*HP 2510p Owners Lounge*

2510p Owners Lounge Release Date: June 27, 2007 (pre-GFC build quality)

4 - docking station ports | 5 - the slow ZIF PATA harddisk in the 1.8" drive bay There are a few negatives: only has 2 USB ports, a mono speaker, and no webcam (unless mod one in), no HDMI, only 1 RAM slot (which means a pricier 4GB upgrade with x3100 graphics working) 20-30% slower than a dual-channel setup and the bus bottleneck with 4200rpm 1.8" PATA harddisk. differences Differences Between 2510P, 2530P, 2540P & 2560P Item/Owner's Lounge 2510P 2530P 2540P 2560P unwhitelisted bios yes yes no no PLL/overclocking ICS9LPRS355/yes ICS9LPRS397/yes no no LED-backlit LCD 12.1" 1280x800 12.1" 1280x800 12.1" 1280x800 12.5" 1366x768 primary/optical bay 1.8" ZIF/pata 1.8" usata/sata 1.8" usata/sata 2.5" sata/sata CPU/chipset 65nm Merom/965GM 45nm Penryn/GS45 32nm Arrandale/QM57 32nm Sandy Bridge/QM67 FSB Mhz U7x00/L7700 533/800 U9x00/L9x00 800/1066 1066 1333 Graphics x3100 4500MHD Intel HD HD3000

[/TR] no of RAM slots single channel (1) dual channel (2) dual channel (2) dual channel (2) RAM DDR2-667 DDR2-800 DDR3-1333@1066 DDR3-1333 Wifi 4965AGN 5100AGN 6200AGN 6205AGN expansion slot PCMCIA+mPCIe expresscard 1.0+mPCIe expresscard 1.0+mPCIe expresscard 2.0+mPCIe WWAN-ready yes yes yes yes webcam and nightlight no, consider mod yes - on some models yes yes Displayport/HDMI no no, consider DIY eGPU yes/no yes/no USB ports (+ODD caddy) 2 2+1 3+1 3 native e-sata no no no yes keyboard traditional traditional semi-chiclet island Bootable SD card? no yes yes yes Weight with 6-cell+ODD 1.63kgs/3.59lbs 1.70kgs/3.75lbs 1.81kgs/3.99lbs 1.92/4.24lbs 2510P/2530P/2540P HP Accessory List shows shareable accessories between 25xxP units.

 

Hi,

I own a 2510p as well and the very limiting factor indeed seems to be the 4200rpm PATA hard drive.

In my 2510p, there's an 80GB model inside (Toshiba MK8009GAH) and right now I'm asking myself what to do. The usual price comparison sites tell me that, as a simple replacement, there's a 100GB and a 120GB model of that hard drive series available (MK1011GAH and MK1214GAH), both with 8MB cache and 4200rpm.
Assuming PATA is the only way to go, one could consider buying the Mtron Mobi MSD 3000 32GB, 1.8", ZIF (MSD-PATA3018-032). It costs 170 EUR here in Germany - that's pretty OK imo - but tbh, 32GB isn't really much.
So I am very very interested in this thread. I have also seen the unused connector and am wondering what it might be for.

Also, did you notice the letters 'SSD' marked on the little metal clamp that is used to hold the hard disk in place? Any idea why they put it there? Waking hope?

Another interesting thing: According to the HP partsurfer, there is a 120GB hard drive w/ 5400 rpm available (part number 467847-001). I'd go for that too, unfortunately I couldn't find out what HDD model it is yet.

Edit: I just found out that Toshiba will start shipping the MK2431GAH drive (1.8", 4200rpm, 240GB (!)) on March 1st, 2009. Now, as seek time remains 15ms, I'm curious nevertheless for benchmarks, because with two platters à 120GB, it will have a record breaking data density which should increase at least sequential read and write performance.

Edit2: Oh, and I wonder what happened to this one

 

Good god, dude. Stop talking about soldering on the mobo, it makes my head hurt

I would never go that far. I think the possibilities are as follows:

1. some manufacturer makes a decent 1.8" ZIF hdd
2. we go for the 32GB MTRON ssd
3. the unused port turns out to be some kind of sata connector which somehow can be enabled and used

I just flashed my BIOS to the newest version last evening, I was three versions behind before, and neither of the two BIOS versions had any options related to SATA. The only HDD related option I recall is the translation logic (bit-shift vs. LBA).

At this time, I am only one click away from buying the 32GB MTRON SSD :S
The sad thing is, there was a press release from MTRON saying they would release a 64GB version of their 1.8" ZIF SSD, but apparently they never did. Makes me

 

Man, I'd love being able to go for that one, that's for sure.

Say, could you provide hi-res photos of the system board of the 2510p? So we could see what kind of ricoh controller chip there is.

 

Well, at least when it comes to soldering on the mainboard you'll lose the warranty anyway, so I thought it wouldn't be a big deal for you

I've seen the device ID in the device manager as well, yeah, but maybe maybe there is some pcmcia driver for the ricoh controller other than the default xp driver.
Unfortunately I don't own such a cardbus SATA adapter card, otherwise I'd have tested with some linux distributions as well to make sure it's not the windows driver that causes the slow data rates.

Well, sadness. I've read this, so I think we can forget about using the cardbus slot, which narrows it down to either stick to the existing PATA connector or figuring out what the unused connector is good for, and how to enable it.
EDIT: Forget this, read page 4 of this thread!

 

I think I won't buy such a controller card, because, as you correctly pointed out, we can see enough of the ricoh chip in the HP services media library picture to know it's a R5C847.

 

Point taken. I found 6 or 7 different adapters still available here, most of whats on the marked nowadays is ExpressCard. Unfortunately, none of the cardbus adapters are the short "hide-inside" ones like what you linked. That won't affect the testing of course, but assuming I'm successful it won't be of much help. I don't want to have some stuff sticking out of the notebook, the battery that stands out of the back annoys me enough...

Besides I often copy photos from my compact flash card to the notebook using a 32-bit cardbus CF adapter, so I wouldn't want the slot to be blocked by the system disk. I think I'll get myself an MTRON 32GB SSD now.

 

The 120GB 5400rpm zif drive is the Samsung HS122JC. I picked a couple of these off eBay a few months ago for my 2510p's.

