i9 8950hk beats the desktop i7 8700k (cpu-monkey.com) posts benchmarks! i7 8850h just near to it!

The 8950HK is still a viable option. I’d be more interested if it will be offered in the $3,000> spectrum though.

These laptops that are pushing $4,000 with soldered gpu’s and BGA processors, you may as well go for a socketed 8700K laptop with true single core speed! And the 8700K is the only cpu that’s gonna offer the fastest IPC on the market.

 

Do not be surprised if max temp passes 50C and the lovely Thermal Velocity Boost feature kick in and lower max turboboost And not all OEM's offer Intel's advertised 48x on single core for their high end BGA models. Some OEM's even call clocks below Intels own specs... overclock, LOOL

Processor
As already mentioned the CPU can be overclocked with the included Command & Control application. However, we suggest you take these claims with a grain of salt. The only difference between normal operation and OC level 3 was the Core i9-8950HK's consistent maximum turbo speed of 4.3 GHz (4.0 GHz on normal, 4.1 GHz on OC level 1, 4.2 GHz on OC level 2).

 

geez, what a total mess...

 

You have only seen the beginning, sir. Just wait and see when the RMA numbers ticking in after some time and they aka the OEM engineers start to offer updated firmware/updated own oc software in hope to kill power usage aka lower maximum heat.

 

This is unexpected at all. Very disappointed.

 

The 2600x is more of the matching direct competition to the 8700K, the 2700k surpasses the 8700K except in games, but both get close enough for it not to matter.

If you have been waiting to ditch Intel, like so many, then AMD has finally give us all excellent alternatives in the 2600(x) and 2700(x).

 

The 8950HK can be reigned in like the 7820HK, you just have to have restraint and common sense. Lacking that, you've got some tuning to do either way.

The problem with the 8700K is that in a laptop the 8700K has too much heat and power requirement to deftly "pull off" that laptop look and feel. It seems more like a portable Grand Piano.

Bulky and extremely Noisy. Expensive and Grandiose.

But if you are into that, it does serve a role for the few dedicated enthusiasts that have to wave it high and proud. And, they certainly do.

 

From big to small...

MSI GT75 Titan → 58 x 428 x 314 (2.28 x 16.85 x 12.36 in)

Asus ROG Chimera G703 → 51 x 425 x 319 (2.01 x 16.73 x 12.56 in)

Clevo P870TM1 with desktop i7-8700K → 47.2 x 428 x 308 (1.86 x 16.85 x 12.13 in)

 

@Papusan - do you know the exact weight of a P870TM1 with a single 1080, delidded 8700K and the vapor chamber heatsink?

I'm asking this genuinely, not sarcastically. I really want that info. If it is OK enough, I may consider the P870TM1.


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Im not sure but I think below 5.5kg. The one without the Vapor chamber... See specs from the manual

 

They named the BGA i9-8950HK so that Notebook user think it's as good or even better than their upcoming 8-core (i9) S-series CPUs and not just a renamed 6-core i7-8700K...

Here a regular usage (non-extreme) scenario comparison between 8700K Notebook and 1700x Desktop:



EDIT:

In general I think the 8850H with it's 4 open multis for OCing maybe a good choice for Notebook user. Only the largest systems will be able to cool a 9850HK properly to make actual use of it.

 

Here's an updated selection of benchmark results with the new AMD Ryzen 2700x vs. the 8700K:

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X outpaces the Intel Core i7-8700K in more ways than one in first benchmarks

"The AMD Ryzen 2700X was given a test drive ahead of its official announcement and the CPU has managed to put up an impressive show. The Ryzen 2700X has managed to beat or come in close proximity to the Intel Core i7-8700K in gaming benchmarks and was absolutely stellar in multi-threaded performance.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-R...ys-than-one-in-first-benchmarks.296674.0.html

There are a many pages of print reviews and video reviews being posted here comparing Ryzen 2 vs Ryzen 1 vs Intel CPU's under many configurations, applications, and gaming, it's just getting started

AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...zen-tr-epyc-vega-polaris-gpus.799348/page-446

 

It helped as well the $200 more for the name. 7700Hq was estimated equal price with unlocked 7820Hk on their specs site.


Ryzen 2700x ain’t put in any laptops as I know. And won’t be.... http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...h-just-near-to-it.814004/page-5#post-10716904

 

The 8850H is a hot throttling TDP limited mess however. Can't sustain 6 core 12 thread boost clocks in anything without TDP throttling.

 

But does it really?

 

Yeah. Check this thread.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...h-owners-and-discussions-lounge.815216/page-8

Hot throttling mess
Brothers @Papusan @Prema

 

Works as intended @Falkentyne

 

There... I fixed that typo for you, bro.

 

Somewhat Wrong, bruh Broken means it can be fixed. My point should stand

 

I just repped 3 people in 10 seconds. Holy cow.

 

Wow! That thing is struggling! Maybe an under volt would help it get in to the 1,100? So it’s really TDP limited!

I’m actually doing much better with my 7th gen.

I’d say the 8950HK is a pretty good choice then. It’s in thin devices. And roughly 1,350 at 4.3Ghz is nothing to complain about.

