The new SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News and Advice)

Interesting review I just read about the Agility series, the most interesting part was that the Indilux controller is designed from ex-Samsung employees. Hmmm.

See:
http://www.ccereviews.com/reviews/ocz-technology-64gb-agility-series-sata-ii-solid-state-drive/3/

 

Now, this is a review I can't agree with. Not only is the drive not tested as a system drive, it is also 'wiped' clean in between each test benchmark (see second page). How is this of relevance to real world use?

See:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1087/1/

 

one more happy sammy user here to...
I'm going a lot of heavy utorrenting, lot of OS testing and reinstalling and lot of mulititasking, video encoding, music encoding, picture editing...you name it...
but my sammy runs same as day one, and it is really, really quick

 

I think How I understand SSD is :
When you buy new ssd it totally empty nothing is there at all
Once something is copied or once is ssd formated automaticly there are digital informations with 1 and 0 so chips are being filled with zeros and ones
So there doesn't exist something erase in ssd chips to nothing. there will be always something written .. I think It's impossible to make ssd empty all ssd is just memory and controllers to write and read in or out ..I suppose
The best thing is buy ssd install win 7 and never speculate with ssd again by reformating any checking defragmenting cleaning etc .. just let it go from just first run and leave it running in peace first instal OS and that's it . All these programs benchmarks and whatever is is designed for HDD only not for SSD ... that will be something in future ..

 

+1 on that, just like daveperman always says, "don't tweak, just enjoy ssd speed" I agree-- think you are gonna efup more than you fix tweaking.

 

every ssd should be able to do everything like every hdd, only much much faster and with less heat and less power usage...
so, you should be able to install new OS every day, you should be able to bench the hell out of it...and without the need for trim or wiper or whatever
my ssd can do that..
can your ?

 

I am returning the X-25 G2 160GB drive today and will have to wait more for the replacement, since it's not in stock at the moment.

Just to make sure that I am not doing anything wrong when I receive the replacement drive, I'll ask the following. When installing Snow Leopard, do I need to Erase (i.e., format) the drive or can I just select the drive and hit "install". All the directions I've seen in Mac forums indicated that I'll have to erase it using disk utility (Mac OS extended (journaled) option). Please note that this is not a full format; it's more like a quick format because it takes only seconds.

Sorry for the naive question, since this is my first SSD, and there seems to be a lot of information regarding what fills a drive, what's good, what's bad, etc.

Thanks!

 

Hi heh intel ssd again hm
What happened with your ssd actualy?
What you cannot perform ?

 

Please note that I am not a Mac user, but I would just hit 'Install'.

This is a fresh drive and the latest release of the Mac O/S, so if that doesn't work, what will? (And, I trust what's a 'default' install to the O/S - just like I've done the same when I've set up everything from Win 1 to Win 7.

 

8MB bug
http://communities.intel.com/message/50680

 

I'm not a Mac user, but it should work perfect one way or another.

 

That's how all my Samsung drives are. No hassle, works great just like the day I got them.
To be fair, though, that's how the Intel drive is until the 8MB bug occurs one time when I did a clean installation of Windows.

 

Yea, cause the "1" means there's nothing. If it was a zero, the controller would have to clear the zero and make it one before writing.

Don't go doing this unnecessarily. It'll kill your drive fast.

 

ok, today I got some offers for sammy slc, and, as I can see, there are some intel g2-s available on ebay, so, what should I do ?!?!
should I filp intel off and keep my sammy slc, couse, I'm very happy with its performance and the way it is working, or should I sell it and go with intel ?
the thing that worries me is that intel won't be on same level as sammy in view of maintenance, ( sammy is maintenance free xD ), and, if that happens, I won't be able to switch back to sammy, couse, no slc-s are available on ebay...
what to do....what to do...

 

Inteluser (and others with the same thinking), I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.

A drive does not know if a 1 or a 0 is 'data', it doesn't actually matter what state the actual chip is in (whether it's a '1' or a '0'). What matters is for the chips controller to 'know' that this part of the drive is erased (ie. ready to be written) or used (needs to be erased first).

Whether we tell a program to write 1's or to write 0's, we still degrade the whole drive (because even if the whole drive is written as 1's or 0's it does not mean it's full or empty - regardless of NAND, AND, or NOR flash logic - to the drive it means 'hey! this is the data we need to store'.

So even if a flash chip was storing a '0' or a '1' And the controller has marked it as 'used', then that flash chip will get erased And re-written - even if it's with the same value. If the controller has it marked as 'free', then it will simply be written to once, but again even if the chip was a '1', it will still be programmed as a '1' again, only this time the controller will also mark it as 'used'.

Hope this makes sense to everyone?

 

Oh, oh!

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=16385

Seems like the Agility's to buy are the current (soon to be the 'older') ones.

 

Yes, I know its not that simple. But for the purpose of what I was explaining, it would have been true. Since Secure Erase sends a specific command to the drive saying it was set to clear the drive, it will send the updated info to the controller.