 

Could you please be so kind to do a benchmark using HD Tune or HDTach? I'd appreciate it very much.

Edit: Although I guess it wouldn't matter much because I can't seem to get my hands on one of those, neither in any shops nor at eBay

 

Perhaps someone here wants to know.
The probably biggest MTRON reseller here in Germany says:

I also mailed with Toshiba concerning the MK2431GAH hard disk drive, which has 1.8" LIF 4.200rpm and 240GB on only 2 platters. I asked why it doesn't seem to be available in all the web shops (the 120GB version was all I could get). Toshiba Supervisor Technical Support, Danny Stahlfeld, says:

I did order the 32GB version of the MTRON 1.8" SSD now, atm the retailer is awaiting the shipping from Mtron, Korea, and I might hold it in my hands in the first days in March.
I'm curious though if there will be any useful stuff released on the CeBIT fair (3-8 March) (I'll be there most probably).

 

A guy in the German hardware forum claims that he has gotten info from mtron in his mail box ( http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showpost.php?p=11399337&postcount=1951)

According to that, the Mtron 1.8" 64GB SSD MSD-PATA3018-064-ZIF2 will be available in April. Now I wonder if I should cancel my order ^^

 

Yeah, perhaps I should waste the 16 Euros for such a card... After all it's not that much money... but as stated before, I can't seem to get my hands on a *short-type* adapter card, I only find cards that extend by about 1cm.

The 32 GB Mtron was ordered for 169 EUR + 6 EUR shipping.

 

Here ya go: worldwide shipping, built-in cardbus e-sata. You can see this is the same card as this "hide type" (AKE BC198) but is cheaper

 

I found the exact same article on ebay Germany and ordered it for about 20 EUR. So as the auction text says, it'll take 22-24 days to arrive here.

 

Found out e-sata is specifically for external sata drives and uses different electrical connectors. If wanting to thread it internally to a SATA drive (eg: X18-M), would need a SATA port, which apparently this card provides:

 

Not necessarily: https://www.akumen.com/store/files/images/d_553.jpg

Just need an appropiate cable

 

Good stuff. Finally the discussion is getting going on replacing the 2510p stock 1.8 ZIF HDD. Here are some additional info:

• I tried using the onboard miniPCIe slots to add an SSD and it didn't work. Besides the size issues I read that HP has a white list of recognized cards and that ASUS and DELL have proprietary protocols for using the mini PCIe interface. If anyone can figure this out this would be a cheap alternative since the second mini PCIe slot is free (unless your using mobile broadband). Runcore makes 2 upgrade modules that have decent speeds (MLC so not comparable with Mtron) as seen in these video.
• Runcore also released a ZIF 1.8 version with 16-128GB capacities and folks are gunning to use these on the MacAirs, HP Minis and Aspires Ones. Since it is 1.8 ZIF I'm hoping it will fit, but it looked a bit big to fit in the 2510p to me. See this early video in a HP Mini. Here is the review with benchmarks. But I'm guessing it should fit since the 1.8 format is a standard (comments welcome). I contacted Runcore about this and they haven't gotten around to testing them yet, but said I could return the drive if it didn't work. The drive is MLC like their mPCIe products and has 80/45 (R/W) Mb/s advertised specs. I read in another thread that it uses the dreaded Jmicron controller, but the good news it is the newer revision and so far there are no visible performance issues. The drive is 5mm height except for the 128GB version which is 9mm. Note the first batch had big problems with their ZIF cables and the latest batches (shipped this week so I'm waiting for feedback) seem to have these fixed. Here is the direct link to their US reseller mydigitaldiscount. They are currently back ordered. They also have a mini ZIF version in case they don't fit size wise and those go up to 64GB. Pricing is significantly cheaper than Mtron's SLC drives at an average $60 per 16GB. I've ordered a 32GB version on Thursday and when I get one I'll post results here.
• Concerning the cardbus port. I bought a Viking 32bit cardbus controller off ebay and a Transcend 300x card. I tried the 32bit Delkin drivers and the best I could get is 7mb/s reads. On a IDE to ZIF adapter I get ~35MB/s. I thougt it was a driver issue, but it could also be the controller. I didn't know that there was a controller issue before reading it here, but I would stay away from the above seller since he never answered my emails and I think his UDMA support statement in his ad is incorrect.
• Tried a 1.8 Zif to CF adapter with good results on a 300x Transcend 8GB card with good results. I was getting 30-45MB/s on read/writes. 8Gb was pretty small even on an XP install. I was doing a lot of hibernates vs shutting down my 2510p. One day it would boot so I reinstalled my HDD. I was worried that I had "used up" my CF card but after a reformat it worked well in my camera. Thankfully Transcend has a lifetime warranty so I will RMA the card if additional problems turn up (no problems using for pictures). I worry about using CF cards since I question the wear leveling used since the target application is very different. I also have a 4GB 150x SD card and that is super slow too (also in the 7MB/s read range). I'm using it as a swap drive. This will hopefully will reduce wear on a main SSD if turning off swap is not feasible for my applications. Besides SD cards are cheap now.

Some questions:

• Has anyone tried the SATA DVD caddy mod post by Nando4. Does that ebay part fit into the 2510p?
• I hardly use my optical drive so I'd like to remove it. Does that save power? What can I use to plug the hole? Any instructions how to do so and will this void my warranty? Any thoughts on where to get a DVD+R/W replacement? Mine came with the DVD/CDR combo drive.
• This is off topic, but has anyone tried the Intel wifi Draft N 5100 mPCIe card? Initial feedback from an ebay seller is that it won't work, but no reason why. The 5100 has half height version and only uses 2 antennas as the existing card does. The supported draft N card is the Intel 4965 which has 3 antennas but only 2 need to be connected. The 4965 is more expensive ($35 vs 20) than the newer 5100 or its bigger brother 5300 (400MB/s max).
• Any thoughts on using hibernate on a SSD? Writing 2GB of data on a 32GB could increase wear. I'm hoping shutdown will be faster so I won't need to use it much. On my 4200rpm HDD shutdown and restart takes forever.
• Where can you download the latest BIOS for the 2510p? (Duh! from HP.com F.0E (4 Nov 2008))

Finally, I use my notebook as a portable device and have a desktop for more storage at home. With a fast wireless LAN and and external USB drive I won't need more than 32GB onboard storage for now. 64GB would be better, but I don't want to spend $200 when you can get a 100Gb 7200rpm 2.5 SATA drive for $50. I'm looking for decent performance at a reasonable price and it seems the 2510p lucked out when it was released with 1.8 ZIF interface. $119 (plus ship & tax) for a 32GB drive with 80/45 MB/s performance sounds right for me.

