The ThrottleStop Guide

@alakes - There are several power limits and unfortunately, ThrottleStop does not have access to all of them. There is another set of power limits that can be accessed via the memory mapped IO. Use RW Everything to access the duplicate PL1 and PL2 registers here.



Both limits in the pic are set to 8100 which decodes to 8 for the enable bit and 100 hex = 256 decimal
256 / 8 = 32 Watts so both limits are set to 32 watts for this example. This is the typical format for most recent Core i CPUs. Apollo Lake might have these limits in something other than 1/8 Watt units or they might be located somewhere else. The format should be the same as the limits in MSR 0x610.

Your device might be using the memory mapped IO limits or it could be something else that has set a 6 Watt limit. Intel made life difficult for enthusiasts. Post a pic if you get beyond 6W.

A value of 00000000 usually means these limits are not being used.

 

@unclewebb - It doesn't look like there's anything mapped there:



Where does this address come from? Could it be somewhere else? Any pattern to search for?

Edit: I found this guide but the address points to the same place:



There are only 0s in there.

Edit2: The documentation is not publicly available either. There's even one document called "Addendum for Tuning Registers". Sigh.

 

@unclewebb master mighty unclewebb (btw I'll be donating to you again in the future even though I'm nowhere near as cool or popular as Master @Papusan or Mr. Fox
I also have something strange in my 00000000FED15900 memory area.
At address A0, there is a value 00010000. Nothing in the next field however. I have no idea what 00010000 even means. I'm pretty sure the MSI GT73VR doesn't use MMIO power limits, but I was "bored" and tried to see what was there It's not important; I was just curious. Any idea what that value means at that A0 offset ?

 

@alakes - It looks like Apollo Lake is mapped completely different compared to most of the Core i family.

After booting up, before running ThrottleStop, have a look at MSR 0x610. Try having a look through the MMIO space and see if you can find anything that looks similar to that. Without any documentation, it is definitely looking for a needle in a haystack. Now that I think about it, Apollo Lake goes up in steps of 1/256 so a 6 watt limit should show xxxx8600. The first 4 digits contain information about the time limit. The last 4 digits are the important ones. The 8 is the enable bit so that one will definitely be set if this is used.

@Falkentyne - No need for more donations. I have some money in the purse to buy some more hardware to feed my addiction. Maybe tonight! I will put a blanket over it at home. Who will ever know.

I do not have MMIO documentation. Bit[16] is the Clamp bit in the power limits register, MSR 0x610 so that might be the same in the MMIO. If you want to play, set the next 4 digits to 8100 like I did. This is equivalent to a 32 Watt limit. Run TS Bench and see what sort of multiplier you get and what Limit Reasons has to say. You might have to go for an even lower limit like 8080 for 16 Watts. If that is the Clamp bit, the multi should throttle to keep the CPU from exceeding the power limit that you set. If Clamp is not set, it should only throttle off all of the turbo boost and leave the multi at its default value. Might have to go play with this myself.

Edit - Yep, it is the Clamp bit. When that bit is set, my CPU is being clamped to a maximum of 16.0 Watts. If I disable that bit, the multiplier jumps up to 24 which is the default multiplier.

 

Yep it worked 32W power limit instantly (PL1 throttling) on TS Bench

 

That was an awesome post - thanks @unclewebb !

It seems that Uncle Webb's "Unsuitable" 7500U vastly outperforms my "High Quality" 6300HQ. He runs Prime95 or LinX at 25% faster speeds-way above what the marketing specs sell me. What is happening here?

A. 7500U has 2 cores, 4 threads (turbo 3.5, base 2.7GHz) with 15W TDP.
>>>Uncle Webb runs 4 threads (28 Watts displayed) at 3.5GHz

B. 6300HQ has 4 cores (turbo 3.2, base 2.2GHz) with 45W TDP.
>>>I run 4 cores (37 Watts displayed) at 2.8GHz

Like Uncle Webb, I tweaked the TDP in ThrottleStop and via FED159A0 & A4 but that did not make a difference (tried 50 W, 55W and 65W). I am nowhere near thermal throttling and no flags (well except IA: Max Turbo Limit).