And no, the controller DOES have some logic determining where the data should go to. That's for reliability purposes, so it'll evenly spread data around the drive.

There's no point of explaining more than needed in the world of X25-M's and Vertex's. Back in the Core series days, there was probably more for them to know. It'll just confuse people more.

 

Of course, the controller logic will effectively be bypassed when we are zeroing the entire drive. (Which is what we were talking about)?

 

Why would it? It would still do it, but it makes no difference since its all 0's. It must be also a good way to kill your drive fast.

Speculation on X25-M slowdowns

Although people nowadays toute X25-M's random write performance as pinnacle of SSD drives, the result isn't always a positive. There are still rare reports of significant slowdowns.

Now why does that happen with such a marvelous random write performance(which was speculated to be non-existent with Core drives and JMicron controllers?)??

Well, its back to basics. NAND flash requires the 1's to be cleared before writing a 0 into it. Because of specifics of implementation, multiple pages of NAND flash needs to be cleared, which slows down write performance. Now using a clever algorithm, and a 16-32MB buffer(depending on the X25-M model) to keep track of data, the X25-M can pull fantastic random write performance.

Problem is, that its too quick even for the drive itself. The part where it clears the data before writing new data(the process is called Garbage Collection), needs to keep up with the random write speeds. The X25-M does not do idle GC(results in lower idle power), it only does it on-the-fly at write time.

On the X25-M, the random write speed>>GC speed. When the clever algorithm and the buffer is overworked and the whole drive is "dirty", it'll start slowing down. The ugly side of NAND flash shows itself again.

The solution here is TRIM. The Postville(34nm) drive does not implement vastly better Garbage Collection than the Ephraim(50nm). So if TRIM didn't exist it'll probably slowdown faster than its Gen 1 counterpart does. But it has TRIM, so who cares?

 

Again... Sorry if I sound too naive on this. Windows 7 has TRIM, corrrect? How about Snow Leopard? AFAIK, it doesn't include it, right? Are there at least some "plans" to make it available in the future as a software update from Apple and/or a firmware update from Intel?

 

Yeah, TRIM, background garbage collection, wiper--none of that stuff works with OS X. I wonder if you bootcamped a partition just big enough to install Windows it would perform TRIM and GC on the whole drive or just the Windows partition?

 

Snow Leopard does not support Trim, and from what I've read the support for it is practically there, it just needs to be implemented (and Apple seems to have no current plans to do so: Link

 

Do the SSDs that you select when ordering from Dell have Trim support? I don't know what the brand is, but for instance if you were in the process of customizing a laptop and selected an SSD, would it have trim support? If not, is that something a firmware update could add?

 

You would need to contact Dell and ask them what drives are being used. Once you know that, you can look into possible firmware updates. Usually though, buying a high end piece of tech like this through Dell will be realy expensive for what you get. You'd be better off to get the cheapest drive in it, then upgrade yourself.

 

AFAIK Dell uses Corsair(Samsung) drives and there presently is no TRIM but Samsung has stated that a firmware flasher would be made available prior to Win7 launch. Can't say if those drive have VBM18C1Q or the old firmware without GC.

 

Yeah I tried calling and asking, but they didn't know. And I checked into the prices and it costs $300 extra to add a 256GB SSD, which seemed cheaper than buying one separately.

Wow everyone is quick to reply! Thanks for the information sgilmore62. I think I read somewhere that the 256GB versions do have the newer firmware, but there still might be some 128GB versions being sold with the old firmware.

 

Sorry to bring up this newbie question but...
Ever since I got my G1 x25-m, ive been out of the ssd scene.
I've read a lot on the G2 x-25m 80GB, but has their firmware corruption issue been fixed yet?
I dont see reviews or anything about it being fixed.

 

Intel released an update back in August to fix this 'issue'. Honestly though, it wasn't a big deal for most people - just those who set a hard drive password in the BIOS which lead to this corruption.

 

So, if none of those work on OS X, wouldn't all the Mac users with SSDs complain about slow downs, etc more than Windows users? I dont remember seeing any threads on the forums that I am a member regarding this "issue". There must be "something" that's keeping SSDs in check under OS X, right? Is there?

 

samsung ssd regeneration solution will work on any OS couse it is OS independent

 

I don't know about after market modifications, but the SSD's shipped with Macs are Samsung drives and according to one (Anand) reviewer, always work in 'degraded' mode. Other sites also support this view (paraphrasing; 'the Macs with the (Apple) SSD option felt about the same as the mechanical hard drives').

Also, if it is the same for every Mac user, how will they know (unless they are also running the exact same drive in a non-Mac system)?

Intel's drives (from my understanding) also do this 'automatically' regardless of O/S used; the G2 drives just do it much better than the G1 drives.

Edit: 'paraphrasing' above; they were talking about 'snap' in the O/S experience - yes the SSD's finished tasks faster, but using them they didn't 'feel' that fast. Is this important? Well, this was a major reason why I tried and returned 4 Seagate 7200.4's 500GB drives - they felt 'broken' even if they were faster if/when I timed them.

