The ThrottleStop Guide

I think it's worth noting that after applying the BCLK OC my Undervolt was not stable at all, I had to give it back some mV so my TS Benches weren't erroring out.

 

This is normal as you need more voltage to support higher cpu freq.

 

Do you think more "Uncore" is necessary as well to keep the RAM OC stable?

 

Presumably yes. But in memory OC, voltage of System Agent plays role, so rise it for 50mV at start and test.

For example on my old kaby 7700hq that has 2400MHz controler I need to add something like 140mV to even boot and get stable with oc from 2666MHz CL 19 spd profile to 3200 CL16 custom timing

Someone said here that the same amount of added voltage should be set in bios in uncore.
Uncore (BIOS) = System Agent (ThrottleStop) I think

 

Thank you, unclewebb, for reviewing the log files...

I know some about CPU throttling, but this is really new for me, thanks to clear that up...

I have done that, I did not see TS showing the "Monitoring" text in the title bar.

Frankly, I have seen the "Mod" column decreases its value before, but I did not pay much attention to its purpose. I have also seen that all threads drops to the same percentage so I guess modulation throttling applied to all threads at the same time. After I set the Clock Modulation to 100, I did not see any change to the Mod column, all the time 100 for all thread. Thanks to you, I did not notice much throttling except when I increase the load on the GPU, by increasing the graphic setting of the game I was playing, just for the test purpose. I have to say though that I have encountered PSOD (or BSOD with a pink background) with error IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL. I only get it once and only when I increased the GPU load.

Yeah, it helps a lot, so far so good. the log file in the link below:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ACSzS4Fo6In6DzM4XeL92gQJBJ0K4gGL/view?usp=sharing

Yes, I use the Dell power adapter that the laptop came with and it is 130W.

 

This is a common throttling scheme that Dell started using on their laptops with Core 2 Duo processors. That was more than 10 years ago. I am sure that a lot of large companies that religiously buy Dell laptops with this clock modulation throttling problem have got burned over the years. I always thought there might be some sort of class action lawsuit because of this problem but nothing to my knowledge so far.

I just wanted to check because I know using non Dell power adapters can cause severe throttling issues. Imagine a car company that forced you to buy all replacement parts from them and only them. Want to buy an XYZ spark plug for your car? Sure, that is fine but because it is not an OEM spark plug, we have decided to throttle the performance of your engine down to 25% of its rated performance. A lawsuit would quickly follow. In the world of computers, manufacturers get away with stuff like this.

That is good to hear. Another Dell laptop saved from Dell's hidden throttling schemes. Your log file looks much better. The CPU and Nvidia GPU are both running consistently.

You should never see a BSOD. If you are under volting your CPU or GPU and you see a BSOD, you have probably gone too far. This is usually your CPU or GPU telling you that it needs more voltage.

 

I see... I will reset it again properly. Thanks, unclewebb.

If I may ask again, I wonder why am I getting constantly yellow "EDP OTHER" under the RING with TS configuration enabled or disabled? If I try to clear, it comes back in a second or less. This happens all the time with PC under load or idle.

My TS settings can be found in the post (page 1183) of the above quote if you want to refer to them.

 

That one is hyper sensitive so it being constantly yellow is not unusual.

You only need to be concerned if you have an actual throttling problem. When your CPU is loaded and performance is decreasing and boxes in Limit Reasons are lighting up in red like a Christmas tree, that is a problem. If you have a problem like this, turn on the Log File option in ThrottleStop and create a record of your CPU's performance. Attach this record to your next post and I will be happy to have a look at this data. I like seeing numbers.

The last log file you posted shows that your CPU and GPU are running great. There are no further problems that need to be solved.

 

Noted...thanks again, unclewebb.

 

@unclewebb , Thank you for your program first and foremost.

I have a question:

It's a bit mysterious to me what settings are actually saved / applied in the profile in regards to 'Turn on/off' and 'Safe'.

Are settings under 'C10' button saved under a profile for instance?

 

Me too.

For most recent CPUs, there is rarely a need to use the Turn On - Turn Off button. This button is not part of the individual profile settings. When you start ThrottleStop, whatever state this button was previously set to will be used again. If your CPU supports C10, you will probably have no use for the Turn On - Turn Off button. Search this thread if you need to know what this button does.

The options in the C States window can be saved for each individual profile.

Do some hands on testing. That is the best way to learn ThrottleStop.