So I think what happened was Uncle Webb's Lenovo hid some nice performance in two ways:

1. Lenovo and Intel allowed the 7500U somehow to run at max turbo for all 4 threads (3.5GHz)
---Dell and Intel crippled the 6300HQ for 4 core operation (2.8GHz)

2. The 7500U TDP of 15W is similar to 6300HQ TDP of 45W
-- Lenovo 7500U can be boosted to 28W whilst Dell 6300HQ is stuck at 37W

Another question - assuming both chips can drop wattage use by 1/3 by undervolting, the only real benefits are reduced power consumption, reduced heat (potentially preventing throttling). For power users with well cooled machines (via repasting, Milwaulkee Hole Dozer mods, etc), is it fair to say that extra power/thermal overhead should be available for overclocking but is wasted as that option is only availble on certain chips (e.g. K)?

I suppose @Papusan might call this ugly child from Dell a JokeBook...

 

You said it yourself... <the only real benefits are reduced power consumption, reduced heat (potentially preventing or reduce throttling in heavy load - if this is the normal behavior)> for fully locked down cpu.

 

@unclewebb
How to change timer resolution from 5.0 ms to 15.625 ms? Why ThrottleStop requests that resolution? As I know, this isn't good for power savings.

 

I think its MSFT's new update increased the timer to mitigate Spectre and Meltdown exploits.
Let me check it on my PC.

 

some lenovo y720 user here?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

Open up the Options window and make sure AC Timer Res is set to 16. Click on OK and then open up the Options window again and see what your Timer Resolution is set to. It should show 15.625 ms. If it does not show this then you have some other program on your computer that has lowered the timer resolution. Is this a bad thing? Not really. It could be any program running on your computer. Some internet browsers used to do this to smooth things out. It does not grossly interfere with C State residency time and it does not make a huge difference in power consumption. Those were scary stories from the old days. 15.625 ms might have been a reasonable time slice back when Windows 95 was running on a 25 MHz computer but a lot has changed since then.

I added this feature to ThrottleStop because setting this to 1 can eliminate some stuttering issues while gaming. There are some badly written drivers that can cause hitching or stuttering. Even though your frame rate might show a steady number, your video or game might not be very smooth. Changing this Windows setting can help.

When the power limits are lifted, the 7500U is a beast. I think Apple sells U CPUs and they have a 28 Watt TDP limit. Most of the junk books that @Papusan hates only use U CPUs with a meager 15 Watt TDP limit.

Check out the specs for a Core i7-7567U. 28 Watts and a peak turbo speed of 4.00 GHz.

https://ark.intel.com/products/97541/Intel-Core-i7-7567U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-4_00-GHz

Now the question is, why are all the manufacturers that are building Windows computers not able to get their hands on this CPU? There would be a lot less complaints about knee capped performance if Intel would start sharing the good stuff of the U series. Are all the Windows manufacturers too dumb or too cheap? Is an extra dollar or two for an adequate heatsink to cool this U too much for their budget computers?

 

The 28 Watt U CPU's have Iris Graphics, so they had to up the TDP from 15W to handle that on load.

 

This link will let you understand more why lower timer resolution is harmful
https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/windows-timer-resolution-megawatts-wasted/

 

Hey, I have an acer swift 3 with an i5 8250U, and this thing is an astoundingly powerful CPU, except it power limit throttles under max load for more than ~20 seconds, after monitoring it with coretemp during a prime95 test. After that, it stays locked down at 15w and 2-2.5 ghz instead of full 3.4 Ghz Turbo and 30-40w. Is there any way to change the PL1 setting with throttlestop so this doesn't occur? Or am I out of luck without access to the advanced BIOS?

Just to be clear, this is not due to thermal limitations, but artificial power limit constraints (The CPU is typically around 60-70C with max load under turbo before it throttles)
Thanks for the help!

Edit:
So after following the instructions detailed below, I was able ti change the power limit for my 8250U, and it actually worked! It's allowed the processor to achieve a Cinebench score of 720, up from 505 - an increase of 40% from its stock settings. Now I just need to figure out how to set this memory address through restarts. Thanks for the information, unclewebb!
These new Kaby Lake-U quad cores are insane if you can remove their power limits- Desktop performance on small mobile.

 

So you unlocked it with MSR power limits! Nice!
I wonder if @Vistar Shook is having the same issue with his eVGA. I sent him a PM...hope he replies.
Would be wonderful if the same thing worked for him.

