Samsung 830 SSD

Did you try the F6 driver install and setting up the raid array then, prior to installing windows ?

 

The problem's not with Windows. I've done probably a dozen installs on this laptop (not counting my current troubleshooting) in different RAID and non RAID configurations and had zero issues with windows installing (apart from me breaking it by trying to tweak it ). Since I did the secure erase the "Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology - Option ROM" screen that appears as soon as you power on the laptop (as per the preview pic for the second video on Mr Foxs 1st post in the M18x thread you pointed me to) doesn't appear when I've got both SSDs installed. So I can't even set the RAID configuration to have to worry about what windows will think of it!

I've registered over at storage review, and am working my way through their forums to see whats what over there. I'm gonna give up trying to fix it myself and see what Samsung or Dell customer support come up with. Once I've beaten it (even if I have to blag Dell into swapping out the drives) I'll update this thread and post a something in the M17x owners lounge about this as a warning to others.

Cheers

 

Gotcha. Hope it all works out rosy.

 

Is that correct there is an irrecoverable performance degradation after continuous writes ?

 

There is a new firmware for the 830 series (CXM02B1Q) dated yesterday (Jan 9, 2012). Strange thing is, the Samsung SSD Magician tells me I have the latest (I have not!) FW available.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/downloads/solid-state-drives/MZ-7PC128N/AM

Anyone tried it so far? How was the Windows flash going?

Thanks for the xtremesystems.org guys for the finding.

 

It looks like the new firmware has addressed some compatibility and stability issues. For the XS guys the most obvious changes are:

SMART attribute 177 (WL-count and MWI) seems to be now working without having to do power cycling;
Write amplification seems to be significantly reduced.

 

@NIGHTMARE and others mentioning "irrecoverable performance drop"

I'm using 80 G1 X-25m that has 2yrs (well more like 19 months). I have written 3,21TB ! ONLY .... most XtremeSystems Forums users mention 30TB in a week! I roughly write 5 - 6GB per day it means that they write ten times more - 50 - 60GB per day! This already x3 exceeds mentioned specification (most SSD manufacturers state 20GB/day). I'm clearly see here that SLC and 50nm SSD stand well beyond 25nm NAND modules (some old Intels hold better that new Samsungs) but let's not forget - this is not regular scanario when you have 128GB SSD and every day you write half of it.

I dont force myself in any way to write less, this is just how my work is done. We can also put it in different description - my PC is not render machine.Period.

It is clear, though, that manufacturers could put "warning note" on SSD's. It is also interesting is this fault of 3D rendering software - if it holds cache on SSD (because there's not enough RAM) then someone who use GPU renders (Octane anyone?) that put whole scene into GPU VRAM should not see SSD degrade that fast.

(discussion thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm - Page 121)

EDIT: There's two things mixed in my answer, one is that person who found too fast aging of Samsung 830 is also involwed in 3D, and second is thing that guy's on xtremesystems are trying to wear SSD's for knowledge/fun. They're using Anvil loop test to do that. Sorry for mixing this up, but questions still apply, does such scenario exist and is it degrading SSD too fast.

 

^^ yesterday I order 830 128GB and the price is increased now by $10

 

I was able to get my 128gb 830 for $185 and that included overnight shipping, gotta love online coupon codes, lol.

 

holy $hit man I paid $219.99 ^^ from where ?

 

I also have some questions about the 830 series. I was contemplating the Crucial M4, until the "5200 Hour bug". I have read numerous places that the performance degradation (similar on both Crucial and Samsung), is due to delayed "Garbage Collection" My current SSD is the Intel 320 and it does garbage collection in realtime...which basically is set up to clear the cells as though I am running a HDD. In addition, the Intel SSD Toolbox has the ability to clear the cells on demand. I understand that Samsung has similar software package...will it clear the cells and keep the SSD performing in top form? I can pick up a 256 GB 830 for $369 and am hedging because of the performance issues...

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

If you had such a good experience with intel, why not wait a couple of weeks for Intel 520.

 

It's amazing what a little internet searching will find...

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c.../Magician_Software_User_Manual_Ver.3.1_EN.pdf

 

I am aware of Software magician...what I am asking is, "Is it as effective as Intel toolbox?" Intel toolbox will clear cells and keep performance up to spec....Is Magician that good? If YES...then I suspect that Samsung can take advantage of Crucial's stumble and really gain some serious ground. My misgiving is that performance will drop and that I will have to leave the machine idle for a number of hours for Garbage collection to take place. Perhaps I misworded my original question.