 

I have the Intel 4965AGN wifi card and it works well, costs 19 EUR here...

I've stumbled upon this thing http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a405317.html - any idea if it might work using the WWAN miniPCIe slot?

edit: apparently not

 

As for the dvd replacement:
* No idea what you could get as a replacement
* I doubt that removing the drive would void the warranty, HP usually lets you replace most of the stuff w/o losing warranty (although the DVD drive is the only part that has no mark symbols beneath the screws)
* the mentioned HDD bay for the MultiBay slot does NOT fit in the 2510p. I removed the DVD drive and made a photo of its connector:
http://pub.jay2k1.com/2510p-optical-drive-connector.jpg
This is definitely not the kind of connector that can be seen on the eBay auction's pictures.

 

Would this work? http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_27&products_id=186

They have a PATA and SATA drive version with a JAE 50 connector. They even display an HP notebook, but the orientation of the drive is on the opposite side of the 2510p. They mention HP-Compaq Multibay compatibility.

Does anyone have a link for instructions on removing the optical drive?

 

You need to remove two torx screws - the one near the middle rubber foot and the one at the bottom left, between the bottom left rubber foot and the pocket for business cards.
Then you have to use a paperclip or something like that to emergency open the drive (you could also switch on the notebook, push the open button and turn off the notebook again). You pull out the slide, grab it and carefully pull out the drive. That's it.

Oh and as for this one, why don't one of you just buy and test one

 

INFO: Using a optical bay caddy to install a 2.5" SATA or PATA SSD/HDD
Linked from DIY: Adding SSD or HDD Storage using an optical bay caddy

Introduction

The HP 2510P is shipped with a 180gram 9.5mm Matsushi*ta UJ-852S PATA optical drive using a JAE50 rear connector. It can be swapped out for a optical bay caddy containing a SATA or PATA 2.5" SSD or HDD of your choice. Eg: use a 2.5" HDD via a caddy to provide data storage and a 1.8" ZIF SDD as a primary os and applications drive to improve response and maintain battery life. The slow 1.8" ZIF HDD could be sold to the ipod crowd or used as a data dump together with a 2.5" sata SSD. Optical drive can be converted to external USB unit or hotswapped if using a 1.8" primary drive. A PATA caddy can be had for as low as US$19 shipped, then add SSD or HDD cost.

Written and video instructions for removing the optical drive

Torx T-8 screwdriver is needed to undo two screws. Can even be loosened with a matched flat or phillips head and a little effort. Can see how easy it is: connect to HP Media Services Libary, follow menus to select 2510P notebook, select FRU Remove/Replace, select Optical Drive.

SATA or PATA optical bay caddies available for the 2510P

The following 2.5" sata or pata optical drive bay configurations are valid, with or without a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD:

9.5mm caddy	Price and link	Bridge chip/overhead	Master/slave jumper	Review
sata-to-pata	US$13 shipped^1 / ebay	Marvell 88SA8040/1W	No^2	here-C
	US$42+shipping / newmodeus	Jmicron Jm20330/0.8W	Yes	here-B
pata	US$14 shipped^1 / ebay	not required	Yes - on HDD	here-A | here-C
	US$38+shipping / newmodeus			here-B

^1 rear multibay connector plate unscrews to reveal required JAE50 connector as shown in the review
^2: can be hardwired as master, but not slave, as described here, shown here. Update: the slave_mod works on a "topda" ebay caddy.

See Comparison:_ebay_versus newmodeus 9.5mm sata-to-pata and pata caddy

Power consumption considerations to determine which 2.5" optical bay caddy to use

Use of a 2.5" drive will reduce the battery life from it's level when using a 1.8" drive. Consider the original 0.4W/1.1W idle/active 1.8" HDD power consumption as a guide to retain similiar levels of battery life. Power consumption of recent 2.5" harddisks is here and here. There's a 0.8-1W power consumption overhead by sata-to-pata bridge chip if opting for a SATA caddy. To put this in perspective, the supplied 1.8" ZIF drive has a idle power consumption of 0.4W. A SATA caddy and an efficient 2.5" SATA drive pushes that up to 1.5W. That's a 1.1W increase at idle. If getting 5.5hrs of battery life from the 55Whr 6-cell with the ZIF drive, an average of 10W used, then using the SATA caddy and 2.5" SATA drive (11.1W) would decrease that by 30 mins even before considering the higher read/write power requirements of the 2.5" SATA drive. The PATA caddy (without a bridge chip) and a PATA 2.5" HDD's general lower power requirements means a PATA caddy is a more battery friendly solution.

• PATA caddy to conserve battery life
  
  A PATA caddy with a 2.5" IDE HDD like the 160GB Samsung HM160HC or 320GB WD3200BEVE, or even transplanting the 1.8" ZIF drive with a ZIF to 2.5" IDE adapter, all being the more battery efficient way of improving and extending the 2510P's storage capabilities. Only con of using 2.5" IDE drives rather than 2.5" SATA drives is the higher cost per GB and the limitations of 160GB-per-platter density: slower performance, smaller maximum capacity, and not suited for transplant into a newer SATA equipped notebook in the future.
  
  [*]SATA caddy, noting 0.8W-1W consumption of bridge chip
  
  The good value option. A 250-gb-per-platter SATA hdd in the caddy, improves speed and extends capacity and storage can be used in future notebook acquisitions. Another good one being a 2.5" SATA SSD like OCZ Vertex then using the 1.8" ZIF HDD to provide additional storage.
  
  An tiny on/off switch disconnecting power to the bridge chip and the HDD could be used to save the constant 0.8W-1W. Useful if a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD is sufficient for on battery use. Can do that now by pulling out the caddy but that means extra wear on the JAE50 connector. Idea presented to newmodeus for consideration in their next revision.