 

Hello,I've been using Throttlestop for some years but never talked about it online.Not long ago I bought my new laptop,it comes with 9750H so in the last months I changed,tested and researched almost every setting in Throttlestop and finally my expectations were met.I noted all these settings,tested on a couple of laptops and finally made a guide.You can check it out here, https://www.theviciousgames.com/windows-gaming/throttlestop-guide.
Thanks for this great piece of software!

 

@tuly - Impressive results. 3258 is great Cinebench R20 score for a 9750H.

When using the Task Scheduler, I suggest setting up the Conditions tab similar to what I have recommended.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

The "Stop if computer switches to battery power" option causes a lot of problems for users. Even when grayed out, that option is still active in your guide. That box needs to be clear.

 

3258 is in the top 5 of fastest 9750h cpus worldwide. Really impressive.

 

@unclewebb Thank you for letting me know,I will update it as soon as I can!

@seanwee Thanks,you could try it too and let me know your results.My BIOS is locked unfortunately so Throttlestop is the only thing that helped me achieving this.

 

@unclewebb was tsbench changed on version 9.0?

I just downloaded it and transferred my profiles over and it's consistently longer to complete a run of tsbench on version 9.0

In 8.74 I got ~86 seconds and in 9.0 I got ~94 seconds

 

9.0 is complied with newer Visual so I think this is the reason. There is just 9% perf hit in this bench.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1171#post-11022380

 

Hi @amihail91, your Intel ME OC profile method - can it be done without ch341a? if yes, do you have any links/instructions to replicate what you did?

 

Unfortunately no if your Flash Descriptor region is not unlocked. You can check this by trying to flash a full image with FPT - it'll error out on the first section.

 

I can flash with FPT. Running a slightly modified insydeh2o bios with hidden options shown.

 

Nice! Then all you need is Flash Imaging Tool from here: https://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html

Next, dump your current chips contents with FPT then open it in FIT with the correct Chipset settings along the top. Add in a extra Profile under Integrated Clock Controller with the Profile Type "OverClockingExt" then build the image and reflash with FPT. I recommend doing this from an EFI shell.

 

hmm. got that done, went to flash and had a warning about 'ME' from FPT. Swore I had the re-flash enabled (followed the oc skylake pdf) in bios. Turns out that bios lets me set the option, but flicks it back to disabled afterwards. Guessing its got that region FD locked. I think I saw your post asking about the same behaviour over at win-raid. Did you manage to resolve in software it or did you go the hardware programmer route?

 

Hi, I have a Dell XPS 9570 with i9 processor. Is it still best to leave Throttlestop in monitoring?

Seems to slow things up when turned on.

 

Throttlestop working its magic nicely, keeping my i5-8600 at around a constant 4.2ghz (with a small bclk OC via dsanke bios on my P870DM) .

Just a shame nobody had yet figured out a way to pass the 103mhz bclk limit for non K (post skylake).

I had my hopes that an ME firmware mod would do the trick.

 

I think we would need to completly disable the igpu I think

 

I feel like that requirement would not be an issue, as the Clevo p870dm doesn't utilise the igpu (mxm port wired direct to display, no mux).

In fact I think by default the igpu is disabled on this machine.

Must be a way to get past the artificial limit Intel set for bclk on non-k CPUs.

Even desktops experience the limit.

 

Hardware programmer only bud. "ifdtool" in Linux is what I used to unlock the registers.

This "artificial limit" you speak of is in the CPU microcode afaik - too deep for me to understand lol.

 

You must be right, maybe if I had free time at some point I should churn through every suitable coffee lake microcode version in case one had a bug.

 

https://github.com/platomav/MCExtractor

Here has a nice collection of microcode updates.

 

darn. oh well. bought an spi programmer and cable off ebay, should arrive within 2 weeks.

 

I thought my unlocked bios ram OC menu wasn’t working but it was and it’s just that my ram has almost no give for even slight OC. Haven’t tried any timings but so far I can only get it to boot by keeping stock ratio but enabling odd qclk. So 2666->2800 so far. It’ll probably fare better if I had matching dimms but I don’t think It’s worth it as I won’t see real world benefits. Mine currently are a team group dimm a crucial dimm. Both have chips from micron but I can’t find out what specific die type the team group dimm uses. My bios has limited option - either run stock 1.2v or bump up to 1.35v, not too keen on 1.35 for daily use and batt life.

