*HP EliteBook 8740w Owners Lounge - PART 1*

Dunno y I have to repeat the obvious:
Without unlocked BIOS you cannot use the full potential of the extreme CPU's (OC'ing by raising the multipliers), and the only option left is to raise the FSB (playing with PLL's) through software. In that case, by the time 840's current consumption reaches 55-60W it will outperform your extreme processors (including the 940XM) and probabaly still run cooler.
The 940XM will only be recognized as a 920XM till the new BIOS is issued with native support.
Back to reality,
840QM is so close to 920XM @ stock performance that you will most likely never see any difference. Unless of course, heavy video encoding will take place and every minute is @ stake.
But, yeah go ahead, if you can get it for free - grab one without a question.

 

Hey guys, bad news. This is a snippet from an e-mail I just received from my "Client Advocate" at HP:


"Unfortunately there is worldwide shortage on the dream color display and this is affecting all the orders, segments and customers at HP.

According to the supplier, factory and purchasing team we are not expecting to have any releases until mid July."

Looks like more delays.

 

For it to be called a shortage they would have to be some in existence in the first place. GIMPS!

 

Well, you must be wrong. Right now, configuring an 8470w on the HP website with DC2 and a backlit keyboard gives an estimated ship date of 7/9/10³.

_______________________

³ Estimated Ship Dates are based on any known extended lead times.

 

Haha...you're too optimistic
I got the same message regarding the shortages and my order was placed on the 25th.
I expect to finally get the laptop around mid August.

 

lol, no argument, but the problem with the T9900 vs. X9100 argument is that the T9900 was a product of optimization (it was basically a locked X9100 that ran @ 35w vs. 44w) and both represented the EOL for Core 2 Duo's and with good reason. Unless we see some data with a decent sample size of average OC of T9900 vs. X9100 we don't know, but I would posit that the X9100, with adequate cooling, had the overall better OCs. The clark's are hot and heavy but they still have more room for potential OC'ing and the extra 10w is a good thing (provided there is a competent cooling system provided).

You can compare i5s and i7s but it isn't valid with regards to OC potential since the arrandales use a smaller fab and will have more room for OC'ing. I'm not saying a i5 ripping along at 4ghz isn't going to outmuscle a 920xm with a dual threaded application lol. Then again, it always comes down to applications and requirements. In addition, you don't know where you're going to bottom out stable OC wise. The focus is on VID under load and how much the CPU is pulling and proper cooling (which it looks like the 8740W isn't going above and beyond the call of duty), not surfing or other very light tasks where even a low end Core 2 chip would more than suffice.

Either way, the 820/720 and 920 routinely hit 65w under load. Playing WoW (don't judge me ), in heavy populated areas which are CPU intensive, 720, 820 and 920 all spiked to 65w tested in my M15x, Studio XPS, MSI 1727 and Studio 17.

If you're looking for cool running, better consumption, longer battery life ALL the current (720, 740, 820, 840, 920, 940) quads are a bad decision and you should be looking at the dual cores..

Putting a Quad Core in a 15-16" chassis (w510 and similar ilk) rarely turns out well. I remember my M4400 w/ QX9300 running very toasty and throttling but my M6400 runs very crisp with the same QX9300 chip. Exceptions being, as noted, the M15x and some what the Sager 8690, but we're talking 17" chassis with extra room and sometimes thicker/beefier cooling. Even my MSI 1747 17" single fan handled the 920XM just fine as is under stress testing (it was when run in conjunction with the GPU furmark'n that the single fan design couldn't keep up).

Take a look: http://forum.notebookreview.com/msi...umption-heat-generation-benchmarks-oh-my.html

The Studio 17 in my sig has a 920xm in it, running prime95 max heat generation with a 150w PSU and the CPU stays in the upper 80's with no throttling, but it is a very big and roomy 17" laptop that only has to support a ~35w GPU subsystem. I've optimized the snot out of it, though both hardware and software wise. It can't possibly be more fine tuned.

If 8740w owners are reporting 80+ with their quad cores under not even a serious meaningful load. Blame HP, not the chip.

I don't need it to stay ice cold. I need it to stay within operational range while under sustained load. Then again, it comes down to the task at hand.

OCCT requires you to edit the config file to set max temps higher. I used OCCT to bottom out my D900F in the mid 90's with an extreme 965 d0.

