Samsung 1TB mSATA 840 EVO Coming

Unfortunately, maximum power would be challenging to measure indirectly through monitoring the system power consumption because working the SSD is likely to cause a substantial increase in the CPU activity.

The EVO datasheet doesn't give a maximum power consumption but the label on the SSD says "3.3V 1.9A" which is a hefty 6.27W (about double what what most modern 2.5" HDDs would use). Given that the EVO runs cooler than the M500, which has "3.3V 1.7A" on the label, it looks like Samsung are being generous unless there are relatively short bursts of high power consumption which don't push up the averages very far.

BTW, I've just found this Samsung paper on over-provisioning which makes interesting reading.

John

 

John, the link you gave did not take me to the OP'ing paper you're talking about.

Hopefully this link does:

See:
http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...me_and_Performance_with_Over_Provisioning.pdf



Good to see manufacturers realize how important OP'ing is. I have to laugh at the 10% that is recommended (of course), but it's a start.

When I started testing OP'ing on an Intel 510 Series SSD about 3 years ago now, the 'magic' would happen at around 40-50% OP'ing. My tests? Simply doing a clean install of Windows 7 x64 Pro (with updates as needed) and installing my programs, their updates and the proper drivers for my system.

This 'simple', repeatable and for me, standardized method would indicate very early how much OP'ing would result in the most productive setup for my workflows.

The PDF is a little vague about the performance benefit of OP'ing (it doesn't give you more performance than the SSD would otherwise provide; it gives you as much sustained performance over time as possible).

Maybe a better way to phrase this is that without OP'ing you may (depending on your workload) get less performance than what you expect or paid for, given the SSD's 'specs'.

Today's SSD's are faster, better, cheaper and larger. However; one thing that hasn't changed is the need for OP'ing them to keep them as healthy as possible, which in turn benefits us with a drive that is as responsive as possible (almost no matter how we use it).

30% is still my default OP'ing percentage (anything less and I see a performance drop even for simply doing Windows Updates each month) - I will have to revisit this when I next upgrade my workstations with 480/512GB SSD's and see if that still holds true today with today's MLC drives.

For the Samsung and other TLC drives available; I would still not run them with less than 30%+ OP'ing - the benefits, as the PDF mentions are not only a more responsive SSD; but also a healthier one. And TLC nand needs more help in staying healthy than MLC does at this point.

Thanks for the heads up; it should make it easier for others to see why I've been pushing OP'ing for so long now.

(I like Samsung's 'chef with limited counter space' example).

 

Thanks for the correction.

For anyone wanting to read more on SSDs, here's a list of Samsung SSD white papers.

I'll have to be more diligent about the housekeeping and avoid letting my SSD fill to bursting point.

John

 

Nice John
Samsung EVO 1tb msata is the best at the moment when it comes to power consumption.
291 minutes of MobileMark 2012.Intel 525 also has 295 minutes but it has problem with heat.Next is "My Digital BP4" but i don't know anything about his reliability.
What i would love to see is MobileMark test of EVO msata 250GB version.It has about same busy time like 1tb version but it draws 1W less because it has less NAND.120GB version has the lowest power consumption because it has the lowest amount of NAND ,but it also has higher busy time and lower speed so that's stopping him to be the king of power efficiency.
About RAPID ,its proven bad performance of RAPID software.RAPID software use only 1gb of ram even if you have 16gb of ram in your system so it needs to flush data constantly.Which slowing down system.In fact every ramcache software is useless if you don't have at least 24gb of ram.When you have 20gb of ram to give cache software to use it ,then you have almost whole system on ram and then you don't see constant flushing of data.

Whole review on techreport.
A closer look at RAPID DRAM caching on the Samsung 840 EVO SSD - The Tech Report - Page 1

 

Uhm... constantly flushing? I'm not saying I agree to an artificial limit while you have plenty of resources available, but 1GB is plenty for most scenarios. What use do you have for a cache beyond that?

Do you really wanna wait each shutdown until 20GB gets written back to disk? Do you constantly wanna risk to lose such a high amount of data?