 

i tried hd tune on my intel postville g2 and only got a maxiumum of 198,8 mb/s.. it should be 230mb/s ? :x
maybe it is damaged or is it because windows is running on it?

 

I'd say you're good (it's because windows is running on it).

 

Read this pdf for interesting info on Intel SSD's.

 

Would love to read it, but it needs a username and password.

Anywhere else we could read it?

 

Try clicking the "Session Catalog on the side" link on the page, then re-click the link in my post. Or I uploaded it to Google Docs, here.

 

Jayayess1190

Wow! Thanks for uploading to google docs (the link to the Session Catalog still needed a password/username).

Just finished reading this and... I'm stoked for what the (Intel) future will bring!

 

That's because you shouldn't depend on SSD's alone to do " everything" in a nano second. They are a part of your computing "system," and therefore, aren't always the fastest through every application.

Once I can afford mine, I'll us them for my applications and store everything else on a treditional HD.

 

Hey guys, how much more battery life you guys have due to your SSD? I'm curious to see what your battery life with your old HDD (or SSD) was compared to what your (new) SSD is.

Specifically, I'm interested in the Gen 1 SLC Samsung, Gen 2 MLC Samsung, various Indilinx drives (ie. OCZ Vertex vs. Agility, or even their SLC variants), Intel Gen 1/2 SLC/MLC drives - and if size matters (ie. Intel MLC 80GB vs. 160GB).

I wish we had a dedicated post with a list of the various models (and sizes, since for example OCZ Vertex 60GB and 120GB have different theoretical performance - would like to know how this translates into real life performance numbers) of SSDs (or at least the non-stuttering ones) with a short summary containing information to educate a person on the type of controller, memory, real performance screenshots, etc. I mean we're almost at the 8800th post!

 

Actually there's only really two: Samsung and Intel. Everything else is a variation on those two major manufacturers. Still, Laptop magazine did an excellent review on the various models and OCZ (a Samsung derivative) came in at #3--just behind Intel and Samsung respectively.

 

60gb OCZ Summit almost 80% filled.
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You gotta count in Indilinx as the #3 manufacturer, even though they don't make drives and just license the controller.

 

Pretty sweet deal for Indilynx since their controller was developed by Samsung engineers.

 

Yes there are three functional contollers: intel, indilinx, and samsung

next gen1 intel is better than gen 2 because gen 2 relies heavily on TRIM gen1 is self sufficient

third samsung gen 1 slc is a piece of crap gen 2 is the one we use

 

Is this possible? Regular laptop, using a netbook 32GB Pci-e flash card(one that fits in case you were wondering yes it measures up right), installed and running my OS right next to my wireless card and intel Turbo Memory. That's right I also got 3 Pci-e slots on a Notebook. Also installed in the main drive bay is a 500 GB 2.5 inch harddrive for data backup. So no I am not interested in a 2.5 inch SSD, I'm perfectly happy with my harddrive in that bay.

I have yet to see anywhere of anyone trying this out. Mainly see advertisers charging big bucks for a flash 2.5 SATA drive, but I'm sure they wouldn't want anyone to try and save money or make use of empty Pci-e slots on our Laptops now, because that would just make cents. Interested to see if anyone posts something to be of relevance to this setup that has actually done it. If it's possible, It would be great to know about it. Thanks.

 

It's not possible. I answered why in your other thread, so no need to double post here. Several members here have tried and have failed in getting it to work. If you care to read why/how, there is a search function.

 

the XPS 1530 only has 1 hdd bay? If you have a second hdd bay you would be better off paying $100-$125 for a good 64gb ssd. from what I have seen those pci-e devices do not perform well enough to make it worth having.

 

Great article. One thing that caught my eye was slide #9 showing an "Intel SSD Toolbox." A little internet search shows that this is a new management tool and firmware update that is coming out in Q4.

 

Samsungs 1st generation SLC maybe is crap, but it is working much better then 5400 rpm HDD. And 16 GB model I owned never had degradation problem.

If someone is interested in good PCI-E, ZIF, PATA SSDs take a look at RunCro Pro IV witch use Indilinx controllers.

 

You answered nothing, which is why I ask others besides you who may have knowledge on the subject. Your post reveals nothing of relevance on the question or setup. I did not ask about adding SATA SSD's at all and that's what you had another inane answer for. In the mean time please look up what "inane" means. Please do not waste anymore thread space on responding with information about SATA SSD's. Thank you sgogeta4

I have been researching on this for some time now. Only responses come from the masses about how they haven't tried. Also the inane responses that answer nothing about the topic at all, such as "use your search", or " get a Sata SSD". Which of course answers nothing other than getting your sig to come up more often in Google.

I ask please only respond to this question if it is of relevance, has anyone used a laptop PCI-e for their OS and the hard drive bay for storage?
Thanks!