But back to 840QM vs. 920XM. There's really no argument price wise, heh. If you're on a budget, 840QM. If money is no object, 920XM or 940XM all the way but like you said if HP's provided cooling system is, um, lacking, then an extreme or even a quad core might be a bad choice (without modifications). Like I said, all the quads are power sucking, hot and heavy chips that when under meaningful load can and will hit 65w. The only argument (and rightfully so), is the cost factor, but you are guaranteed stability at the given bin speed even if small.

I'm personally looking at a 8740w w/ 620M and DC2 to replace my M6400 (QX9300 w/ RGBLED) and I'll requisition it probably with that config for work, but I'm waiting till some reviews come in and your initial findings. My systems in my (ever changing) sig are my home/play machines.

I've enjoyed your posts and enthusiasm though. You'll have your 8740w probably long before I and many others.

 

And of course it will be delivered to your front door on a rainbow colored flying pony...

My date was given as 04/27 or something like that the first time they released the DC2 and were phishing for orders to gauge interest.... Heck, if I can incur a few more delays and get 10% off each time, it won't be long 'till I get it for the price is a netbook.

 

I have a review for ya; this just in. HP bit off more than it can chew with this 8740w offering...

 

I seriously thought he was joking.

 

I know he was. I just couldn't pass up an excellent opportunity to use such a comical line and put in some more digs @ HP's expense. <hehehehe> I'm quickly going from indifferent to pretty p/o'ed with the latest delay.

 

I hope this delay won't affect non-DC2 8740w or 8540w.

 

Yah, I must say I feel the same way...and how on earth can HP put DC2's back up on their website only to discover two weeks later than they actually don't have any to deliver??

I was ok with some delay but this is past ridiculous (or rediculous, as it's more commonly called in that great virtual ball of wax known as the internet).

 

edit: better coverage: http://www.ag-ip-news.com/GetArticle.asp?Art_ID=8208
I just spent a lot of time scanning this thread for this post above. I thought it worth bumping it to ponder HP's ablity to deliver on a promised IPS display ...
... is HP lying to us? or is LG lying to HP?

It does seem like LG would have trouble delivering IPS displays to HP if there were an injunction put on them by AUO

[as far as I know, the DC2 was going to be an LG display as as far as I read they're the only one to offer it in this form-factor/size]
[not saying this delay is cause of or proof of an injunction, just that maybe it is].

 

I wanted to give regular updates on the crashing issue as it gets resolved, but things are going very slow. I called "the guy" (henceforth referred to as J...the tech at HP trying to solve this problem) asking for an update.

There is an update for Nvidia drivers coming soonish, but that does me no good. I reminded him I have ATI at which point he audibly sighed and commented how ATI pushes all the driver updates onto HP. He looked and saw there was an updated driver dated April 15, file name sp47969. I later logged onto HP's website to find it, but they still have the original driver with a different file name. I followed up with an email asking for that driver but have not received it yet.

I had previousy told him about Mass Effect crashing my new system quite consistently in full-screen mode. He put in a requisition to buy the game for $5 at a big-box store but is still waiting for approval.

I had also called him to let him know I had tried re-installing the other 2 sticks of RAM and got tons of crashes. He said he already requested 2 sticks of RAM and was also waiting for those. (note that HP had a replacement laptop at my door within 24 hours, but they can't find 2 sticks of RAM for their tech to play with... )

So, at this point I'm getting the impression that HP isn't giving J any kind of urgent priority to fix this problem, which is pretty frustrating. I sent him email with several questions and even offered to let an on-site tech come mess with my computer (specifically to install those RAM sticks again to observe the crashes). Waiting to hear back on that too.

 

I measured the sound levels of the 8740w. I understand that it might be difficult to put this into context if you aren't very familiar with sound. But here it is anyway.

I measured the sound levels at my normal head location with the laptop set open on top of my desk in its normal use position. All levels are Equivalent Sound Level A-weighted (LAeq). Results are reported in overall level (includes all sound energy across all frequencies into a single number) and 1/3 octave band levels (breaks frequencies up into bins that are 1/3 of an octave wide).

I measured the following conditions:

Heavy - running 3DMark06 (CPU test), this is as loud as it gets unless it is about to crash...so it's not the highest fan setting, but the highest you will encounter in normal use. It is also the fan speed which runs most often while playing Mass Effect.

Medium - running 3DMark06 (graphics test), this is the medium load condition, it also kicks in rarely under light loads if the CPU temps creep up high enough, but a short run cools it back down very fast.

Light - running Firefox and some other stuff, but not doing anything, the fan is running, but you can't hear it unless you get your ear very close to the keyboard.