 

If we say it like that oled then we never needed such a big SSDs.WD could put us 1GB NAND on HDD and everybody happy.But we all want fast and now
What I wanted to say is:what we need is that cache software loads whole Windows on ram and not just a browser or mail client ,so when you need something new you are back to SSD speeds,whats the point then?
But like I said a thousand time ,while we don't have option to set up ramdisk in bios and install Windows on it I stick to SSD speeds.

answer to question number 1.my desktop was used and abused today.We don't turn it off,it goes to sleep when it can and that is never.First my wife about 200mb then my first daughter about 2GB games,my second daughter school about 200mb and then I, hard surfing always looking for something with 10 tabs open ,at least 500mb on day.
answer to question number 2:my system needed about 4seconds to save 4Gb of ramcache data.

 

What I wanted to say is:what we need is that cache software loads whole Windows on ram and not just a browser or mail client ,so when you need something new you are back to SSD speeds,whats the point then?
But like I said a thousand time ,while we don't have option to set up ramdisk in bios and install Windows on it I stick to SSD speeds.
answer to question number 1.my desktop was used and abused today.We don't turn it off,it goes to sleep when it can and that is never.First my wife about 200mb then my first daughter about 2GB games,my second daughter school about 200mb and then I, hard surfing always looking for something at least 10 tabs open at least 500mb on day.
answer to question number 2:my system needed about 4seconds to save 4Gb of ramcache data.

 

Nope, flushing the cache obviously takes longer on a spinning disk.

You miss the point. A ramdisk is not meant to be storage system, but a dynamic cache of frequently accessed files.
You still need to flush writes to have that data permanently saved. Reading / Writing to cache in fact is overhead unless you frequently access this data.
Loading the whole Windows installation including software into RAM is a waste of resources. What's next? Do you wanna load your whole SSD into RAM?

 

Yes ,but you also miss a point ,a lot of people use frequently more then 1GB of data and that is situation where is better to stick with SSD then with RAPID.
If you use less then 1gb of data ,if you dont play games and dont work with big videos then we have situation where you got point and you are right.
My point is that we would be even better without flushing ,even if it happens in collaboration with SSD.I am in pursue of this:

Man how you guess my dream ,that's what I really want some day ,to buy X79 with 64gb of memory and to make 60GB ram-disk in BIOS to install OS on it and one or two games.But I think it would never happened.Maybe some day they make some kind on non-volatile DRAM .
I don't know how this ULTRA-DIMM works?Would we see DRAM 4K speeds with it?

 

Evo 1TB is $499 right now on Amazon. I haven't been following pricing, but I think that's an awesome price: Amazon.com: Samsung Electronics 840 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5-Inch SATA III Single Unit Version Internal Solid State Drive MZ-7TE1T0BW: Computers & Accessories

 

Nice price, but the mSATA version is still >$660. The 2.5" price shows there's plenty of potential for the mSATA prices to come down although Samsung don't have any competition in the 1TB mSATA size.

John

 

TRIM is working on the 2.5" EVO, right? I'm tossing up between the 1TB EVO and the 1TB Crucial.

 

TRIM works fine on 2.5" EVO. I would opt for EVO for a few reasons:
(1) Samsung Magician gives you easy GUI manual control over your drive
(2) Power consumption -idle and peak are much better with EVO
(3) Performance - EVO is just simply faster
(4) Heat - I am not sure what the EVO runs at but my 1TB Crucial M500 can get warm, like 50C

This is why I'm even considering swapping my Crucial M500 for an EVO, but just can't justify another $500 at this point in time when my M500 is working just fine. Unless you want to buy my Crucial for $300 and then I can justify the EVO!

edit: holy cow people are buying used Crucial M500 960GB's for over $400 on eBay! Might have to go that route perhaps. I just hate dealing with finicky or stupid customers, who want the world for song. I also noticed my "total NAND writes" are only 713GB, not even a full drive amount of NAND yet.

 

Interesting. You're not concerned about the TLC thing?

