the same method to test if TRIM works for years now - if he says it's not working. It's not. If other drives can be TRIMm'ed with his method in the same time frame and the mSATA EVO's can't - it's a BIG problem (over time). Not to mention the weird effects OP'ing this drive has on it's performance. The firmware still needs work.

As for the higher power consumption of the EVO's (while in use) - yeah, nothing is for free. You can't use ~3GB or more of pseudo-SLC nand for caching the writes and expect it to do so without any consequences. After the writes are completed (and/or the cache is full) to that section of the drive, it still has to copy that same data to the real long term storage area. And this is where the extra power is used.


And is extended battery life a crock with SSD's? Yeah; with some of them it is.

And depending on how you use this EVO, it may not live up to the battery life enhancing claims either (and neither will it's performance).

 

But it's a bloody TB! If it existed I'd even buy a spinning mSATA drive in that capacity.

 

Capacity (after a certain point) has never been paramount to performance, reliability and power/heat output for any of my storage subsystems.

YMMV

 

Actually capacity is extremely important for performance.

 

Cloudfire, I wish we had a 'do not like' button.

 

Bah I didnt see that. Never mind me then

 

Its really not an either or since the two are closely related. I've already has to replace two very fast drives because they fill up so fast there were of little use under any practical circumstances. On the other hand, I moved from a 1TB drive in quest of better speed in the first place

When these improvements come, they're going to come incrementally since it would not serve the manufacture financially to give everyone everything all at once. That's just doesn't make good business sense..

 

Given that mSATA drives are the most expensive, wouldn't it be better off going with a lesser capacity mSATA that doesn't suffer from TRIM problems for the OS drive, and a larger capacity SSD or HDD for storage?

 

I chatted with the guy over at thessdreview and some other guys on a couple
Other places and they said they haven't seen a trim issue. I also called samsung and pointed the tech to the anadtech article. He said they haven't heard or have any bulletins about trim issues on the new mSata drives.

 

Then where is all this rigamarole coming from? Over anxious enthusiasts?

 

Not if mSATA is all you have (my XPS has the 90somethingw battery and I intend to keep it that way)

 

thessdreview always gives glowing reviews about anything they test (or so it seems). Have never read otherwise from that site (or when he was here at nbr).

Of course the manufacturer won't admit anything is wrong: they're trying to fix it (and ignoring Anandtech's queries in the meantime; as stated in that article how many days ago now?).

 

These SSD's are now available on eBay.

 

I hope they are real and not like the link below

How do you spot fake Chinese USB hard drives? Well, you take them apart - GSMArena Blog

John.

 

They're real.

Samsung 840 EVO Series 250GB MSATA3 SATA3 SATA 6 0 GB s Solid State Drive | eBay

Amazon is already allowing third-party resellers (PCNation, etc.) to sell them through their website. I'm assuming Amazon and NewEgg will have them soon enough. :thumbsup:

 

Yeah got this Wednesday from newegg

 

The 120GB(MZ-MTE120B/KR),250GB(MZ-MTE250B/KR) and 500GB(MZ-MTE500B/KR) have made their appearance in Korea.

@ tilleroftheearth wrote:
" thessdreview always gives glowing reviews about anything they test (or so it seems). Have never read otherwise from that site (or when he was here at nbr)."

All the good knowledgeable posters on that site's forum left because of Les(owner) not being able to accept corrective criticism of his glowing carbon copy reviews of every drive and suggestions on how to improve the site.

He deleted a lot of posts he didn't like.

 

Here's some prices:

Amazon for $615, free ship but no stock.
BHPhoto for $615, free ship but no stock.
SuperBiiz for $625+9 shipping - says they have it in stock.

 

Amazon UK has a couple of the 1TB in stock but at £580 I'll wait.

However, dabs.com is £510, which is almost reasonable.

John

 

Yeah, I'm still waiting for these mSATA drives too.

I bought a few mSATA Crucial M500 240GB models for ~$139 (yeah; $0.58/GB) for File History use and this sets a low point on price per GB for me now. The 1TB models will have to be less than $0.50 for me to think about (from a financial perspective).

What the above M500's gave me was pretty sweet: about 1 minute incremental backup times (much like Apple's Time Machine) that hit almost 400MB/s in Task Manager between two SSD's (Crucial M4 writing to Crucial M500). All contained in a single notebook with nothing to lose, forget or otherwise worry about. (Initiated by Action Center, File History, Run Now).