 

So my laptop reaches 99º while playing. Yeah its bad, its repasted + undervolted.
The thing is, I just noticed temps are low now (as in right now, Im playing), not reaching 80º and cpu is running at max 3,9 Ghz (i7 8750h)
Both MSI Afterburner and TS are showing power limit (in TS PL2 and Other flashing yellow/red).
I thought when reaching power limit , clocks downclocked?
How can I know what is triggering this? How do I replicate this? I havent changed TS settings in months.

 

Clocks do down clock when you reach a power limit. If the CPU is running right at the throttle limit, the amount the clocks go down is going to be very subtle. On screen game data might not show anything. Best to turn on the ThrottleStop log file option while gaming. Once you are finished gaming, exit the game and exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. Attach it to your next post so I can have a look. The default log folder is ThrottleStop / Logs.

Software updates and changes are endless. It is impossible to guess what might have changed on your computer during the last few months. Hopefully a log file will provide some clues. Also post some ThrottleStop screenshots so I can see what your settings are.

 

I did more tests, and I'm dropping frames. Also way lower score in cinebench.

I dunno why Im still power limited, gonna try restarting.
But I wish there was a middle term.

Im uploading 2 files, the lastest one has the power throttle, and the game test was started at:

2020-07-08 19:42:12 22.00 100.0 100.0 100.0 0 46 1.1852 9.0


And here are some screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/7QZZvY0

 

@Temp1234453 - I had a look in your log files and the data is only being updated once per minute. If you are using the Stop Data feature, click on the Start Data button so you can get some proper monitoring going on again. If you are using an older version of ThrottleStop, go into the Options window and turn on GPU monitoring and check the Add Limit Reasons to Log File box. Newer versions of ThrottleStop do not have that option because this data is added to the log file automatically.

When running Cinebench R20, open up Limit Reasons. It will show you the reason why your CPU is throttling. Take a screenshot of Cinebench, ThrottleStop and Limit Reasons while throttling is in progress.

Some users with the 8750H and 9750H are seeing improved Cinebench results by leaving the cache at about -125 mV and increasing the core as far as -200 mV. This can improve temps or improve performance by reducing throttling.

You have your long term turbo power limit set to 45W. The 8750H cannot achieve maximum performance when it is limited to 45W.

 

I didnt notice TS version is 9.0 now, updated it.
I changed 45 power max to 65.
The reason I didnt do -200mv on core, is that even if cache was set to -130 ( estable undervolt for both cache/core), Overwatch, which is very sensible to uc/oc crashed from time to time. But gonna give it a try again, anyways.

 

The cache is the limiting factor. Best to back the cache off a little and then see how far you can go with the core.

Use Cinebench R20 for testing. It is consistent and you can closely watch ThrottleStop for CPU speed and any throttling.

 

I was playing GTA V with -200mv and core and 65 long power max just fine (applied te settings wile I was already ingame iirc), I open Blizzard launcer and bam, crash.
Restarted ,and few seconds in, BSOD again. Win32kbase.sys.
I think -200mv makes my system crash while on not full load.

 

So you ran a variety of benchmarks as you slowly reduced the core voltage or...

Did you just jump head first into the pool? When adjusting voltages, slow and steady and lots of testing is best.

 

@Krzyslaw @amihail91 im free now, can you walk me through unlocking BCLK overclocking? and no i dont have a programmer

 

I was playing around with the PKG Demotion and PKG Undemotion flags the other day, and here's what I saw. I have a Thinkpad P1 running a Core i7-8850H.

If I was running on battery, at idle, with PKG Demotion and PGK Undemotion both checked, I saw Package C States mostly concentrated in C2, C3, C6, and C9.

Under those same conditions, if I had PKG Demotion unchecked (only Undemotion was checked) then I saw the Package C States sit in C2, C3, C8, and C9.

So it seems that, at least on my CPU, checking PKG Demotion appears to cause the CPU to favor C6 (and C7) over C8. If I disabled PKG Demotion, C6 and C7 were basically never used, they were always sitting at 0.

I don't recall what happened when I had both Demotion and Undemotion unchecked.

The question then, of course, is does this make any noticeable difference? And to that I have no idea. The PGK Power readings were essentially the same for both, whether C6 and C7 were being used or whether C8 was being used, it only really mattered how much C9 was being used, and those check boxes didn't seem to affect it. I did see a comment on a Linux code commit when I was Google searching about this, discussing enabling or disabling Demotion, and it seemed to be the opinion of that developer that on modern Linux, the operating system should be given whatever c-state it wants, rather than allowing the hardware to override it. This was mostly because, they suggested, the hardware might prevent the usage of deeper C-states if it's allowed C-State Demotion, thus using more power. I imagine the same probably applies to Windows 10.