If it were purely storage drive I'd undoubtedly be going for the Samsung but I will be using it for my OS and will be doing a fair bit of music and video editing on it, so reliability is a big concern.

The heat issue is quite a big deal.

 

Reliability is not a concern. Heck I've run a Samsung 840 120GB to 200TB in an accelerated torture test and it's still going strong. The firmware and tech behind the EVO drive is even better yet.

 

I just picked one of these up, it idles at 50-63deg at times - I'm not too sure if this is normal? came from a 256gb Crucial M4.

Perhaps its the location in the laptop (P150EM) pretty tight spot. Anyone got one of these that can tell me different?

 

Is this a recent O/S install?

It is probably doing it's TRIM/GC routines and with the TLC nand requiring much higher voltages (and therefore heat) it may be something that will decrease after it is left alone for a while (overnight, with sleep disabled would be ideal).

But yeah; much too hot for my comfort (about the same as the M500 SSD's - 2.5" or mSATA models). Not going to trust any data or O/S installation on that storage subsystem device for surviving for too long there (or not helping the cpu/gpu from also cooking too).

 

My 960GB M500 runs 50-55C at times. It's solid state, little to worry about compared to a magnetic platter spinning at thousands of RPM's.

 

The spinning is what heats up the platter drives (and they probably run better for it when less than ~50C).

The erase programming is what heats up nand chips and it deteriorates the nand faster than it has to. Not to mention most of the newer SSD's have built in throttling of the performance when the temps shoot up (duh; that's not a solution).


The new (low end) SSD's have traded low temps for slightly higher performance bragging rights (because they can't sustain that higher performance in an actual mobile system). Worse (performance-wise), the drive becomes slower as more and more ECC is needed for each successive write/read operation from these degraded nand chips.

What is even more worrisome is when this unnecessary excess heat is affecting/throttling other components: including our laps and hands/fingers.


Just duh.

 

Thanks for the reply guys. So this is normal hahaha.

Yeah was a new OS install - but the OS actually resides on a normal 1TB evo not the msata lol. It's close to my CPU, but doesn't seem to affect its temp at all which is good, even under load. I was only planning on using this drive for storage and games anyhow.

It was a little surprising seeing 65deg on its initial stages - thats 5deg off its max operating temp. it idles around 50deg+, which seems pretty damn hot for normal operating temps!

HTWingNut - what temp has your M500 peaked at?

 

I have a 500GB Samsung EVO.

Max temperature I have ever gotten is 44C and right now its at 33C. Note that the temperature changes with the temperature within your notebook because the SSD cant cool itself. So if you have a smaller notebook, especially thinner, chances are it will run a little hotter. Also my SSD is a normal 2.5 SSD thats encapsulated inside its own chassis so that protects the thermal sensors from heat sources nearby like a GPU.
So my values are closer to real SSD temperature because I also have a huge thick notebook.

 

I don't know for certain, but 55C seems about max that I've noticed. Then again, who knows what the sensor is measuring, where, and how accurate it is. Is it the controller, PCB, NAND, who knows. Right now it's running 52C but I've been using my computer quite a bit.

 

p570wm and 270 are known to have hot HDD bays. 55C to 60C is way too high imo.

 

Well I've been using mine pretty intensely for the last six months or so at that temp and so far so good.

 

yea depending on the soldering quality i guess. we have had GPU go bad at 70C constantly due to bad soldering, it has happened to nvidia and AMD graphics, so it all really depends. i'd assume SSDs are the same, if controller and pcb can withstand high heat, then its to see if solder will crack over time on the flash. if it cracks, then good bye to the SSD.

 

Solder shouldn't crack at all, if it does then it's a lot bigger issue. The only widespread solder cracking issue was with nVidia 8400/8600m GPU's and that was due to using crap solder. Otherwise that isn't even a consideration or anything to worry about.