Background - computer turned off





Results:
The Background level was actually under the noise floor of the mic I used with the sound level meter at most high and low frequencies. If you compare the Background levels to Light levels, you will see that the Background measurement included some transient sound (around 1 kHz) which wasn't in the Light measurement. I trust that the spike around 800 Hz in the Light measurement is actually the fan, but it is unclear. But basically you can see that under Light loads, you will not hear much unless you have a very quiet space. Most open office cubicles should have levels well above these.

As the load increase, so of course does the level. You may also note that the spike in each curve moves to the right due to the higher fan speed making higher pitched sounds.

Under the Heavy condition, the overall level reaches nearly 42 dB. That is quite good in my opinion, but certainly no one would consider it "nearly silent". The highly tonal character of the sound will make it even more noticeable as people are more sensitive to sounds that have a strong pitch associated with them.

Overall I am very pleased with the sound levels of this powerful laptop. As I have mentioned several times though, my previous laptop was very loud, so I come at this system with a different perspective than previous Elitebook owners.

 

knight427 - you're the man!

Thanks a lot for sharing the results of the test. It's telling a lot. I wish that that all manufacturers provide such measurements up front to their perspective customers.

I suppose that your 8740w has a common HD (7200, not SSD) and it is a major source of the sound contributing at Light load. Right?

Have you tried to measure sound level with BIOS option " Enable/disable fan always on while connected to an AC outlet (enabled by default)." turned off? I guess it will put it somewhere between Light and Background levels. Or may be it will be close to Light, I guess?

What is the ambient temperature when you made those measurements?

Does keeping the back of 8740w lifted (one or two inches) above the desk surface make it more silent (I suppose the fan will not go from Light to Medium time to time, as you've mentioned, and still be on Light all the time)? I know form my experience - I used to lift the back end of my laptop on the desk all the time and it helps to keep it silent. So I guess it's the same with 8740w too

 

May be a dumb question - Does the 8740W's QM57 board support esata port multiplier? Hope it does. before i pull the trigger to buy a esata multiple HDD bay.

 

I'd be curious to know if it also officially supports hotswap. I've heard reports that it does not.

 

There's been a lot of discussion of the quality of the DC2 display and how it will look when it arrives. I'm sure it will be quite good for photo and video editing as that's what it was designed for but there was some mention of the input lag.

I'm curious as I would like to also utilize my laptop for gaming, has anyone gamed on the old DC1 display or the HP desktop monitor comparible to the DC2?

Do you notice the input lag? What sort of things/How do you notice it? How bad is it? Does it really cause adverse issues like getting the shotgun blast to the face or being unable to dodge that sniper bullet?

Thanks

 

@ Electrosoft,
I wish good luck to all who intend to put 920/940XM's in their Elitebooks. If HP doesn't offer it as an option - you should be careful.
As for your 620M, - be aware that with dual-core processors HP will only provide a single-pipe heatsink (2 pipes for quads). You will need to get a dual-pipe HS separately. Also, you only get 2 RAM slots in systems with dual-cores vs 4 slots in quad-core ones.
So there's something to think about.

 

I've been toying with the idea of ordering a quad core and switching out the processor for a dual core i7/i5 but I suspect I'll end up ordering the i7 720 and sticking with it. Anyone notice that on the notebookcheck processor review, the 840 appears to be slightly more power efficient than the other quads?

 

Don't even think of switching the processors. If it came with a quad, it won't even work wit a dual-core. The chipset has to be of a different type (with 2 RAM slots) to allow it.

Yes, that's y I like it so much. Same max turbo boost of 3.2ghz as with a 920XM and only a 0.13ghz slower on all 4cores, but far more power efficient!

 

I don't kid... This just in [today]:

[grrr]

 

Yeah, I got a similar message, but am not worried anymore. If it takes another 2-3 months, they will upgrade more parts for free.

 

Very good . With a piece of luck, you'll be able to get the laptop for free!! :laugh:

Well, Aikimox, I don't want argue with you, but HP DOES offer the 920XM as an option, at least in my country. My rep passed the query on to the wholesaler and this person CONFIRMED this availability by listing the 2 top processors from the service manual (or from the Quick Specs, it doesn't matter):

I think HP doesn't offer the 920XM due to availalibility reasons, not for heating issues. If the wholesaler offers the 920XM to my rep, I'm pretty sure it's totally safe. Anyway, I'm more interested in the 840QM as I said. And think a moment, if this CPU is in the Quick Specs since Version 4 or 5 (currently Version 7, published on June, 25) of the document, why does HP include this CPU for 1 month (at least) in his documents?