Given what I saw in testing and reading that comment, my interpretation is this -- for right now, on my Battery profile I have C-State Demotion (C1, C3, and PKG) unchecked, but I left Undemotion checked. This way, assuming I understand it correctly (which I probably don't, but whatever), if the OS wants a deeper C-state than the hardware wants, it will always be granted, and if the OS requests a shallow c-state but the Hardware thinks that a deeper C-state will do, then it can still Undemote and give me the deeper c-state. I set up my Performance profile to be the exact opposite -- so theoretically the computer will run in shallower c-states wherever it thinks is appropriate, perhaps saving a few CPU cycles in the process. Of course, it only does that if it's connected to power and NOT using the discrete GPU, so it matters little, and mostly not at all.

 

Grab the Intel System Tools for your particular ME version and try and flash your full chip with FPT (FPTW64 -F yourbios.rom) let me know what errors you get if any.

 

First always make a dump of your bios

 

@seanwee i spent a good number of hours last couple of days looking up this stuff. So in case you haven't seen these already, here's some info that might help!

First off, find out your laptop ME version to get the right tools
1. Find your Intel ME version. You can find this via hwinfo > motherboard > Intel ME; alternatively you can use device manager > system devices > Intel Management Engine Interface > Firmware
2. Go to section C on this page and download the Intel system tools corresponding to your laptop installed Intel ME version https://www.win-raid.com/t596f39-Intel-Management-Engine-Drivers-Firmware-amp-System-Tools.html
3. Unzip the downloaded files

Next try dumping your bios before doing anything else
1. In an elevated cmd prompt, navigate to the unzipped intel tools folder > flash programming tool > win32/win64 (both work for me)
2. run "FPTW64 -d fulldump.bin"
3. Save fulldump.bin in a safe place. This is your full bios dump (all regions). If you get any errors at this stage, it means your bios is locked from read and you can't proceed further without bios unlock via hardware means.You can ignore any errors referring to GbE Region does not exist."
4. Test if your bios allows writes. Run "FPT64W -me -f fulldump.bin". This will attempt to re-flash just the ME region from your full bios dump. Abort if it prompts you about any errors. If you get any errors at this stage, it means your bios allows reads but has locks on the ME region (and perhaps some others, but they're not relevant to amihail's bclk trick).You can ignore any errors referring to GbE Region does not exist."

If you've gotten this far
1. navigate to Flash Image Tool in the unzipped folder and run "fit.exe".
2. Open your fulldump.bin within FIT.
3. Follow the settings in the screenshot amihail provided here for the Integrated Clock Controller tab http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1193#post-11030123
4. In the top menu go to build > build image. This will output outimage.bin in the FIT folder amongst other things. outimage.bin is the one you want
5. Flash the ME region of your bios using "FPTW64 -me -f outimage.bin". Abort if it prompts you about any warnings/errors. If you get any errors/warnings, it means your probably shouldn't proceed this way. Buy a hardware programmer and flash it via that. You can ignore any errors referring to GbE Region does not exist."
Note: This is as far as I got so far. I went through the above steps before I found out about the different bios regions and their separate locks. Got to the last step of trying to flash the modified ME .bin but then got a warning about "Warning: Unable to detect ME disabled. Do you wish to proceed with the flash write operation? <Y/N>". Did some further checks and indeed turns out that i have a partially unlocked bios i.e. i can modify and update the bios region but not the ME region.

Assuming you've gone through all the steps above, the idea is that you'd reboot and go into bios settings, go to ICC and select profile 1 (if you have these options).

*Updated* From then on you either modify bclk within bios or in xtu/throttlestop <-- this bit i'm not clear on. @amihail91 can you clarify this for us? Thanks @amihail91

Please take note: do not exceed 102.98 for bclk like @Krzyslaw mentioned a few posts ago. I believe the reason for this is Intel has some microcodes preventing non-K processors from having bclk exceeding 103 and if you do push it past that you will get odd behaviours and/or loss of certain functionality.

 

I'm doing mine at BIOS level - I'm not aware of Throttlestop having this feature at least.

If anything he said errors out, it means your Flash Descriptor is locked and you need a programmer.

 

thanks for that. updated in the post above.

 

Thanks for the exhaustive writeup!!!

I got until test flashing. Does this mean it wont work on my machine?

 

Yes, its locked.

 

I just bought a CH341A + clip for about 5 bucks shipped



This is the one right?