 

there are bunch of other GPU not just the ones you listed man. x1800 mobility 7900 7800 gts or gtx, 8800 gts and couple other from desktop line up. even if one generation is good doesnt mean all cards are good in that generation.

it "shouldn't" but theres a reason we don't pour hot water on frozen car window to melt the snow/ice lol. huge difference in temperature jump in a short period of time cause expansion too quickly and will crack a lot of stuff, solder included.

solder melts at 175-190C regular solder but temp difference is from 0 to 20C jump towards say 60C under load, over a long period of time it will do harm, slowly. if you don't plan to keep your SSD for say 10 years then not a problem i guess. again this is regular solder im talking about I have no idea what stuff they are using, just my 2cents

 

The price is following a downward trajectory faster than I had expected: Currently <£430 on Amazon UK.

John

 

are you.. getting one?

 

I already bought mine a few weeks ago. See here.

John

 

hows the performance?

 

Did you read the review?

However, I haven't tried to kill the SSD with terabytes of writes to see how well it might (or might not) recover.

John

 

the only part i find it interesting in the entire review was temperature.. everything else was just benchmark after benchmark, anyone can do that..

 

Yes,and what you suggest he need to do?Take hammer and hit it so you can see can SSD absorb the shock.With resources he had he did good review.We now know EVO is cooled and frugal and that is more important thing for notebooks.
Programs that will really do some difference with review are more then expencive.MobileMark 2012 costs 1000$ and so on.
So don't think if you have 10 expensive SSDs you know more about SSD and its giving you right to disrespect somebody efforts.
By the way how you cooling those hot 525 ,with water?
Only thing that I wanted to see in this review is compering also this EVO with Crucial M4 and U100 that you still have(this last sentence was for John).

 

Then read the my m4 review along side the new one. That review also includes the U100. What it lacks is the temperature and power observations for the m4 and U100.

John

 

Yes John but like i said that is the most important thing ,i already know what mb/s can do those two.But M4 and U100 don't have temp sensor so you cant do anything about it.
Dont worry,proceed as usually

 

Samsung 1TB 840 EVO mSATA SSD for $559 – B&H

B&H # SAMZMTE1T0BW ■ Mfr # MZ-MTE1T0BW

In Stock
Free Shipping

$559


Amazon has it for the same $559 price but if you have 2-day Prime shipping (like I do), you'll likely get it in less time. Although it says, "Usually ships within 1 - 2 months." Nevermind.

 

what about the consistency of these drives as storage fills up to its max? don't see anything in regards to that it'd be nice to have that included as well. i know a bunch of people like to fill storage device right up.

tl;dr

 

None of the SSDs like being filled right up.

Hence the discussion about over-provisioning to leave some free space for the drive to manage its storage better.

The attraction of 1TB is that it should be easier for the user to set aside some space compared with 500GB.

John

 

delete me... misread post.

 

Yes you are right,and "disk busy time" would also be great to see,but like I said missing of those two should not be the reason to speak that way.But I believe if you have ever seen Samsung thread on this forum you would not speak like that.John is there 24/7 I think there is no owner of Samsung notebook that he didn't help I am talking here about thousands of people ,i never saw moderator with that kind consistency so i am not angry at him he didn't made better review because i know he hurry up to Samsung thread so people don't wait for his answer.In fact like he said one time he should definitely have full time job as Samsung support .
When we speaking about Samsung support in my country they charge phone call but they don't know anything. I think those guys that work there don't even know what is msata and what is wifi.

 

To update Samsung Magician from 4.2.1 to 4.3, should I just overwrite the previous version, or do you need to remove the old one first?

 

I think a simple over write is fine for Magician.

 

Have a few minor issues with 4.3.

1. Won't authenticate EVO. says "failed to".

2. Today crashed on start-up

3. Seem to have lost over 10GB of space. Disabled hibernation and checked virtual memory, so not sure where it's gone.

4. Can't update firmware still (previous versions wouldn't work either).

EDIT: Should add I solved 1 and 4 by removing Intel Rapid Storage Technology, as noted below by John Ratesy. Forgot I had posted in this thread and should have updated!

 

dont trust samsung software

 

As noted in another thread, SSD Magician can get confused by Intel Rapid Storage Technology.

Try uninstalling the latter and see if everything works as it should.

John