 

On my machine the PL1 limit entry says 00181E0...so 60W and PL2 is disabled. But when I change the value it reverts back. I can put a value for PL2 and it will stick, but it won't work in practice. Unfortunately, the power limits can't be changed in the Bios and neither in MMIO.
https://imgur.com/ThKA6Ew

 

Just for reference, in my laptop, i5-4200U, using all techniques, Throttlestop(UnderVolt + PowerCut + max. CPU/GPU balance) + FED159A0 settings, can run steadily, already 15 mins, up to 29.5W, with max. CPU/GPU frequency, 100% load, without speed limit by any Power Limit.

 

@unclewebb - No luck with the searches, I can't find anything that looks remotely like the TDP limit regs, even searching for individual bytes. Can you tell me where this value comes from?:



It is not in any of the registers I'm aware of.

 

@unclewebb !
I found out the value at dword register 30 at FED15900 is the actual TDP of your processor!
Yours shows 47W there. Is this raw TDP or some base power limit?

But writing to this field instantly gets reverted

 

Could anyone point me to a guide on how to use commands with RWeverything to create a file to run on startup? Had no luck with my googling.. :/
Thanks

 

Here you go. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-564 [#5634], I also quoted to below for your quick reference,

 

Why ThrottleStop 8.50 have an Expiry date ?
-> Expiry date extended to January 2019

Have never found a Freeware Version
with a Expiry date. Shareware ok I Understood,
But Freeware ? Have now found a Solution
for never Ending Use, for me.

Why not a Splash Screen with:
"Please Update Now my Software It's a long Time ago
Next Update with new Features is coming to you certainly."
--> But the program continues to work. Look on Winrar

Thank You Mr. Unclewebb for this Great Tool.
This is the only Cpu Throttling Tool it is working for me.

 

Thank you! Worked like a charm, got it configured to set memory whenever I log on, even from sleep. Nice having a laptop with effectively an i7-7700HQ! .

 

No worries. ThrottleStop 8.60 will not expire. I will release the new version next week or next month. Not sure exactly when but a long time before TS 8.50 expires. Old versions of ThrottleStop expire because they were compiled with a C++ compiler that is almost 20 years old. I finally had time to switch ThrottleStop 8.60 to a much newer version of Visual Studio and I also had time to fix a couple of long time ThrottleStop bugs. ThrottleStop 8.60 will be FREE and there will be no more expiring versions. That will make everyone happy.

@alakes - The method I use to figure out the default TDP is a little bit complicated. It is explained in the public documentation.

MSR_RAPL_POWER_UNIT 0x606
MSR_PKG_POWER_INFO 0x614

You read the TDP data from MSR 0x614 and then you have to convert that number into Watts based on what units are in MSR 0x606. The units a Pentium N4200 uses are a little different than what most Core i CPUs use. As far as I know, both of these MSRs are read only so you cannot make any changes to these registers to change your TDP. Intel lists the N4200 at a TDP of 6W so it looks like ThrottleStop is reading this correctly.

https://ark.intel.com/products/95592/Intel-Pentium-Processor-N4200-2M-Cache-up-to-2_5-GHz

 

Yeah, it's there. Units seem to be 1/256 watts. Writing to it bluescreens with a system service exception. I tried accessing the MSR_CONFIG_TDP* registers but everything bluescreens (even just reading). The PP0/PP1 limit regs are no go either.

 

You're awesome... Thank you so much for everything !

 

Is setting Minimum processor state to 100% in Windows power plan option still required with latest Throttlestop version? Any other settings requiring modification for correct Throttlestop functionality?

 

It depends on the CPU and what ThrottleStop features you are using. The above recommendation only applied to the Set Multiplier feature. If you have a modern CPU that supports Speed Shift and you are using that feature, that Windows power plan setting probably will not make any difference. Do some testing and post some more info and some pics if you are not sure.

 

@unclewebb thank you!

I have i5-6200u, and enabled Speedshift in Throttlestop. The system behaves strangely after adjusting TDP. In XTU, I am able to increase TDP to 20-something but it doesn't hold, looks like silently reverts back to stock 15W in 10 minutes or so, without any notifications or anything; in TS, increasing TDP does not seem to do anything - while new TDP is reported correctly in TS itself and Intel Power Gadget, it doesn't affect CPU's behavior in any way.

Spoiler: TS settings

 

Make sure XTU service is stopped and set to manual when using TS. BTW, your short pkg power is 25W which is really good to see.

Spoiler: TS settings

View attachment 154045
Uncheck Speedstep & BDPROCHOT.