Suggested setup for hotswappable optical bay and optical bay caddy + HDD

1.8" ZIF SSD as primary os and apps drive to give fast os and app response. Then one of the following in the hotswappable optical bay caddy depending on required capacity, performance and battery life. Battery life subject to whether you access the caddy's drive whilst running on battery if set to do spindown standby mode, except for (3) which adds a constant 0.8W-1W sata-to-pata bridge chip overhead.

1/ supplied 1.8" ZIF HDD using 1.8-to-2.5" adapter: lowest speed, capacity, power consumption and cost [PATA]
2/ 2.5" PATA HDD for capacity up to 320GB: faster HDD performance, balanced power consumption [PATA]
3/ 2.5" SATA HDD for capacity up to 500GB: fastest HDD performance, worst power consumption [SATA-to-PATA]

The master/slave configurations supporting hotswapping being:

2.5" optical bay^1|...1.8"....|.optical drive.|.Detail
.......Slave..........|.Master...|.Slave..........|pro: Easiest to setup. Best for hotswap configuration.
........................|.............|..................|con: Write performance workaround. How to set ebay caddy as slave?.
.......Master........|.Slave^2.|external USB.|pro: Best performance when using a fast 2.5” drive
........................|.............|..................|con: can’t hotswap in optical drive, so go external USB
.......Master........|Master^3|.Slave..........|pro: Workaround for best 2.5” performance and hotswap
........................|.............|..................|con: 1.8” connected/disconnected when 2.5" removed/installed.
.......Master........|.Slave.....|.Master^4....|con: not possible -> need a hacked ODD firmware
^1: set by jumpers on the SATA caddy or IDE drive for the PATA caddy
^2: set by wedging a wire between pin 1 and 2 as explained here. Source: Toshiba Storage Europe.
^3: 1.8" ZIF socket physically connected only when 2.5" drive swapped out for optical drive.
^4: Jumpering pin 45-47 (CSEL to GND) to force master on the optical drive has been unsuccessful. Bios taking ages to boot. Google says a special Toshiba UJ-852s firmware can set it as master, though Toshiba won't supply it. Requires further investigation. Google tells me other UJ-8xxx work as master with a jumpered pin47 and 45. Perhaps pin47 needs to be isolated from the systemboard to get it working?

Cloning the drives

With the 2.5" HDD in the caddy, I cloned the 80GB drives using Linux dd/ntfsclone commands. Windows users may opt for Acronis Easy Migrate 15-day Trial instead. Then set the drive paths in C:\boot.ini, so have an option for Master-XP or Slave-XP. Booted off the 2.5", then using XP's partition Manager as a guide to drive mapping, changed the C: path in registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices to point to the 2.5" drive. This setup means I can bootup from either 2.5" or 1.8" drive, the latter providing hotswap optical drive access.

Converting optical drive to be an external USB unit

Two inexpensive ways, all available on EBAY for < $20US, all with the ability to use either the optical drive or the optical bay caddy as external USB unit, even hotswapping between them. Very handy for imaging purposes.

1. Use a genuine $20US HP Multibay II cradle, HP Part PA509A.
   NOTE: Multibay connector on the back means is probably a fraction longer than (2). I would consider gluing the multibay-II-to-JAE50 interface board from notebookelite's optical bay caddy into the cradle if intending on using the optical bay caddy and optical drive as hotswap units.
   
2. Use an $20US external enclosure, again from notebookelite trader: USB External Slim Case For Laptop DVD DVDRW 9.5mm Drive. A cheaper option than (1) for non-US customers, probably slighty shorter too.

A word of caution about the 9.5mm Thinkpad Ultrabay slim caddy

And/or USB-converting accessories, their rear connector is not compatible with a HP 2510P. We can see this below: Left: 2510p DVD unit with 9.5mm thickness and standard JAE 50 connector Right top: Thinkpad ultrabay slim DVD, of correct 9.5mm thickness but wrong interface connector Right bottom: Correct JAE 50 interface but too thick at 12.7mm

Bios boot menu To confirm if indeed your caddy is slave, in the bios set: System Configuration -> Boot Options * Multiboot = Enable * Express Boot Popup Delay = 5

Bios Menu Master drive naming Slave drive naming System boot device [F9] Notebook Hard Drive Optical Disk Drive HDD Self Test Notebook Hard Drive Notebook Multibay

Will present a menu on bootup giving you 5 seconds to choose which drive to boot from.

Hotswapping the optical drive and 2.5" drive in optical bay caddy
Setting standby idle standby timeout to improve battery life
Versatility: using 9.5mm caddy in other 9.5mm/12.7mm optical bay systems

Sections covered in DIY: Adding SSD or HDD storage using an optical bay caddy

Summary Notes

• 2510P does not observe cable-select settings. Must hard set storage as master or slave.
• PATA caddy requires jumpers on the 2.5" IDE HDD to be set as either master or slave.
• newmodeus SATA caddy has master/slave jumper. As slave, it is a direct drop in replacement for the optical drive.
• Bios options "Notebook Hard Drive" and "Optical Disk Drive" requires following translation with caddy installed:
  - Notebook Hard Drive refers to the Master drive.
  - Optical Disk Drive refers to the Slave drive. Can boot from it OK, even without Master installed.
• 1.8" Toshiba ZIF HDD can be set to slave by wedging a wire bridging pin 1 and 2 (bottom right of photo).
• Interface read is capped to UDMA5/ATA100 speed of 83-90MB/s.
• With a primary 1.8" SSD/HDD, XP allows hotswap of the optical drive and SATA/PATA caddy
• 9.5mm JAE50 caddy fits and works in systems using a 12.7mm PATA optical drive
• 3D Driveguard (accelormeter) engages on the optical bay caddy HDD as shown.
• SATA-to-PATA bridge chip consumes 0.8W (newmodeus) of power or 1W (ebay), regardless of if HDD is spundown or active. Requested newmodeus see if this can be reduced, or if a tiny faceplate on/off switch could be added to extend battery life where running a 1.8" primary drive on battery is sufficient.