 

No one knows how much input lag the dc2 will have, but most likely between 16 and 48 ms. The dc1 does not lag in theory because it is a tn panel and many, maybe even most, tn panels do not lag. All ips panels have at least 16ms of lag, and the dc2 is ips. But unless you're extremely good at fighting games or shooters, you wont notice the lag. You could probably have 50ms and not notice it too much in other types of game. The skill and familiarity with a game to notice less than 5 frames of lag is ridiculously high.

 

Well that's good news then hopefully. I was a little nervous about reading that because I definitely notice lower FPS and jittering in games if the graphics card isn't quite capable enough.

Is anyone using the Seagate Momentous XT yet?

 

I know they offer that option in some countries (at least when ordering through a rep) but...

1) The system is available for 3 months already and the (extreme CPU) option never appeared on the HP USA website. Do you really believe there's such a huge shortage of these processors when Dell, Lenovo and many others have those in stock from the day 1?
And at the same time HP would take orders for DC2 knowing that it will only appear in a few months? Something is fishy here.
Another question, do you have that option listed on the HP website in your country?



2)Someone on this forum (Xsrx?) has already tried replacing his processor with a 920XM and reported stability and heat issues. He's back to the non-extreme CPU, AFAIK.


My guess - HP is unlikely to offer the extreme CPU's till Sandy Bridge. They might let some resellers change the components and shove 920Xm's there, but that would be it. And if they do not offer that option officially ( service manuals don't count, you have a Quadro 5900M there as well but that card can't be even pre-ordered) - there also will be a lack of BIOS support (Wrong clocks reports, wrong temp tables,etc ).

 

No, but it's listed in, at least, another EIGHT countries:
Hong Kong
Vietnam
Singapore
India
Thailand
South Korea
China
Taiwan

It's odd that all of these countries are in Asia Pacific, where it's supposed the availability of computer chips and related products is better than in another countries. And those pages aren't service manuals. Do you think these 8 countries have a typo in the 8740w specifications? I don't think so...

 

hi folks!

i am new here and i am curious of buying the new hp 8740w laptop, but i need to know something about the GPU on this machine.
mostly i need a laptop for work with Adobe CS5 programs, primarly for web design, and need to know is the new Ati FirePro graphic card suitable for the work with CS5?
If anyone could answer me i would appreciate

Greetings from Croatia!

 

No I don't think it's a typo. Maybe you can order one with 920XM and be the guinea pig?

 

Can someone PM me the contact detail for the 28% discount?

Thanks

 

I read that CS5 takes advantage of CUDA. Your'e better off with nvidia quadro if that's true.

 

thanks f4ding!

i also read something about nvidia graphic card with cuda being suitable for CS5 but i also read that Ati FirePro is faster thank Nvidia graphic card, is that true?

Will CS5 work with Ati card also?

 

Specifically premiere cs5 uses cuda.
For web design, all you need is an i5, 4gb RAM, and a good monitor that accurately displays colors. Dreamweaver is not gpu accelerated. I don't think fireworks is either. I'm pretty sure flash isn't too. And you wont need the gpu acceleration in photoshop.

The best investment for web development is an ssd and ram, for keeping all your Adobe apps open at once and running quickly. Gpu wont matter.

 

No doubt CS5 will work with Ati card. Whether one is faster over another, depends on the program that you use. Most professional programs are faster on the nvidia because of better drivers. I'm not sure which one is faster on CS5 though.

 

We don't have any reviews of the M7820 so it's hard to say.
But I'm optimistic, AMD is about to offer better drivers for their FirePro's. Will see...

 

thank you Koshim!
few days ago i didn´t know about that information of having more rams to keep all my apps open at once. (i am not such an expert in computers )
then, what hp should i buy so it could have more than 4 rams allready inside? what do you people recomend me to buy?
and, then i could go for an i5 4 GB RAM, ati GPU, wsga+? + i will buy one external monitor.

thanks eveybody

 

720QM, FX3800M, 4GB

3DMark06: 12472
SM 2.0: 5367
SM 3.0: 5750
CPU: 3157
Resolution 1280x1024

The only difference between the two systems above is the GPU.
The FX3800M maintains a slight advantage over the M7820. Even though the ATI card uses newer architecture, 40nm chip, and GDDR5 vRAM.

He did get a higher score of 13063 later on.
But that was after the CPU upgrade.

 

Yall should use vantage for benchmarking. 3dmark06 is 5 years old and doesn't even test dx10, and the ati card can run dx11.