 

Changing the IMON SLOPE would prevent the TDP throttling.

But only a re-paste + undervolt, OR re-paste + changing the "IA AC DC loadline" setting in CPU VR settings to 1 and 1, will prevent the overheating, once the TDP issue is eliminated. And IMON SLOPE is only accessible via unlocking hidden bios menus.

MSI laptops used a COMBINATION of Internal Loadline Calibration (helps remove vdroop, but there is NO Bios setting to change or disable this), combined with VID BOOST based on resistance (2.10 mOhms) via the IA AC DC loadline setting (this is NOT LOADLINE CALIBRATION (LLC))!, which raises the internal VID and skews the starting vcore, based on current. So setting IA AC DC loadline to 1 prevents the VID boost (2.10 mOhms) and then keeps the actual voltage very close to the default VID for the chip when using adaptive voltage (+ offset if used), or the static voltage (if used).

Desktop boards ignored the IA AC DC loadline resistance setting when using static voltages, and only used this for adaptive voltage, but both MSI and Alienware Sky/Kaby Lake laptops applied this to STATIC voltages improperly (eVGA laptops did not). I do NOT know if this is changed for Coffee lake or not. No access to boards to test this.

 

Looking at the Aorus X7 DT v8 with the 8850H. Will undervolting and a Conductonaut repaste it allow it to give a steady 4GHz+, perhaps? I'm looking for a highly portable GTX 1080 laptop and it seems to fit the bill.

I know that LGA is superior performance wise, but the only relatively portable 17" LGA is the P775TM, whose GPU reaches 90C+ while gaming, which is worrying. I can't lug around a 12.13lb (+ PSU, which will be another 2.5lb) P870TM1, for it will kill my back which gives me problems anyway. I did consider the GT75 i9, but that also gets too heavy for my liking, especially with dual PSUs. The Aorus X9 DT is another that I may consider.

Some questions that I hope a knowledgeable person can answer:

1. Can the Aorus BIOS be unlocked?

2. Will the 8850H + GTX 1080 last me 2ish years comfortably?

3. When undervolted, will the 8850H have any OC headroom (or the ability to hold 4GHz-4.2GHz consistently) at all before reaching 90C+ after Conductonaut repaste?

4. Are there any other concerns about the Aorus X7 DT v8 that are problematic/not fixed (eg. Keyboard, cooling, noise, coil whine, etc?

@Prema @Falkentyne @hmscott @Galm @MiSJAH and anyone else who can lend a helping hand.


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Most of that we really just don't know yet... I don't know of any unlocked Aorus bioses. A 1080 will still play games in two years, but at what settings is hard to predict. The cpu temps are hard to know until some people get them.

 

I don’t think there’s a common unlock on the X7 V8 bios. It’s been done on older models, but the unlock did not help much if any at all. The unlocked bios only allows slightly faster memory to be ran. Things may change in the future if somebody offers an unlocked bios. Or just do this your self if you have the skill or ask prema and add a nice donation to get it done.

Most of the kinks have been worked out of the X7 chassis as far as I know. Bad hinges, paint wearing off prematurely etc. etc.

I think the X7 V7 DT is a pretty good laptop for the most part. And you shouldn’t have much to worry about. So the X7 V8 DT is great I’m sure.

The gpu runs really cool on these machines between 52-62C at 1080P with a obsurd overclock as well, the cpu is ok on temps with factory paste. But for 4Ghz or higher on (6) cores it’s a given you’ll definitely need Liquid metal as the heat pipes are shared.

I’m sure it’ll probably achieve 4Ghz with an undervolt / repaste with LM but I’m just speculating here!

These laptops are very thin reliable machines, great build quality, and look really sleek! Very solid feeling construction, no noticeable flexing or creaks on my X7 V7. Mostly all aluminum construction down to the bezel on the screen. The main chassis is like a hard polymer frame sandwiched in aluminum top and bottom panels. The keys are all aluminum. It’s difficult to even notice any plastic is used on this laptop at all.


I feel pretty confident the partially unlocked 8850H can run 4Ghz with LM on the x7 V8 DT.


There are a ton of other great laptops out there though. If a thin, sleek design is what your after without sacrificing performance from something thicker then I’d say a X7 V8 has you covered.

 

As @Galm says, there have been no unlocked BIOS for AORUS notebooks.

2 hours battery life in what circumstance?


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Thanks for the answers guys If there is no unlocked BIOS, no problem. I am just trying to make sure it will maintain a solid 4GHz+ after undervolting and LM. I really wish they had made the 8850H so that we could remove the power limit.


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If it's an APTIO 5 Bios, and it does *NOT* have Bios Guard enabled (Bios Lock is not the same as bios guard), post your APTIO bios dump with FPTW64.exe -d backup.bin -bios (in administrator mode) and upload it somewhere and post the link here. Tag me and I'll look at it for you.

If it's not an aptio 5 bois or it has Bios Guard enabled, you're SOL.

And no, you can't do 4 ghz on all 6 cores without exceeding TDP and throttling. You will need to access advanced bios menus and change IMON SLOPE to a value lower than 100, to avoid this.