I have no affiliation with any of traders of products highlighted above. Their product is simply used to assist 2510p owners improve their drive performance.

 

ASUS EEE's FLASH_CON uses the mini pci-e size format, but has incorporated into it PATA, SATA and USB. Given that Dell Mini runcore SSD work on ASUS machines, they must also use some part of this pinout. So to use the runcore SSD for ASUS EEE machines would require an adapter from the PATA pinouts to PATA on the 2510P systemboard. Why systemboard? Well, it seems the 2510P mini pci-E we have does not have SATA/PATA on it as per this. Though this may not be accurate, as Intel Turbo Memory used in the 2510P slot is a form of PATA SSD from what I can tell.

Here's the ASUS EEE FLASH_CON pinout (asus pci-e connector) as used by runcore mini pci-E SSD

 

I'd rather look for some spare space to put this thing:



Would be the easiest of all methods. It is 74 x 51,3mm in size.

 

On that board I can't see a controller chip at all, that's why I assumed if it works in one direction, it should work in the other one as well...

And getting a longer ZIF cable from somewhere shouldn't be that much of a problem.

I just thought, now what happens if you find out where these sata lines (pins) on the mainboard are. And manage to hack the bios of course. Are you really gonna solder on the board? I mean, I know my solder skills, they're ok but far from being able to solder SMD, for example. And soldering on a multi-layer PCB is probably the worst thing I could do. So either we or I find a way to work with one or more adapters, or we have to stick to using either MTRON mobi SSDs or other 1.8" ZIF SSDs - I've seen only one so far, apart from the runcore SSDs that are currently on backorder and caused a lot of trouble with their connector being twisted - and that would be the samsung SSD that is also used in those 2510p's that shipped with SSD from HP. Only that these ones are hardly available, only a few on ebay, and cost between 600 and 1000 bucks.

AFAIR, the runcores were slower as the MTRONs, like ~70MB/s read and 35-40MB/s write or something. I'm very curious how fast my MTRON mobi will be, I hope I'll get 90/90.

 

You can see, with so much hassle to get the non-ideal PATA (with bridge to accomodate SATA) to work, finding and soldering 4 lines to get SATA would be a walk in the park. Consider this.

INFO: Performance of 1.8" 5400rpm HDD (SATA), provided by 2530P owner


32.2Mb/s versus 19.7Mb/s for the 2510p.. 63% increase in performance. An increase, but relatively expensive for the gain.. I'd be looking 1.8" SSD or 2nd drive caddy with 2.5" SSD/HDD myself.

 

Well, one of the main reasons for me to buy the 2510p when it came to deciding on what model of the available subnotebooks was that it was one of the very few with built-in optical drive, so I'd do hell and remove it

 

ah, ok, then I misunderstood, I thought you wanted to leave the 1.8" hdd in there for storage and use a 2.5" ssd in the caddy as system disk - then you'd have a problem switching it if you need the dvd drive.

 

A DIY microsata to ZIF adapter could work for the 2510P.



The supplied ZIF HDD is 54x71x8mm in size! If using the "Samsung Slim SSD", it is 3.48mm thick, which provides plenty of clearance of 4.52mm to work with. The X18-M is 5mm thick, opening up 3mm of clearance.

Size of SATA to 3.5" IDE adapter: 2.13 in x 1.81 (size as given for 2-port version)
Size of 3.5" IDE to ZIF adapter: 3.54 in x 1.30
Total: 3.54 in x 3.112
Size (shrunk) estimate: 2.13 in x 2.33 (removal of 2x~0.39 IDE connectors + more)

More details, including source of parts, in new thread titled For those with slow 1.8" PATA drives wanting SATA...

 

Update:

the PCMCIA 32-bit Cardbus 2xSATA adapter card arrived today (the one you showed me on ebay).

The results are better than I thought: The device uses the VIA VT6421 controller chip which also supports RAID 0 and 1. I just installed the normal driver and attached 3 SATA disks to it, one after the other and benched them using HD Tune:

1. a Western Digital 300GB 3.5" Disk (WD3000JS)



2. a Seagate 250GB 3.5" Disk (ST3250824AS)



3. an MTRON Mobi 16GB 2.5" SSD (MSD-SATA3525)



This was quite a bit surprising to me. I benched the MTRON on my High-End computer too, attached directly to the mainboard, and there it has something between 92 and 98 MB/s, so either the PCMCIA card or the Ricoh controller in the 2510p is limiting to these ~70MB/s. But still, impressive.

I guess it's your turn, nando

EDIT: Well, if everything on earth would be easy...
Of course you can't make the 2510p boot from the PCMCIA card. I guess you need to, for example, install a bootloader like linux GRUB on a small USB stick and add the operating system on the attached SATA device to the grub.conf or menu.lst - this way you should be able to boot from it.

 

Wow Jay2k1! This is impressive work and impressive results. It is great news that the ricoh cardbus chip is mostly unleashed to do it's work. Thank you for posting this for the community. Would you mind posting a pic and model number of the cardbus controller for others' to followup as EBAY links tend to disappear after a while? I wonder if it would be able to thread the sata cabling internally *without* pulling apart the machine.. perhaps just be pulling off the keyboard. I assume you still need to run a separate power lead to the sata drives?

It would be great to know how these SATA to IDE (then to ZIF) converters perform. Care to do more experiments? Dealextreme have them at really great prices. I ask because then there is a norm against which to compare solutions against. The 2nd drive caddy uses these bridge chips internally as well. Various techniques using these SATA to IDE (then ZIF) adapters are covered in another thread. Included are ways of creating a plug and play solution to the smallest & thinnest custom adapter requiring some soldering which may be able to fit into the 1.8" drive bay.

So the oyster is opening to give varying 1.8" SATA options for the 2510p users..

 

I'll try to get it from some cheap German shop, I don't like ordering in foreign shops... There's one shop that has it, costs 17 EUR. edit: I just bought one, should ship in 2-4 days...

you mean this one? I still wonder where to store it.

And I wonder how much power these disks consume :S
You know, I'm afraid to attach a 3.5" SATA disk to that SATA-ZIF-adapter because I think the notebook can't handle it...
I'll only try the 2.5" MTRON SSD...