 

Intel costs about 15-20% more. They are charging premiums based on their name, not real performance

 

@Bobmitch relax you won't need to leave laptop to do GC, as if you are using any of systems (W7, Linux ...) that support TRIM, then problem of GC is not your concern. Samsung SSD Magician doesn't do anything different than Trim does (plus allows to Trim in OS's without Trim and turns off OS settings like: defrag etc.).

Many people, and I myself, read just fragmented information about SSDs. People at extremesystems are checking differences between 25nm and 34nm NAND cells. To do that they deliberately write to SSD huge amount of data, what's more - they write this data in specific manner and data size blocks (4KB random) and does not allow controller to pass Trim command due to continuous write requests. This type of continuous writting does NOT happen in 99% use case. You are not running SQL database that is writting 4KB data continuously for 20 hours (for God sake)... they do it because this writting patern reveal lack of controler algorithms. Those controler write algorithms in effect have different WA (wear amplification) and can show which SSD controller does writting best. They are assessing how much cycles in reality NAND cells are able to withstand compared to specified by SSD manufacturer (and some SSDs like 320's exceed 5000 factor .. seems the cells manage to hold even 18 000 -it is on their charts).
Second thing that they spotted on was "point" when SSD's change their "maximum write" speed - as they are now 100% sure this is due to prevent from exceeding write capacity of SSD cells before warranty period for disk expire. BUT ... they have written 100TB of Host Writes - it means that:
- if I write, say, 2TB per year (and that's a bit above my number actually) then to get to that point it would take me 50 years! of normal use of Samsung 830 SSD.

Conclusion: to get to their point you had to wrote 64GB disk more than few times full per day! You wont get to that point, in disk life, when SSD will throttle write.

 

My mistake - after re-reading your post I realized your question was about how good it was and not looking for confirmation that existed. My apologies.

 

Appreciated, but no need! I am so on the fence between the Samsung and Crucial...right now...Samsung is looking better and better...

 

GREAT explanation...guess my worries are unfounded. Samsung drive looking better all the time...still want to see what Crucial does to fix 5200 hour bug...but even if they do...Samsung is winning me over

 

So uh yeah... that update has BSOD's my laptop a good 5 times now, and it won't even update via DOS either.

First time I tried to update via Windows it just outright died as soon as I clicked Start, and now trying via DOS just says there's no SSD detected x:

 

Are you talking about new firmware update?

 

Yep. Apparently I have the new update though, I checked the version and it matches what the new one says it is, although I don't remember if it was that one when I first got it s:

 

I cannot find the firmware in the above link, only magician software and Norton Ghost files.

 

Old firmware version is CXM01B1Q

New one is CXM02B1Q

After BSOD, you need to shut down computer in order to properly install it. Restart not work.

 

You need to click the "Firmware" tab in the above link.


Samsung

 

Thanks, get the 'firmware' tab now, wasn't getting it before. But this appears to be an .iso file so fw cannot be upgraded in Magician software, only on bootable CD right? Is it worth upgrading the firmware considering i've not had any problems on my 830 256gb SSD?

 

I think you can flash the firmware using Windows flashing utility in Samsung magician for 830, if you feel you don't need flashing just skip but find out what the new firmware fixes. Chapter3 in this link will be helpful for flashing:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c.../Magician_Software_User_Manual_Ver.3.1_EN.pdf

 

Download firmware and Magician software. Extract firmware zip file to folder.

Install and select firmware update form Magician software.

Select update using windows and then select FW extracted folder. After that follow on-screen instructions.

If it's successful massage will popup or you'll get BSOD.

Shut-down your system (Not Restart)

Make sure Anti-Virus is disabled.

 

My antivirus (MSE) wasn't disabled but I got BSOD (tried 2 times), and even after a shutdown, it was the old FW I got - so basically no update.

 

after i unpack the .iso firmware file, i get a directory called "isolinux" with these files:

btdsk.img
isolinux.bin
isolinux.cfg
memdisk

Which is the actual firmware file which i need to select in Magician? There is no zip file, just an .iso file from samsung's website.