 

Thanks a lot for the kind offer! Much appreciated. If I do end up getting this laptop, I will definitely seek you out for help.

What all-core speed do you think an 8850H will reach with a solid undervolt and LM?


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Even if temps are good with LM, the issue is the power limit to be able to sustain boost clocks. If you can change PL1 and 2 in the Bios or with XTU then yes it might be possible if the temps are good.



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With 8th-gen I see ODMs moving PL1/PL2 control away from BIOS and into the EC to create miracles like reducing the TDP to 35W while the GPU is active as well.

It'll be more about holding stock clocks than overclocking...

 

You, @Prema , may be the only one who can save us.

That aside, do you see similar things happening to the 8950HK laptops? Surely those laptops will keep their OC options fairly easily accessible?


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Nope, I don't have access to hardware...

 

Yikes. We may be more than a bit screwed in that case. Just a quick question, can you reprogram a fan controller? If not, do you anymore who can do it for a Clevo DTR? They have annoying fans, which is one of the things driving me away from them.


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I do, but the new P9/PA Clevo's already give user more control over the FANs than before:

Spoiler

 

Thanks, brilliant info. Any idea as to when this will reach the P870/P775/P750 lines?


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Be you sure, the crippling apply also for the i9-8950Hk models. See... For example Aorus, they call it OC profiles 1, 2 and 3 and all is below Intel’s own clock specs. Hit up and read my previous posts about Aorus.

 

I know, I'm reading about and getting less sure about the Aorus. I am looking at the EVOC P775 but am a bit worried about temperatures of the GTX 1080 GPU in particular.

@Donald@HIDevolution - will HIDevolution repaste the GTX 1080 GPU with Conductonaut? I'm asking since on your website you guys have recently been offering Conductonaut on CPU+GPU for a lot of BGA laptops.


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Yeah from now on, for the 45W cpus, the base clocks will be the norm or a little above, and an overclock will be stock clocks for all cores, if that.

 

MSI has already been doing this for awhile, unfortunately.
Disable NOS (either by unplugging the battery or changing the value in EC RAM C5 to 80 or lower (81 and higher up to D0 = NOS enabled; default MSI value for their taptops is 9E), and the maximum AC power gets restricted to 160W (GTX 1070) or 180W (GTX 1080). Exceed that and the EC starts throttling an unlocked CPU first to 45W, then 25W, then if that isn't enough, it drops the multiplier to x10 or x8.

Same thing happens if NOS is enabled and you exceed 230W AC power draw with a GTX 1070 or GTX 1060 installed. PECI (EC) power limits start throttling the CPU in the same way.




I haven't tested what happens if you exceed 330W power draw on a CM238 GT73VR or GT75VR (can't really do that), however I'll tell you this:
On the HM175 version OR if you are using EC 17A1EMS1.112 (the EC made for the HM175 version) on the CM238 chipset, if you exceed 330W of AC power, the EC cuts the CPU to 800 mhz without triggering ANY power limits or any throttling flags at all !!!! HWinfo and TS show absolutely NOTHING WRONG.......

You can emulate this on a "GT73EVR" or a GT73VR running FW 17A1EMS1.112, by unlocking the bios menus and setting "PSYS_PMAX" to 2700 (337.5W), then putting ANY load on just the GPU.
And your CPU will be running at 800 mhz. With no PL or any flags anywhere.

On the 17A1EMS1.108 or 17A1EMS1.109 EC, this doesn't happen. (probably because the EC has to allow a 460W power limit because of the SLI configuration possible on CM238 versions).

 

The EC implementation I mentioned reduces the maximum CPU Power Limit e.g. from 55W down to 35W a few seconds after the dGPU is just being enabled.
No matter the BIOS values, no matter the load, no matter the total combined draw, no matter the AC Adapter, no matter the battery.

 

You're scaring me ****less. This is the point where high-performance laptop enthusiasts scream "Geronimo" and leap off to build a desktop.

Let's hope that some ODMs resist the urge to cripple their laptops like this. But I don't like the odds on that. They will probably use that technique to reduce RMAs without putting any R&D or effort towards cooling solutions.


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As you know all too well I had first-hand experience with this on my last BGAbook. It's almost evil.

 

No, its the point at which those with real high performance laptops point at the medium performance thin laptops with a 'high performance' sticker on the box, sigh, and say "told ya so"

Too many consumers have lapped up this "ignore the laws of physics about size, weight, cooling, and performance; you CAN have it all!" marketing and this is the result.

Intel are also to blame as they have oversold the boost clock specs for this generation like never before, which they've forced themselves to do since their move to 6 core was only that on a slightly tweaked 14nm node, by not having a new architecture or new process to go with it.

 

I can't remember if I cried, when I read about the widowed bride (enthusiasts), but something touched me deep inside, the day the music (enthusiast laptops) died.


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Prema, my brother,

Why do manufacturers pull this stunt?

This is a well made machine *gimped* in firmware!

 

Let me see.

****, there was a time I wanted the Aorus X9

 

To keep their notebooks from dying.

 

and to be able to advertize "overclocking" while still locking everything down so as to not risk a performance jump to endanger their next super tiny step in performance with the nextgen models....