 

Am mighty curious to know performance data, especially the mtron as it's performance is closest to the 1.8" Samsung Slim SSDs on ebay. How close to the SATA native 92-98MB/s transfer rate would these SATA to PATA converters come? PATA interface is limited to 133MB/s (2510P is UDMA-5/ATA-100 so is max 100MB/s).

 

Soon we shall know

Would be funny if it'd be slower than my 70MB/s w/ PCMCIA.

Anyways, no matter whether I'll be successful with my adapter or if your idea should be a working solution, I don't see a use in that for myself as I wouldn't buy an MLC SSD. I mean, IF I already walk the SSD path, I want full performance and full reliability (remember the 80%-bug with the Intel SSDs or stuttering with other MLC SSDs?). As of now, that means, I'd have to buy one of the MTRONs (which are ZIF) or one of the Samsungs (as can be seen here) which are SATA. Apparently, the Samsungs perform worse than the MTRONs while being more expensive (looking at the per-GB price), so either way, I end up buying an MTRON ZIF ssd.

 

If this discussion is true, then I believe the SATA to PATA adapter will be faster than the PCMCIA, quoted below:

Bottomline: I bought two of these and I wasn't disappointed at all. I tested it with SiSoft Sandra on my 500GB Seagate and 640GB WD SATA hard drives. The Seagates hd read speed on SATA was 74MB/s and with the converter was 72MB/s. The WD hd read spead on SATA was 64MB/s and with the converter was 62MB/s. The write speeds were also close to the SATA speeds.

Jmicron controller with MLC SSD issue with stuttering is resolved in revision B of the chip. Also, I believe Samsung use their own controllers for their first-gen 90/70 MLC. 90/70 would be a nice upgrade.. would be interesting to see numbers of a X18-M via the SATA-PATA converter

 

I have the mtron in the 2710p, which is the tablet version of the 2510p. The performance difference is more than amazing to that slow original hdd. get the mtron, take the old disk out and in a tiny usb-enclosure (there exists one that is sexy and tiny) and use it for big storage. works great.

though i get now a 2730p + 128gb s-ata ssd.. but it DID work great

 

Well, I hope so, I don't trust them yet The only SSD manufacturer that I haven't heard anything negative of yet is MTRON, so until others have proven that they can do as well or better, I'll stick with MTRON.
And it would of course be interesting to see these X18-M numbers, but you won't get them from me
The only thing I'll measure will be a hdparm -tT from linux, booted from an USB stick, of the MTRON 2.5" ssd. Why? Because a) I don't want to attach a 3.5" HDD to the notebook's ZIF port as I am afraid it could harm the notebook's electronics (draining too much power, needing 12V etc) and b) For a HD Tune bench, I'd have to format the MTRON SSD and install XP on it because it will be the only bootable medium in my notebook I could boot XP from. And that SSD is the system disk of my main computer.

In that case though, I would also do the hdparm bench with the SSD attached to the PCMCIA card so we can kinda compare the results.

 

I already have the SystemRescueCD on my usb stick and I'd use that for hdparm. I can't be arsed to go through the whole TinyXP or formatting process. Of couse, I could make partimages etc, it's just that.. you know.. this is too much for me as I'll use an mtron ZIF SSD later anyway. I've already spent 50 EUR, that's 63US$, on equipment I have no use for.

I think you misunderstood. I bought the adapter that I posted a picture of, the direct zif-to-sata adapter. That one doesn't have an additional molex connector but a normal sata connector. So I can't put some extra power source there.

 

For the record: the PCMCIA SATA adapter I bought is this one:


I bought it on ebay.de from a taiwanese seller named "dashop168". As can be seen a few posts earlier, I achieved 70MB/s with a 100MB/s MTRON Mobi 16GB 2.5" SSD.

 

Does anyone think this Transcend drive could be taken apart and used as the main hard drive?

Newegg sells it for $309 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208464

http://www.transcendusa.com/Products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=227&SpNo=-100&LangNo=0

 

Here's the PLL chip. For the southbridge, I'd have to open the whole chassis, I wouldn't wanna do that unless absolutely necessary.

So SetFSB does not (yet) support that chip

 

Has anybody actually tried attaching a sata drive in the optical drive caddy yet? Does it need a pata to sata converter as well? The caddy I have bought is a sata caddy (not delivered yet) and it would seem like the way to go as I have no real use for the optical drive.

Hope it works!

 

UPDATE (10-8-10): can flash 2510P-F0F-dualIDA to gain dual_IDA's extra multiplier for a free extra 10-12.5% CPU performance. More gains can be had if combined with setfsb's PLL overclocking.

Consider to the 200Mhz_bclk mod that improves X3100+RAM performance

Suggest use the 2510P Performance Toolkit to easily setup a AC/overclocked and DC/undervolted setup, maintaining settings when doing a resume from standby/hibernate.

INFO: U7600 OC Win7/64 WEI and wprime32 scores

CPU speed FSB Mhz multiplier^1	1.2 133 x9	1.2 200 x6-BC	1.33 133 x10-DI	1.44 160 x9	1.44 240 x6-BC	1.55 194 x8	1.6 160 x10-DI	1.6^3 178 x9	1.6 178 x9-SI	1.66 [unstable] 185 x9-SI
Win7 WEI Processor Memory Graphics^2 Gaming Graph Primary HDD	pic 3.9 4.2 2.8 3.0 5.9*2	pic 3.9 4.6 3.2 3.1 5.9*2	pic 4.1 4.2 2.6 3.0 4.4*1	pic 4.3 4.5 3.1 3.1 5.9*2	pic 4.3 4.9 3.5 3.2 5.9*2	pic 4.4 4.7 3.4 3.2 5.9*2	pic 4.6 4.6 3.1 3.1 6.4*3	pic 4.6 4.6 3.3 3.2 6.4*3	pic 4.8 4.8 3.3 3.2 6.4*3	pic 4.8 4.8 3.4/6.7*4 3.2/6.7*4 5.9*2
wprime 2.00	72.68​		65.68​	60.40​		56.32	54.41​	53.62​		51.98​