 

I get the same, have you tried Windows utility by selecting your drive and directing to the folder where your .iso image downloaded in Samsung magician?
You could also try burning the .iso image on a CD or DVD and boot with it as you have mentioned in your initial post(completely ignoring Samsung Magician)
EDIT: My assumption was, the windows utility should find the needed files from the image and flash in Samsung Magician.

EDIT: Don't flash the Firmware, it seems there's a problem with it. So wait for a while until Samsung sort this out.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1199062/warning-samsung-830-firmware-update-bugged

 

Wow...Samsung joins the club! I have been flip flopping between the Crucial M4 and Samsung 830. Now I have to wait on TWO firmware fixes to see which one will survive.

 

i got bsod and when windows restarted, BIOS didn't detect the drive, but cold boot solved the issue.

 

Not exactly. 830 is flawless without the new firmware, it's just fixes some small stuff. So you are not forced to upgrade it, you can just wait until they release a fixed one.

 

Gonna wait to see what Samsung does. I am not really in a hurry...the 830 is going to replace my Intel 320 series drive...I really wanted to enjoy the SATA III speed of it, where HP gives you the Intel when you purchase SSD as an option. Nice drive, but SATA II.

 

The Samsung UK replied me today. Basically they guaranteed that this is covered by warranty, and they are aware the problem. They will release a fix as soon as possible. They experience people briciking the drive, others like me, who first failed then succeeded.

Btw., it's working like a charm for me since.

 

I guess i'm one of the lucky few....

 

I'm really pleased for you both adrianu and bigspin on your successful update, however. this is not a big issue and I believe Samsung will handle this in a professional manner.

 

I would really appreciate honest opinions. Currently I have the Intel 320 series SSD. My HP Envy 17 3D has SATA III capabilities...so with the Samsung 830 drive...I can see full capabilities. HP chooses to stay with Intel for, I am sure, stabiity purposes...but it costs the machine some throughput. Here are my Crystal Disk Mark scores on the 320. Will I see an appreciable increase (something that I can feel?) rather than synthetic benchmarks?

Thanks

Bob

And yes...I am convinced that Samsung 830 is the way to go if I upgrade...I like the Magician software and it's capabilities....much like the Intel toolbox.

My primary thought...Put in Samsung as OS drive and move 320 to D bay, replacing 750 GB HDD. Then two SSD's can work together and really rock this puppy...

 

@Bobmitch
Honestly ... biggest change anyone see is HDD -> SSD (even type does not matter that much). 320's are quite capable ones. Sadly but this time you might not "feel" the difference, if You transfer large files a lot - then maybe SATA 3 throughput be beneficial, but in most cases difference between 320 and 830 will not be seen "with naked eye" in same manner as switch from HDD to SSD.

 

10 char

 

I had the attached Samsung SLC 32 GB SSD for a long time. I switched to a Samsung 830 128 GB 2 weeks ago. Honestly, the real world speed is kinda similar for both drives. I am not sure if I could tell the difference blindly.

Apart from this, the 830 is a pretty good drive.

 

^^ Congrats

 

Gonna save my pennies for the time being. The Intel 320 is my C drive and I have a 750 GB 7200 rpm Hitachi as my D drive for data, games, etc. I am thinking that down the road, add the 830 256GB as my OS / App drive and move the 320 to D. That ought to make a difference...no?

 

Me too... I did the windows update using the latest version of Magician. No problems so far. I wonder what the difference is?

 

is this SSD any good????????

tell me which to buy this or patriot wildfire.

 

ok here we go

HP DV6T QUAD

i7-2720qm
16GB 1333 RAM
1GB GDDR5 HD6770M 1080p (oc to 800/900 from 725/800)

Samsung 830 SATAIII 128GB SSD (rated 520/320/80kiops/30kiops)

3dmark06
11354

3DMark Vantage
3dmarks 7556
Graphics 6518
CPU 14458

3dmark11
3dmarks P1656
Graphics 1478
Physics 5586
Combined 1443

pcmarkvantage
12936

pcmark7
3884

wei
7.4 | 7.6 | 7.0 | 7.0 | 7.9

 

Should i go for wildfire patriot orr this

 

Go with this. I advice you to avoid sandforce based drives.

 

That, even though most of the issues they had seem to be fixed, they have a pretty bumpy track record as far as reliability goes compared to other SSDs.