What the 1TB EVO's will offer (performance-wise) will be interesting to see.

I just know that their competition is more than just their capacity; it is also their $$/GB cost and before they're even generally available; that price point has dropped again.

Right now; less than $520 for the 1TB models, is where I'll be considering them for FH duties. And hopefully with the TRIM function fixed too.

 

The price on Amazon.co.uk seems to be dropping 10 pound per day.

What is the bottom line of that? Is it going to be about the same price as its 2.5 inch counterpart?

 

If anything; it should be less than the 2.5" model. Eventually.

 

I would have thought just the opposite even if it's cheaper to build, Competition isn't as great, driving down prices in mSATA, supply. Not as many systems with it either, demand.

 

I would think that all the systems currently having an mSATA port (including the new systems for sale needing mSATA drives) would dwarf the ability of even Samsung to keep up with the initial demand.

We have been starved for these drives for over two years now; the demand is greater than you give credit for.

And no, I don't consider 240/256GB mSATA drives an option (when we've been tempted with double the capacity for the last year or so).

 

Well, if there is a high demand for the 1TB and Samsung can't keep up, that favors higher price. They are the only game in town for 1TB. The lack of competition hurts the consumer the most.

The M500 480GB mSATA is on sale cheaper than the 2.5" at Newegg. And on sale but still more expensive on Amazon but close.

The M500 960GB is at Black Friday prices. That should reduce the 2.5" EVO even more.

The 1TB EVO mSATA is in stock at Newegg. When the 2.5" 960GB was released you had to get lucky to buy one. Was the problem high demand or low supply with the 960? I don't know. Maybe Samsung has plenty of mSATA ready since it is in stock. Perhaps the demand won't be as great because the systems with both 2.5' and mSATA already traded up in 2.5" Also, many older systems with both 2.5" and mSATA, the speed of mSATA was SATA II. I can see the demand in mSATA only systems. I just don't know the percentage of the market they hold.

 

I doubt Samsung is only selling the 840's to average consumers. I'm sure they're selling plenty to businesses all over the world. Even if people choose the M500 over the EVO, it won't hurt them, per say. It will just force them to adjust their pricing. Prices are always inflated in the beginning. There's a "hype" about the product, and they take advantage of this for a while, then adjust prices accordingly. Happens with practically any product in the tech world, especially gaming consoles.

 

The problem with supply and demand is that the consumer (someone like me, for example) that knows what is needed to do business will not buy these at any price: they will only be sought after at the right price.

As I've stated before in this thread: less than $0.50 per GB is a fair price for me to pay, given the compromises and the intended (for me) use: File History locations.

I'm sure others are just as smart as me: $659 + shipping (newegg.com) is not a deal. Even if it is the only game in town.

If you actually need it now; sure, pay you will.

But for everyone else, buying now just for bragging rights is what Samsung and the resellers are hoping for; gouging the market as much as they can stand.

I'm past bragging rights, 'needing' anything 'now' and spending just for the sake of spending.

The bottom line is that economics 101 only works in textbooks - in the real world, almost everything that has a price is driven by greed.

I try to not live in either realm.

 

Aren't consoles typically sold at a loss to begin with? As time goes by, they benefit from improvements in technology and design that allow them to lower prices (i.e. the two PS3 revisions or the XBox 360 update).

 

Sure, tilleroftheearth, there are others as smart as you and there aren't Look at GM or Ford. I (the frugal consumer) can't understand why anyone would buy a Lincoln Navigator instead of the Ford Expedition when everything that is important is the same. GM - Chevy Tahoe, GMC Yukon, Cadillac Denali.That faux wood trim must be awesome.

You still have a demand when the supply is at your price.

The 1TB EVO mSATA being the only game in town lets Samsung dictate it's price. In multi-port systems it has competition.

That greed can control supply and even demand somewhat.

At least Samsung is selling the mSATA EVO retail. The PM841 was OEM. Why? They had to have an economic reason.

 

I have had the opportunity to compare the 1TB EVO mSATA with the 480GB Crucial M500 mSATA and my findings are here.

One clear finding is that the EVO is much more frugal with power when idle.

John

 

Very nice comparison. The 1TB EVO still consumes less power than the 480GB M500 even with double the capacity, very nice indeed. It would also be curious to see peak power consumption as well. With fast and low power mSATA drives now available, hopefully many thin and lights will ditch the 2.5" drive bay and offer two mSATA drives as options. You could run two 1TB mSATA drives and still sip power on idle, and have the performance on demand when needed.