Yellow - recommended overclock. Can run 160@x9 (1.44Ghz) on DC at lowest VID. So no need to downclock for optimum battery life.
Magenta - FSB greater than 178Mhz required CAS=5 written to RAM. System unstable at > 195Mhz FSB.
* Modifications: 1=(none)1.8" 80GB ZIF HDD [MK8025GAL], a single-platter HP replacement of the original supplied MK8009GAL. The dual-platter MK8009GAL got only a 3.9 WEI!! 2=2.5" 500GB 5400rpm sata HDD, 3=128GB K3VLAR SSD, 4=HD4670 gpu

^1 - Requires Throttlestop. DI=dualIDA overclock gives extra multiplier. SI=singleIDA overclocks one core with an extra multiplier. BC=200Mhz_bclk modded
^2 - May need Modded X3100 driver for Win7/32. It increases desktop graphics score by ~10%/0.2 points, described here
^3 - losdrivare duplicated these results with the PATA 160GB HM160HC obtaining a 5.5 disk score here

Tested unit: u7600-1.2Ghz 2GB 80GB/4200rpm 2510P. Compare SL9400 2530P, SU9400 R600 WEI here. [email protected] is faster than a SU7300-1.3 Acer 1810T and SU9400-1.4 Lenovo X301 in all areas except 3D graphics, where dual-channel X4500 is faster. If overclocking, no need to pay a premium in s/h market for the x10 multiplier enabled u7700 cpu since it's likely to have the same ~1.66Ghz overclock stability wall as the u7600. The dualIDA modded bios means a U7500-1.06 can likely get a x9 multiplier overclock.

INFO: Overclocking

WARNING: FSB Overclocking means running components faster with an increase in operating temperature. Observe decent cooling precautions. I take no responsibility for any damage. User beware.

setfsb now support 2510P overclocking

Abo has added the 2510P's ICS 9LPRS355BGLF PLL to his setfsb software. Below is a screenshot with a 5% overclock of the FSB and PCI-E clocks on a 1.2Ghz u7600 2510P. Note the bug where the setfsb command has no effect in increasing the FSB after the 2510P has been in a prolonged standby or hibernate.

1: 2510P with 5% FSB and pci-e overclock 2: Error notification when PLL is in a frozen state after a prolonged hibernate or standby. A quick standby followed by resume will unfreeze the PLL and allow the FSB/pci-e clocks to be set *without* the need for a shutdown. FIX: Frozen PLL after standby/resume If you bridge the 2510P debug port pin1+pin2 by bending them ontop of each other, or soldering them together then it will TME-unlock the PLL so there will no longer be issues with setfsb/setPLL overclocking after a resume-from-standby/hibernate. The debug port has 24pins and is located in the 1.8" drive bay. There are numbers against the pins so you know what is where.

setfsb opens up a lot more performance tweak options. The u7600 is overclocked from 1.2Ghz to 1.4Ghz here. 1.5Ghz is a very easy overclock with the standard voltages and RAM normal 266Mhz memory timings as set during bootup. Setting CAS=5 ram timings provides an extra level stability. The HP supplied RAM is DDR2-667 so it does support 333Mhz.

Overclocking with Linux

See INFO: Overclocking the 2510P in Linux for detailed instructions. Another way is to boot to WinXP/Win7 running setfsb to overclock then upon rebooted (not shutdown) into Linux, the overclocked PLL settings remain. 'dmesg' shows per cpu [email protected]=2394, [email protected]=3001 (overclocked). Gnome's CPU Frequency monitor incorrectly shows the speed at 1.2Ghz.

CPU temperature

If overclocking, consider observing CPU temps to ensure operation stays as far as possible below Tjmax of 100C using tools like Everest or rmclock. Better removal of heat can be achieved by application of some decent Artic Silver thermal paste between the CPU/northbridge and the heatsink or clearning/blowing out any dust or gunk accumulation blocking the little fan under the system. Also the fan/airway is easy to block with your knee if sitting on your lap since it's in the back right corner.

Memset, spdtool and thaipoon burner - alter RAM timings

Memset cannot alter the primary timing, CAS latency, but Thaiphoon burner or spdtool can by writing timing data to the RAM's eeprom. If overclocking in 1.55-1.65 Ghz range, then consider modding RAM eeprom to store CAS latency=5 in the 266Mhz timing table. This is the latency used by RAM operating at 333Mhz. Detailed instructions for power users are here. NOTE: Observe tools' warnings to prevent RAM damage.

Hardware Overclocking (Advanced)

The 9LPRS355.pdf datasheet shows that a logic of 1 on the PLL FSLB pin would change the u7xxx CPU FSB to 166Mhz.

FSLC FSLB FSLA CPUFREQ
.....0...... 0......1.....133.33 <---- default (u7xxx CPU)
.....0...... 1......1.....166.66 <-----overclock (u7xxx CPU)
.....0...... 1......0.....200.00 <-----default (L7xxx CPU)
.....0...... 0......0.....266.66 <-----b-i-g overclock (L7xxx CPU)



Easiest to do by lifting the resistor attached to pin 57 and then running a small patch wire to a 3.3V logic point (3.3V) patch, eg: FSLa pin 10, to have hardware overclock to 166Mhz FSB. A successful implementation of this done by tweakertje here. http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...verclocking-methods-examples.html#post4998927 thread has more hardware overclocking info.

 

Hi,

I tried the caddy from notebook elite from ebay.
I tried it on a HP NC2400 which is the same as the 2510p but one generation older with diferent chipsets.

I installed a seagate momentus 3 - 80GB 2.5" and it didn´t recognized the HD.
I tried installing XP with no sucess and the parttion manager i usually use didn´t recognize the HD also...

So for NC2400 users it´s useless!!

PLEASE, if you hve any sucess with the caddy on the 2510p please let us know something, ok?!?

At least i´m interested because i would sell my NC2400 to buy a 2510p if i could intall a 2.5" HD on it...

 

Theory: enabling and connecting to the ICH8M native SATA port

Update 3-26-2012: See INFO: 2510P SATA retrofit for electrical wiring details.

Step 1: Enabling the native SATA controller using baredit

i. By using a 6710b bios

- flash the 6710b bios to the system. This bios enabled the sata controller AND likely provides bootup to the sata drive. For whatever reason, the 6710p bios does not boot the 2510P's master OR slave PATA drives (1.8", 2.5" in optical bay OR optical drive). The likely reason the optical drive doesn't work is because it is expecting it to be master, rather than the slave setup on the 2510P.