View attachment 154043
Normally I don't undervolt iGPU at all instead undervolt System agent and analog IO. And if you're seeing strange issues after resuming from sleep or resuming from hibernation then check off, Use default cache ratio during standby.
View attachment 154044
Uncheck Clamp option and see if can you change PP0 turbo time limit to 8 or more.
if you want max cpu performance then tweak Intel Power balance with CPU set to 31 and GPU to 9 or 11. If you use only iGPU then set GPU value to 15, 17 or 21 whichever gives you max CPU and GPU perf.

 

@Starlight5 - There are multiple power limits. On some devices, using ThrottleStop to change the TDP limits might not accomplish anything. It all depends on what limits the manufacturer has decided to enforce. Your last Limit Reasons picture that shows EDP Other in red is not good. That means the CPU is throttling because it has reached the Electrical Design Point limit which is different than the PL1 and PL2 power limits. Raising PL1 and PL2 cannot be used to solve EDP Other throttling. That might be why Intel XTU craps out after 10 minutes.

In the Turbo Power Limits window try checking the TDP Level Control option and setting that to either 0 or 2. No need to check the Lock option. Sadly, there is probably not a lot you are going to be able to do to solve this problem.

 

@Kocane I've been reading today an article about storage and battery life in portable computers... and I remembered your issue with the SSD drive.
You may be interested to read this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/notebook-battery-life-storage,5152.html

 

@unclewebb @Vasudev thank you both.

I applied default profile and uninstalled XTU before starting with TS.

Unchecked Speedstep, kept BDprochot.

Did it, not sure if something changed.

Will experiment with that a bit later.

What I see when using TS is iGPU frequency gets stuck on 0.95GHz and that's when EDP Other starts ringing. It doesn't happen immediately, after some heavy load, but it seems that iGPU doesn't want to go lower for some reason, with GPU Util% at less than 1% according to Intel Power Gadget. Before this situation occurs, TS reports the CPU is hitting PL1. On battery, iGPU frequency goes to 0.45GHz, but whenever I plug the laptop back to outlet, iGPU goes to 0.95GHz again and stays there. Before this whole situation occured I had CPU hitting PL1, by the way.

Without Throttlestop active (after clean shutdown), I get higher temps and iGPU frequency jumps all around under combined CPU&GPU load, but iGPU has no problem returning to lower frequencies after load.

Update: it seems merely launching TS, even with ini file deleted, makes the iGPU frequency stuck at 0.95GHz when connected to power source. \=

 

@Starlight5 Your iGPU works at 1GHz memory freq. according to Intel ARK https://ark.intel.com/products/88193/Intel-Core-i5-6200U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_80-GHz

 

Been using Throttlestop for 4 days now and it worked fine until it won't open up in windows 10 anymore. I used it to undervolt my 7700HQ chip and even if I haven't been able to open throttlestop, my undervolt profile is still active when I checked in CPUID HWMonitor. Everytime I try to open it, "Could not open WinRing0.dll ". What seems to be the problem? Does this mean I cannot remove my undervolt profile anymore?

 

@Savitar - If ThrottleStop is not starting up then it is not setting your voltages. Windows 10 has a Hybrid shutdown feature that can cause problems. If the bios does not reset the CPU voltages like it is supposed to do, try holding down the Shift key on the keyboard and then while holding that, select Shut down in the start menu. This will bypass the Hybrid shutdown and should force your CPU to reset itself.

What antivirus program are you using? Windows Defender? Some antivirus program or Windows itself will sometimes flag the WinRing0 driver and prevent it from starting up. This has not happened to me in recent memory so I am not sure how to solve this problem. What specific version of Windows 10 are you using? I am running Windows 10 Build 16299.192 and the free version of Avast without any issues running ThrottleStop.

 

I'm currently using Bitdefender Total Security. I've installed the antivirus first before downloading throttlestop. It was working for 4 days even if I've had multiple scans and updates with the antivirus. My windows version is the same as yours. It only stopped working when I was overclocking my GPU and when it crashed from running heaven benchmark, which had to do a restart. After that, I tried opening throttlestop and that pop message started showing up.

 

@Savitar - Thanks for explaining what triggered the WinRing0 issue on your computer. That makes me think that it is something in Windows that is causing this. Perhaps a list of bad drivers stored somewhere in the registry. Once a driver is on that list, Windows blocks it from being opened. As far as I know, this is not just a Windows 10 problem. I am pretty sure it used to randomly happen in Windows 7 too. If I can ever find a way to recreate this problem, I will see if there is a way to fix it.