 

Ooo cut the bs on ati vs nvidia. There's a lot of threads on that already. The fact is benchmarks will show those cards to be close to each other. What really matters is how the driver for each card is optimized for particular apps. As of right now, nvidia's reputation is higher than ati on that front (pro apps).

And you can ignore it if you want, the fact is CUDA is helping the nvidia cards right now. Until proven otherwise, ati's card has no such GPGPU advantage yet. And it's true that nvidia's cards use a bit more power. and is an old architecture. Nevertheless, performance and features, it'll still benefit more people vs using ati's solution. Spreading misleading info because you like one company over another is really a lot of bs.

 

Downloading now. I'm happy to run whatever, I chose 3Dmark06 b/c it is what NBR uses when they review notebooks.

How would spending $644 for a 0.8% increase in gaming performance benefit me?

 

It is not gonna be a 0.8%. M7820 is a clear winner over a FX3800M in games as well as synthetic tests. Run Vanatge for example. Even in the 3Dmark06 run posted by Rampage there's no advantage in GPU scores, in fact his CPU score is affecting the total. And BTW, 100pts is a complete BS. Any and every system will fluctuate 100-300pts in that test (depending on services and processes running, -> CPU and memory utilization, etc).
To see the true comparison, you should compare the gaming FPS (especially the minimum dips).

 

Hey knight, I think you're getting the DC2 and GPU upgrade prices mixed up. LOL

Well, at least you're honest about what the main purpose of the laptop is. :laugh:
I couldn't agree more in terms of GPU selection.
However, in my case GPU selection had absolutely no impact on the final price.

 

Ahhhh, I knew it was only a matter of time before you jumped on the defense. lol

Hey man, all I did was use the same test and compare spec by spec to make the comparison as fair as possible.
And still you jump out like a bat out of hell when the results turn out fairly even.

You must have been expecting ATI to win by a land slide.
Sorry.

 

Just wanted to clarify for those new to testing.
For GPU tests use Vantage and gaming benchmarks.
I bet, if you run Vantage now the GPU score will be around 6.5k vs 7.7-8k of M7820 That's a "by a land slide" win
The only real advantage of the Quadro card will be in CUDA.
When I get my system, let's do the testing in synthetics and games (I'm even willing to have a less powerful CPU - my 840QM vs your 920XM [get it already! ])
Hows abouts thatss ?

 

You gamers crack me up. LOL ROFL :laugh: :laugh:

So sad.

 

There's no point of having a powerful notebook if you don't play games

No it's you who crack me up, showing a 06 run for GPU comparison. That's in the same level of cracking up with the astrologist telling an astrophycisist that the increased sun activity will result in cold winters in Europe next year.

No offense, but why did buy this notebook if you don't game?
Do you really need it for CAD and DCC? What use could you possibly find for a 100W professional card? If you are not too mobile - you could have a 2x more powerful workstation with a real IPS screen.
If you are very mobile - why go for a 5kg beast? You could have a light 15" system with a FX880M that would easily fit your CUDA needs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 920XM??? For what possible use? OC'ing is locked in BIOS by default in all business systems. Real CPU demanding tasks that would put an i7-720QM on it's knees, will also put the extreme CPU on the same level of misery (for those you will need a Xeon or 2, or even a GRID).
It's all for

 

*sigh*
Aikimox, stop embarrassing yourself buddy.

 

You haven't shared with us your super-secret deal, but my discount was 28%. I did the math, and that was what the "upgrade" to FX3800M would have cost me.

The main purpose of the laptop is to conduct my business on, which occasionally requires CPU power for room acoustic simulation software, and light GPU demands from AutoCAD LT. Add in the desire for a quality built laptop with professional support, then gaming is a distant fourth, which is why I didn't buy a Sager or something. Basically I wanted powerful business class laptop, GPU was not a big concern on my business side, but being able to play some games after several years of not, is nice. Oh, and backlit keyboard, my feeble typing abilities combined with my normal business hours (work most nights) made this a pretty compelling feature for me.

I could have actually got FX3800M when they gave me this replacement laptop. The only thing tempting about the 3800 was it's resale value. But I wasn't going to resell it right away due to the time and hassle (I had already lost a bunch of time messing with my old unit...little did I know what was to come). Anyway, the resale wasn't going to help me out, so i went with the GPU that had better gaming potential and was more power efficient. I figured HP could save the 3800 for someone who would actually use CUDA.

@everyone:
PCmark Vantage score: 6785