The way to flash the 6710b bios to the 2510P is by copying the 6710p bios.rom file as 68MSP.bin on a floppy drive, holding WIN+B on bootup to do an emergency flash recover. The bios update will prompt to do two passes to complete it. DO NOT DO TWO PASSES(!!). If you do, then likely can't reverse the process back to the original 2510P bios. Reverse by copying the 2510P bios.rom to floppy as 68DDU.bin and repeating.

The same procedure may be possible without using the floppy disk by using the a modified rompaq binary here.

ii. Manually by altering PCI configuration registers

Quick step-by-step visual instructions are shown below right. Can skip reading how/why this was done and go Step 2. Interested readers can see ICH8-M datasheet extract in italics below tells us:

The SATA1 controller is enabled/disabled via the "FD-Function Disable Register". When a function is disabled, software must not attempt to re-enable it. A disabled function can only be re-enabled by a platform reset.

FD—Function Disable Register Offset Address: 3418–341Bh Attribute: R/W, RO Default Value: See bit description Size: 32-bit BIT 2: Serial ATA Disable 1 (SAD1) — R/W. Default is 0. 0 = The SATA controller #1 (D31:F2) is enabled. 1 = The SATA controller #1 (D31:F2) is disabled. This block is mapped into memory space, using register RCBA of the PCI-to-LPC bridge:
	</tbody

LPC Interface PCI Register Address Map (LPC I/F—D31:F0)
Offset / Mnemonic / Register Name / Default / Type
F0h–F3h / RCBA /Root Complex Base Address / 00000000h / R/W

Accesses in this space must be limited to 32-(DW) bit quantities. Burst accesses are not allowed.

Using BarEDIT->Configuration Space set to Bus.0 Dev 31 Fct 0, we find the Base Address Register at 0F0 contains the string "FED90001". This tells us what the memory space is to for the FD-Function Disable Register used to enable/disable the SATA controller.

So we add 3418 to FED90001 and find the address FED93418. Bit 2 at this address has a 1 by default (disable SATA controller). Changing it to 0 then enables the SATA controller and XP will now have a new device 2828h Non-AHCI mode SATA controller appear that will automatically load drivers and appear as in the screenshot above.

To do this prior to OS boot, would require either a DOS based bootdisk with peritool to do the memory write 'pt MEM write 4 0xFED93418 0x33c0001', or using the grub2 bootloader add an entry against the OS item:

write_dword 0xFED93418 0x33c0001

Step 2: Physically connecting to a SATA port - where is the port?

Referring to the 2510P schematic, the sata0 controller would need to be physically wired to a sata device to work. Can see exactly how the ICH8M sata lines need to be configured by referring to the 6710b schematic and 6910b schematic, both systems delivered from the factory with a primary sata drive bay.

To do this would require connecting the PLL to the SATACLK lines on ICH8M, run 4 sata0 RX/TX lines, 3.3V and GND to your drive or 4mm runcore SATA SSD (designed for eee PCs..) pinout as per SATA pins of asus proprietory flash_con. It could sit somewhere in the chassis where there is room (eg: spare pci-e slot, pc-card slot), so the 1.8" PATA drive may be able to stay where it is That would be sensational! Or of course, could substitute the 1.8" PATA drive with a 1.8" SATA SSD like Intel X18-M or a good value ebay 1.8" Samsung SATA SSD. Right: 4 SATA I/O lines plus 3.3V and GND attached to a Samsung SSD, a working setup, as found in the macbook air forum.

 

nando4, can you please benchmark the trnasfer rates from the hard drive in the optical bay? My 8710w only yields 15MB/s transfer rates from the same interface.

 

I purchased the newmodeus standard optical bay hard drive caddy (PATA-SATA) as can be seen here http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_27&products_id=179. I installed a 7k200 SATA drive in it.

The 8710w does not have a MultiBayII connector (the optical drive is fixed). It requires the JAE50 connector.

You're saying the possible bottleneck could be the PATA-SATA bridge and that a PATA-PATA version of the caddy could work better? I'm curious to know what HP's standard MultiBayII hard disk transfer rates are because the bottleneck may also be due to the own interface on the motherboard.

 

The 8710w uses the ICH8-M chipset.
The SATA-to-PATA bridge chip on the caddy doesn't seem to have a brand (it's all blacked out).

 

INFO: Performance of SATA SSD in a 2nd drive caddy [Lenovo Ultrabay PATA]

Below is CrystalDIskMark benchmarks comparing performance of a SATA Mtron SLC 3500 100/100 SSD using a SATA-to-PATA bridge adapter versus a native SATA port on a Thinkpad T60 using a ICH7M ATA100/UDMA5 optical drive interface. Original posting is here. CrystalDiskMark: SATA MTRON 3500 SLC 100/100 ..........Read..MB/s...................Write..MB/s Seq.....84.28:94.98 (88.7%)......55.92:86.95 (64.3%) 512k....77.42:94.68 (81.8%)......21.22:22.49 (94.4%) 4k.......18.73:19.78 (94.7%)........1.28:2.81...(45.6%) Left of colon: SATA-to-PATA ultrabay optical bay caddy Right of colon: native SATA interface The bridge chip does degrade read performance by 12%. That would be OK by me. I am curiously awaiting benchmarks of the equivalent HP 2510P SATA 2nd drive caddy and SATA HDD/SSD. Anyone??

 

All,

I've received today the notebookelite sata caddy and can confirm it's not working in the 2510p ...
I've made the test with two different hard drives with same results (Toshiba and Samsung).
The second harddrive is neither detected by BIOS or Windows
Sometimes for the Toshiba, I've got a fixed red LED on the caddy waiting long seconds for BIOS to boot, ending with a "Disk 0 startup error" anyway.
Seems either the SATA bridge has some issues or that BIOS is locked to detect only optical drive ?
Anyway, I've already switched my internal 1.8" harddisk to a 5400 rpm Samsung HS122JC and fired up a 4GB RAM module into my 2510p
This combination gives me quite satisfactory results under Vista