Try running OpenHardwareMonitor. With that program running, try starting ThrottleStop and see if that makes a difference.

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/

It also uses the WinRing0 driver but it hides this driver within its own driver.

 

This fix worked! And hopefully it would remain stable in the future. I opened openhardwaremonitor once then ran throttlestop. Now throttlestop can run without having to open openhardwaremonitor. Thank you for the assistance. I am more fond of using throttlestop than XTU since it's simpler and XTU seems buggy because it resets my profile after shutting down and opening it up again.

 

OK, I am absolutely positively sure that merely launching Throttlestop, without applying any settings, even if ini file is deleted - causes my iGPU frequency to get stuck at higher frequency (950MHz on AC/450MHz on Battery) - and nothing I tried except shutdown cycle helps iGPU go lower. Should I forget about using TS on this machine altogether, or maybe there is something I should try to fix this problem?

 

You are probably right. The original purpose of ThrottleStop, as the name suggests, was to stop throttling and make the CPU and GPU run as fast as possible. It was not until later on that users started finding other uses for this program. Like all software, ThrottleStop is a compromise and it is not surprising that it favors performance over power consumption, especially when plugged in.

I have no idea what code in ThrottleStop is causing your iGPU to run at 950 MHz. For comparison, the HD 4600 iGPU in my 4700MQ runs pegged at 1150 MHz while plugged in.



I am pretty sure it does this whether I am using ThrottleStop or not but I will double check just to make sure. I also leave the CPU MHz pegged as fast as it can go, even when idle. My iGPU temperature is fine and power consumption is fine so the reported GPU MHz is not something that has caused me any sleepless nights. When idle, the CPU cores should be spending 99% of their time in C7 at 0 MHz and 0 Volts so I imagine the iGPU is doing something similar when it has nothing to do. The reported iGPU MHz might not be that important. Are you noticing anything negative like sky high idle temperatures or power consumption issues?

If ThrottleStop is not improving the performance of your laptop or doing anything useful for you then I agree, do not use it.

Thanks @Savitar for trying the OpenHardwareMonitor fix. That was easy, especially compared to having to reinstall Windows. WinRing0 has a few bugs and is no longer being maintained but it is the only option I have to access the necessary CPU registers.

Edit - I rebooted and did not start ThrottleStop. While using the Windows High Performance profile, my iGPU was pegged at 1150 MHz just like above. When I switched to the Balanced profile, it dropped down to 600 MHz.



Without the under volt, my slower GPU is running slightly hotter than before. I could try under volting without using ThrottleStop or XTU but for my iGPU, there is not going to be any significant temperature or power consumption difference whether it is running at 600 MHz or 1150 MHz. Thank you Lenovo for using some common sense when setting the iGPU speed when plugged in.

 

@unclewebb thank you very much for checking your machine! I use Balanced profile only; the difference for me is that when GPU is pegged at 0.95GHz, the fan runs all the time, which is annoying on a mostly silent machine.

I managed to resolve the problem by turning off Monitoring in TS, then resetting the CPU. Sadly the mere fact TS monitoring was on triggered iGPU frequency lock which didn't go until CPU was reset. Now all seems to work without any problem.

With SpeedShift enabled & Speedstep disabled, my CPU seems to be changing its frequency at low loads much more often than before, I assume it is expected behavior?

 

Is it a Lenovo laptop? I have seen Lenovo downlocks the iGPU/dGPU clocks much lower than earlier BIOS(es)
Is the iGPU running in balanced mode in Intel CP?

 

@Vasudev yes, it's a Thinkpad. GPU is running in Balanced mode. I don't notice any gimping except for the fact Lenovo could give this machine 25W cTDP instead of 15W.

 

Open MSI Afterburner and set the clocks yourself.

 

@Vasudev it has iGPU only...

 

do you have locked sliders in AB?
edit: Is it T series TP?

 

Everything is locked in MSI Afterburner.

Thinkpad Yoga 260.

 

I got this techpowerup gpu db, it says memory freq. must match installed system memory spec. https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2783/hd-graphics-520

 

@unclewebb just want to say thank you very much for you awesome work.. Hope you won't stop yout project as this is a life saver program.. keep up the good job.. Also thanks to @Papusan @Vasudev and @VICKYGAMEBOY for helping me out with my laptop using your TS.. thanks thanks thanks..